oldbandguy Posted July 22, 2005 Share Posted July 22, 2005 From Hopkins Blog 7/21: As I watched yesterday, and regardless the many improvements we make, it seems that we will have a difficult time of it, until the panels speak to the show, the coordination, and the difficulty of what the kids do. We had a GE judge in Kansas who never spoke to the show. He never commented on the Catholic School girls, he never wondered about about the door, he never made mention of the twilight zone, the four girls, the dream, the intro, or the change in dreams. How are we to do well when there is no recognition? And as for the age-old achievement issue ... the role of the judge is to determine who is achieving the most. If I have a show of 9 difficulty and achieve it at 80% ... let's call it a 72. If I have a show if 7 difficulty and achieve it at 95% ... it's a 66.5 ... A difficult show, performed at 80% ... might still be a better sign of achievement than an easier show played well. So i guess the debate is ... how difficult is it? What is 196 for three minutes ... or 200 bpm for 1 minute ... or what about a percussion book that is challenging at even the less obvious times. And what of the responsibilities inherent with field placement, musical dialogue, etc .. It is worth a tenth ... or .... it is a part of the real fabric of who we are. When the corps won in the 80's 93, 98, 2000 etc ... we did more than most anyone, and we made more mistakes. Check out 1993 ... WOW ... fast, furious and NOT PERFECT. But, it was clear these kids were on another planet. Today, well ... the world is more conservative. George Bush is President, we are trying to stack the court, and for some judges, performance is a matter of how many mistakes one makes. It is a tough call. I understand. But ... when I see who we are, what we do, and the risk we have taken ... I worry. I worry about who is receiving the presentation. Will they be able to perceive all that is stacked in the program? Will we be good enough to please those with clipboards? Will one of the more interesting programs I have been involved with, go down in history or will it simply be a footnote. ******************************************************************************* Show Before Blog: 17.10 17.40 17.60 17.70 17.90 17.10 17.90 17.40 = 87.30 Show After Blog: 17.60 18.00 17.80 18.00 18.30 18.00 17.60 18.00 = 89.45 ******************************************************************************* I am NOT suggesting that the judges read Hopkins blog, thus the significant increase in score from one show to the next. (Just an interesting fact.) What I am curious about is, for those that have seen the Cadets, is their show MORE DIFFICULT than any of the others in the top 6? Any thoughts about how much the level of difficulty should be valued above execution and performance? I feel that last year was a perfect example of the most difficult show also being the most well executed show. (007) Is that what we have happening with The Cadets in '05 or is Hopkins making a case that the level of execution should play a secondary role...just in case The Cadets level of execution on finals night isn't the highest. Any thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ekleve Posted July 22, 2005 Share Posted July 22, 2005 If your theory is correct, the Cavaliers should have beat the Blue Devils in 2003. Tough call. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishtom Posted July 22, 2005 Share Posted July 22, 2005 ...so The Cadets won the show only because of the blog?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Cosby Posted July 22, 2005 Share Posted July 22, 2005 from what I've seen, the Cadets show is by far the hardest of the year...just my opinion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted July 22, 2005 Share Posted July 22, 2005 my thoughts about this are: 1. Hopkins should bag this blog of his 2. The difficulty vs. execution debate is nothing new and will never be "decided" - it's benefited Cadets in the past (1987 good example) 3. I haven't seen all the shows this year yet - but Cadets is quite difficult 4. I think it's nuts to suggest or even imply that this blog had anything to do with the score last night Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sardomus Posted July 22, 2005 Share Posted July 22, 2005 my thoughts about this are:1. Hopkins should bag this blog of his 2. The difficulty vs. execution debate is nothing new and will never be "decided" - it's benefited Cadets in the past (1987 good example) 3. I haven't seen all the shows this year yet - but Cadets is quite difficult 4. I think it's nuts to suggest or even imply that this blog had anything to do with the score last night <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I agree with all but point #1- I enjoy reading his blog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinwiz Posted July 22, 2005 Share Posted July 22, 2005 So many replies, so little time. We had a GE judge in Kansas who never spoke to the show. He never commented on the Catholic School girls, he never wondered about about the door, he never made mention of the twilight zone, the four girls, the dream, the intro, or the change in dreams. How are we to do well when there is no recognition? Maybe it’s because the judge was actually paying attention to the show, instead of all the incidental aspects? Maybe it’s because what the people actually playing instruments or marching/spinning is more important than the “fluff” aspects? To be fair, he didn’t say if it was a Music or Visual GE judge, but this whole thing just bugs... Maybe it’s because there are some serious issues with the program, and no amount of hype regarding the difficulty of the book can change that. Plus, HALF THE SCORE IS THE CONTENT/DIFFICULTY OF THE PROGRAM! It’s always been that way, and it always will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle B Posted July 22, 2005 Share Posted July 22, 2005 Maybe it’s because the judge was actually paying attention to the show, instead of all the incidental aspects? Maybe it’s because what the people actually playing instruments or marching/spinning is more important than the “fluff” aspects? To be fair, he didn’t say if it was a Music or Visual GE judge, but this whole thing just bugs... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well since the things you call 'incidental aspects' are there for effect, then he should have commented on it, saying...this doesn't work, do it this way, or wow, thats a great effect. And if you want Hoppy to stop doing a blog, its your own fault for reading it. The internet doesnt magically bring up his blog unless you don't type the address or click the link. And you can just as easily skip over anyone's quotes of his on DCP if you don't want to read it. I think it as well as Larry M's is awesome - gives us an incite on the mind of a Top 12 director on tour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowbrasswhole Posted July 22, 2005 Share Posted July 22, 2005 One might also say that the extra days of rehearsing in Kansas helped to boost their score a little as well. The show is hella-difficult. Seeing Cavies and cadets back to back earlier this summer was interesting. I know Cavies show was difficult, but seeing it right after Cadets, it just didn't seem so tough. Cadets had so much movement, which was constant, that it seemed that Cavies just stood around alot and played. it was rather strange. Execution is something the cadets thrive in. regardless of how difficult the show is, they will probably be executing i to their normal standards very soon, if they are not already. The further we get into the season, the more layers of design in the show will become evident to the judges, and the more understanding they will have. it is a frustrating thing to have judges not talk about what they are supposed to talk about. Makes you wonder if you need to fix something or if they do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victorcoly Posted July 22, 2005 Share Posted July 22, 2005 From Hopkins Blog 7/21:(SNIP) And as for the age-old achievement issue ... the role of the judge is to determine who is achieving the most. If I have a show of 9 difficulty and achieve it at 80% ... let's call it a 72. If I have a show if 7 difficulty and achieve it at 95% ... it's a 66.5 ... A difficult show, performed at 80% ... might still be a better sign of achievement than an easier show played well. (SNIP) When the corps won in the 80's 93, 98, 2000 etc ... we did more than most anyone, and we made more mistakes. Check out 1993 ... WOW ... fast, furious and NOT PERFECT. But, it was clear these kids were on another planet. (SNIP) Today, well ... the world is more conservative. George Bush is President, we are trying to stack the court, and for some judges, performance is a matter of how many mistakes one makes. It is a tough call. But ... when I see who we are, what we do, and the risk we have taken ... I worry. I worry about who is receiving the presentation. Will they be able to perceive all that is stacked in the program? Will we be good enough to please those with clipboards? Will one of the more interesting programs I have been involved with, go down in history or will it simply be a footnote. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Reading snips from George's blog, I have to throw out these comments... 1. Those blog comments from a guy who admitted ADDING to a show that is already getting penalties for being over time. 2. Reading b/e/t/w/e/e/n the lines, tell me George isn't a little bit mad he isn;t beating some corps, or beating some corps by more points!!! 3. If George's "theory" on difficulty is to be taken true, then Bluecoats should be beating Cadets by a few tenths already. 'Coats drum book, pit & battery, is more difficult then Cadets, and the brass books of both corps are about the same level. BUT, 'Coats are non-stop and high energy for their entire show... C'Mon, George, where are you REALLY going with this difficulty stuff??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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