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No, but I do have a sister who got involved (during her senior year in high school, after she turned 18) with a guy who was a bit older than her and working as the brass instructor/assistant band director for her marching band. My parents chose to have an open discussion with both of them about it and treat her in a mature and responsible way in the hopes that she would act in a similar way. I guess they were smart enough to understand that if it was treated as something forbidden, it would still likely happen in secret... and probably in a way that was different than what they had hoped. They married a few years later and have 3 kids... all solid brass players, of course. Looking back on this, I do believe it was the right approach. Treat young adults as adults and they will behave as such. Treat them like children and they will behave as children. Once again, young people in America are too insulated from genuine responsibility and are not given the skills and support necessary to transition into adulthood as effectively as they should.

Balogna! It might not be a legal issue, I am not sure, but it is much more than simply tacky and it is CLEARLY predatory. This was a teacher/student relationship. That makes his advances, whether welcomed or not, predatory for incredibly obvious reasons. Even if it does not violate any laws because of the relative ages, I am willing to bet it violates the ethics codes of every agency that hands out teachers licenses in the country.

I know Jerseyboy doesn't like that because it steals some of his thunder, but madalumni is correct. Personal growth and excellence of performance trumps all, but that's the same philosophy any corps would espouse. Scott Stewart's shift in philosophy happened around 1995 and carried on throughout the end of his tenure. Prior to that, the corps was very much concerned with the competitive aspect of the activity, Scott included. This is, after all, a competitive activity. Life is competitive. What you learn in the process of participating in a competitive activity is the true prize. So much for the ad hominem statements. But now that I've brought you up to speed, I'm sure it won't happen again, right?

Are men with daughters the only people allowed to have fair opinions?

It works better when you're an annual top-6 corps. Kinda "Aw, shucks." I guess it's a different story when you're bottom-6 or fighting to get into top-12. Garry in Vegas

I dont understand what additional facts you would. If all you know is that he made suggestive texts to a student and discussed the idea that it would be bad if others found out, isn't that enough? I don't care if that is clinically a pedophile, a predator, or simply extremely poor judgement; if that happened he crossed a line that cannot be crossed. Second chances in life? Certainly! Second chances educating teenagers and young adults? Absolutely not!

First, I want to say that its almost impossible now days for a corps to gain some of their operating income by holding a 'successful' drum corps event. Ain't happening. The fees, rental, security, transportation, advertising and all of the other stuff that has to be paid for will not leave you with much, if any, profit. Today, a successful drum corps event is one that runs smoothly and makes you a tiny bit of money. That being said, you want to dump the older people who attend drum corps shows and events? REALLY? WHO do you think sponsors and supports the corps the most? Ticket and souvie sales? The companies that manufacture the drums and bugles (to a point maybe, but over all no)? I think not! Do these kids you talk about have the money to sponsor a marcher? Do these kids have the money to rebuild the food or equipment truck, or purchase another when necessary? You would dump the older people in favor of running a drum corps in the ground while making it 'look' appealing to younger people who have little to no money to spend???? Even with manufacturing sponsors onboard, how in the world would you cover the expenses of the business side of a drum corps? Will a manufacturer sponsor a drum corps operating expenses? Pay for someone to take souvie phone orders or fill those orders? Pay someone to work on next year's program, set up the logistics for the next tour or pay for renting housing sites during spring pratices and auditions? Hardly! If anything, corps need MORE older people in the stands! They need to add these older people to their booster clubs and reward them with better levels of 'awards' as they donate more money into the operating funds of their favorite corps. FILL those stands with old people who enjoy a good drum corps show and are willing to put their money into one or more of the corps! THEY pay for the operating expenses during the off season. Drum corps is so much more than the tour events in the summer! ....as for the original question of specific shows, we need to find the sponsors in the area you want the show to return to. Maybe not corporate sponsors, but groups of 'old people' who want to see some of the shows return that they once enjoyed attending and/or competing in. Have a sponsorship drive to bring back one of those shows - give 'x' number of dollars and you get a sponsorship t-shirt or patch or something and a seat to attend the show. Fill the stands with people who are willing to each pay a sponsorship to have the show......

Dude, what are you smoking? It's just a drum corps show.

you'd be amazed how many people do exactly what you say they don't do.

While some folks here are speculating on what whould or would not work, and whether bringing back an old show "named" event makes sense, let's take a look at what HAS been done recently: In 2010, Boston Crusaders brought back the old "Bridgeport Drums" show to Bridgeport, CT. That line-up had Open and World Class corps, and an exhibition by the CT Hurricanes. The show was a success and was held again this past summer to an even bigger crowd. This WAS a DCI-sanctioned show, btw. In 2011, BAC brought back the venerable CYO Nationals, again as a DCI-sanctioned show. Here was the line-up: Carolina Crown, Boston Crusaders, Madison Scouts, Crossmen, Spirit of Atlanta, Jersey Surf, and Spartans. Nope, nothing wrong with this lineup... Was this a Top 8 show? No. Did it matter? Absolutely not! The crowd was gigantic, the corps all did well financially, all the souvie booths were mobbed (including the CYO National legacy stuff), and everyone went home thrilled. Both of these shows were held in old (but recently renovated with new turf) stadiums. And, talk about branding....Boston now hosts three shows: Bridgeport Drums, CYO Nationals, and East Coast Classic. Nothing against TOC8 shows....but these shows PROVE you can succeed quite well with a mix of corps, and these show names are much better, imo, than simply "Bridgeport", "Quincy", or "Lawrence".

Interesting, though, that if you walk into Best Buy today, you'll fine a whole bunch of tablet PC's that closely mirror (in form and function) the iPad. Same with the cell phones who very closely mirror the iPhone. Walk over to the computers and try to find a tower PC. Everybody and their brother is building an "all-in-one" computer, or iMac. Even the PC laptops are trying to look more sleek and aesthetically pleasing like the MacBook Pro. If you open your eyes, you can see Job's influence in virtually every corner of the technology market. They really HAVE changed the face of technology.

This thread proves one thing to me.... Just when you thought there was ONE subject that the DCP world could agree on, there isn't. I dig it. I never would have expected anything like this on here, and the diversity of our responses is why this place is a good place.

BozzlyB, on 11 October 2011 - 04:16 PM, said: Very few corps have used props to the degree Blue Stars have in the last three years. Short N Sour, you and BozzlyB are two peas in a pod. For being such Blue Stars "supporters", you both throw around so much bogus rhetoric it is laughable. Go back and read your post history(s) regarding Blue Stars. You guys are the poster childs for fair-weather fans. Your comments on props are hilarious. You slam them for props yet you praise the CHAMPION Blue Devils that use lots of----ummmm----wait for it----PROPS! (To great effect I might add) Alex L, you are completely misguided in saying that the Blue Stars were well on their way to making finals before the "Tarponization" of the corps. Wrong. The reason the Blue Stars went from 14th in 2007 to 8th in 2008 was because Brad Furlano hired Michael Shapiro and Kevin Ford to head up the visual design. Before that, it was 2 years in 14th, and your statement of stagnation regarding Howard et all is very similar to 2006 and 2007 Blue Stars. The bottom line: Drum Corps needs variety. Drum Corps needs people who take chances. Drum Corps needs corps who evolve. Drum Corps needs variety. Drum Corps needs variety. Drum Corps needs variety. Get it? Blue Stars have taken big risks. All of which have been noteworthy. Have all risks been competitively successful? No. But thank goodness that they have an identity. Thank goodness they have a vision. By the way, have you watched "Tarponization" from BOA finals last year? I challenge you to find a more captivating and thoroughly coordinated product. I, for one, as an alumni, would be proud to have that team as a part of my drum corps. But that's just me.

Whew, feel better? Nothing new here for me to really comment on. There's just a LOT of FUD and concern, which is totally understandable. I share your concerns but it still doesn't change anything. The behaviors you describe are bad, but they're not that of a child predator. This is some other animal. BTW, I didn't insinuate that the young woman was not a victim. I said that I do not know; I don't know the facts. All I know is that I do not know everything and I am glad that this wasn't an issue between an adult and a child. That's the most important thing to me. I was in high school as an adult and I certainly was aware that I was an adult in high school and I acted differently because of that. I don't know the deal here other than what has been reported, but I wouldn't assume that the teacher took advantage of the student just because of the student/teacher relationship. If there had been a complaint from the student mentioned in the article, then we would know more. It's already pretty damming to the teacher. I'm glad that it wasn't worse. ...and please don't assume that you know about my typical "male naivety when it comes to this sort of thing". You don't know what things people may have gone through on here.

Jim Moore is phenomenal at what he does. True story.

Are you interested in becoming a Caballero? I would like to extend to you an invitation to join the Caballero family. For close to 66 years the Caballeros have been a world champion drum and bugle corps based in Hawthorne, NJ. The Caballeros are committed to providing our membership with the very best in instruction, facilities and equipment available in the all-age drum corps activity. We offer you the ability to learn and compete at the highest level with a fun-filled, family atmosphere. Your parents or guardians are welcome to become a part of the corps family as members or volunteers. Our Open House Event scheduled for November 26th and 27th, 2011 is a great opportunity for you and your family to learn more about the Caballeros. If you have any questions about our open house or the Caballeros please feel free to get in touch with me at cabscontra@aol.com or give me a call at 201-304-1232. You can also click on Join the Cabs to receive valuable information on how to join the Caballeros. If you are looking for a challenging and rewarding entertainment and musical experience we hope you will consider the Caballeros. Don't forget to view our - you can experience the thrill of joining the Caballeros. I look forward to meeting you at Open House.Sincerely, Mike Ryan Hawthorne Caballeros Recruiting Manager

Bring back US Open, World Open, American-International Open? I loved participating in those shows, especially Marion, OH. What a great community! Any thoughts?

Today is Mike "Red" Corso's birthday! Red is a member of the World Drum Corps Hall of Fame, and is DCA's treasurer - he's held that post since 1974. Now, everybody on DCP needs to send him birthday greetings at red@dcacorps.org . Happy Birthday Red!

Sorry, Dan; maybe I need another glass of sherry, but this doesn't make sense because it's so vague. Your statement about "value" is info in a vacuum. % operating revenue...value-based pricing...what the heck are you talking about? Gate pricing? The brand should be DCI only? (Don't forget that the corps themselves are the "brand", as it should be, and not DCI.) Are you suggesting that remarketing under a different brand would present more value, draw more values-based fans, and then we can adjust prices to match the ensuing attendance? What would be that other "brand"? "Multiple touch points"? From whom? We already collect demographic data and stay in contact with fans throughout the year. A different "branding" is going to do that better? Are you suggesting I can sell hats during the off-season and, presumably, make a profit if I would only "touch" multiple times a year? Surely you don't mean I can sell tickets...when we don't even know the lineup of the show next year? Your comments on groups tickets is unclear. Please restate. Is it safe to assume that DCI has NOT already talked to one of these magicians who you say "have done it" and, therefor, don't know about the validity of your magic elixer? Heck, I can't even figure out from your post what "done it" actually is. I'm interested in your comments, but only when I can figure out what the heck you mean. The Other Dan

What is an "FMCG" company?

Interesting, I had some of the same thoughts and immediately dismissed them. But when you say it, it all make sense.

You mean chatting up girls in bars by telling her that you that you're a marching band clarinet tech?

Your sarcasm dimishes the validity of your argument. You clearly are not from the Boston area if you don't realize what a HUGE marketing advantage it is for a drum corps show to be called the "CYO Nationals".

It's the sculptor, not the clay. Cadets used to get kids that couldn't blow their nose and repeatedly turned them into champions.

This. The Cadets learned their lesson with props, voice, and electronics overload and look where they ended up.

^^^ Not a teacher.

Nope....but it matters when it comes to an opinion. One opinion is based on rational logical thought. One...yeah, not so much.

While this is tacky and demonstrates poor judgement, there was nothing illegal or predatory about the situation. 18 is a legal adult the world over and many countries earlier. If you are able to be trusted with the maturity to vote or go to war or stand trial for criminal actions at 18, you are certainly able to handle such a situation. Again, extremely poor judgement, certainly tacky... but nothing illegal. Participating in a youth activity in a role that might directly interface with youth is probably not the best move from a PR perspective, but the way this situation is described in this thread certainly seems to blow things way out of proportion.

I'm overage by about 25 years. I doubt that I'd help any corps given my lack of conditioning and chops at this pont

I believe a great instructional staff can get things out of members that the members didn't know they had in them to give.

Honestly i never got the hype on this one.

While no one has attacked a DCP member, you have just made a very, very serious accusation. It's really very simple: You live your life participating in a career field that doesn't deal directly with youth. I think a conversation about the safety of children is much more important than anyone's predictions, staff changes, or show announcements.

I marched with the guy in '99 and was on support staff with him in '02.....never personally liked him.

I agree. If you're 18 but still a high school student, it's just not right. I should be good; I've never sent inappropriate text messages to my students. Maybe because it's wrong. And creepy. As he should. When you do things like this, that's what you get. It's about choices and consequences. One consequences is that you should have to leave the field of education. Who cares if that messes up your life; you made the choice and that choice comes with consequences.

I won't argue against that point at all. It's totally valid. But let's face it - this guy is going to have to walk around with a target on his back.

yeah the act is one thing, the arrogance is another some of these walk around STILL like the are the 2nd coming....crazy..one would think a low profile and a little humility would be in order, instead people and smaller circuits hire these people to lecture and preach as if nothing happened. Disgusting on all levels.

I have. According to WFTV the girl was---quote---a consenting adult in the state of florida. Regardless, equally as bad in my book. Thankfully many states have rules on the book that bar this from happening with a student/teacher at any age.

Good. Not everyone is cut out to be a teacher. It takes a certain character, a certain level of morality. Just because you really like running around a field or floor doesn't mean you get to be around young people. Some people, no matter how good they are, just need to go away. Disgusting.

amazing isnt it? not like its an independent group either or someone over 18....you think this is bad WGIs dirty little secrets are worse...one just went to jail for 2 years..unbelieveable!!!!!

People make mistakes. Those people then leave the field of education. When you make that kind of mistake, you lose the privilege of working in education. Period. What a sad mistake, Teal Sound. Spread the word. Those who make such mistakes - whether they own up to it or not - do not belong in any sort of educational field. Should it be the end of the world for them? No. Not if they move forward and make good with the rest of their lives. But make good away from kids. You lost your privilege. Stay away from Teal Sound.

How could an organization that works with teenagers and young adults hire some one in a lead role that has a background like this? Do they not care about the safety of their corps members?

Are you talking in any specific year? BAC should have made finals in 1977. A very strong corps and had all of the elements to be there.

Wow! I don't see where your coming from here. The OP brought a couple of talking points into their original post and each poster address one of those talking points in their response. Yes- the post was partially in regards to Cadets2 but their were also some open ended points such as corps that may be closer to the OP's location, transportation... etc. I didn't see representatives from all the other corps chime in (just some members from existing, established organizations) and the subject matter was exactly the same as it was at the start of the thread. I guess 98% of the posters here on DCP are part of the hindrance of DCA's growth than huh? By the way- Its Hindrance, not Hinderence. Please don't respond to me without being more accurate with your spelling. Moving on...

Simple answer Olive: think of DCp as someone's kitchen or family room during a get together. One person mentions something and 5 people chime in with comments relative but not quite on topic first mentioned. Discussion ensues which goes back and forth. Interesting cross-topics are covered. Possibly someone's nose even gets out of joint for some reason. In the end most at said gathering will walk away feeling good about the whole thing .

Right, because having civil open discussion is such a hindrance. First time ever in the history of DCP a thread skewed off a bit (yet still relative).................

Again, thanks for all the input guys. The reason I asked for some Cadets2 information is that the website doesn't have as much detail about things compared to other corps websites. The C2 website is just like "Hey. We're Cadets2. Here's the audition dates and fees." But there are some other people helping me out with some corps to join, and I'm even considering Raiders for DCI Open. A lot of the other corps I'm looking at seem to have good money support and carpool organization. As far as Cadets2 goes, I ordered the audition packet already, and they are getting ready to send them out on the 10th. That should fill me in more. So I'll work things out. I have a lot of choices to choose from (Cadets2, Raiders, Windsor, Bushwackers, Shenandoah Sound, and Buccaneers.) I'm just looking for a something good to start with so I get enough experience to possibly audition for World Class sometime. And don't worry Olive. Yes, I was looking more for Cadets2 information, but seeing some other options isn't bad either, concerning money and transportation more then anything.

double post woo! Anyway, my friend and I were having a little meme-off and this came up... (don't kill me please)

Bump!

Wait, do corps really get the full day off for laundry? Geez, we were lucky if we got a block off, usually it was just a couple of hours for laundry, then back to rehearsal....