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Wow... brass porn.

i like this one the best

The 4th valve is the same as 1+3, but allows notes played with that combination to be more in tune; normally 1+3 or 1+2+3 are naturally sharp. It also allows for more low range.

Well, I suppose I'm going to hell now. But this one made me giggle.

I didn't take any umbrage with your use of Fred Morris (of the Troopers, not to be confused with Fred Morrison of the Crossmen for those trying to follow along!). I got your point, so no worries. I guess my next question is this: Can you count on me for what? Going to shows? YES! Talking publicly about what I hear is coming out of certain corps' leadership? Nope. Can't do it. I will always let the Troopers organization represent itself when it comes to their business. I am very happy to work within the bounds of alumni business and do what I can to support the corps, but I would be mistaken if I thought it was my place to discuss the opinions of anyone associated with the corps. Having said that, do I think most corps would benefit from a more open presence in places like DCP? Personally, my answer is "yes." I think part of the problem we face as an activity is a lack of info-dumping. I think DCI and drum corps (plural) need to saturate as many forms of media as possible and demonstrate what they do. Leave the "why we do it" for those special reflective moments and just let people experience it. We need more public video access - viral video is a must. We need drum corps embassadors who can read their audience immediately and speak specifically with that audience with great facility, sincerity and charm. DCI and corps need to generate easily-digestible language that speaks to various fan bases and tweak the message accordingly. As for the "one solution," I suppose I have some thoughts there, too: 1. Level the competitive playing field by trimming off some points in the design-oriented captions. Give more control of the points to the bodies on the field. 2. Take out the synths. I won't lie - I don't like them, period. I gave them a shot, and I think they are pointless. (not trying to start the debate - we all know where that will go) But I actually have what I think is a logical reason to eliminate them: They aren't entirely controlled by the bodies on the field. It's bad enough that design teams are part of the scoring process, but now we've got a staff member directly controlling balance in competition. I don't like that one bit. 3. Do something, ANYTHING, to stop the slotting from year to year. Make outcomes less predictable and people will want to watch. That's just a few starter ideas.

Wow! You wouldn't be in business for long. I have been in retail for over 30 years now and have seen many many retailers fail because they didn't recognize what the customer wanted and that the custome IS ALWAYS right; first and foremost. It isn't the 11th commandment; in retail, it's the first commandment. And don't think DCI isn't a retailer; they are selling a unique form of entertainment to a very limmited market base, although sometimes they aren't very entertaining. As a customer, I want to be entertained. I want recognizable music. I want MEMORABLE music and I want memorable creative drill design and spectacular effects. And I want it of high quality and clean. If I don't get what I want or if the value of what I get is not meeting my demands or expectations, I'll stop going to shows. Overall it is getting close to not meeting my expectations.

Well hell, why have any identity in the era of the instant gratification generation? Why march at all, wear uniforms, spin flags etc.. I mean after all drum corps is only what the individual thinks his/her personal experience is right? I can tell you right now if you don't know who the heck you are, where you came from, you SURE as heck aren't going to know where you are going. You mean to tell me that drum corps never "evolved" from where is began? That it in SOME tangible way could be related to by most everyone up to about the 2000ish year? Are you telling me that the designers would NOT have progressed under SOME sort of limitations that they had used for quite some time? History says different. Besides, you are right music DOESN'T stand still, it has gotten worse..and easier..and people have noticed. Besides, if YOU as DCI don't know what you are and what you are trying to do HTF do you expect others to follow that?!

La Releve Musicale is the feeder corps for Les Stentors from Sherbrooke. I think they still alive. I am the program coordonator for a group from the subburb of Montréal for 3 years now. The name of the group is Les Ambassadeurs de la Montérégie. We are not planning to tour this year, but we will do a lot of show and parade in the province of Québec and in the northeast of the USA. This year, we are planing to go out with 12 brass, 6 drums, 6 pit players and 12 colorguard. Our show this year is a tribute to Carlos Santana. We are a young organisation and we want to put everything in place before touring with DCI.

It's not just because DCI isn't listening to the customer...it's because they aren't listening to the VAST majority of customers. DCI does have many customers, but the overwhelming mass of them have been fans for longer than 7 years...back when electric was a no-no. Those that marched in the late 90's are considered dino's now...those people are only 32 or 33 years old. A 1980 age out marcher is now only 51 years old. It's not like the fan base is eroding because of deaths. Adding electric had nothing to do with drawing in new customers. All it's basically done is force (yes, force) corps to spend more money on toys. It's just an attempt (and a succeeding one, so far) to turn drum corps into elite BOA. Those marchers from the 70's, 80's and 90's, and heck, the early 2000's didn't march BOA in the summer...they marched drum corps.

Very few things in life are "necessary" yet many things are desired. I desire the occasional stick trick regardless of whether or not it is meaningful to the performance. On that we will have to agree to disagree. I also don't need an aural interpretation of a *Doctoral Dissertation on "An Analytical Study of Bass Drum Sounds" when I listen to a drum solo. It doesn't really need to accomplish anything for that matter either, after all it's just a drum solo. Just lay down a good groove with some clean notes and an occasional stick flash and I'll be happy. It's drumming, not rocket science. * DDM index no. 1588, University of Northern Colorado, 1982

There's an old "Peanuts" comic strip in which Schroeder says to Charlie Brown "I can play everything Brahms and Beethoven ever wrote, plus an abundance of Brahms and Bartok." Charlie Brown replies: "Last night on television I saw a man play the piano with his nose." Schroeder looks out of the frame to the reader/audience and sighs. Peace, Fred O.

The Cadets unis this year didn't enter my ear canal, (just my eye sockets) This girl singing off key in the Drum Corps show, however, was both an assault on my eyes as well as my eardrum. So for me anyway it was an easy choice to make as to which was the more offensive. By the way, which DCI judge, is judging " voice ", and what exactly is he/ she judging exactly ? Anybody here know ? And do most DCI Judges now have training and experience in " Voice ", ie " tone, inflection, range, vibrato, appeggios,breathing, control, etc ? My guess, probably a few of the judges either sing ( or have sung ) professionally, or have taught Voice in College or whatnot to be able to now judge the all important Solo Singers that we will have in shows now. I'd be correct in this assumption, yes ?.. Or not ?

I don't think most fans want DCI to become this ( no brass ), nor this rather slow cadence. That said, this does have it's fans, and we can't deny it. There are over 2.2 million views for this. Not sure if any DCI Corps comes close to this much interest on Youtube. But do most fans want DCI to copy this ? I don't think so.

So my Cadets example is a case of where a DCI designer perhaps kept showmanship in mind and got criticized for it. No matter what these guys do, there's going to be somebody who doesn't like it.

I obviously voted for Crossmen. Who wouldn't anticipate this season. Almost completely turned over all the staff. Flugals, and rumors of no synth. Sounds like it is going to be a CROSSMEN show this year. Whether they make finals or not it should be awesome. Yes I'm hyping. I'm also anticipating Phantom, Cadets, SCV, and I always anticipate BD, I'm waiting for them to hit me with an awesome in your face BD show. With the level that they perform I've been waiting for this for years. But these shows designed around the color guard just leave me hanging.

Great, as long as concert sound doesn't mean subdued boring pseudo FFF impact moments.

It does not get any better than this. Thats what I am talking about.

Interesting. Now I'll have at least a partial answer to my on-going question, "What exactly do they make at that Eastlake plant?".

A lot of corps use the notch system. Good for king, less work for brass staffs

Yep..definitely BD influenced.

predictions you can bank on: whoever scores highest wins. if someone doesnt like a corps show, they are a hater. if someone doesnt get a corps show, they'll be told to research and stop being stuck in the 70's. if someone doesnt like BD's show, Plan will tell them it's because BD wins and they want someone new. if anyone criticizes a rule, MikeD will say we need no rules. the passion of the season will probably see someone get banned, and several people get suspensions. people in the DCI Forum will call DCA people old and out of touch. people in the DCA forum will call DCI people young punks with no respect for history. People will ##### if a show isn't done by late June. finals night the place will crash as scores are announced. at Allentown, you will hear someone warm up during a ballad. I will make sure to ignore Facebook chat when watching Fan Network live broadcasts. I will write a review for DCI or DCA or both guaranteed to #### someone off. Bawker will have great smart ### comments Lance will play devils advocate for the sake of playing devils advocate. Someone will like waffles, but be told Belgian Waffles are better and have more depth. I could go on, but this should be a start

there is no one cure all miracle. it's several small pieces all coming together

I would just be excited for the changes they've made to the design for a possible peripheral out of the left eye.

there is no happiness without sorrow...no light without dark.

I think (only based on source music and rumors for vanguard) that both are designing a bit out of the comfort zone. The real question is will it work? Thats always the fun part with taking risks in design. They are either really cool, (IMO Bloo 2010, SCV 2009) or not as well received by the public (Bloo 2009, SCV 2010). Both corps had elements of risk with their programs each year, and both found a different level of success.

Then listen to the Concerto for Orchestra. Bartok is a VERY undervalued composer.

The word "challenge" isn't really fitting in this instance, as the implication of challenge usually refers to overcoming difficulties on the path towards an eventual favorable conclusion, and that, after looking at trends within the current activity, seems to be ever more elusive each year. As to the three ... problems? barriers? ... I'd put the activity's total failure in attracting and training green, trainable and loyal local-area rookies to the activity as No. 1. No. 2 would be the unapologetic scorn and even mockery leveled towards the activity's history and its participants, so fashionable among its current participants. No. 3 would be the activity's stubborn reluctance and unwillingness to change policy in the face of its drastic decline in sheer numbers since the 1970s, and worse, its proclivity to blame everything except the activity itself.

I think it's time to add some people not involved with running a corps or formerly having run a corps.

So then sorry I spoke my thoughts... thanks!

The weather couldn't have been better this weekend, well it was a little chilly (50 degrees). Tampa Bay Thunder concluded it's 2nd camp of the 2011 season with great stride. The corps was able to run thru the intro of the show and the ballad. The corps had a larger turnout this camp, especially in the lower brass! The corps plans on marching around 90 members plus drum majors and honor guard. The drumline made major strides this camp in talent and also got to play on their new set of Mapex drums for the very first time. You can see photos from the camp here. Thunder will be hosting it's next camp on February 26th, 2011 at Land O' Lakes High School starting at 10am. We still have a few spots open in the corps, so all are welcome to attend. The corps will be having it's first public appearance in March at the Tampa St. Patricks Day Parade. Come check out the newest Open Class corps coming to a field near you!

well...any other names on the design team and I'd agree. But these guys know Crossmen. They arent guys trying to be super creative for the sake of being super creative. they have drum corps pedigrees and did great work with the corps before. In fact, shy of Krempasky and Thurston being back, I doubt anyone else would have excited me

Crossmen. the new design team has me excited

Indeed.

I assume "euphoria" is pretty high up there on the on the list of types of emotions people want to experience. That one's pretty easy to classify, and more uniform than you would think. And of course there are others, like rage, or pensiveness, or awe, or what-have-you, that yes, would be more complicated but still analyzable.

Again with the absolutes! Start thinking in distributions! The reason why they liked it is distributed around several main factors, with some variation. So yes, it's the geometric properties of the visual formation of the company front, the acoustic properties of the music and the horns used to play it, the progression of build-up and then release, etc., that's mostly responsible for why they liked it and reacted so uniformly (along a distribution, of course!). It's not magic...what else would cause them to react that way? If taste played a significant role in the appreciation of that one moment (not talking about others here), what would that taste be in? Drum corps? Songs featured in movies about ice skating? Company fronts?

I don't want to go through this entire post, so I'll have you do it. Wherever you make an assumption or claim or concern about my study in the above, realize that it's wrong and does not apply to what I'm proposing. Although I do agree that the tests should in no way be limited to only people already familiar with drum corps. Designers use elements that they think will get people excited all the time! The only purpose of this study is to analyze them, and use why they work to find new ones. There's only room for growth, not restriction. Is that clearer?

I'm saying in that moment in particular, taste does not play a significant role. (By taste I mean, within drum corps; obviously the people that don't like drum corps for whatever reason won't have the same reaction).

It does not. It does not show that, but that is a possibility. Did you mess up your negative operator parity there? You're stating that taste has nothing to do how people react to a moment, but I disagree in that there are varying degrees in which it contributes, some much more so than others.

NO!

I'm still getting the impression that people think our bodies are somehow "magic" and our emotional responses are arbitrary and not governed by any understandable processes. That is absolutely not the case.

How many times am I going to have to explain the concept of a "distribution" in this topic? Perhaps I should be more patient in that few people are coming from the same background. Of course something like this would be confusing when viewed in the light of a completely binary, yes or no result. Very few meaningful studies look anything like that. There's always a wide range, the distribution is what's important. That's why quantitative data, while elusive in this case, is so crucial.

I think you're missing the point entirely, along with most responders in this thread. The results of this research would simply be a guideline. Show designers already have numerous tools available for use in the repertoire to generate effect (some, I feel, haven't been used in years and deserve a return). This would simply provide results to add the toolbox, and maybe reevaluate what's already in it. I'm not proposing some radical idea here by any stretch, but most seem to be turned off by the mere thought of the implications of such a study. It must have something to do with people refusing to accept just how mechanistic and analyzable these reactions can be.

I don't feel like typing quote tags, so I'll do this all consecutively inline. Yes, there would be a wealth of information, which is great. Probably a mix of live and recorded. Yes, they are indeed different. All emotions would be considered, but obviously "elation" or "euphoria," which can be triggered by a variety of elements and styles, would (and to answer your next question, should) rein supreme. I haven't begun to think about most of the specifics, but it would help soldify a repertoire of what's effective in show design quantitatively. To me, as long as reaction has a healthy distribution, that's fine; this isn't a black-and-white issue, where some "majority" likes it and and the rest don't (no real-world data really takes on that model). I'd say it would lead to a healthy repertoire with a lot of room for variation and exlporation. Obviously the "top moments" have to be used in a specific way, not just strung along one after the other (it has to still make musical sense). Probably. Yes. Something like that. That's one way of measuring it, yes.

agreed. some alumni may bash the YEA years, but the move was a bitter blow to more than a few

I would have gone with consistent and flowing musical thoughts myself

I wouldn't call me depressed. I'd use fatalistic

Let me focus on one thesis at a time.

Right, my claim is I don't necessarily value faithfulness to an original piece at all, as long as it's still presented cohesively within the realm of drum corps. That's why I find the relentless backlash over my proposed algorithm so entertaining.

No, I don't. I thought I made this clear, but apparently I didn't. I never made such a claim. The only mathematical claim I'm describing is a method for comparing the similarity of two different arrangements. I NEVER made the claim that you could scientificaly "prove" that one arrangement is inferior to the other. This is getting really frustrating. Please, before you comment, make sure you understand the extent of my claim, and stop spreading misinformation about what I'm saying. We were having a worthwile discussion about arranging style, let's try to get back on track.