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No, blame the corps that is actually using them. Drinking is legal, but we don't blame the government for people who drink and drive.

Predictions? WRONG?! Your display of healthy self-skepticism on the internet confuses and infuriates me.

Top 6, easily.

You start to see comments like these as a defense mechanism from fans who are nervous that you might actually beat their corps. See the same thing with sports fans. Nothing new.

I like Jay Murphy's drill designs, I'm frequently called a fool for liking "non effective" drill. So that gives me many seasons of the Blue Devils but I really like 08,10. Oh... I forgot the mother of love/hate shows: 93 Star is the greatest ever.

1. Cavaliers - 76.50 2. Crown - 74.0 3. madison scouts - 72 4. blue stars - 69.0 5. troopers - 67.85 6. glassmen - 64.0 7. teal sound - 62.0 8. pioneer - 61.0

with the lineup tonight, i'm pulling for a few upsets. crown is my bet to win tonight, it won't be by much, but it will be by enough. they have had more rehearsal days since their last performance. there will be an obvious gap between 2nd and 3rd tonight with 3rd going to madison. and to complete the trifecta (spelling) i'm going with troopers over glassmen. each of these 3 upsets will have a small margin of difference between the 2 corps with a bigger spread coming between the groups. predictions: 1. carolina crown - 75.75 2. the cavaliers - 75.50 3. madison scouts - 71.20 4. blue stars - 70.95 5. troopers - 66.85 6. glassmen - 66.70 7. teal sound - 60.8 8. pioneer - 59.95 ...or i could be totally wrong. :)

I just uploaded some photos from last night, so enjoy. http://www.flickr.com/photos/pepsimanab/collections/72157627036157822/ From a photography standpoint, I didn't like the staging for a lot of the groups last night. Many of the features and solos (guard/perc/etc) were partially hidden by the front panels, hornline plumes, etc. I expect that when I'm standing on the front sideline, but my seat in the front of the bleachers was probably 15-20 feet from the ground.

This is a discussion forum. On forums, people tend to not agree all the time, or ever. Such is life on a place that exists to talk about things. If this vexes you greatly, there's a power button on the front of your computer; feel free to hit that.

So only 3 corps have openers good enough to be in your poll? None of the three mentioned have the best opener.

OK, flame me. Blue Devils 2008 Santa Clara Vanguard 2011 Blue Devils played a tune from one of my all time favorite classic movies, "The Umbrellas of Cherbourg". Was that trumpet glitch intentional? If not, what a recovery. SCV 2011 - Talk about a show with potential and a challenge to the members! Clean it up by late July. Integrate the members trying to escape hell into your theme, disregard the naysayers and you have an all-time classic. IMHO.

Cadets 2007 My favorite show. The narration has never bothered me. What a hornline!!

It seems to me that there is a lot of talk about designing uniforms that "hide" flaws (eg. dark pants with no stripes). Maybe it's because I have a shriveled old brain, but it seems like in the old days, corps used to actually WANT to accentuate their legs with a big bold stripe to show off their marching precision. Whereas, nowadays the goal is to cover up as much as possible. Wouldn't it just make more sense for a corps to wear camouflage so as to hide any possible deficiencies in their ability?

Was somebody transferred recently from The Office of the Dunder Mifflin Paper Co. in Scranton, PA. to the DCI HQ. office ? Lots of screwups on that DCI score site of late.

All those band kids -- every one of whom has a cell phone they use constantly -- and NO FREAKIN UPDATES they're probably just updating their FB statuses...

TheCavaliers The Cavaliers Debuting the full ending tonight at #DCICentralIN in Muncie! #drumcorps

Youth? think about it, there is probably less than 5% of the corps that are not Adults.

Boring reply, Lance--trying to compete with someone for "top poster" honors?

I really don't want to fuel any arguments in this thread, but I did want to point out one thing. I've seen this mentioned a few times about Pioneer, and while I think it's a great thing, I feel like people are also failing to realize that this is a completely different era of drum corps. I've heard stories about various corps' in the 60s and 70s being local only and often resorting to taking kids with little to no experience to fill their ranks. Back then the complexity, especially in drill and movement, doesn't necessarily compare to what we currently see. I'm sure it's not easy to teach someone from scratch regardless of which era of drum corps we are mentioning, but I really feel that the current state of drum corps makes it much, much more difficult to take kids with little to no experience. The very concept of taking kids with no experience in DCI's current state makes it nearly impossible to execute a show of the calibur needed to be even remotely competitive. Please note that I'm not saying anything about what Pioneer should/should not do. I'm not here to argue that, nor am I saying that the sole purpose of a drum corps is to be competitive. I'm just saying that if that's their goal, then I'd think it would be very difficult to accomplish while taking inexperienced members.

I don't see what the hell the problem is............. jkjkjk

Really? Because NO corps in history has ever come from behind to win it all, right? And surely a corps that has been in business for 65 years straight has NO idea how to pull it together and achieve success in field competition, right? And finishing in 5th place a few times is a totally wasted season, right? Give me a break. As you said - you weren't there. Do you know what still needs to be completed in their show? Do you know what they did well and what needed work? For that matter, are you sure Bucs show is "complete?" What about what they did right and wrong? You never cease to amaze me at your expertise considering corps you have not seen.

No, it won't. Slippery slope arguments are extremely tenuous and unlikely to be true, especially ones as distant as the kind of connection you're trying to make. If "Creep" can be played on the radios during the day time (the offending portion, anyway), it can be played as part of a drum corps show. Hell is not real swear anyway -- even DCP doesn't censor it, and DCP censors some pretty #### stupid stuff. No one needs to be censoring any corps. They know very well what they can and can't get away with -- the word "Hell" doesn't even really make anyone over the age of 10 giggle anyway, and for those under the age of 10, I'm sure they'll manage. Most people allow their children to watch fairly mature movies that are considered film classics, despite perhaps having a strong word or two. If you're a parent and you're REALLY that worried about your child's virgin ears, I'd be more worried about what the other showgoers are saying than the corps' monitors. In fact, Hell is a key word to explaining what SCV's show is about. :P

Because a whole lot of folks (incorrectly IMO) assume if Scouts are top 8 this year they will thumb their noses at being a TOC corps and decline involvement. I can say one thing for sure, if Scouts DO make top 8 this year and join the TOC (if it continues in 2012), there will be a hefty amt of Scouts fans re-evaluating their opinions of the TOC.

Yeah, I guess that's the main thing for me. DCI corps have their strengths (visual, etc.) All-age corps have their strengths (more personality, etc.) A joint marketing venture is a great thing. But it doesn't mean the products on the field should be the same. IMO, corps in both circuits should focus on their strengths and not try to be "just like the other guys".... both ways. That would make the marketing tie-in even more powerful, I would think. Drum corps, two different ways. Take your pick, or enjoy both for what they bring to the table. Win-win for everyone. If NASCAR and Formula One joined together in a marketing agreement... you would have a marketing powerhouse, but still two completely different styles of racing. That's a good thing, IMO. Plus, I guess I'm a bit of a purist when it comes to a championship. I think that should be the end of the season, for all intents and purposes. Corps A wins a "DCA Championship" in early August. Then Corps B beats Corps A at the next few shows after the "championship." To me, that kind of takes the luster off that championship. Just my opinion.

Did you read the whole thread ? There were several great discussions going on inbetween the BS.

This morning after the wife and kids headed off for the school run, I decided to have a quick look at "my corps" show this year. I'd read the first review and was intrigued about the requiem and Empire State of Mind "lay down". So As I sipped my coffee, I thought, I'll have a quick look. After a solid introductory statement I thought , "cool - like that " and then started to enjoy the journey I was be pulled into, it was wonderful, music and imagery some blatent some subtle. I stopped sub conciously thinking is this technical or ground breaking ( has anyone watched a broadway show and thought - wow that was difficult ?) .. then came the suggestions around 9-11 which i found facinating. It was almost written that if you didn't know the link or didn't want to enter that thought that you would still enjoy it and it still fitted with the show.. but if you did, and I which I choose to do, left you with the feeling that you were seeing a piece of art work which hinted at fragments and the rest was left to your mind.. i liked that. Then came Requiem...WOW.. what astounded me from this point on was 1. How a writer could so beautifully portray a series of emotions through the arrangement of requiem into the hope building , heart booming, air punching finale, and 2. How these young musicians could communicate this in their performance at such an age and time of the year. SO I dissapeared into another world this morning - I laughed, danced in my chair, I cheered and cried Thanks Madison Scouts - I get it !! (sorry if thats not a real review )

So, you're saying add more cowbell? j/k Bluecoats will be fine. This is the show they wanted to do, so let them do it. They will make edits, tweaks, and may even cut some things as the season progresses. But they also have to clean. They are starting to score well, so they should be fine this year. Top 3, not sure about that, even with changes. Top 5, sure, I can see that.

Pioneer is the only WC corps I can think of that's still willing to take kids off the street and train them from square one. That is NOT a lack of leadership. I would say that it's quite to the contrary and I for one salute them for it.

cavaliers 2005. alot of people i know never cared for that show. i loved it!

GO REGIMENT!

Unless we are the years 1920 to 1933.

I watched the Texas show on FN........I find BD's musical book to be very enjoyable this year, and I believe they have a talented corps. I don't think they are quite as clean out of the gate as they have been, but they have a veteran staff, and the corps will execute very well in the near future. I do think it is a wide open race this year......they could win....they could be 5th.........however, I think some are over-reacting in a big way just because they are not winning at the moment. GB

Oh Happy Days. The judges awarded first place to the Blue Devils last year made so many "people happy" that it couldn't prevent hundreds of thousands of 'em from doing cartwheels and backflips with giddyup happiness. Speaking of setting up of the cards, is that a full deck you have there ?

This. After having watched the show multiple times now, it's quite obvious that there are massive changes in store for the end of the show. Right now the ending just does not fit the rest of the show and seems like an ending for the sake of ending the show, nothing more. It goes very simplistic and slow drill wise compared to the rest of the program. My guess is that they wanted to put a complete show on the field and spend the rest of the summer working on a complete "package". And let's be real for a moment...this all-star staff didn't suddenly forget how to do this. Jim Mason and Co. are masters of showmanship. You can trust that they'll get it done.

Thread = Hijacked

While I agree with you that it is literally impossible (and wrong) for a judge to even try to credit how a show "might" end at some point, what constitutes a "complete" show? Cavaliers stopped marching the last, what, 60 seconds of their show but if they performed the full allotted time it is equally wrong for DCI to assume the show is 'incomplete' just because there is no drill. It is probably/likely incomplete, but that is a design judgement call: and regardless, Cavaliers STILL played their full show, so only parts of the show are incomplete (and EVERYONE'S show is partially incomplete in June). If a worker completes his task an hour or two early and does an exemplary job, and his co-workers work a full 'shift' but do a sloppy job, in the vast majority of the business world the employee who did the exemplary will get more credit every time: quality not quantity. But this is a bit different, as test-taking is a right or wrong, definitive thing. A more apt comparison would be an essay question on a standardized test, where often a short but concise essay will be better constructed and more thought out than a long, rambling essay that took twice as long to construct. Either way, judging 101 dictates that a judge can ONLY adjudicate what is presented to him, and not what isn't there: a show might feel incomplete w/out the last 50 seconds of visual design, but still be superior to everyone else for the other 11 minutes performed: if nothing else you could maybe argue Cavaliers spread would've been HIGHER had their show been complete because their show is maybe just THAT good.

I disagree. I think the whole G8 slotting system within the World Class Division ( slotting based upon what a Corps does in previous years competitions ) positively blows. It's unprecedented in the annals of competitive sport. No other example can be pointed to where what you have done in past years competition positions you more favorably in competition for the following year, or conversely, disadvantages you this year in competition based upon what transpired in previous year's competition. If you come into this season as a member of the G8 it's great. If you come into this season not a member of the G8 its the pits, and a " bad thing " every which way to Sunday, imo.

SCV '99 was hated? I don't think so.

Here's my deal on it. Does he show have a lot of room for improvement, yes, and they will. That being said. The visual program at the end of the show is lacking, I agree. However, have those of you criticizing it put any thought into the fact that they have a complete show on the field, something some of the "Top 6" very rarely have done in the last 10 years or so at this point of the season. Do you know that this is the production design they will be using all the way until the end of the season? When I marched in '99, we performed 4 versions of our ballad in Jesus Christ Superstar before the finals version was fully realized. We also started the closer that year with our cross to star drill combo as the intro to the closer. Then learned the version you see on video, while still performing the old one until the new version was cleaner. My point is it is absurd to say they're out of the hunt because the show needs to grow. Saying it's a late 80's/early 90's show comes off to me as a point of someone who doesn't watch a great deal of drum corps. The whole big drums on the field, really? That's not something we can see anymore because it's "old." Hmmm. The emotion thing...are looking for sterile boring programs that leave us wanting to feel more. Call me old school, but I would like if more corps, if not most corps had something that I could feel in their show. I would much rather that than some fancy drill and articulated brass music that doesn't stretch beyond mezzo forte. If I wanted that, I would watch some of the original shows the Cavaliers put out...but come to think of it, they're not doing that anymore either? ? Sorry, just my thoughts. If we're going to argue points about when a show comes from, let's maybe do a little more research though so that our comments make sense and aren't just over-generalizing a few things people did 20 years ago.

I can't wait for the 2nd show to shut this thread down

And that point seems to prove itself almost every year.

How will the glassmen and scouts match up against the blue stars? BOA shows always a fun one because the kids go ape #### for anything.

The best thing Bluecoats could do would be to drop the sampled voice. It's distracting and mostly just makes people giggle.

I agree, Jim. Plus, at that point in early August, the DCA corps aren't yet in "championship form" due to the weekend-only nature of the product. And in a dual championship format, the DCA corps would seemingly always be taking a back seat to the DCI corps. At any championship.... DCI or DCA... I would think the entire focus should be on those corps in that particular circuit.... not a bright spotlight on one set of corps and a dimmer spotlight on another. The marketing tie-in is a great idea... like others have said, overdue. Hats off to Gil and Dan and whoever else was involved in getting this done. But I hope it doesn't lead to DCA corps mimicking the DCI product (for lack of a better phrase) and becoming, for all intents and purposes, weekend-only DCI corps.

Not on the list....

Okay, so here are my brief thoughts from the Saginaw show: SCV: Wow, I was really disappointed with this show. I had read all of the bad stuff on here about their "doom" this year, and thought that I would love the show because I loved their show last year. Nope. It was a total mess, and I (like many others, apparently) cannot figure out for the life of me why the judges scored them above the Blue Stars. I thought their drill shows some potential if they clean it up, and percussion is good, but the music is just awful, in my opinion. Blue Stars: I really liked this show a LOT! I read all the stuff on here about how they had WAY too much synth and was really worried. I actually liked all of the synth in their show, even the "bassoon" sounds. I was a little skeptical when they started the "techno-ish beat" in a later piece, but I thought they made it work and it actually stuck in my head and I was humming this part later! Their drill is great, their percussion kicks butt like last year, and they have an engaging "presence". I will say that the scaffolding was pretty distracting and I really didn't see the point of it, but overall, I really, really liked this show. BlueCoats: I really enjoyed this show a lot. The "Where the hell am I?" section was just stupid and unnecessary. It should have said, "Why the hell are we playing stupid synthesized sound effects in this show?" Anyway, that aside, I really enjoyed this show. I loved the opening with "Creep" by Radiohead. Very cool. Also liked body movements in the form during this opening section. Too bad you can't see much of the drill for the ballad on the fan network due to the positioning of the camera...I do think their drill (that I DID see) needs a lot of work. It is too simplistic, and there are a couple of points in the show where they park and bark for too long. As for this show being the "same" as last year's show? There are some obvious similarities/repeats of moves, and some of them work (side to side step used in the end of the opener/show last year during the big chord) and some don't (whole corps floating the large formation quickly as used last year in the closer.) One thing is for sure: This corps is nice and solid and should be a joy to see come finals. Phantom Regiment: Well, what can I say? I loved Phantom's show last year, but this year, so far, it just doesn't really do it for me. I do really enjoy much of it, especially the second piece. The sections where the hornline is doing the call and answer back and forth is really great, in my opinion. It just feels like their drill has gone down quite a bit in intricacy since last year. Of course, with the beast of a drill they had last year, that is to be expected. Plus, that frenetic of a drill probably would not fit very well with most of the show. The piece right after the ballad does not seem to fit with the "feel" of the rest of the show. It is "fun" and I like it, but it doesn't seem to fit. Plus, the ending of this piece is almost exactly like the ending to their 2008 ballad (not that that's necessarily a bad thing.) Overall, I really enjoyed this show and hope they do very well. That ending will most certainly change, and hopefully they will have a more competitive product. It just seems like they have been out-done in the drill department this year by far too many. The Cadets: Okay. Again, I had read all the WOWZ! TEH CADETS ARE TOTALLY GONNA PWN THIS YEAR! posts on here, so I expected to have my socks knocked off. I have to say that most of the hype is justified for this show. A really great show for the cream/burgundy team. Some things of note: They are almost the opposite of Phantom in regards to drill. Lots and lots of fast movement with cool effects and such. The opening statement does a lot to build the excitement, and I wasn't at all bothered by the "singing" in the beginning, to my huge surprise. They obviously have a lot of demand in their program and are executing pretty well for this time of year (especially for the Cadets.) The drum battle is cool, and they pull a Phantom 96 with the metal poles, a very nice effect although I think it goes on for just a little bit too long. After this section, when the corps goes into the block, and right after the "angels" point into the sky, it sounds like they are playing the opener from Bluecoats' show last year (nothing necessarily bad about that.) Also, listen in the pit when the guard is just about finished spinning these poles, and you will hear the same cymbal crash phrase they used in their 1998 show, "Stonehenge" at least, that's what I heard... The ballad confused me. For one, the "demons" are playing the doxology, or "Praise God from whom all blessings flow" or "Awake, my soul, and with the sun" if you want to be technical. The problem? The lyrics to this are as follows: "Praise God, from whom all blessings flow; Praise Him, all creatures here below; Praise Him above, ye heavenly host; Praise Father, Son, and Holy Ghost." So, I was wondering why "demons" would be playing this since they are against God. Then I heard a "wrong" note, exaggeratedly wrong, in fact. Was this supposed to be the "demons" trying to mock God? At any rate, I didn't get it. If the "angels" and "demons" were supposed to be switching roles for this section, the "angels" would have played something "evil", like Iron Maiden or at least Justin Beiber Instead, they play "Amazing grace" of which I did not really care for due to the arrangement. It wasn't bad, I just didn't really care for it that much. From this point, things seem to lose steam for a bit, and it all seems a little jumbled. The ending is way cool though, with the integrated wave drill and such. I thought the girl in the long white flowy robe was overly cheesy, and this is from high cam only. I mean, what kind of a roundhouse kick was that? If Chuck Norris roundhouse kicked the devil, the devil would instantly be destroyed. Maybe that's what they need, is for Chuck Norris to come in at the end and fight the devil. Of course, it wouldn't be much of a fight, and would thus be anti-climatic. And no, I don't care if you are tired of Chuck Norris jokes. This show may win it all come finals. Who knows? (except Chuck Norris, of course.) Blue Devils: The phrase, "Man, they can really rotate a block!" takes on new meaning as the 3 bazillion time champions take the field. Okay, so they are rotating "cubes", but I couldn't resist the joke. I was excited to hear that Blue Devils were deciding to play actual melody this year. I was not excited to hear that it was Burt Bachrach. Too bad...Anywho, I don't hate this show, which is a big step up from my opinion of last year's show. Okay, I am going to try my best to love this show. I am going to watch it as many times I can on fan network to become familiar with the music. But for now, I have to say the following: They have too many stinking props on the field. When did this activity turn into BOA for the Devils? Where are the Blue Devils that played actual exciting tunes like "Johnny one note" and "Ya gotta try"? I will take what I can get in the music department for now, since this is a big step up from last year. The problem? Visually they look very cluttered and un-Blue Devil-ish. It's a far cry from the clean precision we are used to from them. The props don't help any. I was pretty bored throughout this show, and that makes me sad. I was really wanting to like this show, and I will keep trying throughout the season, as I mentioned earlier, but right now this is all just "meh" for me. The "house" they build at the end looked terrible. I think this was due to wind conditions and hopefully will not continue to be a problem. If Chuck Norris were in the Blue Devils, he could just carry an actual house onto the field at the end. Another show made better by Chuck Norris. Cavaliers: A lot of people on here were going nuts for this show also, and I think most of that was probably justified as well. I don't love this show, but it is very well done. I have to say that I HATE the electronic voice samples that are played throughout the show. They sound like garbage, and they do absolutely nothing to add to the program (other than adding garbage.) In fact, the synthesized voice recording, when it is played after the drum feature piece is very, very distracting and completely throws you (me) out of the "mood" of the show. And just what IS the theme of this show, anyway? What is the "story" or "concept"? I know it's "eXtraordinarY", but why? The stilt walker was weird, but not really cool. All he does is walk around. ZZZ... When I read about the upside-down tenor feature, I thought Cavies had bought those old racks from Les Etoiles and were gonna use those. I actually think the way the Cavaliers do it is cooler. A very awesome moment, indeed. In one part of the show (second piece, I believe), the corps plays and then there is silence and they "whoop" like monkeys, or something. I thought this was pretty funny and I liked it. I don't know what music they are playing, but in several parts of the show, it sounded like they were playing bits from past Cavies shows. That being said, I enjoy the music this year a lot more than I did last year. I thought that the screamers sounded terrible at this show, both in the opening statement, and the climax of the third piece (the one where they basically do the same thing they did with the 3 screamers last year, except no mics as far as I could see/hear.) But hey, it's VERY early and I'm sure they will have it together by August. Their ending piece sounds like Glassmen's opener from back in 1995 at points. They stand for WAY too long at the end of their show and just play. It's almost as if they hadn't learned the ending drill yet. I'm kidding. I know they hadn't. Anyway, Cavaliers have a real shot (again) to take the title. I wouldn't be the least bit disappointed if they did, either. Carolina Crown: WOW! I absolutely loved this show, from the pre-show right down to the very end! This is by far my favorite show of the year. I truly came in expecting it to be awful, especially when I read all the posts on here about how "cheesy" the show was. I thought it was extremely enjoyable, both musically and visually. I'm not a big fan of the props on the field, but I guess it helps to portray the theme although that's a pretty weak excuse. There was one point in the opener where I could hear an "electric guitar" playing under the corps, and it just didn't seem to fit or sound right. Other than that, I can't think of any moments where I wasn't transfixed by the music and how cleverly arranged it was, intermixing classical and rock. I actually got a huge grin on my face when they came back with the bohemian rhapsody at the end of their ballad, rhapsody on a theme of paganinininininininini <---I wasn't sure how to spell it and was too lazy to look it up, so there's that. Anyway, it made me smile because I loved how they integrated the two. I also heard a bit of "Ironman" in there somewhere (not in the ballad), which was nice. And who's picture is that in the form at the beginning of "Paint it black"? Could it be...satan? ($1.00 to Dana Carvey) I thought paint it black was awesome, synthesized music and all. Although, the ensemble wasn't quite together at the big entrance after the piano "solo", it was still amazing, in my opinion. I liked the "guitar" formation here as well, though I thought they parked there for way too long (although they were playing some incredibly tough stuff.) The horn movements on their knees was great also, giving much GE. I do kind of wish they had decided to open with "Eruption" and close with "Bohemian Rhapsody", but I did appreciate the bits of "Kashmere" (spelling?) in "Eruption" (assuming that was intended.) Anyway, I will be shocked if they don't place in the top two this year, but I don't really care either way because I just love this show! Can't wait to watch it on bluray! Final notes: We seem to have Hell as a theme throughout the corps this year. You have SCV with "The devil's staircase", you have Cadets with "Angels and DEMONS", Bluecoats "Where the hell am I?", and you have Crown with flames on their drums and they make "satan" in their drill. I thought it would be funny if during SCV's show Crown's basses somehow got stuck in their drill. I can hear them now: "Dude...this is NOT righteous..."

I'd say these four in particular are not hated by any means. And bring me the ####### HEAD of anyone who hates Caravan!

YES. I so agree! BD 1999 also. I don't know if it's hated, but I hardly ever hear anything about it. The "Powerhouse" piece was absolutely incredible. Ahh! Just writing/thinking about this show makes me want to listen to it again. It's so good & my all time-favorite!

Hey! Is this the thread where we talk about how smart we are and what schools we went to and what post-graduate degrees we have? I WANT TO PLAY!

Yup. I STILL love how people who haven't even been to a show can be experts on what a corps is doing "wrong" and how to "fix" it. They seem to know what is going on at every corps' camps. (Must be racking up the frequent flyer miles...)