Pioneer What Next?

[Jake W.]

15 minutes ago, Jeff Ream said:

OPEN CLASS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH SCORES. 

moving them back to Open Class takes away a HUGE chunk of their income. you move them there, you kill the corps.

Thank you for continually pointing this out. I think the confusion maybe comes from the classes sharing names with WGI's classes, which ARE delineated almost entirely on skill level. 

There's so much more at stake with taking 154 kids and myriad of staff & volunteers on a national, months-long tour every summer. Of course World Class ends up containing the better corps, but there is much, much more overlap than in WGI's classes for the sole reason that touring models, finances, & time commitments make up so much of the class distinctions in DCI. It irks me that people still assume it boils down to who's better than whom. Again, thank you for your diligence on this issue.

[Jeff Ream]

10 minutes ago, Jake W. said:

Thank you for continually pointing this out. I think the confusion maybe comes from the classes sharing names with WGI's classes, which ARE delineated almost entirely on skill level. 

There's so much more at stake with taking 154 kids and myriad of staff & volunteers on a national, months-long tour every summer. Of course World Class ends up containing the better corps, but there is much, much more overlap than in WGI's classes for the sole reason that touring models, finances, & time commitments make up so much of the class distinctions in DCI. It irks me that people still assume it boils down to who's better than whom. Again, thank you for your diligence on this issue.

you had me until almost entirely on skill level, as too often we've seen groups shuffled in WGI just because of the size of one class is smaller than another

[corps8294]

2 hours ago, Musicman1084 said:

Without being able to acknowledge whether any of the allegations this year were true, all I will say is this: This was Pioneer's worst finish since well before they made the move up to World Class (then Division 1).  That, coupled with the rumors, simply can't be good for an organization that was already struggling to recruit, especially in a big pre-season hype year.  I hope they're able to recover from this season, but if I was a parent with the possibility of having a kid join this organization, I'd have a LOT of questions.  Not just about the treatment of members, but about the sustainability and actual odds of fielding a corps.  I'd hate to have my kid go through multiple off-season camps only to find out they're going to have to struggle to find another home before the season.

...All the people that drank the Kool-Aid with that pre-season hype. 

[DCIat14]

There is a huge disparity between corps that continually place in the lower tier and those that place in the upper tier.  Having experienced the difference in these corps first hand, the amount of support the differentiates the two is astounding.  Some of these corps are barely scraping and this has a tendency to show up in a variety of ways - from staffing, to support staff, to design, to props, to membership.  With this experience, I can now understand why at one point, the corps were split between Div I, II, & III.  Not sure if this directly relates to Pioneer or their issues, but something has to change to keep this corps moving forward.

[corps8294]

Pioneer can barely field a 60+ member corps. If they aren't going to be better served in open class; then DCA might be a better fit.

[Fran Haring]

3 hours ago, corps8294 said:

Pioneer can barely field a 60+ member corps. If they aren't going to be better served in open class; then DCA might be a better fit.

That's an interesting idea. They would kill it in DCA Class A (which is 65 members or fewer).

But.... being from the Midwest, their options for performing at multiple DCA shows are limited. 

[ranintothedoor]

3 hours ago, corps8294 said:

Pioneer can barely field a 60+ member corps. If they aren't going to be better served in open class; then DCA might be a better fit.

Same argument as to why they don't move to open class... the financial loss + recruitment challenges would kill the corps.  

[BoyWonder1911]

Why does Pioneer have to move to a lesser class to make people happy? That won't solve any issues. If you don't want to watch them, don't.

As long as the money is there to tour WC, they should tour WC. 

Any issues with staff or directors are unrelated to what class they compete in. 

I think Pioneer should do something other than Irish stuff. Maybe take some risks. Put out something different. They don't really have much to lose at this point by trying something different. They're probably already on the cusp of folding.

 

[Tony Flores]

17 hours ago, Jeff Ream said:

OPEN CLASS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH SCORES. 

moving them back to Open Class takes away a HUGE chunk of their income. you move them there, you kill the corps.

exactly...looking at the 990's from tax year ending 31 december 2015, pioneer made about 76k in performance earnings. I comparison, OC corps dont make diddly. given the really low amount the Pioneer org spends on the actual corps, compared to their competitors, they need all the money they can get. 

[Jeff Ream]

change is needed. top to bottom