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Second to Chuck's post. We just got the thing and the kids were fooling around with it. As Chuck also said, we are just moving down a path already created by others, but, we may widen it a bit! Please come and see the show and listen to our kids, who work as hard as any other corps, and then decide. If you don't like it after hearing it, then that's fine with us. We are willing to agree to disagree, are you? Remember, at one point, everything except a no valve, standard issue military bugle in G, marching snares on slings, and a scotch bass drum were illegal.

Ok - you obvisouly don't like Opus 10. We get it. Stop bashing them! They were excellent - they were CLEANER than Corona and their shows was executed at a higher level. It's over. Buy the dvd and watch Corona and skip over Opus 10. STOP BASHING GROUPS.

FWIW: 1) EWI's are legal. 2) That was just a rough demonstration of what it looks like. 3) No one would ever use that tiny little 12W amp. 4) That's not a patch you'll hear in the show. 5) Patches can be "solo" or "Mult-timbral" (more than one note simultaneously) 5) Fingering systems can be programmed. . . Flute/Alto Sax, Tenor Sax, Brass 6) Fidelity with an iPhone can't be the standard for the system you'll actually hear sounds through during the show. Do we really need to so completely miss the point? Would you bag on the Chicago Symphony Orchestra if you heard them on an AM radio at the beach??? 7) It was kids having fun at a camp. It's not the future of DCI. It's a tool that we're allowed to use. Moderation and effective usage, as with anything, is the key. There is little doubt they will get booed in Allentown. There is little doubt the corps is getting better all the time. Drum & Bugle Corps (in its strictest instrumental sense) no longer exists. Teal Sound isn't responsible for that -- but isn't shy about moving down the cleared path. The Drum Corps Experience will always exist. See the show -- decide for yourself. Just don't bag on the kids -- they're great people, hard workers, and motivated, and they WILL perform their hearts out for you. Chuck Naffier

Their goal was to create a convoluted storyline about a corps that wanted a second chance at winning first place but instead found that hubris placed them much, much lower? Crown 2010 was great to listen to and fun to watch. From a design standpoint, there's no arguing that it spent most of the season as an absolute train wreck.

'blowing at wgi' - - - really? inappropriate

While I'd love to see Crown or Bluecoats win and shake up the power structure at the top, I think deep in my heart I would most like to see Boston win first. Mike

If you do recall, it is WGI: Sport of the Arts. With that being said, how is it pretentious for a group to identify themselves as an artist? Is dancing no longer an art form? Just because it isn't a framed, paint covered canvas does not mean that what these performers produce is not art. As stated in the WGI Mission statement, “WGI Sport of the Arts exists to foster positive experiences for all who participate, by promoting education, creativity, and freedom of expression through the unification of the marching arts industry, music education, and the performing arts”. I believe the term “art” was used at least three times… Also, it states that WGI encourages freedom of expression, so why is everyone involved in this activity so opposed to something out of the ordinary. Just because it is unexpected and unique does not necessarily mean that it is bad. People are very quick to judge and attack things they don’t immediately understand, which in a world so full of fakeness, I personally think it is a breath of fresh air to experience something new and different. Our activity has been toeing the same line year after year giving the audience and judges exactly what they expect with big blocks and flag features. I appreciate that type of show as well as Onyx’s approach to be different. Some people have commented on Onyx’s lack of standard movement. Though it’s not everyone’s cup of tea, I feel that it works for them. The style of their shows allows them to expand the horizons outside classical dance technique into a different realm of movement. For those that disagree that this is an acceptable addition to the color guard world, once again, see WGI’s site explaining winter guard: “Modern color guard is a combination of the use of flags, sabers, mock rifles, and other equipment, as well as dance and other interpretive movement”. As for the claims that Onyx is leading the activity in the wrong direction; who says you have to follow? If you don’t like it, change it. WGI has never claimed that you must follow the leaders of the class, in fact; they even go so far as to state that “WGI's artistic direction is fully controlled by the units”. It is up to each and every group to impact the activity. Onyx has dared to be different. Many other groups have blazed their own trail and it has worked for them. Many have tried and have been less successful. But for the people that complain that they see the same work year after year, or hear groups use the same songs; don’t be upset when someone tries something unordinary. As for Onyx’s behavior at retreat, I wholeheartedly believe that they were grateful for their medals. If you noticed, they stood professionally through the whole retreat, start to finish. Though some people think that they were behaving rudely by not clapping, I’d much rather see that than what I’ve witnessed by some other groups in the past such as going to retreat intoxicated or removing their medals because they didn't win. I witnessed many gracious, joy-filled faces from all the medal winners this year as soon as retreat ended. http://wgi.org/contents/What-is-WGI.html

You want drum corps in 3D? Go buy a ticket! >.<

For me....I like to sum it up like this...(all IMO) 1. The execution in today's corps is at the highest level it has ever been 2. The content in shows today can be improved greatly and doesn't match up to the excitement generated in the older days. The excitement (Not entertainment) we get is in spurts (At best)...it used to be abundant and more consistent..IMO We have a lot of steak out there.....but very little of that steak is sizzling I follow all parts of the activity...mainly because there is something to enjoy in each. I should probably add mini corps and parade corps to the list now that I think about it...but it probably wont fit in to my sig... My wish is that we will see stellar execution with incredible (engaging) content more frequently and consistently. There is nothing more frustrating to me (as a fan) than to witness an incredibly talented group of people....perform a show that completely misses the mark and does little to engage the crowd and generate excitement (not entertainment) In my ramblings here....content refers to music.....btw..

My favorites in SW: Norwin- great job for their first year in world. I got goosebumps during their finals run! West Johnston- again great job for the first year in world! Loved the whole idea behind their show and the kids are talented! Seminole- these girls can dance! Loved the floor, costumes, and the choreography their were given. I think they had one of the hardest flag features in SW! Avon- I feel like this program was under appreciated. These kids had some cute twirls and gave it up each time I saw them in the arena! Carmel- WHOA. I was left speechless each time I saw them. These girls have HANDS! My favorites in IW: Black Watch- loved the shear and the uniforms. Took the audience a while to appreciate it during finals but they were hooked by the end! First Flight- this was a great show with well trained performers. That guy catching the rifle toss with the uniform malfunction was amazing! Premonition- new and fresh style for this team and it worked well for them! Alter Ego- had a great flag book! I found myself watching the flags more than the weapons on finals night Zydeco- no comment. come on... they were GREAT! Clearly a fan favorite and a show that will be talked about for a long long time! Corona- loved this show on fan network and loved it more in person! Anyone who can get through Michael Shapiro's choreography is a talented performer in my book! Fantasia- Welcome back! Weapon tricks, great movement, and long rifle sequences. This is the fantasia I remember! Braddock- Congrats on 3rd place! This is a new re-invented braddock and I love it! SCV- What can I say about vanguard. They are clean and were really entertaining to watch in finals! Love the music, choreography, and full package of this show!

Onyx made much more sense once I put on my 3D glasses.....

I noticed that too ... but my first impression is that they were in "character" for their show. I thought it was intense! Congrats Onyx!!

As a performer in IW I personally found it disrespectful of Onyx when the won their medal they did not look excited at all and it was like they resented the fact that they came in second ...I think winning a medal no matter what place it is should be praised by the performers.... not many people can say they have one medal let alone two medals... the point of the story is that the director needs to change his ways because the way he has his guard acting is very unprofessional.

I have to wonder at the reaction from the orchestra the first time Regiment "released the hounds" behind them....oh, to have been a fly on THAT wall!!! "Sure....let's hear this marching band play DvoraHOLY CRAP!!!!!"

I am sooo glad that you said that. I have been in the same circuit as Premonition for the past couple of years and I really wish people would take the time to see how the program has grown. Jill and Robby weren't going to come in and make Premonition the new NEI....come on people....thats a high expectation. I feel the growth of performance from last year was in leaps and bounds. And on the note my favorites were: Zydeco Black Watch Trumbull Carmel Orlando Visual USF Cypress Indep South Shore Alter Ego Braddock Mechanicsburg HS Cypress Bay

Fixed ;)

My reply to the OP has already been made. I know who I'd like to be the next new champion, but I won't be saying that it's going to happen for sure. I've been posting on here for a few years - made my predictions - and that's probably not going to change. I like the banter that goes back and forth on these forums. It's fun for me, and I feel like I do a fairly good job (most of the time ) of being decent with my posts. Of course, I may have some seriously rose tinted glasses when viewing my posts, but I don't seem to upset too many people.

I don't know. I remember my glass being half full at the time. I could have sworn she said she liked drum corps. HH

I liked Corona better but I see why it happened. Corona's weapon tricks were out of this world but there were tons of sloppy catches and near misses. Dare I say some of that stuff should have been taken out of the show because guard couldn't nail it every time. Personally I would have placed Zydeco ahead of both of them.

I don't understand why you would want to remove the word art. Even to make a point. To be honest, I don't understand all the fuss over onyx choosing to categorize themselves as a performing artist. Art is, after all, nothing more than a term applied to something with aesthetic value. I'm not sure that we all understand how much art and design fills our every day lives. If onyx or beatrix or sac or bobby sue's twirrlin kittens wanna call what they do art, I say great! The more self respect for what we do, the better.

I'm pretty sure I saw a bunch of very happy Onyx kids after 'Firework' started playing. They probably were told how to act in retreat by their staff. Don't blame the members.

I couldn't predict a blizzard if it was two miles away, but I'm happy to see that OC corps have a chance at the WC championships. I don't see how it's anything but good for Drum Corps and has the added benefit of keeping a few WC corps on their toes.

i have seen camp video on the tube !

Congrats to the MBI winter guard who was a finalist in WGI Independent Open competition this past week at Dayton! This is the ensemble's first year in competition and they spent much of the year in the Independent A class until they got promoted. A great first year! Lets hope some of that good performance comes the drumline's way this weekend as they compete in Percussion Independent Open as well. It is good to see the name of all age drum and bugle corps doing quality work in other arenas. Congratulations!

LMAO best comment!!!!!!!!

Yes, exactly. The corps played an entire song, not just a short excerpt. It may sound boring by today's standards, but there were some really good concert tunes back in those days.

Yours is quite likely the right impression. But far be it from me to stop the unadulterated smiting that's persistent in this thread.

Interesting scheduling there, interesting naming too, firstbeat sum it up pretty well So what conclusion can we draw form these 2 back to back shows one being G-8 the other, non G-8 corps? Do you think the scheduling of the corps and shows is in everyone’s best interest, selling the most seats at the highest prices, highest gross over all? Looking at these shows is interesting The Nightbeat G-8 tickets max at $75 The Firstbeat Monday Night non-G-8 tickets max out of $28 Looks like a lot of the nightbeat corps are in Orlando for nightbeat but only the cavies have a show the night of firstbeat

For the record....Jill and Robby are the most removed instructors in the business when it comes to the WGI political world you refer to in your post. It has been very obvious this season, that a small group of people have been bashing Premonition on this forum. Often times it comes across as a backhanded bashing of NEI. I think the video of Premonition will speak volumes about their place in finals. Focus, Clarity and Intent are all criteria on the judges sheets. No where can I find the bashing and personal comments that I have seen on this forum. At any rate, congratulations to the members of Premonition.

WGI is over folks - stop complaining. The groups that made finals made finals because they were BETTER than the groups that didn't. Simple. Maybe you didn't like it, but the shows got in were clearly better designed (maybe not better performed) and were rewarded accordingly. I also find it interesting that no one seems to complain about the groups in SA, IA, SO, or IO that didnt make finals.... what? those classes dont' matter?? BULL CRAP!!! The A and Open classes (IMO) matter more than the world classes. Without the A and Open groups we wouldn't have anyone coming up to the next level.

then perhaps the sheets are the issue, not the teams.

I hate reading the same old comments in every gd topic...lets move on shall we? The title of the thread is 'Crown 2011' is it not?! Lets leave the bickering to the threads where that's suitable...er...more appropriate? All I'm trying to say is lets stay on topic! SOOO! I cannot wait for the official announcement of the show title and their rep! All this gossip has my mind thinking of so many different ways this show could turn out! Come on Crown...I'm dying here!

No, it won't. The electronics didn't hurt souvie sales in 2009 and 2010, that's for sure. The Old Fart Brigade might not spend money there, but the younger folks will, as proven over the last two years.

I just got an LED TV that's 3D ready...480Hz. Popped in my 2010 DCI blurays for the 1st time....and just wow. Having it on full 480Hz makes motion pictures look weird, but it's AMAZING for real-life/documentary stuff. Seriously, it's closer to being there than I would have ever thought possible. I think 3D might indeed be something worth exploring in a few years for DCI.

Nope - The original post is correct.

Fixed that for you :-) You could arrange that too -- stop watching finals

Hi Ed, Just to let you know I got my new Who'er badge and it looks great. Thanks. Yes, the Buccaneer Alums are so much better then they were just a few years ago. And the Hanover Lancers are the "Best kept secret in Pennsylvania Drum Corps". Bob Zarfoss from the USAF Drum Corps when it was under the baton of Tru Crawford back in the 50s & 60s. I'm sure they will handle their new show quite well.

That would be my preference as well of course but they HAVE already won it twice.

Didn't say it wasn't. I actually said it was. And I wasn't saying that they should get rid of it. Just saying that even without the choreography Crown can march and play #### good. They can be exciting no matter what they put on the field. Their success isn't fully dependent on their body movement. I also said I enjoy the body movement.

Very, very cool technology, I had no idea anything like that existed. I'll wait and see how well it works in the context of the show - they're going to have to be doing some interesting rep for that kind of sound to fit in. On that note, I'm going to get some popcorn and watch this thread blow up.

I will reserve judgement on it until I see it played within the context of the show, and then I'll judge it based on whether or not I think it adds to the show. That being said, I think it's kinda cool.

I agree, they don't. I thought Onyx's book was difficult from what I personally viewed (I was discussing the demand of Onyx's book, though I liked show all in all). Since a lot of people were discrediting Onyx's difficulty, I thought I would state the fact that the show was written by designers that people commonly say have some of the most demanding books, as an example Adam Sage's flag work. I was merely providing a frame of reference.(o:

Since this forum originally asked what Onyx's show is about I'll address that. I don't know, but I personally think the show is about the way people attempt to define and confine art. Hence, the now infamous qoute "They will attempt to destroy anything that differs from their concepts." The show is about playing with and dismantling those predetermined concepts. Personally, I really loved the show (along with Trumbull, Carmel, Alter Ego, Blackwatch, Corona, and Braddock LOVE YOU ALL). As for the earlier comments of "I'd like to know how many people in Onyx can actually perform on a world class level,?" I can answer that question, all of them. As some one pointed out earlier, they're dancing, every world class guard does it. Also, if you watch the show, who's actually spinning usually changes frequently due to the intricate drill book; so most of the members do in fact spin at some point. Going by what I saw on fan network and in person, I think it's clear that they have an incredibly challenging book. Just looking at their website it seems a member of the acclaimed dance company Pilobolus wrote their dance book, and Adam Sage wrote their flag book.

Luckily, I don't care what others think. I like what I like and don't try to dissuade others from liking something different. I don't particularly care what any judge thinks. So thank you, Onyx! And the other shows too :)

It was about rewriting endings that didn't work.

Yes. At one time, all the scientific geniuses in the universities convinced everybody that the earth was flat, despite most of the profs never having personally navigated beyond a few yards at best in a tiny canoe or rowboat up a lazy river. Quite the " experts " they.

Unless youre on DCP then everyones an expert.... : jk

Boy the suspense of who will get the first 75.05 of the season will kill me for two days. I have to buy my tickets to make sure I am there. Will I be able to sleep. Who will have the shows complete by then and be a championship performance.

I too have been a fan of the Academy; the last two seasons in particular. With the right show choice (IMO) this corps can be quite a competitor. I am not so sure about their 2011 show choice....will have to wait and see...

The previous season offered much to be impressed with, both musically and visually. Each corps presented something spectacular and memorable. Now, a half year later, there is one corps that still sticks out for me. Prior to last season I had never seen or heard them perform (although I had heard of them) and as their show came to a close, they had gained a new fan: The Academy. /cheers to the Underdogs - shake the cages and unsettle the kennel again!