Leaderboard

What I'm saying is this: if a former member of another corps has the heart, drive, and talent required to earn a spot in the corps, they should earn the spot in the corps over someone who lacks - or has less of - those qualities even with prior history in the corps. All things being equal, the former member retains their spot. However, nothing is ever equal.

I'm going to effectively hijack this thread because it's about to die anyway. I'll get back to FTL in a bit. Plan, my friend, if you want to know how warped I am, I've spent the last week thinking about your phobia, not because it's you, per se, but because it's about drum corps. I've been stewing on a what's wrong with your brain - "how do I look at the world through Plan's eyes?" kind of way. I've tried to consider my positions from a "I hate BD" perspective, and I can't. I simply don't hate BD. Yet, you consistently, over may threads, have posited this position that all of the discussions about what's good or bad about the activity reduces down to a lowest common denominator that I do, in fact, hate BD. I hate that they won. I hate their show design. I hate that others follow them (although they are dam-ed to never succeed, say you). I hate where they're leading the activity. On and on. Worse, you contend that this phenomenon only happens to BD. That it's not "the leader", it's BD. If we have anything negative to say about BD, it's because we HATE BD! (dagnabbit!) What intrigues me is not that I might actually hate BD and therefore believe in FTL and other theories. I know I don't hate BD. It's not that you think everyone hates a winner, because you claim it doesn't happen to any other winner. What sticks at me is that you think that the only answer can possibly be that I hate BD. Maybe I need more wine, maybe I need more time to reflect. But I don't think so. I've never hated ANY corps! I don't think I'm alone in that either. I've considered that other winners have gotten hate posts but you continue to say that it's only BD. I don't get it, Plan. I'm not qualified to pass judgement on the source of this everyone-hates-BD phobia of yours, but I suspect it's a disease called "Rabidius Fandomium", and I could never hold you in contempt for your opinion with that disease. But I don't know how else to describe the malady other than as plagued by excessive self consciousness and, possibly, sensitivity towards any criticism, constructive or otherwise, of YOUR corps. It's surely not that you lack confidence in your position. I don't hate BD, Plan. And every thread I start or in which I comment is not coming from the position that I hate them. I enjoyed their drill in '10, I love, Loved, LOVED the mirrors! It was the music that made me puke, but I still didn't hate them. I didn't like Cadets' offerings of The Door and The Poor-is-Me, fireside chat show, but I didn't hate them. I love them today like I did 25 years ago. Your positions seem to follow that same line of thinking, and I'd like for you to think of a discussion from a non-defensive position and grant me that I may simply not like something about BD, or others, without claiming that I have deep-seated hatred for a corps. It's just not true. FTL is a definable, verifiable fact that you did a pretty good job of validating with your prior post. It's all those things. FTL is a natural inclination that takes effort to fight; the "Me Too" syndrome that marks the slow death of creativity. Amps, props, chop and bops, they are all the product of a corps naturally trying to find that mix that gets them to the trophy table regardless of who did them the year before. In recent years, and because of the FTL attitude, I have, rightly IMO, held the "top corps" responsible for the direction they pull the activity - I had 7 corps to "hate" last year - and the MC project was an obvious admission by DCI that I was not alone in that belief. However he influenced the corps it was, most certainly, from a position of "be yourself" and not "We're tired of BD winning all the time." I'm glad this year was not replete with chop-and-bop horn books; but I would feel the same way whether or not it was BD, or Cadets, or Boston that happened to be in the leadership position of DCI corps. I simply don't agree with the programming direction. MC and the judges are working to eliminate FTL, not prevent BD from putting on crazy shows, or winning. In fact, I "hate" the corps that subscribe to FTL as much, or more, than the "leaders" with whom I disagree. I think they're foolish for abandoning their own, unique style to FTL. I disagree, but I don't hate them. FTL exists because of "group think", a desire to win, a crappy judging system, and lack of guts.. It takes more guts, in my opinion, for a corps to hold to it's true values than it does to buy fifteen massive mirrors just 'cause BD won with them in 2010. The MC project, I believe, is a reinforcement of that desire for diversity (while they fix the sheets to reward it better). The MC project is not the outgrowth of a "We Hate BD!" attitude. I hate FTL and the circumstances that reward and propagate it. I don't hate BD.

Both phantoms will be top 6. The one in Rockford and the one in Santa Clara.

Don't worry my man, there are many who are excited right now.

Crown is a G7 corps; they aren't in too much trouble. However, one could say that Crown just got "ROCKed" and lost its "STARs."

So, why are you excluding the first back to back, 73 & 74 SCV?!

Those few brave souls who still write reviews, are to be commended. The comments about the Kilties were not mean spirited at all. It was an honest and thoughtful review, in MY opinion. (and I am a Kiltie).

You are looking at this leader/follower issue at the incorrect angle. It is not a corps to corps issue but an organization to organization situation. DCI is now following the conceptual lead of BOA instead of BOA following the lead of DCI. Some here defend this by calling BOA the "testing ground" for the DCI staff; but nevertheless this conceptual stuff is on the BOA cutting edge first, which thus makes BOA the leader and DCI the follower.

The Velvet Knights Drum & Bugle Corps is pleased to announce the addition of Alex Herrera, as percussion co-caption head for it's 2012 season. Alex will join the team alongside Ernie McLaurin, who not only returns as assistant corps director, but as percussion co-caption head. Alex has been the caption head and designer for the WGI PIO Valley Independent. He is a graduate of FIDM, with a degree in fashion design. His marching experience includes the Santa Clara Vanguard, and Black Knights. We are very proud to have Alex on board, and looking forward to a very successful 2012 season.

I was actually rooting for both corps. We already have The Cadevaliers, now we have the Phanguard.

Go PHANGUARD!!!!!!!!!

Yep, and if you can't distinguish between the superficial aspects of drum corps (the shows, the instrumentation, etc.) and what REALLY makes drum corps unique (the experience), leave. I'm done here. Have a lovely evening.

I see nothing wrong with "some" artistic license to be taken with ANY arrangement... Of course it was originally a British drinking song. I have heard many arrangements and some of my favorite which would not be considered "straight" were from the civil war era, but then it was not officially adopted as our national anthem yet....it was not adopted as the national anthem until 1931... But I agree...heck I'll bet there are enough horn players hanging around that wouldn't mind stepping out to play it prior to any show....

Funny, I knew that was going to be the instant response and yes I'll grant that your point has merit. That being said, I moved from NH to march Madison with the 27th Lancers right in my own backyard. Loyalty matters and if the very bedrock principle that binds your corps together is "brotherhood" and "Once a Scout, Always a Scout" then the idea of importing talent at the expense of current members is hypocrisy defined.

Not in my book but I’m so old that I remember when corps-hopping was a rarity…non-existent actually compared with today. Hmmm, why could that be? Here’s my theory; I think that loyalty is a two-way street and that if the corps is willing to cut a vet loose the moment a hot new prospect shows up then it stands to reason that disloyalty will be reciprocated when an opportunity to “upgrade” presents itself to the vet. The case could even be made that as an alumn I might just consider my loyalty fickle enough to say “Heck, the Cavies are five or six placements higher than Madison so that’s where I’ll be sending my donations from now on.” Now I’d never do that but that’s precisely because I bought into the whole “brotherhood” deal and as I see it you just don’t cut your brother from the line because someone with faster hands shows up from Crown now do you?

Absolutely beautiful! Very moving and well written as always! Hugs!!

Applauds

A couple of days ago, Red Corso told me that 2011 was the best DCA championship he's been involved in. For those that don't know him, Red is well into his 80s, and has been DCA's treasurer since 1974. Now, that's quite a statement coming from a guy with that depth of experience, who is STILL one of the driving forces behind what DCA is -TODAY- . A whole LOT changed in DCA this year. Some of it fans could see, and some they couldn't. Even I look back on the things we did, and I am amazed that we pulled off what we did in one season. I am the youngest member of the DCA board, and am a career IT professional. We got the live web cast of prelims going in a WEEK. 7 days after we reached a contractual agreement, we had the thing beaming into people's houses. If someone had asked me to pull that off at work, I'd still be laughing. This was also the very first DCA championship where the judges did not use cassette recorders. It was all digital. Within minutes of a corps finishing their show, corps' staff members were listening to the judges comments on their iPhones, Droids, Laptops, etc. For those that criticize our partnership with DCI this year, they loaned us the recorders that our judges used. I had to cook up a system to make it work, tested it in Scranton, and then just said "what the hell, let's go for it". Of course, I had a case of cassette tapes standing by just in case :) . The stuff on the jumbotron, all being directed by Mike Symonds and the little instant replay clips he showed as each corps left the field. The "Time of My Life" video played while the corps stood on retreat in the pouring rain and cheered wildly at it anyway ... Mike and his crew cooked that up the day before. A bunch of computers running in tabulation room - Mike and I and Steve Anderman in a chat room orchestrating everything... As soon as a prelim score was official, it was beamed out as a text message to every corps director. This enabled corps to do their prelim show and get outta Dodge and go about the rest of their plan for the day, instead of wasting time hanging around the stadium waiting to hear where they were going to end up... the web site being continually updated ... scores going out by Twitter ... That's just some of the technology stuff that happened. Other stuff in 2011 ... A new judging system weighted heavily toward entertainment... Dan Rippon completely rewrote the tabulation software that not only calculates the score, but generates the score sheet for the announcer and automatically lists who won what captions. We hammered the corps directors over and over in the off season telling them not to have their designers out-design the other designers, but design for the people in the stands. I'll stop here, the list is large. Ok, I know this thread is about Cadets 2. If they compete in DCA, I believe it'll be the first time a corps enters our circuit with an upper age limit. Another first for DCA. We HAVE had corps with bottom age limits before. Some corps didn't allow women in their corps. DCA is still here. I would also like to remind everyone that DCA is an association of its members. No single individual in this organization is greater than any other. Our corps are weekend warriors, at each other's throats on the competition field every weekend in the summer, and in the off-season, are a tight collection of people who ALWAYS act in the best interest of the collective. No particular corps or person is going to revolutionize anything on his or her own. None of our member corps are going to roll over for any other one. They never have, and they never will. STOP THE CHICKEN LITTLE STUFF :) I am looking forward to seeing Cadets 2 on the field. Its another drum corps for DCA, and more drum corps is never a bad thing. And now we're moving into a new city, in a new stadium with a press box as big as my house. So look at all the new stuff that happened in 2011. I think we can survive a new corps with an age cap, don't you? And that's my annual diatribe on Drum Corps Planet. Glen

I'd like to share with you something I wrote shortly after the attack ... A SKYLINE ALTERED (September 2001) Oh, beautiful, For spacious sky, Whose wonders make me ask why. It's shattered peace, And broken scape, Has made me sit and cry. For brothers lost, And sisters missing, I wonder as I pray. What type of beast, Could have possibly planned, This most destructive day. My skyline, Has been altered, And will never be the same. My spirit, Has been burdened, With great sorrow and pain. The skyline, I'm sure, Will rise from the ashes, In all its brilliance again. Just as those we loved, Rose to Heaven, To be with the great I AM. ... Remembering Steve and Harvey Harrell - FDNY (OLPH Ridgemen & NY Skyliners) on this 10th anniversary

If they want to survive they have to get new blood in. It's that simple. But they have to also accept that new blood means questioning the status quo. This may have been the way it was done for all eternity. I'm not saying keeping some traditions are bad. Throwing the baby out with the bath water is far different than the crowd throwing babies. What I am saying is if somethings can change to encourage people to join or remain in any corps, as opposed to leaving, is that a positive end result?

Don't be so sure about #10. I just saw some breaking news on The Weather Channel and they've got some guy strapped to a lamp post in a slight drizzle in East Africa talking about a low pressure system that's going to turn into a hurricane, that'll hit the East Coast of the U.S. in early September of 2012. Obviously it's a slow news day for them.

It seems that most of the "follow the leader" mentality seems to be exhibited by lower tier corps, copying the style, music, programs or whatever of the top corps. For example, take the whole electronics thing...ALL the corps went out and got electronics, because the top corps had them, even though it had (and still has) absolutely NO bearing on their score since the electronics and use or misuse isn't scored. For a year or two after voice was allowed, the Cadets used a narration-heavy program; several lower tier corps followed suit the following year, until they all came to the brilliant conclusion that their audience hated it. A trend now for several years, but most annoying this past season, is the whole "pre-show" nonsense. Now EVERYBODY has to have a "pre-show". "Pre-shows" or "running starts" aren't anything new, I've been following drum corps for nearly twenty years and it used to be that you would see one every two or three years. IMO, the pre-show confuses the show announcers, the judges, and the audience-especially the once-a-year locals who make many small shows such a success. For a good number of years, the top corps played obscure music that only applealed to the judging community...the judging community rewarded it, so lower tier corps followe suit until we had some seasons where you could barely recognize anything being played. Somewhere along the line, the light bulb went on that this wasn't attracting new fans in droves and was in fact driving away existing ones, and corps went back to designing fan-friendly shows; 2011 is the best example of that since I can remember. Unfortunately, some of the lower tier corps haven't caught up with that yet and are still designing programs that are boring to the audience and quite frankly beyond the capabilities of their members. As a member of an alumni corps, one time I asked our instructors why we couldn't use a tune that BD had played three or four seasons previous-the instructor asked me how many horns BD had? and how many do WE have? THERE'S your answer. The long and short of it, follow the leader doesn't necessarily win titles-corps designing, executing, and cleaning the #### out of their product is what wins championships. No offense intended, but I don't think the Mandarins or Pio is quite ready to pull off a "Through the Glass Darkly" program. Design a program that is within your members talent level to learn and clean, and the scores will take care of themselves. Listen to the audiences-the most popular corps and the one that gets the most applause usually ISN'T the champion.

I'm going to give some of the usual, and some new 1) whoever scores highest wins 2) someone will complain about #1 3) Fran will brag about his commute 4) Fran will wear hideous shirts 5) the seafood in Annapolis will be incredibly good 6) people who complained about the long drive to Rochester won't, while people who didnt have far to go to get to Rochester will complain about the longer drive 7) Renegades 8) Someone will stay say they had too long to drive 9) Reviews will be posted and someone will take offense 10) it will be a great weekend in Annapolis

Agreed. I am sure the remaining members of the Scouts will enjoy having a better group as a result. Why would you not want to improve your team? Hey, Kobe Bryant is a free agent and wants to come to your team, but you don't want him to take Johnny Nojumper's spot because he is already on the team?!?!?!?!

finals prediction Just for fun of course. MBI Cadets 2 kidsgrove Buccs empire Cabs Hurcs Briggs Alliance Carolina Gold

I can think of a few brown streaks in DCI history.....

-St. Ignatius ( All Girls) DCI's first 3 peat 75,76 and 77 ( DCI's All girl Championship didn't start until 1975 but St. Ignatius was the dominate girl corps of 1974 and arguably 1973) -Mandarins ( Div 3) DCI's only 4 peat 96,97,98 and99 ( 2nd in 95)

There is no ethical issue, because neither Scouts nor DCI tried to hide the fact that ESOM wouldn't be included. In fact, they've been nothing but above board in making sure people knew that possibility existed. If you choose not to buy the DVD because ESOM isn't there, that's completely on you. Neither Madison nor DCI has done anything wrong. At all.

Then those corps will die, and few will even care. Before I go any further, I want to make one thing very clear...I have noting but respect and appreciation for what alumni corps then their members do. They get to perform, and in some way keep alive drum corps of the distant past. I get that, and again, respect and appreciate it. That being said, alumni corps as a whole has absolutely no appeal to me at all. I am 43 years old. I marched DCI from 1984-1989 (after being a fan for two years or so). After teaching in the 90's, I marched DCA in 2004 and 2005. Current alumni corps, save one, do absolutely nothing for me. I'm simply not interested in seeing and hearing them perform, but I get that others do. And that's cool. The only corps that appeals to me at all, that I go out of my way to see and hear, and would ever consider joining, is the Bridgemen. Why? Because they are the only corps that is relevant to my interests. And believe this....I am not alone. The number of folks that feel like I do is legion. If the rest of the alumni corps don't evolve and cater to a younger crowd, they will die. The competing corps are learning this lesson (some better than others). I'm sure that there are many who will be insulted by this and think I'm the devil. That's fine. If they refuse to open their eyes and ears to the truth, neither I or anyone else can do much for 'em. Side note: I also recognize that the Reading Alumni play music that spans the entire history of the corps. That makes them very enjoyable as well, especially considering I am an alumnus of the competing corps. Cabs Alumni also have been enjoyable to me at times, they have something the other alumni corps, save Bridgemen, don't have. Timeless appeal and the ability to perform at a higher level.

Pictures at an Exhibition... Buccaneers would be great for this. Especially with the bring-the-house-down "Great Gate Of Kiev" finale.

This thread is exactly why people don't take the time to do reviews anymore.

... or just beginning, depending upon one's point of view.

I feel it's all part of our modern quick fix mentality. You don't "feel" your appreciated, listened to, or you have an artistic spat with another designer.....you move on, instead of working through it and developing a professional relationalship with balance. Or....you get voted off the island! Creative balance comes from sticking it out though the rough spots....."what does not kill you, makes you stronger". In many ways, this is the best lesson these staff members can pass along to their young corps members, as they demonstrate how to successfully contribute to the whole in a way that honors the efforts of the entire team. To build something that is the result of cooperation and free exchange of ideas. Believe me, they'll see the other side of that soon enough, when they move into the working world! And BTW, if a 20th place corps gets there though organizational loyalty, cooperation, free exchange of ideas, demonstrated work ethic, mutual respect and "working through the problems without quiting".......that 20th place will be more valuable to those young people than any title. Now back to the frantic search!

good, he can finish cleaning last year's show.

? What, exactly, was 'rebellious' about anything Madison did in 2011? Scatter-drill? Playing a pop song? (fail - Devils' whole show was a pops fest, and a lot of the other corps in Finals had standards or pop songs in their repertoires). Seriously, this delusional contention that somehow Madison cares about entertaining the audience, and no one else does, has begun bordering on pathological among some of the true believers. Back OT, the answer is still '83 Garfield. They changed the standards for what is 'good', hence changing the standards for what was necessary in order to win.

<Cons Absolutely ridiculous to get in tune and to keep in tune (I think everyone has had an experience with crazy out of tune F horns before). They are much heavier on the bell side of the instrument than a mellophone. The playability of these instruments suffers greatly while marching (for an example, hold an F horn and try to march and play it without hearing your steps). Being a longer instrument, it takes more air to create a big sound.> You naysayers crack me up. It's like you never heard top corps from the late 70s or 80s...all of whom (except Garfield) used French Horn bugles - IN G (longer horns than the Bb horns being discussed) - to stunning effectiveness, including accuracy, pitch, volume, and blend. As for them being heavier...oh my, tell it to the Euph players. <Larger bands or corps (from the more intensive marching) should stay away from such a volatile instrument.>> You get your wish without making a single valid point...now that's a win for you!

Why is it called Tournament of Champions when Bluecoats have zero DCI titles?

Back in 72 when this all started at least when a corps made finals ( TOP 12 ) they were considered a DCI elite corps and treated as such. Now it seems making finals doesn't mean a thing unless your in the top 8.... Whats next, finals being cut to 6 and 6 more corps can be pushed to the curb and left to die ??????

I remember this: I had made reservations for my girl friend and I for that very night at The Windows Of The World. I lived in Staten Island at the time about to leave for work that morning. My telephone rang and my mother said look across the harbor. The first tower was already on fire. My mother said: "I don't like the looks of this, it can't possibly be an accident." She lives in Gramercy Park not too far from the site if you know New York at all. I told her to get out of the house and go directly to one my sister's get out of Manhattan altogether. She responded by saying that if somehow, we were under attack she would not leave her city without trying to help somehow - she was on her terrace watching and I was at my bay window watching and the second plane came in. We wept together on our telephones until the line went dead. Later I found out that one of my corps-mates Fran, was one of the lost. Fran was in the St. Joseph Patron and later St. Rita's guard. The sweetest young woman who I was not surprised to find out touched everyone she met with her incredible generous spirit. She lives on in every alum who marched with her and we remember her with all the others whose lives were needlessly spent in that act of blind hatred. I respectfully submit and request you visit her page on our site and say in whichever way you wish to whomever you pray to that this thing never happens again. here's the link: http://www.stritasbrassmen.org/Fran%20Page.htm Thanks for everything, Fran. Puppet

Well, I guess everybody will have to earn their spot then, wont they. We'll see how you feel if the Scouts are scoring better in percussion next year. My guess is you wont be complaining.

Now there is an interesting thought to save money, outsource the judging to India. They can just watch live on the Fan Network and follow a script.

Madison's opener in 1995, El Toro Caliente, was a Scott Boerma original.

I freely admit that I was flat wrong about Phantom this year.

Blue Devils- 1994 The Cadets- 2000 The Cavaliers- 1995 Blue Knights- 2004 Glassmen- 1998 Madison Scouts- 1998 Phantom Regiment 2005 Santa Clara Vanguard- 1999 Crossmen- 2002 Boston Crusaders- 2008 Southwind- 2005 Spirit- 2003

Why? They came in 6th in drums last year. 4th at semifinals. Scouts drums came in 12th at finals. 13th at semifinals. An instructor might bring a whole bunch of drum talent with him to your favorite corps. And you have a problem with that? Strange.

well if the talent level is the same then the scout member should get the spot...if not ...well thats life

disagreements are fine. grudges being held for 3 years, and whining..well it turns people off

To quote Chris: Posted 02 July 2011 - 09:35 AM (#1190) ckomnick At this point in time, the synchronization rights to "Empire State of Mind" have not been secured. The Madison Scouts have secured the ability to arrange and perform the piece, but the sale of synchronized video content has not yet been granted and DCI has appropriately decided to mute the replay content on the Fan Network to avoid any possible infringement at this time. This does not affect the broadcasts of live performances, only the replay of them. We have been furiously trying to resolve this issue for over 7 months. Due to the popularity of the piece and the numerous artists involved in its creation, it has proven to be vary challenging. Let's just say that drum corps licensing is not a high priority for the agencies involved with a pop tune like ESOM. We are continuing to aggressively secure a license and we appreciate your patience as we work through these matters. Chris Komnick Executive Director DCI and the Scouts knew they needed these rights in order raise continued capital from the use of ESOM. Every DVD preordered to date will not have this music because of the possible replay infringement. So, DCI is selling an imcomplete product and knew of the possibility of do so. This is why it is an ethical issue. Why would I buy a DVD of the top 12 without the complete top 12? It is either laziness or overconfidence that has led to the issue the DCI and the Scouts are now faced with. It decreased the quality of the overall product, and quality is EVERYTHING in visual/musical performances. You may think it a minor infraction, but I'm not buying or listening to their show because of it and I suspect neither will a lot of people. It is an issue of professionalism on the part of all involved.

Come on guys - I would obviously like to see their drumline improve - just not at the expense of current members. There's something to be said about consistency as well. The longer the current members play together the better they'll be. Bring on a better drum staff and it gets even better. I know that's not how it will work. Calm down Tuba Boy....