ContraRich77 Posted November 18, 2003 Share Posted November 18, 2003 #### of an idea!! Seriously. It would make a drum corps party that much better. Maybe this could help other people get past old issues too. I think Freelancers were robbed a number of years, as well as other corps who should have made finals and othe corps that should have won.Hmm... Every year the Freelancers didn't make finals they were robbed. Sorry folks. My opinion and I'm sticking to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevingamin Posted November 18, 2003 Share Posted November 18, 2003 Heh, what about 1992? :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russellrks Posted November 21, 2003 Author Share Posted November 21, 2003 (edited) Just curious Russell, did you think that Suncoast should have been in finals at the expense of Spirit? My answer to your question Steve would be "Not necessarily." In my admittedly biased opinion I would have had Suncoast battling Skyryders for 10th place while Spirit and Cavaliers fought it out for 12th. For the purpose of this debate though, I'll focus only on Suncoast and Spirit. In reviewing the season's scores, Suncoast only beat Spirit twice all season...once at Midwest prelims and once at DCI North prelims. Spirit's margin of victory over Suncoast all season ranged anywhere from 12+ points in the early season to 3-5 points just 5 days before finals. This is absolutely true and only makes what happened to Suncoast even more of a travesty. The scoring spreads between the two corps, especially early on were absolutely ridiculous. The reason for such a discrepancy? There are two reasons. One is called “Politics.” And the other is called “Paying dues.” It’s politics and paying dues that says “You can’t be competitive with Spirit, They were 9th place last year and you were 21st!” It’s the same politics that Spirit was able to largely avoid in 1978 when we jumped from 23rd the year before all the way to 6th. Why?... because we had Jim Ott and Tom Float on staff. These two men were already at the top of their respective fields so the judges could not ignore what they were hearing even though they were not familiar with the CORPS they were hearing it from. In a sense, Spirit benefited from all the dues that Jim and Tom had paid years earlier. We got no such respect in marching because Dave Bandy, myself (and the rest of the marching staff) had yet to establish ourselves, but the corps still marched well enough to finish 9th in M&M. Anyone who marched Spirit in ’79 can tell you what Politics felt like when we went to California in early July with a monster show that had been complete for over a month and was already in mid-season form, only to lose to B.D. and especially S.C. at every show until we left the State. (B.D and S.C usually didn't even have their whole show done until the last part of June and it showed). Anyway , I think you get my point but if not I have plenty more examples. In prelims, we were 9th in both Brass and M&M. We were in finals in all captions. Suncoast was 12th in brass and all other captions were 13th and below. Well Steve, if your argument is going to consist of judges scores only, then obviously you win and I lose. My whole reason for starting this topic is that I don't agree with the scores. I would prefer to make my argument this way. Visually speaking, I believe Suncoast had a show full of demanding exposure with very difficult and memorable drill moves…. 5 or 6 full corps rotations including the Suncoast “S” and the Sun in “Sunshine”, the Star and Leaf in “Lullabye of the Leaves”, the tying knot with blind cross throughs in the guard and hornline (also in Lullabye), the palm tree on an island and the unwinding rolling spiral in drum solo, the Figure eight, and the Seagull in “Greatest Love” (rotations were the shiznit back in 82)… A fully integrated drum line visually who even had five drill set changes in their drum solo, not to mention the introduction of the sign language segment and drill that utilized every part of the field, taking the corps off axis and executing difficult angles with respect to front sideline orientation. I don’t care what anybody says, I know marching and ‘82 Suncoast marched their ##### off. Much of what we did was over the heads of many of the judges (not very hard to do at the time) and performed so well that it didn’t look hard and was obviously not given the credit it deserved. 15th in marching at prelims was by far the biggest insult of my teaching career. Steve, maybe you could elaborate on some of the memorable visual aspects of Spirit's '82 show? I also know a good quality horn line when I hear one. Over the years Suncoast has had quite a reputation for quality horn lines. 1982 was no different, or ’81 for that matter. They just didn’t get the respect (scores) they deserved. Granted, Robert Smith had not yet become Robert W. Smith but he was just as brilliant an arranger and instructor of brass without the W. We also had another horn instructor named Frank Williams. Ever heard of him? They are both household names now but that was not the case in 1982. I will concede Spirit had us beat on the sheer power of their impacts, but tone quality and intonation? Ensemble blend? Phrasing? Quality of the arrangements? No way. I remember Robert Smith told me of a plane ride (I think he was returning from the rules congress) where he was sitting next to Gary Markham (Spirits Arranger and horn instructor) in which Gary asked Robert if he would take a look at his arrangement of “You are my Sunshine” (Spirit’s, and coincidently, Suncoast’s opener in ’82). Robert told me he could not believe the mistakes that he saw in some of the chord structures, mistakes that I might add were NEVER corrected (I guess Robert forgot to point them out). Steve, you could clean and clean an arrangement like that all you want and it would still sound not quite right. Anyone that would like to compare these two arrangements with the original Singers Unlimited version and let me know which one is Superior, please feel free, or better yet, just listen to Spirit and then Suncoast and decide for yourself. What Robert Smith and Frank Williams have gone on to accomplish in this activity is a matter of record. Steve, can you enlighten me as to what Gary Markham has been up to since Spirit let him go after the '82 season? To sum up my argument, obviously this is just my opinion Steve, but I feel that '82 Spirit in many ways was riding on the reputation of 4 straight years of top 12 finishes (including two in the top 4), the first 2 of which I had a significant role in helping them to achieve. '82 Suncoast on the other hand was slowly trying to earn a reputation and was paying their dues big time. We got no respect from the judges simply because of who we had been previously rather than what we had become over the course of one winter and spring. Conversely, in my opinion Spirit got too much respect for the exact same reasons. Edited November 27, 2003 by Russellrks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russellrks Posted November 21, 2003 Author Share Posted November 21, 2003 (edited) Sorry, double post. Edited November 21, 2003 by Russellrks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russellrks Posted November 21, 2003 Author Share Posted November 21, 2003 Dang, can I get a do over on how to post these quotes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randomnoise Posted November 21, 2003 Share Posted November 21, 2003 Russell - get over it. B) Guard folks - Jay Murphy did not teach the 1980 BD Rifle line - it was Shirley Stratton (now Dorritie). They were awesome. So was 27. And Phantom. And SCV. As a matter of fact, they're all winners! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malibu Posted November 21, 2003 Share Posted November 21, 2003 Guard folks - Jay Murphy did not teach the 1980 BD Rifle line - it was Shirley Stratton (now Dorritie). Yeah I know 'cause Jay was working with our rifle line some that year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byline Posted November 22, 2003 Share Posted November 22, 2003 Guard folks - Jay Murphy did not teach the 1980 BD Rifle line - it was Shirley Stratton (now Dorritie). They were awesome. So was 27. And Phantom. And SCV.As a matter of fact, they're all winners! Thanks for the clarification. And I agree with that last sentence! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russellrks Posted November 22, 2003 Author Share Posted November 22, 2003 Thanks Chris, I needed that. B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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