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With credentials like THIS how could DCI ignore his demands?

Uploaded with ImageShack.us hahahaha yea super bowl. good job. way to guide.

When Joe Buck and that other guy first appeared on the Super bowl pregame show a few mintues ago, there was an actual marching band on the field in the background playing Malaguena. How did a marching band get into the Super Bowl in this day and age? Good for them! Anyone know who it was?

What about that steaming pile that Christina Aguilera laid in the middle of the field?

This makes me sad for associating myself with the trumpet.

They don't owe us younger folks anything. Many have poured more time and money into drum corps than any of us ever will, and if they feel it has evolved into something they no longer wish to support that's their right. No need to cry about it.

I came to DCI in 1991, marching in 97 & aging-out in 98 (before electronics, synths, amps, amped vocals, any-key brass, more than 128 members, etc). When things changed not long after I aged-out, I had a bit of angst and what I thought, at the time, was DCI changing things that made drum corps the unique experience that I discovered, became passionate about, and then became an alumni of. Then from 2000 - 2003 I stopped following drum corps almost completely. I still had friends marching or teaching (and I taught a little bit), so I checked in to see scores and to keep up with people. I only started following drum corps more because I changed jobs from teaching middle school to high school, and wanted to check in and see the latest trends. It was a pretty cool experience, almost like 'rediscovering' DCI. Instead of putting on the critical/jaded hat and looking for things that annoyed me, I put on the enthusiastic hat and looked for the exciting stuff. I realized quickly that while there are plenty of things I dislike/disagree with, there are plenty more that I really liked. I started going to the local shows, and jumped on the Fan Network bandwagon when it first started and haven't turned back. For the first time in 15 years this past season I bought the Finals DVD's, and I honestly think that right now I like drum corps almost/as much as I did in the early 90's. I still hold those late 80's/early 90's show in high regarding from a sentimental standpoint, but I know that the activity has changed and stuff happening now is just as great/exciting. I realized that the things that I truly hold dear about drum corps have little to do with the show designs on the field, and a lot more to do with the stuff that happens on the practice field, on the bus, in the lot before & after shows, on free-days, at banquets, etc. Almost all of my cherished drum corps memories took place off of the performance field, and I remembered that what truly makes drum corps unique from marching band is the brother/sisterhood of being a part of a corps. So I guess I am one who says "nada" in regards to be coming to drum corps 20 years ago but not minding electronics. While I understand people not liking that stuff due to preferential reasons, I think the stubborn attitude of trying to force the activity to conform to a very narrow idealistic 'format' is a discredit to all of the other great things corps are doing. I'm reminded of my marching days when alumni from the 70's would talk about how they couldn't get into tonal bass drums, grounded pits, snares with kevlar heads, etc: I know that many people don't like to see change, but it happens regardless of what we think/want and we can either ignore the stuff we dislike and embrace the aspects we like, or ignore the positives and complain about the stuff we disapprove of.

But this might give growth for other corps a chance too.

I am sure that James Galway appreciates the point that you think that as a flute player he drinks Kool Aid and not fine wine. And of course the "corps director" you supported for your proposed Mulit-Million dollar corps would actually have to drink Kool Aid because he was (is) not old enough to drink fine wine.

Oh he's real. Been spewing gibberish for years.

There's about amillion pieces of music that use it in some way (No I don't think that's a hyperbole). Some music bases it around the text by Thomas of Celano or the part of a religious mass, and some directly quote the more famous chant version of it. Both Verdi's and Mozart's "Requiem"s don't use the chant's musical theme, but rely on the text itself in inspiration for their compositions. However you'll see the chant version pop up in a ridiculous amount of music. Original Chant: Berlioz' "Symphonie Fantastique": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXHTtgNxAyQ Liszt's "Totentanz": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqCEhmqsSnY Crumb's "Black Angels": (it pops up much later in the piece)Daugherty's "Dead Elvis": The end of the Cadets' 2008 show actually quoted it if any of you remember that. Which version Regiment will use is anyone's guess. Maybe they'll use as many as possible...or maybe they'll just take the theme from the chant and run with it.

and...to answer this topic in a way luvs me sum mello is famous for....

"WE" don't have any say in the matter. I don't want woodwinds either but this thread is useless.

Ok. Then you've decided that the unique appeal of drum corps is in its quaintness. You're going to go to the tiny segment of the market that attends chamber concerts and performances of Gogol in Russian. Last one out of the stadium, please put out the lights. "Different" in any product line can simply mean "different from itself". We've had 25 or 30 years of this style of drum corps (the Cadets ushered in the modern era in 82/83, and I'd say that things haven't really changed that much since then). It worked for the 80s, 90s, and most of the 2000s, but now it's need of an update in philosophy or presentation. The marker between drum corps and marching band should always be one of instrumentation (no woodwinds), but more importantly, level of performance. As long as drum corps stresses professionalism in performance, they'll have a leg up on all but the best bands.

Is it just me or is it like, every 3-5 days their is a new thread on woodwinds in DCI? I am against it of course... its just seems like where ever I go on this forum there is a thread about woodwinds in DCI.

If you believe people will go see something unique and interesting then electrifying drum corps so that it looks like everything else (marching bands, rock concerts, ad mp3 player on volume 11) will not create the perception that it's unique. And we all know how how the presentation of marching band is interesting only to those MM's and their parents/friends. It's halftime to most observers. The concerted effort should be to re-explain and promote what's unique about drum corps, not make it look like the other, innumerable "plugged in" activities that vie for the paying customer's attention.

More likely it's that your companies offered bad products or services, or failed to innovate in such a way as to grow their customer base. "The customer is always right" is a weak position used by those who aspire nothing more than to be servants. Most people don't know what they like until they actually see it. The best businesses are the ones who can see around corners and figure out what people are going to want BEFORE they know they want it. It's the key to Apple's explosive growth this past decade; knowing that the future of the company wasn't in desktops, but in a digital universe. When iPods were introduced, I remember seeing articles in major media like the WSJ scoffing at Jobs' product, since it seemed an expensive toy. Guess who was right and who was wrong? And "the customer" wasn't asked to weigh in before the product was brought to the marketplace; Apple acted on what they felt was correct, and as with most everything else they've touched lately, they were right. (But the customer sure as hell weighed in on Microsoft's imitation, eh? Microsoft tried following the customer, and failed; Apple invented something so cool that people HAD to have it once they saw it, and succeeded.) If DCI wants to grow the number of participants (which should be the primary goal) and the size of the fan base (secondary goal), they need to come up with a better model for what drum corps can be. Easier to attain (cheaper touring costs and cheaper tickets), more fun to watch, and (wait for it) louder. We live in an amplified world. Time to get over it. Take the mics out of the pit in favor of a front sideline mic'ing system that can pump up the volume from EVERYONE on the field. Apostasy? Sure, but the world has moved on. Every Broadway musical now (and most plays) is being amplified. People are used to hearing music pumped at them loud. My guess is that it's not that hornlines are actually significantly quieter than 30 years ago, but that our standards for what is "loud" have been changed by the world around us. The experience of going to a show should be faster (cut the break time between acts to 6 minutes or less), and bigger (the judging should embrace again the old "free minute" at the end so that corps can let loose with their biggest finishes). And someone is going to have to work with the corps to get them to understand how to program in such a way as to elicit more crowd response than they are now. Most of them aren't that interesting because their staffs are so up their own butts in terms of thinking their good ideas are actually impactful that no one is sitting them down and explaining that the audiences aren't caring about their big ideas. The challenge is one of presentation and perception. Money will follow successful rebranding of the activity. Looking for money WITHOUT making a concerted effort to modernize and improve the product is a waste of time.

For the same reason the Ithaca PBS station recorded the evening news over the tape with half the corps in the DCI World Championship Finals in 1974...and why DCI itself didn't think of video recording the first three World Championships; no one realized it would mean anything years later. In Jim's case, he recorded the shows because he loved to know what the other corps were doing. Afterwards, it was time to record another show or whatever was on television with the same tape. Thank God Troopers' director Fred Morris found boxes of the tapes in the corps office and sent them to Steve Vickers of Drum Corps World, who has released them on DVD. I have a personal favorite memory regarding Jim Jones: I knew Jim on a somewhat casual basis; (my second favorite memory of him was sitting down with him over ice cream at the 1982 Percussive Arts Society International Convention in Dallas in the lobby of the convention hotel). One night after Semifinals in Madison, I stopped at a convenience store across the street from the dorm in which I was staying with my roommate that year, Bob Abben, who was deeply involved in bringing out Suncoast Sound. Bob has been around drum corps for about 70 years. I told Jim and his wife Grace about Bob and said he’d be excited beyond belief if they accepted my invitation to drop by to eat the sandwiches they were buying. They agreed and I ran back to wake Bob up and tell him we would be having visitors, but I didn’t tell him who the visitors would be. Bob grumbled, but obliged, and a couple minutes later, there was a knock on the door, I opened it, and to Bob’s surprise, Jim and Grace Jones walked in. Bob exclaimed, “MISTER Jones!!!” and I sat in the corner and listened to two old-time drum corps fans talk about the really old days of drum corps. I’ll never forget how Jim “made” the week for someone he didn’t even know.

Here's what you need to know about Brandt Crocker's tenure as DCI announcer, with answers to the oft-asked questions. This is directly from Brandt. Brandt has announced every DCI World Championship finals except as specified below. The only corps he did not announce in 1972 was Anaheim Kingsmen because DCI contest manager Bob Briske came up to him and told him to go up top to watch one corps. Kingsmen went on to win. Chicago radio announcer and DCI judge Jim Unrath announced 1974 in Ithaca for reasons unspecified. 1975 was announced by the Philadelphia mayor's executive assistant because the city was involved in pulling in the championships. The second year in Montreal (1982) Brandt was not allowed to touch the microphone—what I'm about to tell you is absolutely true—due to an act of Parliament. This was due to the previous year at finals when the scores were being announced by Brandt in English and then someone in French and that guy's microphone cord was broken and he couldn't do his part. Brandt thought things would be okay because the scores were being shown on the Jumbotron in both languages and the translator told him to keep going. But word got back to Parliament and they took umbrage at having anything announced in public in just English. Finally, in Madison in 1985, a local radio station donated $10,000 to DCI but insisted their number one disc jockey announce finals. That was the guy who didn't realize the people "Blooing" for Bluecoats were praising the corps and not "Booing" them, so he lectured the audience. And some wonder why Michael Cesario has long stated, "They're not Booing, they're Blooing." Contest manager Bob Briske then put his foot down and there have been no outsiders announcing since. Someone feel free to save this, as questions about Brandt and what he announced come up every year. I've had people respond that certain recordings didn't sound like him, but he verified to me that he indeed did announce those shows in question. And now you know!

Either all white or mostly white uniforms. Brass: J.D. Shaw (arranger), Ryan Bybee, caption head Gary Barnard, Andrea Brown, Mason Daffinee, Joe Gray, Matthew Kleopfer, Freddy Martin, Michael Martin, Mike Miceli, Josh Scott Color Guard: David Veda (caption manager), K.C. Perkins (co-caption head), Tricia Gooley-Rarick (co-caption head), Michael James (choreographer) Alex Cruz, Peter Eichler, Courtney Mills, Damon Padilla, Annie Pelka, Carrie Short Percussion: Shane Gwaltney (arranger/caption head), Matt Jordan (front ensemble arranger), Rob Barcelo, Jeremy Chapman, Jami Fennell, Meagan Hills, Joe Hobbs, Matt Howell, Mark Hunter, Sean McElroy, Phillip Morgan, Adam Norris, Tony Nunez, Sean Womack Visual Coordinator: K.C. Michel Visual: Jamey Thompson (designer), Dwight Emmert (caption head), Jay Emmert, Darian Sanders, Drew Solomonson Something along those lines.....

There is one piece of recent research that may contain a few hints to the answer to this question: Project Persona, where 2833 World Class marchers in the 2010 season were invited to take an on-line survey of their views of drum corps. 42% (1191) completed the survey, where 56% of them came from other drum corps experience, 44% were first-time participants, and 89% previously participated in a high school marching band program. On the questions of: "The traditions of drum corps are important", 34% agree and 47% strongly agree (81% total) "I enjoy listening to and watching audio/video of historical corps performances" (note: not specifically pre-electronics shows), 29% agree and 50% strongly agree (79% total) "Drum corps should be more reflective of marching band", 30% disagree and 50% strongly disagree (80% total) "The experience of being in a drum corps is more important than the educational aspects", 32% agree and 24% strongly agree (56% total) Yes, there are holes in the correlation to the OP's question, but if adding A&E makes drum corps more "band-like" it seems apparent that 80% of 2010 CMM's don't think that DCI should do it. If the results of Vaticinate's 2010 fan attendance study suggest electronics is a reason that fans stayed away in 2010, then it seems that "being more band-like" is not the direction that DCI should go if it wants to attract MM's or retain fans.

It really does not matter if you win... not the goal... someones opinion. back to predictions.

more than 50 me thinks. Who's the corps in 2010 that did The Supremes 'Stop in the Name of Love'? DCA, I think. They were a blast! btw please list your 50 options

Parking lots and other unusual non-stadium spots were used quite often to keep the costs down when a GSC corps hosted a show to fulfill its obligation. No, not all the time, but yes, more than just once a year.

it's not keeping DCI solvent, because only a handful of the corps get the super deals

no. but yet we have issues hearing 70 horns with amps.

this is drum corps. there is no logic in drum corps

it's called their customer database. if you have purchased something from DCI, they should be able to contact you and do some research. or, set it up on the site...one vote per email address. I mean they set up vote for your favorite show stuff all the time

i've always thought of it as people who march dci are in dci corps. people who march dca are in dca corps. etc. by "thought of", i mean i spent a total of 10 seconds ever really pondering it. that's how little it matters, IMO.

I can appreciate the way you argue things as well. You will take into account other people's points of view when in a discussion. Some people that are fans of anything goes don't. It's a shame that you never got to see 84 Garfield live...86 BD championship encore was the loudest show I've heard live, and Crown can't touch it. (I didn't get to hear 80 Spirit live) You get to hear some of the people say how horrible sounding G bugles were, and they were never in tune. That's just hogwash. Sure, some of the smaller corps had intonation problems, but once they got to the 2 valve G bugles, I can't recall any really harsh out of tune horn lines that were in the quarterfinals and up. Bb was added because of ease of resale, and to make it easier for brass instructors to teach, period. They weren't using the kid off the street anymore, at least not in the top 12. The G lines were lush...powerful...and in tune. In 1982, I went to try out for the Canton Bluecoats. I was a drummer. I showed up the week after drum tryouts, so I picked up a bari. I couldn't read music. Well, I still can't read music. I had the first 2 songs memorized by the second week. They taught those that didn't know how...can you imagine the Bluecoats doing that now? (Mom made me quit after 3 weeks...couldn't afford it) I realize that you come from a different generation...a generation that is used to guitars and synthesizers in marching band. Yet the "newbie" has to realize that fans with 10 to 50 years of history AREN'T used to it. We know what draws fans in to drum corps...musical and marching excellence. We know that people aren't attracted to drum corps because of synthesizers or guitars. The new fan either doesn't like it (small percentage) or doesn't care.(huge percentage) The legacy fan percentages are a bit different. Some don't like it (a significant percentage, but I won't go as far as to say majority), and some that don't care (probably more than the "dislike" legacy fan). Some say they like electronics also, but the number that I've personally observed that like electronics is practically nil..with the only ones I know of that like it residing on this board, and proclaiming to the heavens that electronics will save the world. (yeah, I get a bit sarcastic and off tangent once in a while. No one from DCI sent out a poll asking the fans if they wanted electronics or not. Just the opposite happened, actually, with the 3600 name fan petition saying they didn't want electronics in drum corps. A majority of corps directors wanted it, so they voted it in, plain and simple. Designers were designing for both high school bands and drum corps, so adding electronics to the drum corps repertoire made it easier for them. Music is about passion. Drum corps fans are definitely a passionate group. We all want what we all want. The problem with that is when it comes to discussion (or argument, most of the time). Passion isn't a good basis to hold a logical debate on. The electronic debate is one such discussion. MikeD says electronics should be in drum corps because they are in marching band and because drum corps is marching band, it's a logical progression. I, and many others on here, don't think that drum corps is marching band. While a subset of marching band, it is it's own unique entity. Adding marching band instruments degrades and eventually nulls drum corps uniqueness, leaving not drum corps, but band corps. There's also the 2 words that are being bandied about by the differing sides. Anachronism...from the "want it all" crowd, to tradition, from the legacy crowd. Anachronism is used in it's full negative connotation form. Change or die...Can't live in the past...etc. This isn't negative when you consider that the largest forms of entertainment in the world are all anachronistic. Orchestra, ballet, and most of the major sports are all anachronistic. Tradition is exactly what it means. The legacy fan is insulted by people that screw with their traditions. Tradition is brass, percussion, guard. Tradition is that unique sound. Making an excellent show with just brass, percussion and guard to work with is hard. Drum corps is supposed to be hard. Adding additional elements makes it easier. Adding elements doesn't make it better. It just changes it to something else, that already exists. It's a never ending fight. Drum corps will go on one way or another, until the money is gone. People argue over things they are passionate about.

No disagreement there.

Those were not 'outlier' shows. GSC corps, who had to sponsor a show as being a member of the circuit, did that as cheaply as possible. I'm sure you recall how 'on the edge' many of those corps were, financially and membership-wise. There were a lot of shoestring operations back then.

No, bringing in new instruments increase the variety. You have it backwards.

Sorry kaseyW, but when I read this kind of statement, "Quit calling it a marching band...I don't see any woodwinds", I am reminded of a scene in the movie Breakfast Club where Andrew (Emilio Estevez) is cornered by Bender (Judd Nelson) about wearing tights in wrestling and then questioned by Brian (Anthony Michael Hall): Brian: You wear tights? Andrew: I wear the required [wrestling] uniform. Brian: Tights! Andrew: Shut Up!

'Ordinary' shows just did not draw the numbers you mention. Sorry...you are wrong, IMO. Listening to 1950's era recordings is what you go on? How ever does that tell you anything about how many people attended a show? I have a Stetson Richmond recording of my GSC corps and the Paramus Mountettes at the 1969 GSC champs at Dover HS, where the crowd noise is VERY high..sounds like a lot of people...guess what...it wasn't. Dover HS had an 'ordinary' HS field for the day...small wooden stands and no lights. People came and went as their corps performed. My perspective is hardly 'narrow'...I have seen shows of every type from the mid-60's to today. When did you attend your first show? Reading about it or listening to old records is hardly the same as being there.

IMO, the West needs big shows. yeah it will suck getting a lot of corps out there, but the West deserves it.

it goes hand in hand. I experienced it first hand in two different companies. why did you lose the customers? because if they didnt bow to your vision, they were wrong in your eyes. both companies now gone. I saw it coming both times and bailed. the only problem with your last sentence is we are always told to push forward...yet we keep losing more. see the connection?

sorry no can do. you can't have a good business if you dont retain AND add new. and DCi isn't retaining

true. drum corps has told us the future is all about plugging in

the customer was 11% more right 2 years ago and 13% more right this year.

and it's too late for TARP money

a-#######-men my friend

and in business, the customer is always right. or they take their money elsewhere.

I take issue with #2, because, IMO, the worst abusers arent the kids, but the adults. I mean a director who comes out and mocks the "1975 RAMD fans"...hello d######, they are paying customers. I help run a business, and no matter what i may think of some customers, i'm sure as hell not going public with it.

12/12/12 may be too late.

My best friend was also in attendance. He is a pretty straight forward guy and doesn't spread rumors or try to be negative. We just discussed the DCI meeting over several beers. I need several more now. I have never seen him react like this and it isn't comforting to say the least. Like Phan, he says he can't stop thinking about everything that went on. He agrees that the Michael Cesario sessions were pretty encouraging and organized. He said that the brass caucuses were the most calm and civil they have ever been and when the visual and brass people got back in the room together, if was a surprise how supportive the task force people seemed of each other and how clear it seemed that thy were very open and working hard to address concerns in a professional way. He too seems bothered by the behavior in the director's meetings and it wasn't all about George or David Gibbs, but the lack of anything that seemed unified or professional. He said he was going to address his corps administration to try to understand how the structure of the director and board are required to function as required by the DCI bylaws. Not in doomsday mode, but wanting to be part of something positive with an activity that means so much to so many people. Now for those beers.

Inspired by brasso's comment about nerf guns...

I have to admit that I'm excited with what I've seen and heard from the Phantom camp so far. Shane Gwaltney as percussion caption is going to be exciting, the Juliet theme has some definite iconic Phantom possibilities, the all female color guard, and I know there were some excited girls over the new color guard co captions. Add JD Shaw working his brass magic and this should be a memorable year for them. The aforementioned "East of Eden" soundtrack - I listened to it and heard in my head what it could be if it was "Phantomized". I'm looking forward to their production because it sounds like it will be very audience accessable. Draw the audience in and nothing else really matters, does it?

Fixed that for you. Honor the past. Don't live there.

Troopers 2011 should perform "Blazing Saddles!" What hoot it would be to see 150 members in Calvary uniforms dancing and singing "Stick out your hands, stick out your..." (all of you that have seen Blazing Saddles know the rest) ;-D .