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I came to DCI in the last 10-15 years and I do not like electronics.

In the 60s, Milwaukee's St. Matthias Cadets held an annual winter show in their parish hall. It was a cinderblock gym with a tiled floor, and a small stage on one end. It was a Catholic parish, so there was a large bar adjacent. The bartenders would serve anyone. It didn't take long for the patrons to ignore the bugle and drum contestants, and get quite noisy. And just like any wedding reception, parents abandoned their children, who then ran screaming around the hall. Meanwhile, the buglers and drummers just raised their volume level, to compete with the ambient din. The name of the show was "Beat and Blast". No kidding.

Definitely a good pick for DOTW! i love belshazzar's feast! Story

Their hash marks were obscured.

Following the Mount Saint Helens eruption, they had to come up with a few shows quickly. "Drums along the San Andreas - Its not our fault"

No worries, the NFL will just sync in her performance from semifinals to cover the frack.

How is that what I do. I love the activity. I plan on going to more shows this year then any other non-touring year. So while I'm here I might as well shoot fish in a barrel. Because that's what it is. I say one thing and sooo many people get upset. And here's the kicker: I don't give a single Forte what you think is a "valid opinion." No one cares about opinions. I used to come on here and lay out sound, logical arguments just to have a gang of "doom sayers" quip back with just plain ######## replies. You know the ones. They make absolutely zero sense. But hey, it's an opinion, right? So I just sit back and laugh...that and invest in companies that make blood pressure medicine. You'll see me post to congratulate or comment on a show or program selection. But when it comes to the same ol same ol "big arguments" I stopped caring a looooong time ago.

I remember a small show we did in the early season in Illinois, it was referred to as "Drums Along the Drainage Ditch". That name always cracked me up.

Shows built from the following music.... Mahler Symphony No. 2 "Resurrection" Music from Henry V Respighi's Church Windows Mahler Symphony No. 5 Design team- Drill Design: Pete Weber or Myron Rosander Brass: Jay Bocook Percussion: Paul Rennick Guard: Whoever has been behind Cavie's guard for the last few years. Those have been some great sections

I don't think it's a problem of education. I think it's a problem of people wanting what they want, and not wanting to be wrong, even a little. And I think the entrenchment in relativism is exacerbated by sitting behind computer screens typing in words trying to argue something we have absolutely NO control over. (unless we're one of the people running the show.) Drum Corps is what we get to see and hear, according to the groups that create shows within their organization's parameters every year. If DCI decided to bring in the whole gamut of standard marching band instruments and retain the name "drum and bugle corps" or "drum corps", then that's what it will be. Will I stay and watch? Not likely. Will I say things like "it's not drum corps?" Probably. But technically I will be wrong.

Colts did great, as did the Bucs, but IMO that piece was owned by the Nishihara High School Marching Band in the 2004-2005 season...

1. Not a pit person (though I am a percussionists). I marched snare in DCI & WGI 2. I think you are remembering history with rose colored glass at best by saying, "The pre-2004 pit's contribution could be heard every second of the show" and at worst you're heavily exaggerating in order to try to prove your point. Show's were indeed designed a bit different back before electronics in order to accommodate for acoustics, but to say you could hear the front ensemble for every second of a show is just plain wrong. You're telling me either you're exaggerating/lying to prove a point or you are not aware of what's going on: either way you invalidate your point. 3. Again, using qualifiers like "blaring" to try to prove your point paints a pretty biased, disingenuous picture. 4. Saying things like "40 mallets points" shows you OBVIOUSLY do not what you're talking about when it comes to orchestration in the front ensemble. By your argument, does that mean that every brass player has AT LEAST three parts because they have three valves?! It's just plain silly (or, at worst, ignorant) on your point to try to argue that point. To be honest, orchestration hasn't changed a ton in the between pre and post amplification in DCI other than arrangers are able to write more subtle and complex parts knowing it will be readable from the box. You're right, before during a big hit often a mallet part would be either cymbal stuff/aux. impact stuff or a fairly simple ostinato supporting the large ensemble part. Now, with amplification arrangers are afforded the opportunity to do more with orchestration knowing that balancing up to a larger horn line & drum line isn't as big of an issue. I would agree that orchestration in the front ensemble is complex, and with four marimbas there are probably three parts being played at times (again, though, that hasn't necessarily changed from the 90's, it's just more obvious to the layman now that the parts are amplified). Again, I refer back to the sum of the parts when it comes to DCI and balance arguments. If the entire activity is all generally doing the same thing, then the problems shifts not on the corps themselves but on the specific person who perceives a problem. If every pit in DCI is "hot" then there aren't balance issues because everyone is doing the same thing. I suspect more than likely the problem is with specific audience members grasping onto their memories and perception of what they personally want a drum corps to sound like, regardless of the realities.

no, i don't. can't speak for luvs. of course, i acknowledge that lots of other people do buy things I don't like. your argument comes down to "the majority of people who spend money on drum corps agree with my views," and i'm not quite convinced of that.

even the super bowl can't get their electronics right

LOL! It looks like to me that the inner circle lined up on the WRONG yard line!!!! LOL!!! The moral of the story is that sometimes "making form" just can not be done and you just have to KNOW YOUR DOT! :P

Uploaded with ImageShack.us hahahaha yea super bowl. good job. way to guide.

I am sure that James Galway appreciates the point that you think that as a flute player he drinks Kool Aid and not fine wine. And of course the "corps director" you supported for your proposed Mulit-Million dollar corps would actually have to drink Kool Aid because he was (is) not old enough to drink fine wine.

= a joke. Definition

Please, for the love of all things holy, let it be Verdi!!!

My immediate instinct was Verdi because that just happens to be the version I'm most familiar with, completely forgetting that the term "Dies Irae" has been used my many composers.So who knows... (insert several "I do" posts)

With credentials like THIS how could DCI ignore his demands?

I came to DCI in 1991, marching in 97 & aging-out in 98 (before electronics, synths, amps, amped vocals, any-key brass, more than 128 members, etc). When things changed not long after I aged-out, I had a bit of angst and what I thought, at the time, was DCI changing things that made drum corps the unique experience that I discovered, became passionate about, and then became an alumni of. Then from 2000 - 2003 I stopped following drum corps almost completely. I still had friends marching or teaching (and I taught a little bit), so I checked in to see scores and to keep up with people. I only started following drum corps more because I changed jobs from teaching middle school to high school, and wanted to check in and see the latest trends. It was a pretty cool experience, almost like 'rediscovering' DCI. Instead of putting on the critical/jaded hat and looking for things that annoyed me, I put on the enthusiastic hat and looked for the exciting stuff. I realized quickly that while there are plenty of things I dislike/disagree with, there are plenty more that I really liked. I started going to the local shows, and jumped on the Fan Network bandwagon when it first started and haven't turned back. For the first time in 15 years this past season I bought the Finals DVD's, and I honestly think that right now I like drum corps almost/as much as I did in the early 90's. I still hold those late 80's/early 90's show in high regarding from a sentimental standpoint, but I know that the activity has changed and stuff happening now is just as great/exciting. I realized that the things that I truly hold dear about drum corps have little to do with the show designs on the field, and a lot more to do with the stuff that happens on the practice field, on the bus, in the lot before & after shows, on free-days, at banquets, etc. Almost all of my cherished drum corps memories took place off of the performance field, and I remembered that what truly makes drum corps unique from marching band is the brother/sisterhood of being a part of a corps. So I guess I am one who says "nada" in regards to be coming to drum corps 20 years ago but not minding electronics. While I understand people not liking that stuff due to preferential reasons, I think the stubborn attitude of trying to force the activity to conform to a very narrow idealistic 'format' is a discredit to all of the other great things corps are doing. I'm reminded of my marching days when alumni from the 70's would talk about how they couldn't get into tonal bass drums, grounded pits, snares with kevlar heads, etc: I know that many people don't like to see change, but it happens regardless of what we think/want and we can either ignore the stuff we dislike and embrace the aspects we like, or ignore the positives and complain about the stuff we disapprove of.

For the same reason the Ithaca PBS station recorded the evening news over the tape with half the corps in the DCI World Championship Finals in 1974...and why DCI itself didn't think of video recording the first three World Championships; no one realized it would mean anything years later. In Jim's case, he recorded the shows because he loved to know what the other corps were doing. Afterwards, it was time to record another show or whatever was on television with the same tape. Thank God Troopers' director Fred Morris found boxes of the tapes in the corps office and sent them to Steve Vickers of Drum Corps World, who has released them on DVD. I have a personal favorite memory regarding Jim Jones: I knew Jim on a somewhat casual basis; (my second favorite memory of him was sitting down with him over ice cream at the 1982 Percussive Arts Society International Convention in Dallas in the lobby of the convention hotel). One night after Semifinals in Madison, I stopped at a convenience store across the street from the dorm in which I was staying with my roommate that year, Bob Abben, who was deeply involved in bringing out Suncoast Sound. Bob has been around drum corps for about 70 years. I told Jim and his wife Grace about Bob and said he’d be excited beyond belief if they accepted my invitation to drop by to eat the sandwiches they were buying. They agreed and I ran back to wake Bob up and tell him we would be having visitors, but I didn’t tell him who the visitors would be. Bob grumbled, but obliged, and a couple minutes later, there was a knock on the door, I opened it, and to Bob’s surprise, Jim and Grace Jones walked in. Bob exclaimed, “MISTER Jones!!!” and I sat in the corner and listened to two old-time drum corps fans talk about the really old days of drum corps. I’ll never forget how Jim “made” the week for someone he didn’t even know.

Here's what you need to know about Brandt Crocker's tenure as DCI announcer, with answers to the oft-asked questions. This is directly from Brandt. Brandt has announced every DCI World Championship finals except as specified below. The only corps he did not announce in 1972 was Anaheim Kingsmen because DCI contest manager Bob Briske came up to him and told him to go up top to watch one corps. Kingsmen went on to win. Chicago radio announcer and DCI judge Jim Unrath announced 1974 in Ithaca for reasons unspecified. 1975 was announced by the Philadelphia mayor's executive assistant because the city was involved in pulling in the championships. The second year in Montreal (1982) Brandt was not allowed to touch the microphone—what I'm about to tell you is absolutely true—due to an act of Parliament. This was due to the previous year at finals when the scores were being announced by Brandt in English and then someone in French and that guy's microphone cord was broken and he couldn't do his part. Brandt thought things would be okay because the scores were being shown on the Jumbotron in both languages and the translator told him to keep going. But word got back to Parliament and they took umbrage at having anything announced in public in just English. Finally, in Madison in 1985, a local radio station donated $10,000 to DCI but insisted their number one disc jockey announce finals. That was the guy who didn't realize the people "Blooing" for Bluecoats were praising the corps and not "Booing" them, so he lectured the audience. And some wonder why Michael Cesario has long stated, "They're not Booing, they're Blooing." Contest manager Bob Briske then put his foot down and there have been no outsiders announcing since. Someone feel free to save this, as questions about Brandt and what he announced come up every year. I've had people respond that certain recordings didn't sound like him, but he verified to me that he indeed did announce those shows in question. And now you know!

I am happy that there are those that understand the absolute need for something that defines you if you are trying to sell a product. Quite honestly, if I were DCI, I would be VERY worried about not having something that makes you different from a bigger more economical product.

GEORGE HOPKINS (someone had to say it)

^^^^ this

Absolutely! Bring it on! Why not invite bands to compete in drum corps shows? And get their parents in the stands! Yeah, that's...oh wait. Band directors don't want to give up their vacations. Yeah, that's a problem.

Who gets to define what drum corps is? I suppose it's the people who are running the show that get to define it: the directors, designers, staff, boards of directors, and governing bodies of those units. As long as they are in collaboration with each other there will be some uniform ideas about what drum corps is. The rest of us will have to accept what they do or walk away. end thread?

Yes, many (most?) drum corps members have a marching band background, but that doesn't mean that they are getting the same value exchange out of both experiences. We all know that it takes a lot of sacrifice to be in a drum corps, and one of those sacrifices for some students includes dealing with the pressure from some band directors that want that student at their band camp in June, July, or August, not on tour with a drum corps. Of course there are exceptions to this, particularly nowadays, but in the past, for some, it was a real factor for participation in corps. My own kids deal with this kind of band director even today. This is but one example of the competition for participants that I'm referring to. There are other examples. Yes, you're right. I absolutely think that drum corps is defined by its instrumentation. All of the rest of the other 99% of the end product can be (and likely is) found in virtually every kind of group related recreational or goal driven activity. Things like fellowship, teamwork, learning of life-skills, going through ups and downs, "shared hardship, brotherhood, and too many other great qualities to list here," are often experienced in the chess club, the debate team, the church choir, working at McDonald's, the bowling team, the marching band, the jazz band, the orchestra, the swing choir, on, and on, and on, and on. In the case of drum corps, it's the instrumentation that defines what kind of experience we're talking about. Furthermore, as we all know, sometimes the drum corps experience (the other 99% that you speak of) can unfortunately be one that is incredibly unhealthy and dysfunctional for a variety of reasons, depending on the organization and the personnel involved. The same goes for any other group activity. Sorry, drum corps is more than just "the experiences." You are ignoring the one thing that makes it (or made it) unique, the instrumentation. The experience makes it great (or not so great), the instrumentation makes it a drum corps. Obviously, not all "legacy fans" have severed ties with the activity, and I'm not sure how you or anyone would be in a position to determine what the unique part of someone else's drum corps experience revolved around. I've not read where members performing on electronic instruments have been pigeon-holed or denigrated. I think your interpretation is overstated. That's an accusatory statement that has no foundation of fact. If someone chooses to not be involved in the activity (for whatever reason), I find it hard to believe that that choice has anything to do with "turning one's back on anyone." Just my opinion.

Congrats Howdy! You wrote a complete sentence without using the words I, Me, My, or Mine!

I contend you are partially right. I have also seen many mock those additions

Well, they sure tried. But their proposal that DCI assasinate all the Open Class Corps was tabled for this year it appears.

I think it’s lazy, spurious, sloppy, arrogant and condescending to imply that those opposed to specific changes are merely older and having difficulty adjusting to changes Would you make such broad based age related assumptions in other areas? do all older people automatically possess wisdom or vote conservatively? Conversely, do all youngins vote liberal and reject tradition? Do all kids love Lady Gaga and do all adults hate her? people like what they like, taste is subjective

So your saying that the local corps experience was replaced with the local high school marching band experience. I can definitely buy that. I think people who think drum corps can go back to that "local" model are kidding themselves. High-school marching bands will always have more support than the local corps, and essentially in today's age, they would be competing against each other. Especially since a lot marching bands nowadays start rehearsals in the summer.

It was hard to imagine Yowza too. Just sayin'.

You have BD 23rd???? bold!!!

1) limit the equipment arms race 2) a tour that makes logic sense in how it's mapped out...including a rotating finals site 3) bring in more fans

1.DCI finals has Regional Qualifiers 2.Better tour routes [ When I was with Pioneer in 2008, Pio went from WI to Louisville, KY and back just to compete in just one show , that only had about 350 people in the stands. 3.More regional emphesis, as in corps tour more in their own region of the country.

in the entertainment world, you will always have flashes in the pan. for every Hanson or Lady GaGa, you also have a Stones, a Rush...bands that od it for decades and still sell places out. Drum corps will never be mainstream. it can improve some things as far as getting more involved in communites and getting some added support there, and maybe alter some porgamming choices and win some fans lost back, but it will never do business like Britney Spears or an Eagles reunion.

You know, screw news...and other preguesstimates. 1. Pioneer 2. Blue Devils C 3. Blue Devils B 4. Blue Devils A 5. Star of Indiana 6. Bridgemen 7. The PhilharCORPSmonic (my fantasy corps) 8. The Entertainment Effect Task Force 9. Avon Marching Band 10. INT 11. Brett Favre 12. Antoine Dodson

-I predict that BD's 2011 show will be entitled: "1984" A show about doublespeak and Thought Police that by the end will make the audience believe that BD 2010 has been their favorite show for several years. ...exactly. -I predict that the Cadets will find surprising mass appeal for their singing in Angels in the Architecture after realizing that all they really needed to do was higher a Siren. (but refuses to take responsibility for the ship wreaked vessels littering the stadium) -I predict that in order for the Crossmen to gain the judges appeal for their lack of synth, they will just have to tell the judges that they just "forgot" the extension cord... every show. -I predict that after watching Madison's show audience members will have burned over 1000 calories; the non-stop "sitting, standing, jumping" during the performance however will have legacy fans wondering if all this "entertainment" was really worth the strain on their knees. -I predict that Teal Sound will have actually stolen all of Crossmen's extension cords. -I predict that Rule Proposal #2 will be revealed to be an Apple conspiracy. -I predict George Hopkins. That is all.

I predict that all Corps that possess a lot of Green will do the best this year.

I predicdt that there won't be any broken legs during finals...

I like to predict by colors: All blue corps except Blue Saints will drop several places. All green corps will have a better year. Reds will be all over the map. Shades will be solid this year

Sorry? Oh wait, no...it's a drum corps show, and one source piece. Far greater things to get upset about in the world.

I see what you did there..... But, release just a title and you get what you ask for. I said it earlier, at least give us a synopsis and a couple composers. Sure it's never a good idea to list your works as concrete, but nothing says you can't release a few of the more solid choices. Helps get us through the bleak winter.

But Soft! What light through yonder window breaks? It is the east, and Juliet is the sun. Which explains why my head just burst into flames.

If they had announced anything but just a title then we wouldn't be discussing pronunciation. A show title does not an announcement make. You don't have to give me specific charts, but tell me something about the show and maybe a composer or two...

Let's see if Bluecoats can overtake Crown.