I never want to hear that BD doesn’t move enough again

[queenanne_1536]

1 hour ago, karuna said:

Using the entire field creates strong environmental challenges for the performers.  Creating those challenges is an integral part of the medium.  

Demand absolutely matters.  Otherwise there's no basis for competition.  Doing hard things well is what the activity is about.  

Yes, demand absolutely matters - on the judges sheets. It matters less to me. I don't simply enjoy a program because it's more demanding. For me, demand for the shake of demand doesn't hold a candle to a program that may be less demanding but better designed.

Yes, using the entire field does create strong environmental challenges for the performers, but it's not the only thing that does. There are all sorts of different things that equate to demand. Madison has more field coverage than SCV. Is it more demanding than SCV's program. No, not by a long shot.

[seen-it-all]

1 minute ago, karuna said:

Being flawless but mediocre should fail on the sheets.  

Agreed.

[Hammer]

7 minutes ago, queenanne_1536 said:

Yes, demand absolutely matters - on the judges sheets. It matters less to me. I don't simply enjoy a program because it's more demanding. For me, demand for the shake of demand doesn't hold a candle to a program that may be less demanding but better designed.

Yes, using the entire field does create strong environmental challenges for the performers, but it's not the only thing that does. There are all sorts of different things that equate to demand. Madison has more field coverage than SCV. Is it more demanding than SCV's program. No, not by a long shot.

Demand is what makes marching band a lot different than a concert band. If I didn't enjoy the demands of a difficult drill, I'd rather they just pull out chairs, sit and play a concert for us. 

[Cappybara]

14 minutes ago, queenanne_1536 said:

Yes, demand absolutely matters - on the judges sheets. It matters less to me. I don't simply enjoy a program because it's more demanding. For me, demand for the shake of demand doesn't hold a candle to a program that may be less demanding but better designed.

Yes, using the entire field does create strong environmental challenges for the performers, but it's not the only thing that does. There are all sorts of different things that equate to demand. Madison has more field coverage than SCV. Is it more demanding than SCV's program. No, not by a long shot.

YES. Thank you.

[denverjohn]

2 hours ago, queenanne_1536 said:

I care about effect, design and entertainment above all else. Yes SCV has less field coverage than other corps, but that is not indicative of demand, content or effectiveness. I love the show. It’s so well designed. If a production is this well designed I don’t care how much field is utilized or how demanding a program is (although I think Vanguard’s show is exceptionally demanding). It’s all about design and effect. If you nail that then little else matters. The only two corps who nailed it this year are SCV and BD. Bluecoats nearly did  I may change my opinion on that in the future because their show has really grown on me over the course of the season  

But don’t you all see what’s really happening here? What the big story here is? Be prepared to face your future. Indoors. That’s where this activity is headed. Indoors. Say goodbye to football fields and hello to gymnasium floors. Vanguard proved a compact show could be designed, achieved, and received at the absolute highest levels. Buckle up, Scotty. This is only the beginning. 

$$$$$ + Technology + audience base  = Arena corps. TV technology & marketing altered Pro Football from a stationary high-cam play-by-play into the Howard Cosell initiated 3-ring circus that it is today and increased the audience base. The continued trend toward the indoor arena model will depend on revenue streams from Flo Marching and Big, Loud and Live. Facial expression, emotive acting, themes, etc. come across on the big screen close-up much better than in section 307 Row 12. (Disappearing Phantom, 2 lovers on a bench, The Wink). The pre-scripted Big, Loud, and Live production is a very, very, very well-designed program and experience. Lots of behind the scenes dramatic flair similar to how the Olympics are packaged these days.

[jwillis35]

Of the few posts I have read from this thread I feel like we are getting into a SCV vs BD argument and pulling out arguments for or against each group that I frankly consider to be "old wives tales" of DCI's past. Drum corps is judged differently today. The shows are different. Who cares who marches the most or has the most demand or covers the most field?  Really?  Some corps cover a lot of field, but have a crappy show.  Some plays with all kinds of demand, but can't clean it; and if they do clean there is the chance it doesn't make sense. Some corps march more, some stage more, some utilize more simultaneous demand, and on and on. No need to throw barbs at other corps because you judge these shows a little differently.

 

I personally think SCV has a phenomenal show that should win by a point over really good Blue Devils and Bluecoats challengers.  Both Blue corps could easily win the title on another year.  Top 3 shows are all championship designs and performance levels.  That is a treat for the fans.  

As for the OP not wanting to hear anyone complain about BD not marching enough, I would agree with that part of it.  I have always loved BD's athletic and energized shows because of their multiple levels of demand on the body and musically. I am especially referring to their 2008 to present run. But I don't judge each drum corps by the style they employ but by how effective it is and how well they execute. 

Find me a corps that marches more or plays more notes than The Cadets of 1993?  And that Cadets corps is one of my favorites; but I never felt every other corps had to try that style, or that such a style was necessarily the way to go moving forward.  What Star of Indiana did that year actually had more impact moving forward, and what BD did in 2008, 09, and 10 had big impact as well.  What Bluecoats did in 2016 also had a big impact on what we see today.  Things evolve, shift, change, so to sit here and belittle corps for not using enough field or too much field is the wrong way to look at these shows. Who plays the most notes may not be the best unless they can clean it and unless it also makes a lot of sense. 

SCV absolutely deserves this title for what they are doing as much as for how well they perform.  The same was true of BD last year and Bluecoats the year before.  Exciting times ahead for DCI Fans!

[ContraFart]

37 minutes ago, jwillis35 said:

Of the few posts I have read from this thread I feel like we are getting into a SCV vs BD argument and pulling out arguments for or against each group that I frankly consider to be "old wives tales" of DCI's past. Drum corps is judged differently today. The shows are different. Who cares who marches the most or has the most demand or covers the most field?  Really?  Some corps cover a lot of field, but have a crappy show.  Some plays with all kinds of demand, but can't clean it; and if they do clean there is the chance it doesn't make sense. Some corps march more, some stage more, some utilize more simultaneous demand, and on and on. No need to throw barbs at other corps because you judge these shows a little differently.

 

I personally think SCV has a phenomenal show that should win by a point over really good Blue Devils and Bluecoats challengers.  Both Blue corps could easily win the title on another year.  Top 3 shows are all championship designs and performance levels.  That is a treat for the fans.  

As for the OP not wanting to hear anyone complain about BD not marching enough, I would agree with that part of it.  I have always loved BD's athletic and energized shows because of their multiple levels of demand on the body and musically. I am especially referring to their 2008 to present run. But I don't judge each drum corps by the style they employ but by how effective it is and how well they execute. 

Find me a corps that marches more or plays more notes than The Cadets of 1993?  And that Cadets corps is one of my favorites; but I never felt every other corps had to try that style, or that such a style was necessarily the way to go moving forward.  What Star of Indiana did that year actually had more impact moving forward, and what BD did in 2008, 09, and 10 had big impact as well.  What Bluecoats did in 2016 also had a big impact on what we see today.  Things evolve, shift, change, so to sit here and belittle corps for not using enough field or too much field is the wrong way to look at these shows. Who plays the most notes may not be the best unless they can clean it and unless it also makes a lot of sense. 

SCV absolutely deserves this title for what they are doing as much as for how well they perform.  The same was true of BD last year and Bluecoats the year before.  Exciting times ahead for DCI Fans!

I disagree with your premise. I think the biggest complaint against BD is their lack of athleticism, especially compared with other corps in their tier. 

[queenanne_1536]

1 hour ago, jwillis35 said:

Of the few posts I have read from this thread I feel like we are getting into a SCV vs BD argument and pulling out arguments for or against each group that I frankly consider to be "old wives tales" of DCI's past. Drum corps is judged differently today. The shows are different. Who cares who marches the most or has the most demand or covers the most field?  Really?  Some corps cover a lot of field, but have a crappy show.  Some plays with all kinds of demand, but can't clean it; and if they do clean there is the chance it doesn't make sense. Some corps march more, some stage more, some utilize more simultaneous demand, and on and on. No need to throw barbs at other corps because you judge these shows a little differently.

I personally think SCV has a phenomenal show that should win by a point over really good Blue Devils and Bluecoats challengers.  Both Blue corps could easily win the title on another year.  Top 3 shows are all championship designs and performance levels.  That is a treat for the fans.  

As for the OP not wanting to hear anyone complain about BD not marching enough, I would agree with that part of it.  I have always loved BD's athletic and energized shows because of their multiple levels of demand on the body and musically. I am especially referring to their 2008 to present run. But I don't judge each drum corps by the style they employ but by how effective it is and how well they execute. 

Find me a corps that marches more or plays more notes than The Cadets of 1993?  And that Cadets corps is one of my favorites; but I never felt every other corps had to try that style, or that such a style was necessarily the way to go moving forward.  What Star of Indiana did that year actually had more impact moving forward, and what BD did in 2008, 09, and 10 had big impact as well.  What Bluecoats did in 2016 also had a big impact on what we see today.  Things evolve, shift, change, so to sit here and belittle corps for not using enough field or too much field is the wrong way to look at these shows. Who plays the most notes may not be the best unless they can clean it and unless it also makes a lot of sense. 

SCV absolutely deserves this title for what they are doing as much as for how well they perform.  The same was true of BD last year and Bluecoats the year before.  Exciting times ahead for DCI Fans!

This. You nailed it. I agree on all accounts. DCI has changed and evolved. It will continue to do so. Bluecoats definitely usherd us into the modern ear in 2016. They changed the way props were used in shows, and they completely revolutionized what the performers wear. I love both of those moves. SCV has taken it further this year, IMO, using the props in such a sophisticated and fully integrated way. Their show is exceptionally demanding. There's so much going on. I see new things every time I watch the show. Brilliant. Love this years top 3.

[queenanne_1536]

1 hour ago, jwillis35 said:

Find me a corps that marches more or plays more notes than The Cadets of 1993? 

1991 Star of Indiana?

[dbc03]

5 hours ago, Tenoris4Jazz said:

This attitude is why I can't stand DCI anymore.  My local middle school can march in a 30 yard square and be world class at it.

No they can't