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What a jaundiced view of things. This is a depressing thread that is bound not to end well in my opinion, and I'm not sure what the motivations are for it. Who cares what will be the topics of most controversy, most interest, or a lightening rod for discussion this year. Just sit back and see what shakes out. My hunch, they'll be enough topics that'll come about to wet the appetite of all tastes during the coming months.

ice baby.

Interesting; I have the '74 video ready to pop into the DVD player. Which member is he and how does he carry the entire corps to the 4th place finish as the most important player in the entire corps?

Gold Bond applied while still moist

let's be honest. many of those who have spoken up have no ####### clue who the new management of Teal even is, nor care. We care about drum corps being healthy, run more business like, and free of bad PR like this.

well that answers the question of if they really played the drums upside down

Does Eckertsville still exist? PS: Okay, this is ridiculous. Why would anyone downrate me for asking if Larry Eckert's Eckertsville was still around? That's what he called it himself when I interviewed him for the DCI.org article I referenced later. Sheesh.

If I'm reading you correctly, you're wondering why the Allentown performance isn't on the Fan Network. If that's the case, it's only been a few years that DCI has had the technology available to film many of the shows during the the season and put them up on the Internet. There was no demand for that to be done back in 1980. But in the meantime, you might want to be checking out DCI.org on Monday, October 24. PS: Hey, person who's enjoying downrating me all over the place for no good reason; I've got no power to time travel and tell DCI back in 1980 that they should be recording the regional contests for the coming Internet age. And if I know an answer to a question someone asks, I'll continue to provide insight because that's just the kind of person I am. And if that requires me to ask people at DCI, I'll continue doing that as well, because I believe every sincere question deserves an answer. I'm sorry if you happen to disagree with that philosophy.

I freely concede that my approach to this thread failed to recognize the potential to upset some legitimate sensitivities. You're going to have to take me at my word that I just wanted to have fun projecting what might annoy us most next year. That's all. Why not have some fun seeing what we as a group expect to go wrong? Because something always does. Is that really so wrong-headed? HH

Nobody wants to admit it, but this is an issue that happens to a lot of drum corps and youth music ensembles. Some of it's ethically and morally sound (i.e. instructors who form relationships with former students WELL after graduation/aging out. I know five current instructors who married or are engaged to former students). Some of it's just creepy and continues to be a cancer in this activity, though. Teal Sound made one of the dumbest mistakes a non-profit organization could possibly make. Even if Danielray is right and this issue is blown out of proportion, a simple Google search for this person will bring up enough to scare the crap out of many prospective members and volunteers. What's even more frightening is to see no attempt at damage-control from a supposed "World Class" organization. After working behind the scenes for a corps that no longer exists and seeing some horrible decisions made, it pains me to see a group with such promise shoot itself in the foot.

Here's me crossing my fingers that Houston goes back to the 2 night format. I know it won't but I can have dreams, can't I?

While your support of this decision is your choice, and of course unassailable, you overstep your bounds in my opinion when you castigate the opponents of the decision to hire this individual and who believe this was an unwise decision by Teal Sound made " a snap decision and are being driven by those with an ax to grind with the new management team." You can't possibly ascribe motivation for those of us that oppose this decision, as much as those of us who oppose it can assign motivations for Teal Sound to bring this individual into their organization. Furthermore, your description of those who oppose this decision as " pigs "as in the " never argue with a pig " quip, is a most unfortunate analogy. It is a terrible use of an analogy and should not have been brought up here in your closing remarks at all. Nobody here brought up a " pig " analogy and used this term with this individual.Likewise, noone should bring up the " pig " analogy to those who believe this to be a wrong headed decision to hire this guy. Your " pig " analogy took away from what was otherwise a somewhat compelling and non confrontational defense of Teal Sound and their decision here, from someone such as yourself who has been associated with Teal Sound for quite some time.

In '89 why do you think Royer took those violators aside and told them they needed to get out of there under the cover of darkness before the members discovered what was going on? Simply because the rule works!!! Royer knew that the legit of-age members would have pummeled those violators "not" for forgery, "not" for lying, but for causing harm (to all of SCV). That is why it is such a good rule; it is a self internal check to keep everyone clean. A person who violates the rule facing the individual figurative boot from DCI is one thing; but a person facing the literal boot from hundreds of members who all just got disqualified along with that person is one of the best things that keeps everyone within the activity in check.

You do realize there is a glaring contradiction in your post; on one hand you state that you would hate drum corps because the rule punishes the of-age kids then you turn around and state that you do not blame DCI for the rule.

No, a lot has changed and I think it is unheard of for a good reason now a days. Unless it fits with the design of the show, i think it won't help them. The song was beautiful, and it should stay in their tribute show to 9/11 Should they put malaguena on the field next year? YES

My age-out was 30 APR 1973, before the DCI deadline of "turning 21 after June first." DCI put a lot of attention to communicating that a push was on by show coordinators to monitor strict adherence to the age limit. Accordingly, I didn't compete in 1973 or thereafter in junior drum corps. It was very, very clear to us at that time DCI history what would happen if "ringers" (over-age members) marched and it was detected: disqualification. We all read Drum Corps News. We all knew DCI was making the consequence for marching ringers to more that a slap on the wrist. During my three-year stretch with Two-Seven, everybody knew who was a ringer, who as legit, and who was about to age-out. Organizations that didn't intend to strictly comply with DCI rules weren't forced to belong to DCI. No one twisted their arms. Whether it be regulations or laws, if you break the rules/law and get caught, you can't cry foul.

What I mean is it sounds like you heard a load of BS from your Southwind buddies. Congrats on that ring though.

I guess the question is...Who are we really punishing? In the end the DQ's punish the kids that are "of age". The overage kids walk away, what do they get? The adults take some blame BUT if I were an 18 year old kid in Muchachos in 1975, I would HATE drum corps after that! I would love to hear from those Muchacho members that were there. If what was said was true then... One person forced the disqualification of 134 kids. I don't blame DCI for this, I blame the practices of the past.

Yes but we are discussing something that happened in the US.

I credit Patsy Bonfiglio (wife of 27th Lancer director George Bonfiglio) for staying in college while I marched. At the close of my first season with Two-Seven, I started college. As we prepping for the '71 season, my grades were bad for the second semester. I was wrapped-up in being a Lancer, and college work was just not as attractive. I almost quit college because it was getting in the way of partying. I was too lazy to study in the manner I should. Patsy summoned me to come to the house with the statement, "I have a bone to pick with you." I broke into a sweat because I was having a grand old time with beer, a couple of girls, and trying a little weed once in a while. ("God! The jig is up!" I thought. "Maybe Patsy is going to lower the boom on me.") As Patsy gestured me to sit at their kitchen table, I felt very apprehensive. First sharply - then gently - Patsy scolded me, telling me I was too gifted to not be able to juggle both my obligations to the corps and get my college grades in order. She held out her arms, hugged me and whispered "You are bound for big things, Billy Sullivan." So, I stopped smoking pot and cut w-a-a-y back on the drinking. After our great 1971 season, I made the Dean's List the fall Semester, and Patsy once again summoned me to the house "… and bring your report card." She directed me to show it to husband George Bonfiglio. Both were genuinely proud for me for being to be "a good Lancer" and a good student. Patsy said, "I just knew you wouldn't let me down." That gave me the "juice" to square myself away. I made the President's List every subsequent semester, graduating with honors. Even after I aged-out, Patsy called from time to time to check my grades, and she sent me a graduation card ... which I still have, 35 years later. Coming to the Two-Seven from an otherwise fun experience with St. Agnes CYO Band after the 1969 season, I developed a heightened sense of PASSION: the devotion to a cause greater than oneself, and tireless diligence in its furtherance - the ability to follow the calling of my heart with boundless energy and irrepressible enthusiasm. Lancer members, the staff and the volunteers who had developed a sense of this Lancer Passion drew others like us to them. Each had their own unique version of a PASSION for the places we might go and the things we might do – if we did them together. As we grew away from the 27th Lancer organization to move on into other phases of our lives, careers, and loves, our ability TO LIVE BY OUR PASSION earned respect from the people with whom we had contact. People in our lives judged us for the depth of our beliefs and our emotions -- more than by any logic or knowledge we might advance.

Remind me. The topic of this thread was . . . . . oh yeah, Adam Sage to Scouts. Oh look. A chicken.

Probably meant what you heard was just sour grapes from random SW members. The story does pretty much sound like BS - got to admit that.

YIKES! Embellish much?

Yea, Sounds like sour grapes to me. CJ8 Actually marched Southwind and didn't hear squat. It's BS... As Usual...

I totally get that scoring is important but Gen Tso was actually hinting that Southwind was purposefully taking free days (I suspect he means so they wouldn't catch up to the Scouts)So as not to embarrass the Organization that was feeding them? I don't know as I was out of touch with drum corps at the time. I was not there but I would be really surprised if that actually happened. That's why I call BS on his statement.

I don't know about now, but Cadets used to do this, routinely, like magic. It was impressive to see them going from getting their ### handed to them by, say, the Bandettes early season to winning in August.

How did they attach the camera to the drums? Anyone know?

for emphasis...where YOU...compared yourself...to Bill Cook. Have a good day, as I move to place you in my ignore pile...troll me thinks.

Well, if it weren't for the news we wouldn't know about this at all, would we? Anyways . . . I've said it a few times already: This guy is not a pedophile, he's not a child abuser. Is he a predator? I dunno. Is he creepy? Seems so. Is what he did highly unethical? Yes, and that's what we should be concerned with here. He resigned before he could be fired. He'll have a hard time getting any sort job in a school system from here on out, and rightfully so. The question is: Since drum corps now view themselves as educational organizations, should they not hold their employees to the same ethical standards used by schools?

I think we have moved way beyond where the topic is. The former teacher, resigned. End of story unless the 18 year olds' parents sue or find information of anything prior to her 18th birthday. Otherwise, that chapter of the story is closed when he resigned. Now the Teal Sound chapter of the story. They have made a decision to hire the guy. They will face the consequences of this decision. All decisions have a certain amount of risk and always have consequences. Teal Sound has determined the risks are manageable and the potential positive outcomes for their program outweigh any negative protential consequences. We, shall see come the November camp season. We, shall see. Remember, parents like that whole easy to purchase background checker software. And, parents like to share with other parents.

Nah...it's really the pierogies!

Wait a minute. You scheduled something other than drum corps during the summer? You've got some splaining to do! HH

Jeff: Can you put in a good word for me at a tailgate party next year? I can bring the cheese.

I think they used an indestructible electric guitar for Finals. This was a witty reference to things not always going as planned at rock concerts. Throughout the history of such events, concertgoers learned to expect the unexpected. It was part of the "you had to be there" vibe that rock concert fans lived to talk about. Genius, really. And then when it didn't break on cue, Herbert threw it across a few yard lines, a wry comment on The Rolling Stones' "You can't always get what you want." I recognized that reference immediately. That was part of the joy of Crown's show...things were always evolving in front of our eyes, and from show to show. And at the time the guitar was being smashed at Finals, I could swear I heard a lone marimbist playing the melody from these lyrics of Foreigner's "Break it Up:" I don't want to break it up/Why do we have to break it up? And at the exact same time, a lone vibist was playing the melody from these lyrics of Exilia's "Can't Break Me Down:" You can't break me down/You can't push me around/But still I stand, still I stand/You'll never conquer me. The inclusion of these two lyrics at the same time could not have been coincidental. It also paid homage to the yin and yang, the symbol of which was being traced invisibly on the field by the footprints of two guard members during the attempted breaking of the guitar. If you watch the video carefully, following their feet, you can see that they clearly make those two paisley shapes that form the yin and yang symbol. Please tell me I'm not the only one who caught all that. Surely some of you did as well. PS: Why is this being rapidly downrated? Have we lost our collective sense of humor?

It's the sculptor, not the clay. Cadets used to get kids that couldn't blow their nose and repeatedly turned them into champions.

These show names are pretty much meaningless for all but those that are or soon will be eligible for Medicare. Again, it's about the money. A random list of show names is harder to market and promote.... and is a major missed opportunity for sponsorship.

I think that would be kind of a cool 'spin' for all involved: Tour of Champions events derived from classic, old school drum corps shows & fan favorite classic events of the past are brought back with the top drum corps of the activity participating. Seems like a win/win on the surface (without exploring logistics of all of this).

Dan Tewalt, euphonium Here's a page with a recap of the show: http://www.wheeloffortunelovers.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=new&action=display&thread=2380&page=1

DCI put out a notice about it on Facebook. I watched it. He did really well!

Then they'd do best not to make an announcement like they just made when they're facing financial difficulties. Most of us aren't saying this guy is a pedophile, that he's child abuser, or that he did anything illegal. Those that are saying this are waaaaaay off base and are, as you've said, buying into the general paranoia regarding these issues. I do hope the guy recovers from this, turns himself around, and finds success somewhere. But what he did was highly unethical. It's the ultimate breach of trust for an educator. It's trap many teachers have fallen into before . . . and lot of them were otherwise good guys and good educators. But there's no coming back from it, or at least there shouldn't be. He won't work in a school system again (or at least not for a very long time), either as a teacher or as an administrator. And since corps want to be seen as "academic" organizations - not something I personally agree with, but that's the way things are going - should they not hold their employees to these same standards? Yes, or no?

im hoping for Ice CAstles in 2012

Well, as INT's PR person, I'm proud to announce our theme for 2012. Well, not exactly announce the theme, but hint at it. We've wanted to do something no else else is doing, so just last night, we came up with the tag line, "What is like ice, yet burns like fire?" Since it's beyond not being even remotely likely some other corps will have the same theme, we're confident in going ahead and knowing we'll have it all to ourselves, hopefully not repeating last year's debacle when we settled on our Juliet theme just minutes after Phantom Regiment did the same. (I promised after that I would first talk to PR's INT person, but I forgot to do so this year.) And don't get me started about how we then decided to do the music of Burt Bacharach because no one had ever done that before. That was even worse than when we found out we had to change the title of our 2009 show about mathematics from "The Great Divide" and altered the concept slightly so we could name it "The Journey of ONE." Yeah, that really worked well for us...for about six hours. People say INT is behind the times, but I like to think we're solidly even with it, but always looking at it from around the corner.

Signing your post would lend a lot more credibility to your views on this topic.

And you don't have to climb the hill to get to your seats.

Ah, good. I'm glad to hear it's still around. Usually when I get to the stadium, I have to get right to work and it might be difficult for me to get over because usually drive in a couple DCI.org people, but I'd love to reconnect. I part right by where Pineville is...I really must get over there. Jeff, please share some stories of what it's like in Pineville. When I saw it (when it was still called Eckerdsville), it was a pretty happening place with lots of camaraderie...and refreshments. At the time, it went on through the night. Does it still do that? (Unfortunately, I've got to get back to the hotel to do the recap analysis and assist with any other DCI.org stuff if needed.) Who all is invited to partake of the community?

What year(s)? Aside from 1980,when they imported a station wagon or two full of band kids from Alabama, or Mississippi, or wherever it was, and climbed out of the doldrums to make finals (they placed tenth that year, btw, a long way from winning), Cadets were pretty competitive through the rest of the decade. In '81 it was pretty clear right out of the gate that they were a lock for finals; in '82 they were competitive with the mid-tier finalists all summer before kicking it up a notch during final week and moving into the top 3; during the three-peat years '83 through '85 they pretty much won every show they entered. They were hardly getting their ### handed to them by the Okefenokee Swamp Rats at any point during any of those years. And I was out on those mid-80's tours working with some lower tier groups and got to know some of the Cadets' staff and members; though they may have had some green kids in their ranks, they were most definitely not working with "nose-blowers" in large numbers as you suggest. Doormat to DCI Champs, routinely, like magic... sorry, but the numbers just don't bear it out. I still think you've got a touch the rose-colored goggle syndrome. Peace - no personal disrespect intended, Fred O.

It isn't BS. Hell, there are plenty of 2000 members who will vouch for it. Pat Seidling was told directly to "give them free days" towards the end of the season. He's too classy to come on here and confirm it, but I can GAURANTEE it happened. There are plenty of southwind alums teaching you can ask. Ala Lind Kusmierczak or Joe "pirate" hamlin.

I tried to send you a PM... was blocked. If you remove, I'll try again... then you can move me back to ignore :)