I wish there was a SPTDBCA

[Martybucs]

Kevin - great point re the "burn out" thing!

There are also many people who marched drum corps for whatever reasons, then their lives, goals, dreams changed and like me, jobs/work/profession made it impossible to march or even follow drum corps ever again!

And I think many at DCP are in my boat - we did drum corps, we worked hard, we loved it, we sweated and paid the price, then we moved on with our lives and did other things - but I also think that those of us who "did other things" still have something to contribute to DCP and the drum corps activity in general!

.......must be why knuckleheads like me still post here!!!

I didn't really mean the post to be about getting "old" members to march again. This year I'm going to march in the Hamburg, PA King Frost parade. I've only missed a year or two here and there, but I've been marching that parade since 1965. I love it! However, I wouldn't go on the field again.

I wish there was a way to get an orginization to sponsor traditional style drum corps, (i.e. AL/VFW). And return some of the activity back to it's heritage and take some of the hype and craziness out of it. I'm not saying abolish DCI or DCA.

I know there are DIV II and III and all age corps that need members and perhaps they are the future of drum corps.

But like I said, if you have the opportunity to see a traditional OTL show again or for the first time, you'll be astounded how good it is. Better than DCI/DCA? You can't compare the two. The focus of each type of show is totally different. You can easily tell, (and in a positive way, I think) that one is about making as few mistakes as possible in marching and playing and being judged by that criteria. The other is obviously also about perfection, but is more about the entertainment value or GE and being judged by that criteria.

If you watch an OTL show, you'll say, "I miss drum corps."

[markdewine]

I wish I had kept track over the past couple years, with one of those counters you click with your thumb. Invariably, when I have spoken to people in recent years concerning "old" vs. "new" school drum corps, there have been a LOT who appreciate, and or long for the way drum corps "used to be."

Concerning DCI age-outs, and why more don't gravitate to All-Age corps.....I have heard ex-DCI members relate how DCA corps were 'bad-mouthed' by staff and management of various DCI corps. Too bad, that.

[posaun1]

For those of you who REALLY appreciate old school brass instruments check these guys out:

http://www.chestnutbrass.com/site/brassmusic/

The Chestnut Brass Company would like to announce the release of our newest recording "Distant Dancing". This recording features our touring collection of brass instruments, ranging from the 175 year old Bb keyed bugle by anonymous (Dutch) to Marian's Lawson Fourier (1999 American). Pieces on the recording include one of our favorite works for brass, Richard Peaslee's Distant Dancing. Warren Benson's reflections on dance is another fine piece for quintet titled "Steps". Both of these stellar new works for brass were commissioned by the Chestnut Brass Company. It can be found on Amazon.com.

WOW A 175 year old Bb Bugle!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Pretty #### sweet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Edited October 24, 2006 by posaun1

[MikeD]

Not sure this is ON TOPIC but I find it kind of amazing, if not unusual or strange, that age out's (as they are refered to) don't migrate to AA Corps'. Not saying that they all don't but it appears to me that the majority don't. Are they burned out? What?

That's how it has always been. Even pre-DCI...count the number of corps in the junior world and then look at the number of senior corps.

Even if you just look at the geographic area where the seniors existed, the number of age-outs who moved over to the seniors was still very tiny on a percentage basis.

Real life has a habit of getting in the way post-junior-age. :(

[MikeD]

Recently, I was over at the DCI boards in a post about the dwindling number of DCI corps and I was posting my seemingly singular belief that DCI ruined drum corps, (on a DCI Board! I know! What was I thinking? I was trying to reason, but they're kids! I started getting replies with more #### than words. Well, it was disrespectful of me, I guess, to write against DCI on their board - lesson learned).

But one of the responders suggested I go back and watch old videos of corps from the '60s and 70's and compare them to today's DCI corps and then I'd see how superior and how superior DCI is to the old corps.

I took his advice. I watched and listened to almost everything I have. (yes, my turntable is used often). Then I watched all the DCI I could stand. Now, I have helped out at some high schools that do DCI shows so I am familiar with what they do. (as an aside I think they all take themselves WAY too seriously).

That was me....talking about the demand in today's visual designs versus pre-DCI drills. What I posted:

Not even close. Modern drill demands and visual performance technique required of the members is lightyears ahead of our day. It's not just follow the leader and "fill in"....even the band I work with has more demanding drill than drum corps of 35-40 years ago...and we are in no way a BOA level band.

I'd like anyone here to watch a video from 1971 and then give an opinion on this topic

Yeah, some DCI stuff is really good, but....... it ain't drum corps. If it looks like a band, sounds like a band, plays band instruments... well, you know what I mean.

Sure it's drum corps...as much as drum corps were in 1941...51...61...71...

The point wasn't to give the crowd as close a Broadway experience as possible like DCI does. The point was to be the best possible in a very disciplined activity within strict guidelines. That in mind, those old shows were extremely exciting. I'm glad I dug all those old records and tapes out. (I'd go back to the DCI board and thank the guy for the suggestion, but then I'd have to say I still think I'm right and then they'd start with all the #### and stuff and get all huffy and nasty. KIDS!)

Well...I made the suggestion and I am 53...marched from 64-72.

I never said old shows were not exciting...they were the state of the art for their day....whatever that 'day' was. To somehow expect drum corps progress to stop dead in it's tracks is what I find odd. Designers/arrangers were always looknig to push the limits and to use new things. Why should that have come to a grinding halt at some line-in-the-sand?

BTW...three 1971 pre-DCI shows were called "the day drum corps died" in a DCN editorial and on a t-shirt because the corps dared to use themes in their shows (Scouts, Cavies, Cadets).

BTW#2..while the corps still had to cross the starting line...many did not use company fronts and charge across the field by 1971. There was all sorts of marching around and forming sets in the endzone to softer openings. Some started in the corner and entered diagonally...as long as they did not cross the sideline to do so.

So, I wish there was a Society for the Preservation of Traditional Drum and Bugle Corps in America, where the tradition and excellence we once knew as kids could be passed on for future generations to enjoy. Some would ask, would people actually pay to see something like that, especially since DCI is around doing modern shows? To them I could only say you have totally missed the point. It's not for the audience, it's for the marchers and their quest for perfection and victory in a time honored way. And sure, people are welcome to watch, they'd get a great show.

Who EVER would want to march shows like that today? How could a corps risk it's existence to even attempt such a thing?

[MikeD]

Thanks, Marty and Jim, for making me remember. I've always been bothered by the equipent & pit setup aspect of modern drum corps, but couldn't say why. You're right, it does take away from the majesty of the the moment. One thing about pits is that they have to play all the time. It's distracting when it's a soft beautiful moment and all I can hear is the keyboards plinking away. Now amplify them. Jeeez! Flame away pit people.

If that is what you hear during a quiet moment..it's bad writing. Arrangers I have seen who write for the pit write music appropriate to support the wind line, be it corps or band.

As for the "majesty"....I love the full percussion sound the pit provides in support of the brass. Doesn't mean that "then" was bad...it just gets better and better.

[Martybucs]

That was me....talking about the demand in today's visual designs versus pre-DCI drills. What I posted:

Sure it's drum corps...as much as drum corps were in 1941...51...61...71...

Well...I made the suggestion and I am 53...marched from 64-72.

I never said old shows were not exciting...they were the state of the art for their day....whatever that 'day' was. To somehow expect drum corps progress to stop dead in it's tracks is what I find odd. Designers/arrangers were always looknig to push the limits and to use new things. Why should that have come to a grinding halt at some line-in-the-sand?

BTW...three 1971 pre-DCI shows were called "the day drum corps died" in a DCN editorial and on a t-shirt because the corps dared to use themes in their shows (Scouts, Cavies, Cadets).

BTW#2..while the corps still had to cross the starting line...many did not use company fronts and charge across the field by 1971. There was all sorts of marching around and forming sets in the endzone to softer openings. Some started in the corner and entered diagonally...as long as they did not cross the sideline to do so.

Who EVER would want to march shows like that today? How could a corps risk it's existence to even attempt such a thing?

I know it was you, but I thought we'd already established we disagree. I didn't mention your name because this isn't about the disagreement we have. I never said you said the old shows were not exciting. DCI has proven that drum corps "progress" has been the complete elimination of drum corps. That's progress?

If you remember, the theme shows pretty much bombed with the crowds. But that is a topic for another post.

In anycase, what you say is irrelevent to this post because it is off the topic of having traditional drum and bugle corps. Those that sought to "push the envelope" were the ones that eventually left traditional corps and formed or set the stage for what we have today in place of drum corps.

Hence my analogy of the Black Watch performance and tradition. Indeed, why haven't the Black Watch "pushed the envelope"?

I realize you like to post a lot of "so there" comments, but this post really has nothing to do with our previous disagreement, I only mentioned it as the reason I went back to look at the old shows and listen to the old music. And thanks for that suggestion, BTW.

So There!

[Martybucs]

If that is what you hear during a quiet moment..it's bad writing. Arrangers I have seen who write for the pit write music appropriate to support the wind line, be it corps or band.

As for the "majesty"....I love the full percussion sound the pit provides in support of the brass. Doesn't mean that "then" was bad...it just gets better and better.

The "majesty" wasn't just in the sound. This really isn't a post about which style is better. I thought that was pretty clear or are you trolling?

[Shadow_7]

Concerning DCI age-outs, and why more don't gravitate to All-Age corps.....I have heard ex-DCI members relate how DCA corps were 'bad-mouthed' by staff and management of various DCI corps. Too bad, that.

I can't speak for other ageouts, but I aged out in '92. I didn't go into senior corps then for several reasons. The main thing was to get on my life. Make money, gain material things and such. Life is kind of put on hold while doing junior corps. Can't work weekends, cause you'll be out of town. Can't work summers, cause you'll be out of town. Not to mention that at that time, there was no local senior corps. Although I can still argue that point a bit even today. But 200 miles or so isn't that much when you have a car and money to pay for gas. It's quite a bit more when your only vehicle is a bicycle and you don't have a job.

Recent trends would indicate a ten year lag from when one aged out until one got active in corps again. Assuming they have the option to do corps again. Several of the people I marched with in junior corps are active in senior circles. And several more from my era, that I competed against but didn't know at that time are active as well. I wouldn't say they don't go into alll-age corps, they just take a few years off before going. At least in my experience.

[Vickie Kingsmen]

Okay, I only read pages 1 & 4 of this. I must admit, this is something many of us that are marching in the Kingsmen Alumni Corps have discussed. We thought it would be awesome to have 2 categories of competition. One being the new style and one for corps that want to bring back the old style. Unfortunately, I don't think DCI would go for it.

If you want to see real drum corps, come see us perform next year!