Phantom's G.E. Scores?

[mh31496]

Could someone please explain to me, in an objective manner, why Phantom's GE Scores are so low? They are comperable to Boston Crusaders. People have been writing about how great the show is and how it could be the dark hourse this year, but I don't see how that will ever happen with such low marks in G.E.

I'm not sure I understand these captions anymore. What are the guidelines on the score sheets?

Edited July 28, 2005 by mh31496

[Tsar Nikk]

Could someone please explain to me, in an objective manner, why Phantom's GE Scores are so low?  They are comperable to Boston Crusaders.  People have been writing about how great the show is and how it could be the dark hourse this year, but I don't see how that will ever happen with such low marks in  G.E.

I'm not sure I understand these captions anymore.  What are the guidelines on the score sheets?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

http://www.nikknakks.net/Drumcorps/DCWArticles/judging.html

Somewhere near the bottom of that page, you will find the guidelines for judgin General Effect, circa 1994. I am sure that some wording has changed, and of course, the judging system itself has changed, but I am sure that is still the gist of what they look for.

Frankly, I hate the way DCI judges GE right now. I have said this before, so I will just copy-and-paste from myself from that website above:

General effect should have no sub-captions as it does now, for that is no longer “general” effect, but rather “specific” effect. “General Effect” should take into consideration all the aspects of the show and how they contribute to the finished product. It should be cut to 20 points. The reason for reducing the caption by 20 points is simple: It is by far the most subjective of any caption. Who does what affect? The judges? The fans? The single biggest problem with the GE caption is that it puts the job of finding some sort of emotional impact in the hands of people who are trained to find mistakes...GE should be about everything: Brass, Percussion, Visual, and Auxiliary. GE is the total package, and should not be split up in three different ways. The GE judge would sit in the stands, somewhere in the middle between the top level and the sideline.

Brass, percussion, visual, auxiliary…do they combine effectively to give the greatest performance possible? Or do some elements detract from others, thereby lowering the effect level? All aspects of a drum corps show must be judged in this caption, with no aspect receiving any more weight than another.

It is important for adjudicators to realize that entertainment comes in all forms, and each corps must be rewarded for their communication of that form or style, regardless of the adjudicators’ personal preference or background. The entire range of emotion must be considered in this caption, from elation and joy to sadness and pathos. A show that reaches the audience successfully on the “darker” side of the scale (sadness, anger, pathos) should receive just as much credit as one that reaches the audience on the lighter side (comedy, joy, elation).

Adjudicators must strive to stay “in caption.” A GE judge is there to judge only effect, not performance! Trust your colleague to deal with matters of intonation, attacks, marching & maneuvering, etc. Be focused only on THE BIG PICTURE! The audience should play a large part in what the judge assigns. However, the influence of the audience’s reaction should be tempered by the interpretation of it being a genuine response to excellent performances, rather than a vocal minority and/or hometown supporters. An audience reaction that leaves the judge personally unimpressed DESERVES CREDIT, for it has achieved effect. On the other hand, a judge should also credit a production that he or she finds worthwhile, even if the reaction of the audience is subdued.

Anyhow, that's my two cents. I don't know what is going on specifically with regards to Regiment, but I do know that I have not liked the way GE has been judged for many years. Even when Regiment won GE in 1996 (I think I wrote this only a year or two after that).

[jwillis35]

I would not read too much into Phantom's GE scores. If they are receiving these reads from more than one judge, and at this point they are, then there must be some sound reasons for their scores. It could just be cleaning, it could be that they need more percussive GE, it could be that the judges like what they have but felt the other corps were selling their product a bit better.

I don't know.

This is the difficult challenge in judging. It is not an easy job, and unless someone were to interview a judge, or a group of judges, to get their comments about GE, Phantom, and the other corps, we really cannot speculate as to why their scores are lower than some.

Things can change very quickly in DCI. Phantom did pass Madison the other night, and I really think the Scouts will have a difficult time of jumping Phantom for the remainder of the summer. Both are great shows, but Phantom is really kickin' if you ask me. But their ending also needs work, and their horns did not play all that well towards the end of the show (APDs from San Antonio).

Also, if you look at the history of DCI finals, in most cases I feel the judges get it right when it comes to placements, as well as who wins the captions. There are years where we will all disagree, but for the most part I think the judges do very well. I believe in the DCI judges and their training, and if Phantom's scores in GE are where they are, then I am inclined to believe that the judges have done a good job of assinging the correct numbers and ranking. If it's meant to change, if Phantom does the things to make it change, then it will. It's up to Phantom, not the judges. And I think they will do just fine, probably great.

I will agree with Nick that GE is judged in a somewhat strange manner. I have not totallly understood it since around 1993. Perhaps it is similar. Some people thing GE is only crowd response. But to me, in a nutshell, it's the corps' ability to communicate every visual and musical idea in their show, whatever those ideas happens to be. It's not that they are not looking out for the audience, because I do believe they are, but not every idea of every show will meet the acceptance of all fans. It is always difficult to standardize something like GE. What is good entertainment? What is good GE? To the eye of the beholder I say, and how can you standardize something so subjective and so comprehensive. So GE is certainly one of those very difficult areas to judge. But I do think some good discussion on tweaking GE may help, and I appreciated what Nick brought to the table on that subject a while back.

Jonathan

[BustSaAmp]

I could be that they're trying to hide there amps under their keyboards.

[apoch003]

Personally, I think the scores being lower are the norm for Phantom. And I think I know why.

Their show combines old school with new school drum corps. EVERYONE loves it. However, it clearly isn't modern drum corps.

This is what's causing all this controversy.

Still, I thought it was the best show I'd seen in years, and I hope they do well at finals.

Edited July 28, 2005 by apoch003

[TexasPRfan]

Are you sure Phantom isn't using amps? It sure looked like they had small speakers under their keyboards (similar to BD, but smaller) in San Antonio... If they are using them, they are certainly doing it in an unobtrusive way, and without overpowering the hornline during softer passages.

Harvey

[apoch003]

Are you sure Phantom isn't using amps?  It sure looked like they had small speakers under their keyboards (similar to BD, but smaller) in San Antonio...  If they are using them, they are certainly doing it in an unobtrusive way, and without overpowering the hornline during softer passages.

Harvey

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Whom are you asking? :P