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Here Comes Div. III! Semis Today!


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Teal Sound would have to fall by more than a point....sorry, don't see it happening.

It looks like a year of 9 and 3.

Has there been a year since the new format when Div. III put more than 3 corps in finals?

Tom Brace

2003 was the only year that did not include 9 DivII corps since the new II/III Finals format was initiated in 2002. That season's Finals was composed of 8 DivII corps (Esperanza, Patriots, Spartans, East Coast Jazz, Jersey Surf, Revolution, Capital Sound, and Impulse) and 4 DivIII corps (Blue Stars, Yamato, Marion Glory Cadets, and Lehigh Valley Knights). DivII Memphis Sound did not advance to the bright-and-early, 8AM Saturday morning show. There is a general consensus among people who marched that summer that it was not an especially strong year for DivII (especially coming after '02 where DivII Finals had amazing programs from Magic of Orlando, Capital Regiment, Mandarins, Santa Clara Vanguard Cadets, Spartans, Esperanza, Patriots, East Coast Jazz, and Jersey Surf).

Little known tidbit: there has been a year since beginning the "new" Finals format other than '03 where there has been more than 3 DivIII corps advancing to Finals. In '02, DivIII Taipei Yuehfu finished 3rd, but they competed under International Division rules and could not exclude a North American corps from advancing. 4th place Yamato was allowed to compete Wed. night (back when Finals was during the week) in Madison that year, making for 9 DivII corps and 4 DivIII corps.

The original intent of the new format was to highlight the best corps DivII/III had to offer, regardless of division. Sadly, DivII/III is no more popular than it was four seasons ago and DivIII corps who finish in the upper echelon of their division continue to be excluded from showcasing their performance at Finals. It's time to create a proportional system for finalist spots based on the total number of entrants in each respective division.

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2003 was the only year that did not include 9 DivII corps since the new II/III Finals format was initiated in 2002. That season's Finals was composed of 8 DivII corps (Esperanza, Patriots, Spartans, East Coast Jazz, Jersey Surf, Revolution, Capital Sound, and Impulse) and 4 DivIII corps (Blue Stars, Yamato, Marion Glory Cadets, and Lehigh Valley Knights). DivII Memphis Sound did not advance to the bright-and-early, 8AM Saturday morning show. There is a general consensus among people who marched that summer that it was not an especially strong year for DivII (especially coming after '02 where DivII Finals had amazing programs from Magic of Orlando, Capital Regiment, Mandarins, Santa Clara Vanguard Cadets, Spartans, Esperanza, Patriots, East Coast Jazz, and Jersey Surf).

Little known tidbit: there has been a year since beginning the "new" Finals format other than '03 where there has been more than 3 DivIII corps advancing to Finals. In '02, DivIII Taipei Yuehfu finished 3rd, but they competed under International Division rules and could not exclude a North American corps from advancing. 4th place Yamato was allowed to compete Wed. night (back when Finals was during the week) in Madison that year, making for 9 DivII corps and 4 DivIII corps.

The original intent of the new format was to highlight the best corps DivII/III had to offer, regardless of division. Sadly, DivII/III is no more popular than it was four seasons ago and DivIII corps who finish in the upper echelon of their division continue to be excluded from showcasing their performance at Finals. It's time to create a proportional system for finalist spots based on the total number of entrants in each respective division.

To be quite frank, 2003's format was messed up, because when we got rained out, they should have gone w/prelim scores to advance people to finals, instead of partial scores from semi's. I think that was the dumbest thing ever. Sound's semi's show was 10 times better than prelims, and somehow they went down significantly. Just had to add my 2 cents as to why the 1st year corps from Memphis didn't make finals, although they should have (and yes I realize LVK was the ones who put them out of finals).

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2003 was the only year that did not include 9 DivII corps since the new II/III Finals format was initiated in 2002. That season's Finals was composed of 8 DivII corps (Esperanza, Patriots, Spartans, East Coast Jazz, Jersey Surf, Revolution, Capital Sound, and Impulse) and 4 DivIII corps (Blue Stars, Yamato, Marion Glory Cadets, and Lehigh Valley Knights). DivII Memphis Sound did not advance to the bright-and-early, 8AM Saturday morning show. There is a general consensus among people who marched that summer that it was not an especially strong year for DivII (especially coming after '02 where DivII Finals had amazing programs from Magic of Orlando, Capital Regiment, Mandarins, Santa Clara Vanguard Cadets, Spartans, Esperanza, Patriots, East Coast Jazz, and Jersey Surf).

Little known tidbit: there has been a year since beginning the "new" Finals format other than '03 where there has been more than 3 DivIII corps advancing to Finals. In '02, DivIII Taipei Yuehfu finished 3rd, but they competed under International Division rules and could not exclude a North American corps from advancing. 4th place Yamato was allowed to compete Wed. night (back when Finals was during the week) in Madison that year, making for 9 DivII corps and 4 DivIII corps.

The original intent of the new format was to highlight the best corps DivII/III had to offer, regardless of division. Sadly, DivII/III is no more popular than it was four seasons ago and DivIII corps who finish in the upper echelon of their division continue to be excluded from showcasing their performance at Finals. It's time to create a proportional system for finalist spots based on the total number of entrants in each respective division.

Why is there a combined final? I assume there must be some reason. I just accept it as the way it is now, but why is it? Div 1/2 aren't combined, why are 2/3? ...just wondering.....

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To be quite frank, 2003's format was messed up, because when we got rained out, they should have gone w/prelim scores to advance people to finals, instead of partial scores from semi's. I think that was the dumbest thing ever. Sound's semi's show was 10 times better than prelims, and somehow they went down significantly. Just had to add my 2 cents as to why the 1st year corps from Memphis didn't make finals, although they should have (and yes I realize LVK was the ones who put them out of finals).

Sor you feel that way, but scores are scores (especially earned scores). Could you imagine the sentiment from corps like LVK, CNYC, and Raiders (all three of who beat Memphis Sound fair and square that evening) to have their earned scores annulled even though they were rewarded for their equally excellent performances on the field of competition? Yeah, it sucks when the numbers don't go your way (welcome to my ageout summer), and no offense, do you really think the corps who placed 1st-10th in Prelims were really going to finish 13th or lower at Semis and be seeded out of Finals? Really, com'on. Memphis was not going to beat Impulse that night, plain and simple (that's like saying you think Colts are going to pass Madison Scouts tonight...good luck with that).

When you look at the recaps (DivIII here and DivII here), the captions speak for themselves. Memphis was not a very visual-oriented corps that summer, and that's was all the difference. Rain or no rain, the portion of competition that mattered most (who would get seeded into finals) was completed.

No sense in crying over spilt milk. At least fans of Memphis Sound can still cheer on their corps. That is worth more than any Finals performance.

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Why is there a combined final? I assume there must be some reason. I just accept it as the way it is now, but why is it? Div 1/2 aren't combined, why are 2/3? ...just wondering.....

It's apparently been that way since the A/A-60/All-Girl days. I guess since DivII and DivIII are on the same sheets, they can hold both events simultaneously. Then again, A/A-60 corps used to be on Open class sheets, yet never were combined with DivI finals. I know, not a very strong argument.

Why are there 12 corps at finals? Why not 10 (like DCA Open Class), or 15 (like WGI). Some things have reasons that, over time, become nothing short of arbitrary tradition.

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It's apparently been that way since the A/A-60/All-Girl days. I guess since DivII and DivIII are on the same sheets, they can hold both events simultaneously. Then again, A/A-60 corps used to be on Open class sheets, yet never were combined with DivI finals. I know, not a very strong argument.

When I was marching in an A-60 corps in the early 90s, we weren't on open class sheets, nor were we competing against Class A corps at championships. A-60 & A finals were separate, but held one right after the other. If I remember correctly, the top six scoring corps from A & A-60 finals were eligible to advance to Open Class quarterfinals, where they'd be judged on open class sheets for the first time.

Edited by SkyDog
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When I was marching in an A-60 corps in the early 90s, we weren't on open class sheets, nor were we competing against Class A corps at championships. A-60 & A finals were separate, but held one right after the other. If I remember correctly, the top six scoring corps from A & A-60 finals were eligible to advance to Open Class quarterfinals, where they'd be judged on open class sheets for the first time.

I was referring back to the 70's where the A-Class winners were scoring in the low 70's. True, they might have just had REALLY difficult A/A-60/All-Girl sheets, so I am speculating a little. Still, winning Class A with a 71.35 (as did the first Class A champion) should strike even the casual fan as odd. I suspect they were on Open Class sheets back then.

2001 was the last year DivII/III corps could advance to DivI Quarterfinals without any kind of DivI-level commitment the following season. They used to take the top 5 scoring corps from DivII/III Finals (regardless of Division; so usually it was all DivII corps, but the occasional DivIII snuck in). For 2002, in response to complaints from lower-tier DivI corps regarding payouts, they made it so that to compete at DivI Quarterfinals, you had to commit to at least a limited DivI tour the following season. That summer, Magic of Orlando and Capital Regiment agreed to a full tour the next year and Mandarins agreed to a limited tour. Those three went on to compete with great success in DivI Quarterfinals. Following '02, DCI began evaluations for DivI status that were no longer dependent on competitive placement and tour commitment alone.

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