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SCV's show was an epic musical fail.


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On 8/14/2018 at 8:42 AM, SWriverstone said:

But the emotional underpinnings of any show are the music. You aren't going to be swept to emotional highs by a single high rifle toss or a big two-handed rimshot. The music matters—a lot. 

 

Of course the title of this thread caught my eye - and obviously a lot of people's eyes based on the pages and pages of responses. (which I am still reading).

The above part of OP's post is all I agree with.  The rest of it just sounds like sour grapes to me.

Considering OP's opinion, it is rather ironic that Vanguard's rendering of 'My Body Is a Cage' affected me emotionally more deeply than any other!.  It is the earworm that is the most lasting.  

Edited by luv4corps
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4 hours ago, Bluzes said:

You got that right but a lot of us went through the ups and downs but lately Drum Corps Warming has set in and it's as good as the old days for us. However they are trying to take everything away. Just found out from Steve R on the broadcast that retreat is now called a review, can we have anything from the past? 

Did dci ever know what a retreat was? Each corps playing as they left the stands, trouping the audience some stopping to play their concert, a bit much to put the corps through today I know. But review vs retreat a senseless change in terminology. 

In retreats of my era (64-72), corps exited the field playing a tune, in reverse order of finish. It took forever sometimes. Calling it review or retreat...I don't see the big deal. Whatever they want to call it is fine by me. It is just nomenclature.

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, MikeD said:

It is just nomenclature.

Ok with it to, some talk that night watching the review at hotel on FLO most of us haven't heard the name change before may have occurred years ago and we got a good laugh out of it, that's all.

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On 8/14/2018 at 8:42 AM, SWriverstone said:

There's a well-known and studied psychological phenomenon called the mere-exposure effect (also called the familiarity principle). It means people develop a preference for things merely because they are familiar with them. Put more simply, if you listen to lousy music long enough, you'll start thinking it's good. (This isn't opinion—it's fact.) 

It's clear that DCI audiences are suffering from this effect in a big way. Witness what DCI judges considered the pinnacle of shows in 2018 by awarding it a championship (SCV). Now I get that drum corps is more than just music—it's "art" (though I could make a case for why it really isn't, even at the highest levels). Drill, choreography, difficulty, etc. are all part of the activity. But the emotional underpinnings of any show are the music. You aren't going to be swept to emotional highs by a single high rifle toss or a big two-handed rimshot. The music matters—a lot. 

I've spent countless hours of my life studying, listening to, and performing music of all kinds. I have a BM degree from Juilliard—which doesn't make me more knowledgeable than anyone else—it simply certifies that I'm very knowledgeable about music—and what distinguishes good music from bad music. Contrary to popular belief, music isn't "in the ear of the beholder." It's entirely possible to judge it objectively and even place it (roughly) on a universal scale from bad to good. (If you're someone who believes the quality of music is entirely subjective, you're a hypocrite—because you logically must say the same about everything in life—which I'm sure you don't.)

So on to SCV's show: I've watched it several times. Not dozens or hundreds of times—because remember the mere-exposure effect? I'm not going to destroy my judgement by watching it every day for the entire summer (like the corps members and staff do). The first criterion for great music is that—on the first listen—it moves you. If it doesn't, then it could easily be argued the music has failed. Some might argue that it's not just the music in drum corps that should move you, but the collective experience of music, drill, and choreography. Fair enough. But nobody would argue that the music has a far greater impact on a show's general effect than either drill or choreography. And drill and choreography don't even come close to having the emotional impact of music.

I watched SCV's show with an open heart and mind. I love SCV! I always have. And I give every show the benefit of the doubt because I want to be moved emotionally. When I watch a drum corps show, I want to have tears in my eyes. I don't give a flip about how cleanly a difficult move is executed. It's interesting, but that will never move me to tears. (That's a bit like trying to be moved to tears by a brilliantly-designed coffeepot—it ain't gonna happen.) While watching (and listening) to SCV's show, I paid attention. I focused on the melody (or absence of it), the harmonies, the transitions, the tempo changes—I sat back and let it wash over me without judgement.

It left me cold and feeling completely flat.

After hearing it the first time, I thought "Okay, I'm just not familiar with it." (There's that principle again!) So I watched/listened again. And again. And in what is a testament to the absolute sterility of the show's music, familiarity didn't help at all. Every time I listened to SCV's show, it was just as pointless and unemotional as the previous listening. Here's what I noticed, repeatedly:

There were no discernable, memorable melodies in the show—and by melodies, I mean a sustained melodic line lasting at least 8 bars (at the same tempo) that very clearly moves from point A to point B in an emotional arc. (Think of just about any Beatles song, any Rodgers & Hammerstein musical, or any Beethoven symphony.) Even after repeated views, I couldn't sing along with 2 bars of this show (and I have a good ear for remembering melodies).

There was no sense of a grounded tempo anywhere in the show—by this, I mean a chance to get into a groove—to feel the pulse of the music and actually have a chance to tap your foot or rock gently along with it. Tempo changes were so frequent they suggested a kind of musical schizophrenia—arrangements driven entirely by the drill and perceived difficulty.

NOTE: Even some of the most brilliant, avante-garde compositions in music history hold to a steady tempo for at least 16-32 bars—I'm thinking of pieces like Stravinsky's Le Sacre du Printemps or Bartok's Concerto for Orchestra orJohn Cage's Third Construction.

There was no overall sense of continuity—no feeling of going on a journey from the beginning of the show to the logical conclusion. Despite the flowery descriptions creative staff come up with to justify their shows, SCV's show was quite literally like a long series of 1- or 2-second cuts in a video, each one jarring, seemingly designed to be as abrupt as possible.

This was, plain and simple, an epic musical fail. (And therefore, a fail of a show—in spite of winning.)

Some of you reading this will think I just don't get it. Okay—I'll humor you: I get cubist paintings. I get architecture by Frank Lloyd Wright. And I get music by Steve Reich, Igor Stravinsky, Vincent Persichetti, John Cage, and countless other "challenging" composers. I have a very sophisticated musical ear. My favorite composer is Charles Ives—I've listened to his Concord Sonata hundreds of times—and every time I hear something I didn't hear before. (And trust me—Ives' Concord Sonata is light years ahead of any DCI show in sophistication.)

Some of you will think I'm just an old fart who doesn't understand current music. At this I just shake my head and laugh: have you noticed that people still love The Beatles, Beethoven, Mississippi John Hurt, and Joni Mitchell? This music isn't any less relevant and popular today than it was 25 or 100 years ago.

When it comes to music, you can't get rid of the fundamental elements that make music great without destroying it:

1. It moves you emotionally on the FIRST listen.
2. It is memorable—you can actually hum or sing some of it after one hearing—and ALL of it after several hearings.
3. It has a steady, consistent pulse that you can slip into and feel—in a sustained way—while you listen.

SCV's show had NONE of these qualities on the first hearing (or second, third, or fourth). which is why I call it an epic fail.

What disturbs me even more than SCV performing this show (who has a long history of connecting emotionally with audiences through great music) is the fact that DCI judges apparently reward this "music" that is devoid of any characteristics of good music. Yes, I know—they're judging more than the music (I already acknowledged this), but the judging community has lost its way. Clearly judges are more focused on difficulty (in the form of chaotic, disjointed shows packed with tempo changes and 32nd-note runs) than they are on emotionally connecting with audiences.

---
In many ways, I guess we've gotten what we deserve. It's widely acknowledged that young people today have an average attention span of seconds. Maybe show designers are catering to this? Maybe we—as an American species—have lost the ability to focus on something more than 10 seconds without needing an abrupt change? Listen to pop music today and it's clear that it exists on a level far lower in intelligence than it ever has in the past (just look at all the hit songs about nothing more than partying). Even the Academy Awards have officially decided movie audiences are dumb–they've created a new Oscar for "Best Popular Film."  (Because a popular film can't be intelligent or have depth.)

If anyone out there disagrees with my premise that SCV's show was a musical fail (and I'm sure hundreds or thousands do), feel free to explain (hopefully in more than single-syllable words) why you think it was great. Tell me how this show moved you emotionally. And as proof, record yourself singing some part of SCV's show and post the MP3 here. :-) (Corps members and staff who performed/arranged the show aren't allowed–your impartial judgement is long gone).

Scott

I’ve got it! It has tempo, melody,  thematic pageantry and boy will it move you!! (although it may leave you cold). www.phillymummers.com   

How do you feel about saxophones?!?

i could be persuaded to start a

“Go Fund Scotty” account! 

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5 hours ago, GUARDLING said:

: HEY wheres the poster who said as their corps gets closer MOST will support them.....lol...BUCK UP ..it's human nature and happens to everyone at the top. :biggrin:

 Where am I ? I'm right here, Guardling. Whats your point tonite ? That MOST people don't support new Corps medaling for the 1st time ? That MOST people don't support Corps winning their 1st title for the 1st time ?. That MOST People don't support Corps making Finals for the 1st time ? If thats your point, thats of course ridiculous. Of course MOST do. We know this from the enthusiastic receptions they all receive from the thousands in attendance at live shows where everybody can see it. Does this mean that everyone is happy when these Corps supplant other Corps to make history ?. Of course not. They'll always be the few resentful. The few unhappy with the upstarts success. That goes with the territory of success. And lets not confuse continued success ( like BD ) and  any upstart Corps emergence into the coveted TOP 12, or coveted Medals. They are not the same dynamic at all. BD is resented by many jealous. BD alums/ fans are used to this, do not care about this resentment ( nor should they ). Corps that emerge as new forces, are treated far better by MOST than BD, as they are not BD.. So your request question to me tonight ie, do I believe emerging Corps in the TOP 12, or into medals, or into 1st place for the FIRST time is supported by MOST, ?  the answer is " absolutely ". If you believe MOST don't support this new blood emerging, then in my opinion, you could not be more wrong, imo. But.. thanks for reasking me this question once again tonite, if it my  opinion on this still remained unclear to you from last night when we discussed the issue of new blood emerging in DCI..

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13 minutes ago, BRASSO said:

 Where am I ? I'm right here, Guardling. Whats your point tonite ? That MOST people don't support new Corps medaling for the 1st time ? That MOST people don't support Corps winning their 1st title for the 1st time ?. That MOST People don't support Corps making Finals for the 1st time ? If thats your point, thats of course ridiculous. Of course MOST do. We know this from the enthusiastic receptions they all receive from the thousands in attendance at live shows where everybody can see it. Does this mean that everyone is happy when these Corps supplant other Corps to make history ?. Of course not. They'll always be the few resentful. The few unhappy with the upstarts success. That goes with the territory of success. And lets not confuse continued success ( like BD ) and upstart Corps emergence. They are not the same dynamic at all. BD is resented by many jealous. BD alums/ fans doe not care about this ( nor should they ). Corps that emerge as new forces, are treated far better than MOST. So your request wquestion to me tonight ie, do I believe emerging Corps in the TOP 12, or into medals, or into 1st place for the FIRST time is supported by MOST, the answer is " absolutely ". If you believe MOST don't support this new blood emerging, then in my opinion, you could not be more wrong, imo. But.. thanks for reasking me this question once again tonite  if it my  opinion on this remained unclear to you.

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13 minutes ago, BRASSO said:

 

 

 

As a corps heads toward the top YES people love the newcomer and want them to take down a few of the regulars. NOW when they do the critics also come out and will nitpick that same corps to death. That's it... Nothing more nothing less....Clearer?  :biggrin:

This was also having that thick skin when ANYONE is at the top is needed. Which is very clear who has and those who still have to obtain. Unfortunately, It isn't easy sometimes.

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24 minutes ago, GUARDLING said:

 

What I am saying iF you took the time to understand instead of looking for a confrontation like you love to do IS: Now listen closely

 

 Nonsense. YOU asked for me to respond, by asking.. " where am I ( ie," that poster ? ".) YOU confronted me, Guardling tonite. Not me. You called ME out. I did not seek YOU out tonite with my comments tonite at all. Lets be clear on that.

  As far as new blood emerging in DCI, yes its true that they'll be the resentful. They'll always be the ones too to remind us over and over again that " beware, there are going to be critics".  As if people have to be reminded of this. But guess what Guardling... more Corps that are NOT successful, get the brunt of the criticism from alums/ fans around the Drum Corps circles. Far more critics emerge on the unsuccessful as a matter of fact. Just read the threads on those Corps, if unsure.  Do you likewise have to remind us all over and over again, that the unsuccessful need to " be aware, as the critics are coming ", for them as well ? Anyway, thanks for reminding us all once again, that as Corps like the Mandarins, Boston, SCV ( for 1st ) emerge,  some critics like the OP here are going to be found when success is on the horizon or is actually reached. Of course they'll be critics found with the successful. Nothing new under the sun with that, Guardling. But thanks for calling on me tonite to chime in. 'Appreciated.

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1 minute ago, BRASSO said:

 Nonsense. YOU asked for me to respond, with.. " where am I  ? ". YOU confronted me, Guardling tonite. Not me. You called ME out. I did not seek YOU out tonite with my comments tonite at all. Lets be clear on that.

  As far as new blood emerging in DCI, yes its true that they'll be the resentful. They'll always be the ones also to remind us over and over again that " beware, there are going to be critics".  As if people have to be reminded of this. But guess what Guardling... more Corps that are NOT successful, get the brunt of the criticism from alums/ fans around the Drum Corps circles. Far more critics emerge as a matter of fact. Do you likewise have to remind us all over and over again, that the unsuccessful need to :" be aware, as the critics are coming ", as well ? Anyway, thanks for reminding us all once again, that as Corps like the Mandarins, Boston, SCV ( for 1st ) emerge,  some critics like the OP here are going to be found when success is on the horizon or is actually reached. Of course they'll be critics found with the successful. Nothing new under the sun with that, Guardling. But thanks for calling on me tonite to chime in. 'Appreciated.

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Thanks , and no problem. Can always count on you for elaborating a statement  better than most. You actually are only repeating exactly what I was saying SO I appreciate your response.:biggrin:

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Okay, @SWriverstone, I read your OP (and really enjoyed it, btw!) and about 15 pages of responses.  I just wanted to add something else for your consideration.  

"It left me cold and feeling completely flat."  Here's something you may not have considered:

The show is called "Babylon".  As a Christian that studies Bible history and prophesy, that proper noun is incredibly loaded.  Combined with the very clear Tower of Babel incident in the opening and the obvious (to me, anyway) rebuilding of that Tower and all it represents at the end, I was left with an incredibly heavy impression of the show, and here it is:

I, too, was left cold and feeling completely flat by the show...... BUT MAN did that fit the term Babylon for me.  It was PERFECT.  The lack of hope, the wallowing and celebration of sin and defiance of God... dude, the show was an incredible commentary on what Babylon represents.  

So, though I don't know if the designers had all of that subtext in mind, I think it was a genius-level depiction of the Biblical account of Babylon through the ages precisely because of what you felt on your first and second listens.   

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###### if I can't stop humming that ballad and closer

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