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...you believe that great financial and humanitarian success MUST come with the caveat of being full of oneself and also a jerk? And that you must be born otherwise in order to achieve either while still being humble and not a jerk? You're right. DCI should listen to you. You've got it all together.

Examples of dead horses: Electronics, Bb horns, BD demand, Crown brass, ToC, Domes. Examples of topics that don't go away: Children's safety.

HMMMM, Seriously comparing yourself to Bill Cook.... I must admit I rarely read all of you your posts as they are generally nauseatingly long. I can surmise that: A: You are full of yourself. B: You really really like to type. C: You like drum corps or you wouldn't be on DCP giving yourself Carpal Tunnel.

Where I grew up being an ego maniacal jerk was generally a necessary requirement in getting your ### kicked.

I doubt you'll ever liked OR disliked more than GH. You are obviously much more self-centered because he, unlike you, is improving today's kids.

This is a message board. If you really think anything is going to get done about an important topic here, you are delusional. This is just a place where people can come talk. At this point, everything that will be said on this topic has been said, and for the last 10 pages or so, we have in deed been beating a dead horse.

That wasn't the point. The point is that the ENTIRE universe knows and gets what this person has done and Teal's decision. Every time I read this thread all I see is the same thing being said over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and...over. We get it.

Yeah, but it doesn't mean that those rookies are going to come back. The rookies that loved the brass staff that was let go, may not come back. The rookies that didn't like the old brass staff, may be jaded about the whole SCV organization and how things were handled and they too may not come back. With lots of staff turnover (which SCV has been the model of), means that you are probably not going to have good retention and therefore, will be young. Listen, I am not saying SCV is going to finish 8th. Not at all actually. However, if they do I wouldn't be surprised because they, as a corps, have been trending downward. Sure, they hired some new (and in my opinion, better) staff. That does not mean that all is fixed and even if it does, it does not at all mean that all will be fixed right away. Saying that SCV is going to automatically be in the hunt for a medal and especially a championship NEXT year is putting unfair expectations on the members and the staff. Building that in this activity takes time. Look how long it took for Crown to build up to that level and even then they have only medaled once. Having the reaction of "Really? SCV in eighth? ok, dude" makes it sound like 8th is so far out of the question that the poster who predicted them there is WAY off base. It also implies that SCV is bound for much much higher than 8th. I think that is both unrealistic and unfair fo 2012. Maybe they will be in the hunt in 2013. Certainly they should be in 2014 if the staff stays intact. Could you imagine what it would be like if a championship corps fell all the way to 8th or ninth the next year? What if someone would have predicted that on here? They would have been ripped to shreds, right?... Didn't a recent championship drum corps fall all the way from 1st to 9th in one year? Oh yeah, they did, and a majority of this "dream team design" staff were the ones responsible for both the first, and the eighth place finish. So, those are just a few reasons why I say that they could finish in 8th and I wouldn't be surprised. I think they will finish a little higher (5th or 6th maybe?), but if they finish lower I would not be surprised. Anyways, what I meant by this all was: Give it time.

Well I, for one, doubt that the addition of JD Shaw and George Wozniak to the staff would make SCV place lower than they had in the 2011 season.. Also, because there were so many rookies in the corps for the 2011 season, it's likely that there's gunna a lower number of rookies this season. Meaning, more kids used this whole "marching drum corps" thing.

Gold Bond applied while still moist

It’s not that far off. The outrage. The indignation. The righteous dismay. Soon corps will begin revealing their 2012 programs to be followed inevitably by the usual second-guessing and sniping along with some legitimate criticism on DCP. The judges will have their view. So will the DCP grand jury. What will we despise? What will set our blood to boil? What will inspire us to forecast the demise of drum corps? Check the list. Cast your ballot for the one issue that you think will raise the most bile on DCP in 2012. Get it right. If not, we might all have to agree to agree in 2013! HH

Hi All Just thought I'd share some of our preparations for joining you all again for a fantastic season ahead. I can't tell you how much we ALL are looking forward to seeing you in DC next year and hopefully "putting it Down" for ya'll.. Amplitudo Est Maximus (Size Does Matter) KS Tuba Line John Chatterton

From the Shameless Plug Department: A report on the Interservice show, and some more show photos, are now available on the latest online edition of Drum Corps World. And now, back to our regularly-scheduled lives.

Wow! A nearly complete cut and paste of someone else's words. So "HOWDY" like. Pathetic......

Adding a distraction to DCP is like adding a bowl of rice to the world's largest Chinese buffet. I'm not saying you shouldn't discuss what you're offering, but in the interest of keeping this thread on topic, perhaps the mods can transfer the posts from the point where you went off-topic to a new thread. This would offer some respect to the OP and give you a more proper forum to present your ideas. Of...you can open up a new topic yourself and request the applicable posts also be transferred over. And the idea that no one will pay attention to George Hopkins when he presents ideas is (politeness mode activated) perhaps genuine, but not likely to be effective (politeness mode deactivated). George sets off discussion about motives when he helps elderly people cross the street and when he buys a different brand of toothpaste.

A couple of years a younger guy showed up at my Toastmasters club. I ended up sitting across the table from him at the restaurant that we go to after our meeting. I had not been able to talk to him before I heard him say "do you know anything about drum corps?" He marched Garfield in the 2000s. He's moved to another town but I still tease him about Hopkins on FB, when appropriate.

I think you might've missed the point there. Anyway, I'd be the first to tell you I'm full of myself and that I am kind of a jerk... and will likely never change. Cook was an absolute anomaly in that he was able to achieve the level of success he did without being either of those. This is unbelievably rare and something that I don't think people can really learn... they just are.

I think they'd probably be as costly and as unnecessary as cosmetic surgery, yes.

My son and I marched in championships together with Bucs in 05, 06, 07, 08, and 09. Marched with my now daughter-in-law the same 5 years.

lol not sure there's a better way to deal with children taking cheap cracks at corps than this.

You know, it doesn't take a whole lot of will power not to creep on students. There are plenty of fish in the sea. Who cares if we lose some talent.

I was hesitant to go to Allentown, an 8 hour drive and what not. Boo's article convinced me to go. And then it turned into a 10 day DCI trip that starts in allentown and ends in indianapolis.

BD wins because they usually have one of the easiest books every season, and they draw talented players because of their name and success. You can have a challenging book, but if you don't have the players it will sound bad. (SCV 2010) You can have a poor show in general, but with great players they can do well (BD 2011) For amazing shows its always a combination of great design and musicianship, look at phantom 2008 Long story short, you don't have to be amazing in order to win every year. you just have to know how to play the game. Don't put something out there that is too challenging for the corps, if your end goal is to win at all costs. A good design team can make or break the year.

I credit Patsy Bonfiglio (wife of 27th Lancer director George Bonfiglio) for staying in college while I marched. At the close of my first season with Two-Seven, I started college. As we prepping for the '71 season, my grades were bad for the second semester. I was wrapped-up in being a Lancer, and college work was just not as attractive. I almost quit college because it was getting in the way of partying. I was too lazy to study in the manner I should. Patsy summoned me to come to the house with the statement, "I have a bone to pick with you." I broke into a sweat because I was having a grand old time with beer, a couple of girls, and trying a little weed once in a while. ("God! The jig is up!" I thought. "Maybe Patsy is going to lower the boom on me.") As Patsy gestured me to sit at their kitchen table, I felt very apprehensive. First sharply - then gently - Patsy scolded me, telling me I was too gifted to not be able to juggle both my obligations to the corps and get my college grades in order. She held out her arms, hugged me and whispered "You are bound for big things, Billy Sullivan." So, I stopped smoking pot and cut w-a-a-y back on the drinking. After our great 1971 season, I made the Dean's List the fall Semester, and Patsy once again summoned me to the house "… and bring your report card." She directed me to show it to husband George Bonfiglio. Both were genuinely proud for me for being to be "a good Lancer" and a good student. Patsy said, "I just knew you wouldn't let me down." That gave me the "juice" to square myself away. I made the President's List every subsequent semester, graduating with honors. Even after I aged-out, Patsy called from time to time to check my grades, and she sent me a graduation card ... which I still have, 35 years later. Coming to the Two-Seven from an otherwise fun experience with St. Agnes CYO Band after the 1969 season, I developed a heightened sense of PASSION: the devotion to a cause greater than oneself, and tireless diligence in its furtherance - the ability to follow the calling of my heart with boundless energy and irrepressible enthusiasm. Lancer members, the staff and the volunteers who had developed a sense of this Lancer Passion drew others like us to them. Each had their own unique version of a PASSION for the places we might go and the things we might do – if we did them together. As we grew away from the 27th Lancer organization to move on into other phases of our lives, careers, and loves, our ability TO LIVE BY OUR PASSION earned respect from the people with whom we had contact. People in our lives judged us for the depth of our beliefs and our emotions -- more than by any logic or knowledge we might advance.

Easy there friend, that's a pretty broad generalization. Sure, there have been kids with limited experience who learned their trade and made the grade under the expert guidance of the Cadets staff and organization. But don't make it seem like they've routinely taken busloads of nose-blowers and turned them into a crack outfit because their staff knows the secret of turning lead into (maroon and) gold. Ask any kid or staff member from a 10th - 18th place corps who struggled through the tour while watching three or five of their best field horses from the previous season rip it up every night as members of the championship-bound Cadets - or Cavies, or BD, or [name powerhouse multi-year champion of your choice]. Staff are important, no argument, and a good creative/instructional team can make all the difference. But rarely does anyone make a silk purse out of a sow's ear; you've got to have capable performers as well. Peace, Fred O.

Fast Moving Consumer Goods

For people over a certain age... who are NOT the target audience for drum corps or potential sponsors. I am talking about FUTURE... and GROWTH. (btw - is it a simply hobby or has it become a passion of yours to vote down each one of my posts... I do find it a bit amusing :-) ).

Definitive proof of what exactly? Not really following you...

Sarcasm cannot diminish the validity of an argument... but just make me seem like an ########. The target market for drum corps is not the "has beens" (like me).. but the "will be's" or the "might be's". They have no clue what CYO Nationals are. I marched 20 years ago and even I have no idea what it is. I lived in Shrewsbury.

It's the sculptor, not the clay. Cadets used to get kids that couldn't blow their nose and repeatedly turned them into champions.

I believe a great instructional staff can get things out of members that the members didn't know they had in them to give.

Yes.

Don't forget "support staff". A well run organization provides all staff and members the tools they need while being well rested, well fed and safely delivered to all destinations. Members and staff with freedom and energy to be creative is powerful indeed.

I want to point out that this is at least the third post in which you suggest that the moderators here have ignored your requests for an explanation as to why your posts and threads were removed. Not only is this not true (for one thing, if you read the board guidelines it would be pretty clear why), but they did in fact explain to you why your post was moved to member services, and why the other posts were removed. Maybe they didn't respond as quickly as you would have liked, but they did in fact respond. The fact is, they don't have to explain anything to anyone. While this is a public board in that anyone can read or post, the board is owned by whatever private entity that runs it. They can allow, or disallow whatever they please, and can delete at will. Freedom of speech does not exist within a privately owned forum, so please stop posting threads or posts that imply that there is censorship going on. As for Teal Sound, I can certainly see why some people are concerned. I can also see why others might rush to the organization's defense. Nobody here really knows the entire story behind the hire. Nobody knows the entire story behind what the new hire did or didn't do. Nobody knows for sure what said administrator will or won't do in the future. The other thing to think about is his new role in the organization. According to the announcement, he will be "Program Facilitator", trusted with the hiring of staff, and programing the design of the show. Nowhere does it mention working with students. We all have our concerns about the move. But lets not crucify the entire organization just yet. If you don't feel comfortable allowing your child to march there, then don't. I don't think anyone here would tell you otherwise. If you feel strongly enough, email the corps. Perhaps they would be willing to share their thought process behind the hire with you. I am in no way defending Moody, or those who would take advantage of their influence over their students. I am simply suggesting that there is likely more to this story than any of us know about. Now, feel free to drive up my red negative number simply because you disagree with what I have to say.

1. Cavaliers 2. Bluecoats 3. Madison Scouts 4. Blue Devils 5. The Cadets 6. Carolina Crown 7. Santa Clara Vanguard 8. Blue Stars 9. Phantom Regiment 10. Boston Crusaders 11. Blue Knights 12. Spirit Of Atlanta

I don't see very much correlation between "inspiring performances" and competitive placement. They might be an incredibly inspiring 8th place corps. Who knows! I think it's safe to say they will NOT be an incredibly boring 5th place corps, though.

not

Look, I'm not drinking the "SCV to win in '12" punch, not by a long shot, but falling to 8th is unlikely when the biggest problems (design and brass scores) are being attended to in the form of JD and Wozniak. No, no I'm not saying that all problems will be fixed or that no backsliding will happen, I'm just saying that that's unlikely.

Actually, being a fan of good cymbal lines, yeah. I would absolutely rather talk about cymbals. I'm not discounting that this subject is important, but at this point, the subject has been discussed. There is nothing new to say. Some people are obviously more outraged than others. We exhausted the valid points on the subject about 10 pages ago (or really a few threads ago). Given, we love to beat up on some dead horses around here, and there are far worse subjects in that regard, but can you really tell me that anything could possibly be gained by another 15 pages of discussion on this subject? I totally understand the concern, and can see both sides of the argument, but this is a classic case of a stalemate.

Now hold on. Today's posts are a little short-sighted, IMO. DanielRay has an opportunity to be heard, and the attacks here are more personal than substantive. "Sounds crazy. Might work." ...is an attitude of most creative thinking. Let's stay on the topic. I read the slides first thing this morning, then went out at 8:30 to continue building a shed in my backyard. Beautiful day here. I got from the foundation to the roof trusses done in two days! (I'm sure many weekend hammer-swingers will appreciate that. One nice thing about hammering up sticks (especially with a nail gun!) is it gives you plenty of time to think about other stuff. I've considered seriously Dan's plan and I have questions, bordering on "issues" with it. I'd like to respond. But out of respect for the OP, let's let this thread get back to bringing back the old, big regionals and take the restructuring idea to another thread. Dan, would you please repost your thread with the link to your .pdf in a new thread? Call it "Restructuring DCI" or something. I'll post my thoughts there. So, what, specifically, about the old regionals was "fun" like it isn't today. What are the reasons that some of those things can't be integrated into today's show concepts? I liked standing on the bleacher seats in the pouring rain in 1974. Phantom did a track-side stand-up of their whole show but I don't remember the music. What I remember was watching the rain bounce off the drums, it seemed the rain actually "bent" with air coming from the horns, many had gone home, but there were probably 500 of us who stayed. They all packed the 50 and at that moment, for the first time in my life, I understood what "blowing your hair back" means. It was incredible. But, obviously, they wouldn't do that today. I liked pulling into town and seeing every billboard, restaurant, and street sign greeting the corps. "Welcome DCI Fans!" I always looked for that "first sign" as we approached town. Now-a-days, I'm stunned if I see one in the entire city. Can't the PR division at DCI connect with city officials to emphasize how much business DCI brings to town, encourage small discounts and a varied offering palate, and actually welcome the event to town? Or, does DCI have a PR division - that can expend those efforts? Maybe they do, but the enthusiasm sure seems "sparce" compared to past years.

Yes. It would be as big of an issue. Without awareness, we cannot know. What corps hires were also terrible ideas?

There is a bit more too it than that... The main issue is how DCI is organized. It needs to be structured and run, say, more like Apple, less like the UN. The business aspects of DCI needs to be completely separated from the political aspects and should be a dictatorship, not a consortia. The way the organization is set up and managed (mostly how the board is set up) creates serious limitations in terms of ability to achieve full potential in terms of revenue and profitability. Because it is run as a committee, basically only the most watered down approach, the one with the greatest amount of compromise and the largest consensus is the one that is selected. This leads to ineffective business decisions at best, counterproductive at worst. Take all of the emotional issues out of the equation... this is a fundamentally flawed and highly inefficient structure that was a good short-term fix when it was set up back before I was born. It is no longer effective, particularly in the context of current economic realities. There needs to be a complete overhaul of the operating and management structure. Discussion of any points, like how shows are run or managed, how revenue is distributed, etc. is pointless in the context of the current structure. Those issues are fairly minor. At the risk of further derailing this discussion... here are some quick thoughts on more specifically what I am getting at: Proposed DCI Restructure

and let me guess.... someone sat behind you and held a gun to your heard and forced you to read this thread, right?

Key words: children, safety. Neither are relevant to this discussion.

I completely agree... I mean, back in my day our horn books were so easy we'd throw in a few quarter notes mid-July to try to beef it up a bit.

Wait. I don't understand how people are making these predictions. We don't even know what our show is yet.

Wasn't comparing myself to him as an individual or innovator or even an all around guy. He was a great guy. I'm sort of a jerk. There are many paths to revenue besides invention. Anyway, it is valuable to compare yourself to individuals you respect and wish to emulate. You might not ever hit the target, but you'll at least be aiming in the right direction.

I've had discussions in the past. They didn't really go too far, as there are simply differences of operational philosophy (ex: I think DCI should get out of the business of anything other than event production and all other actives should be either discontinued, sourced to third parties or spun out into stand alone entities or joint-ventures) and organizational priority (I think first priority should be strengthening the headliner groups, then building the rest of World Class up to headliner status... with Open Class as more of an affiliated group). These differences in philosophy and priority seem to be non-starters at this stage, though I do feel some aspects of their philosophy and priorities are changing. A more fundamental issue is the basic structure of DCI. You could probably not come up with a more ineffective structure if you tried. It is essential a consortia model, but with individual members having distinct and competitive interests. I cannot even express how useless this model is. Once again, the rules congress should be split out and run by a committee composed of the member corps, entirely independent of the legally distinct event production business.... which would be managed more like a proper business... more an authoritarian dictatorship than a junior prom committee. I also think the management of this sort of reimagined DCI should not be mission or philosophy driven, but have profitability of events and media as priority. The individual performing organizations will set the tone/requirements for performer experience, in the same way that many performing artists do through contract riders. Again.. mission and philosophy at the core of DCI's operations is a distraction and, ironically, hinders their ability to support what is claimed as their mission and philosophy. Let the individual organizations be purpose driven... and just create a killer and highly-profitable event management and media production company that support the paid performing groups. Anyway, I'm not in any hurry and simply interested to see where things go in the near future (been a lot of changes lately), and if things happen that will create a better opportunity for the right kind of support. In the meantime, I'll keep complimenting, complaining, throwing out ideas and doing what I can here and there.