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Div 3 curiosity


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I am quite curious as to the goings on and relative placements of div III this year. I dont know how many of the corps folded, but I see that Marion, Court of Honour, and Americanos are gone or at least off for the season. I have also observed that in the past two years Oregon and BS have moved up, and have noticed that many names from a few years ago are nowhere to be found. Perhaps my interpretation is wrong, and I firmly stress that I mean no disrespect, but is the div III circuit dying out at or am I working with incomplete facts here? If that is the case, what is the major cause for this? Fuel costs, changing rules, amps???

Any insight into this dilema actual or precieved would be appreciated, thank you.

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An attempt in amping udus caused a wide-spread panic among the corps of the third division. It wasn't pretty.

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An attempt in amping udus caused a wide-spread panic among the corps of the third division.  It wasn't pretty.

OK, enough sarcasm from the peanut gallery! :P

Div III corps are smaller & therefore have fewer people to raise funds. They also do not have as strong of a reputation to entice kids from all over the country - so most of the kids are local. In a large corps if 5 brass players don't show up for half the camps, it is not a big deal. In a Div III corps, that could be half the hornline. There are so many variables working against the small corps that it is amazing that some of them do as well as they do. Most often Div III corps fold due to insufficient funding or lack of membership. I doubt if amps have had anything to do with it and although Fuel costs can effect how extensive your tour may be, I don't think you would fold for this alone. More than likely it is a combination of all of the above.

These kids are probably among the hardest working and dedicated out there. My kids marched Div III for 5 years & they learned to perform without a lot of protection from other members. The individual exposure can be overwhelming, but you quickly learn that everyone is depending on each other to come through.

As far as corps moving up, Div II corps generally have more members than Div III, so if a Div III corps exceeds the cap (it used to be 60 members, but I think it may be 70 now), they move up to Div II. There are some other caveats for Div II/III but I am not sure.

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An attempt in amping udus caused a wide-spread panic among the corps of the third division.  It wasn't pretty.

:P :P :P :P :P :P :P :beer:

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I am sort of in the same boat with this topic starter.

When I marched Div II/III (in the mid 90s), there were a TON (well...at least there were a lot) of corps in the midwest to compete against.

Dekalb DCM prelims for II/III corps started early in the morning and lasted all day.

I never thought I would see mainstays like Northern Aurora (once a division I corps!), Americanos, GVB, Academie Musicale etc. etc. etc. not be around anymore. But I guess people who marched before me said the same thing about corps like Ventures or Limited Edition. Even my own corps...that was young and very successful, went from finishing 2nd at DCI in Div III to folding 2 years later.

Its just so wierd seeing so few Div II/III corps. And it seems like the quality (not saying there arent good Div III corps out there) seems to have suffered too as back in a the day...there were quite a few Div III corps that could compete with Div II corps.

Maybe what the activity is lacking now are the people willing step up and make drumcorps happen in their area. Can you blame them though...the resources needed now a days seem endless!

I really wish more corps would have limited touring like some of the California corps do.

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Hello, and thank you for responding,

Regarding Cathy's response, I am first hand aware at the operational tactics and different challenges associated with the div III experience. The challenges imposed on the competing members through the executive staff pose their own series of hardships and challenges as with any other division, and the hard work the hard work they do certainly is not unnoticed. This however, is not the sort of information I was seeking, and perhaps I did not phrase my initial inquiry well enough.

Shostahosier is a bit more on target with the spirit of what I am trying to get at, namely the major drop in the number of div III corps, and from my observations, the drop in the number of div III corps that field the majority of their membership allowance. Also, and I must stress with no disrespect intended, there also seems to be a gradual drop in performance quality as well.

What I am curious about are the following questions:

Are my observations accurate?: I have been to two shows in Michigan this year, none last year, and primarily I get my information off of this forum, dci.org, and corpsreps.com. I have observed what seem to be lower scores, and a major reduction of div III mainstays, due either to folding or advancement into div II. I do not however believe that I have all the facts on this, and maybe my perspective is limited.

If div III corps are in decline, why is this?: I notice the conspicuous cost increases in fuel which could be detrimental to smaller limited tour operations. Further, if I am not mistaken, the div II/III influence in dci governing has been even further diminished, perhaps along with added financial burdens. DCM is all but history, leaving DCI as the only large circuit available. I would also not rule out to a lesser extent equipment purchases *Bb horns, amps?* could have played a role in some corps overextending their budgets. Which of these or something that I have failed to notice is the cause for the div III decline? Could it be a lack of motivation as was suggested by a previous responder?

Any thoughts on this issue would be quite welcome, and I thank you for taking the time to read and address this.

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Well, its seems that of all of the corps that have folded in the past 3 years, its been one of three issues...Money, Staff issues or members.

I think that a lot of smaller corps are keeping themselves held together with bandages every summer.

I also think a lot of corps are just plain complacent.

Blue Stars have gone from almost folding to being bigger then they have ever been!

When I was in college, before I aged out...the Blue Stars were recruiting all the way down in southern Indiana! They called people individually and really pushed to have them come up to camp.

Division III corps need to dig down deep and get creative and take their futures into their own hands. Stop waiting around for that "break out year"...

I realize it is the responsibility of each corps to keep their finances in check...but I wish DCI had more of an active role.

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Well, its seems that of all of the corps that have folded in the past 3 years, its been one of three issues...Money, Staff issues or members.

I think that a lot of smaller corps are keeping themselves held together with bandages every summer.

I also think a lot of corps are just plain complacent.

Blue Stars have gone from almost folding to being bigger then they have ever been!

When I was in college, before I aged out...the Blue Stars were recruiting all the way down in southern Indiana!  They called people individually and really pushed to have them come up to camp.

Division III corps need to dig down deep and get creative and take their futures into their own hands.  Stop waiting around for that "break out year"...

I realize it is the responsibility of each corps to keep their finances in check...but I wish DCI had more of an active role.

If you go to page 9 of this forum, read ALOT of Div. III corps going inactive, unfortunately :(

That was a good discussion with many different views and opinions. I think you will find your answer there.

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Thank you very much Oldbones, and everyone else who answered as well. Topic may be closed at moderators convienience.

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