Allentown Guard Scores

[CrownMe]

Thanks to all for letting me hear both sides. Even if the guard would have scored higher, Crown would still be in 7th overall, but would have broken 90. I hope all will be corrected and better at quarter finals, semi finals and finals.

Though I love crown, the top 6 are fabulous! I think it is fantastic that the shake ups are at the top and not the bottom of the top 10. I am very sorry it is at the expense of SCV.

We must all remember, those we pass on our way up are the same ones we pass on our way back down. Soon 2005 will be a memory and 2006 will begin.

[oldbandguy]

Yes, this judge may be experienced and professional, BUT I'm willing to bet

that in Allentown it was THE JUDGE having the "bad night", not the guards

She dumped on too many, too late in the season. I guarantee you

that the directors have let DCI know their feelings and that continued

unrealistic scores will be reason to remove her from the judges list.

It has happened before!

It is terrible unfair to the corps to see scoring like this the weekend before finals.

Anyone can live with a "tough judge" if they are consistant, these scores

were no where close to consistant. A drop of 1.6 in a 20 point caption is

like a drop of 8 points in a 100 point caption. If any corps, the weekend

before finals, were to be dropped 8 points from one show to the next

(without a major problem) heads would roll!

[JMS0527]

Before one of the mods closes this thread because of the stronger comments about Debbie Torchia...

Crown finished 10th overall in 2003, yet Debbie put their guard in 6th on finals night...for a second, I was thinking she put them in 4th, but, no it was 6th..

I wouldn't call that scoring their guard "low for years.."

Edited August 8, 2005 by sooneralum2001

[xmenjeffb]

I don't understand how some people on here don't understand why so many of us think the Allentown cg judge was incompetent.  But, I guess if you hate Crown enough, well...

I'd like to see what would happen if their "favorite" corps' overall score dropped 1.6 points in 1 night, much less in an individual caption.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh i can understand why you might think that . I am just saying I know she is not .And i have had many of my units judged by her many years. I have critqued with her for a long time and she is one of the best in the activity. She knows the captions inside and out, she is professional and fair.

Jeff Bridges

[Machine]

Yes a drop of 1.6 in a 20 point caption is equivalent of an 8 point drop in total score.... however, it is much more likely to see that sort of fluctuation on a caption level. In order to see that fluctuation at the overall level, all captions have to fluctuate a lot in the same direction.... Most likely, some captions will be up and some will be down thus evening out the fluctuation at the high level.

[Lance]

Oh i can understand why you might think that . I am just saying I know she is not .And i have had many of my units judged by her many years. I have critqued with her for a long time and she is one of the best in the activity. She knows the captions inside and out, she is professional and fair.

Jeff Bridges

Well, then that would mean that all of the other cg judges who have judged Crown were the incompetent ones, whether they're scoring holistically (comparing corps to each other) or off of a rubric-type sheet of criteria.

Edited August 8, 2005 by KingMargeret

[xmenjeffb]

Well, then that would mean that all of the other cg judges who have judged Crown were the incompetent ones, whether they're scoring holistically (comparing corps to each other) or off of a rubric-type sheet of criteria.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No.

I am saying that was the way she saw it . And that she is fair. I am sure the others called it the way they saw that night they judged as well.No more no less.

To say she is unfair or unprofessional is simply not true.I have not read that others have known her professionally as i have. It is more than just my opinion is based off years of seeing her judge and knowing she is fair. Not saying any other judge was wrong in the actions they took on other nights.

I guess i dont understand why this is so hard to understand.

Have i been upset with scores over the years ?? Have I been kicked out of critiques for being upset ?? YES !! Does that mean that the judge cheated or was unfair ?? NO !! Did we have a major difference of opinion about the result ?/ YES !!

I have a couple with Debbie myself. But as i stated when asked to take another look for what i thought may have been missed She always did. DId i always get the answer i wanted?? NO !! But she was always fair in taking that look.

As far as the criteria reference goes have you seen the back of the sheets? Do you know how big those boxes are? If so ,then you know that she would be in the same box as others just lower.

Ok enough from me . I know what i know and i know Debbie is fair ,well trained,intelligent,caring and loves the activity.

Jeff

[somerville]

I have known Debbie since the mid 80's and I agree that she is professional and really not someone that I would say is "politcal" in any way. She has judged my guards in the past and I have not always agreed with her opinion. he is though, is incredibly knowledgeable, has years of experience and overall is respected in the activity.

I think many people may not like some of her scores in the past because she really does call them like she sees them and doesn't take any other influences to mind i.e other judges or staff.

Many of you can simply disagree with her and that is fair.

[MikeD]

Well, then that would mean that all of the other cg judges who have judged Crown were the incompetent ones, whether they're scoring holistically (comparing corps to each other) or off of a rubric-type sheet of criteria.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have never met the woman, and I love Crown, but...

If she can back up her ranking and rating with reaons for her scores/placements, IMO she would have done her job in a fair and honest way.

Doesn't make the rest incompetent...or her incompetent.

Mike

[Chuckels]

I am glad I wasn't the only one that noticed this scoring trend by Debbie. It was bad enough that she dumped Crown one night and that could have justified a bad night but dumping them a second night that's very questionable. I talked to people at the show last night and they said Crown's guard had a great run so the theory of a bad night is out.

I know I was talking to someone in the guard industry and they were saying that Debbie is very opionionated and if she doesn't like what you are doing she is going to blast you. I have heard through the grapevine she doesn't like the way Crown is protraying the show. I haven't seen a sheet but have asked some people and they have told me that the guard judge is to judge the work being done and how it is executed which is the way I have always thought the guard judge judged but apparently not Debbie. I thought it was more the GE judge to make a call on how you were portraying the show.

I am not saying that Debbie is a bad judge or incompatent but she needs to judge the sheet and not her personal preference. I have heard she is a very good judge but these numbers make you wonder. I can tell you that Crown is not a 12th place guard. I'm not questioning the score as much as the placement. I don't care what the number is but the placement needs to be right and I know that SCV is not close to Crown.

Edited August 8, 2005 by Chuckels