EASY FIX to increase Open Class participation

[Creekomega]

UP the age out to one more year than that of World Class. Discuss.

[ouooga]

Pretty sure this is going to get moved. I like the idea in theory, but I don't think enough people would go for it. You'd have members of Open Class staying for one more year, but I don't think we'd see anyone age out of World Class and go finish their last year at Open.

[tnmaiello]

If we raised the age of both classes kids would stay in open class longer.

[mikehawk93]

Doesn't this just start the cycle of what the purpose of Open Class is?

Should Open Class Corps view themselves as a training ground for World Class Corps or should Open Class Corps find a way to manage themselves to attain the WC status, like Surf and Teal, most recently. A closer look should be taken at the open class corps and their function in the activity. If they would like to grow and gain world class status, which would make them more sustainable, they need to look at management. If they would like to stay with a week-end only format and do a tour to finals, that's great and a huge help to generate local interest in the activity. It seems groups get caught up in wanting to be a World Class corps without the management to provide the organizational growth and stability needed for such a financial leap. Proper management should lead to a growing membership and long term financial independence.

Just my two thoughts though....

[tnmaiello]

Doesn't this just start the cycle of what the purpose of Open Class is?

Should Open Class Corps view themselves as a training ground for World Class Corps or should Open Class Corps find a way to manage themselves to attain the WC status, like Surf and Teal, most recently. A closer look should be taken at the open class corps and their function in the activity. If they would like to grow and gain world class status, which would make them more sustainable, they need to look at management. If they would like to stay with a week-end only format and do a tour to finals, that's great and a huge help to generate local interest in the activity. It seems groups get caught up in wanting to be a World Class corps without the management to provide the organizational growth and stability needed for such a financial leap. Proper management should lead to a growing membership and long term financial independence.

Just my two thoughts though....

Open class is a class which allows a corps to be whatever it chooses to be. Stay and prosper in OC or grow to become a WC. Going to WC does not make you more sustainable. Most OC corps do weekends only then tour to Indy. Proper management should lead to growing membership & LTFI, but a true fraternity of corps striving to help and grow every corps regardless of class or size would be an even greater factor in the growth of OC/WC and the entire activity.

[Grumpy]

I think many OC corps have already figured out their "purpose". For example, the Spartans in NH (issues from the last couple of years notwithstanding) seem to have been quite content for many years with fielding competitive and even championship caliber corps in OC without the desire to move up to WC. BDB and SCVC have also carved out their own niches very well, IMO...still providing a quality drum corps experience to those who could not march with the WC corps for whatever reasons. Although OC corps could be viewed as a "training ground", the same could be said for DCA corps or all-age corps. If OC was truly "just a training ground", then nobody would age out of OC corps, would they? They still provide the drum corps experience to those who, for whatever reason, can't march with a WC corps. Isn't that enough of a "purpose"?

[mikehawk93]

I'm just quoting the post so I can directly address some points, not to argue. I think it is great, regardless of class or corps, to give the members a great experience. However, I personally know of a few corps that claim to provide a true drum corps experience, that struggle to pay bills and feed kids. To me, that is not an educational experience.

Going to WC does not make you more sustainable.

Out of my own ignorance to these facts: Can anyone provide numbers and compare the number of world class corps that have folded in (hypothetically) the last 10 years, versus the number of open class corps that folded during that same time frame?

No debate, just some facts, will help to clear this up.

Proper management should lead to growing membership & LTFI, but a true fraternity of corps striving to help and grow every corps regardless of class or size would be an even greater factor in the growth of OC/WC and the entire activity.

Are you suggesting that the experience of having a bond between two (or more) open class corps competing together over the summer is more valuable than creating an organization that can provide the highest level of educational experiences for its members? I fail to see how having an open class corps with proper management/membership/long-term financial independence would hurt the activity as a whole. If anything, creating and growing an organization would only help grow the activity by setting another positive example. How are the Blue Devils, Cadets, or Glassmen effected by the less competitively successful open class corps?

Would you rather see 20 corps that are FI and pay for the best possible education of its membership or 10 corps that provide that experience and 15 corps that struggle to pay for buses and food while on tour?

Two points to ponder:

1) I argue members leave open class for a world class corps if: a) they feel that they are not receiving a great education and being treated like professionals (which often includes them attending a world class corps' camp to check it out and see the other side of the fence), b) their current corps does not meet the competitive standard that the member thought it would.

2) Is it a true management level decision for an open class corps to not become a world class corps? Or is it because the organization is not setup to handle the structural burden of fielding a WC corps?

Tom, I'm not trying to argue. I love what the kids in your corps are putting out (especially the Immigrant Show), and I'm not blowing smoke, because you've had the organization going for a while and have been successful.

At what point does it become about making the individual corps stronger and not doing what is best for the general good of the cause?

[ajwdad]

UP the age out to one more year than that of World Class. Discuss.

You Might get more people. And you would sacrifice spots that younger marchers could have taken. Interesting idea, but I would be against it.

[Jeff Ream]

I'm just quoting the post so I can directly address some points, not to argue. I think it is great, regardless of class or corps, to give the members a great experience. However, I personally know of a few corps that claim to provide a true drum corps experience, that struggle to pay bills and feed kids. To me, that is not an educational experience.

Out of my own ignorance to these facts: Can anyone provide numbers and compare the number of world class corps that have folded in (hypothetically) the last 10 years, versus the number of open class corps that folded during that same time frame?

No debate, just some facts, will help to clear this up.

Are you suggesting that the experience of having a bond between two (or more) open class corps competing together over the summer is more valuable than creating an organization that can provide the highest level of educational experiences for its members? I fail to see how having an open class corps with proper management/membership/long-term financial independence would hurt the activity as a whole. If anything, creating and growing an organization would only help grow the activity by setting another positive example. How are the Blue Devils, Cadets, or Glassmen effected by the less competitively successful open class corps?

Would you rather see 20 corps that are FI and pay for the best possible education of its membership or 10 corps that provide that experience and 15 corps that struggle to pay for buses and food while on tour?

Two points to ponder:

1) I argue members leave open class for a world class corps if: a) they feel that they are not receiving a great education and being treated like professionals (which often includes them attending a world class corps' camp to check it out and see the other side of the fence), b) their current corps does not meet the competitive standard that the member thought it would.

2) Is it a true management level decision for an open class corps to not become a world class corps? Or is it because the organization is not setup to handle the structural burden of fielding a WC corps?

Tom, I'm not trying to argue. I love what the kids in your corps are putting out (especially the Immigrant Show), and I'm not blowing smoke, because you've had the organization going for a while and have been successful.

At what point does it become about making the individual corps stronger and not doing what is best for the general good of the cause?

WC corps folded since 2000

Southwind

Magic

Kiwanis Kavaliers

Tarheel Sun

Captial Regiment

Esperanza.

and by the way, DCI around 2000 only had a legit 17 or 18 WC corps. this also doesnt count asbeences by Troopers and Seattle, or Cap Reg's brief comeback in OC. just 2 years ago WC only had 20 corps.

[mikehawk93]

WC corps folded since 2000

Southwind

Magic

Kiwanis Kavaliers

Tarheel Sun

Captial Regiment

Esperanza.

and by the way, DCI around 2000 only had a legit 17 or 18 WC corps. this also doesnt count asbeences by Troopers and Seattle, or Cap Reg's brief comeback in OC. just 2 years ago WC only had 20 corps.

And what about open class corps that have folded?

According to your numbers, in 2000 DCI has 19-20 corps including Troopers and Seattle that did not tour. In 2008 DCI has 20 world class corps. In 2010, DCI had 23 world class corps.