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I am sorry that DCI is the source of everything wrong that ever happened in drum corps for you. I have tried to imagine what it would be like if DCI had never formed. Here are some possible things that I imagine could have happened..... (1) a corps goes undefeated, wins VFW prelims, then falls to 10th because of a "uniform malfunction" during inspection in finals.........daddy tries to explain to his 9 year old son why a broken belt buckle can/should cost the best corps 9 places in the show, even if the audience didn't see inspection............. (2) a corps from the Pacific Northwest gets a score of 80-85 at every show in the first half of August, then gets a 63 at VFW prelims................ (3) a rule is created during 1976 for the disqualification of any corps wearing a "non-military" uniform, and the Bayonne Bridgemen are disqualified at VFW prelims.. later on, the Velvet Knights are disqualified as well........... (4) due to money "constraints", VFW and AL restrict prize money to the top 5 finishers only. They make this announcement in May. Since they control everything, they turn a deaf ear toward the concerned calls and letters from directors. (5) There is one company that makes valve-rotor horns, and since they are the only game in town, they now cost 6 times what other brass instruments do...... (6) A request by the Phantom Regiment and Madison Scouts to go to California during the season is refused by VFW/AL...."you will stay in your region until nationals" is the response given. No appeal is available. (7) A corps tries to take the road in school buses with no insurance. On their 1st excursion, they are stopped by police. The director is jailed, and the corps is immediately disbanded. (8) VFW/AL allows the Troopers and Argonne Rebels to travel due to geographic reasons. The other corps sue VFW/AL for granting "special privileges" to these corps..... The other corps prevail. Troopers and Argonne are forced to compete in their region only, and VFW/AL has to fork out much money as a result of the suits. (9) VFW/AL continue to hold their championships in regions all across the country. However, the corps are not set up for long travel....vehicle-wise or budget-wise, and at many of the championships, less than 1/2 of the major competitors are even there......including several of the very best corps........... (10) Not one judge is ever removed for poor performance.......ever.........even though they placed a corps 9th in a caption which they won at every other show that year, including prelims...........that judge has "called the show" at 3 national championships....... Do I believe that DCI was/is the "ultimate drum corps dream"?? No. However, DCI has always been run by the DIRECTORS OF THE COMPETING CORPS, and no major decisions could happen without a vote. It is not "some man" or "some corporation", but a consensus of directors. However, if you believe that VFW/AL was some kind of "competitive Eutopia", I don't think you have a strong argument there, either. I am not happy with all that has happened over the years.....the demise/loss of many great corps, the disturbing shrinkage in the sheer number of corps out there....these are 2 items that bother me greatly. However, I don't believe that you can place the blame solely on DCI, either. Money troubles, membership woes, and unrealistic competitive aspirations have killed many a corps. Right, wrong, or indifferent, the activity has changed immensely. Nobody knows if drum corps would even exist had things stayed the same. However, I still see kids learning life lessons in gyms and on practice fields, and corps that can still light it up on any given night. That keeps me coming back, and I hope that never changes. Yes, every corps begs for money, and it can get old.....however, it could be worse....I can at least SEE what the corps spend the money on, and frankly I am happy that the kids are traveling in decent buses, getting fed well, are covered by insurance, have decent equipment and uniforms.....and have good instruction......at least there is not a ton of money going into some CEO's pocket...........and I can tell you that I think people believe that staff and directors of corps are paid way more than they actually are.............and I see many "kids" become fine young men and women from their drum corps experience, and I think that remains....priceless......... GB

Maybe the makers of the sword gave 'holding' broadcast rights but not 'impaling' broadcast rights?

SCV continually steals Phantom's food.

"When I cut my turkey, something amazing happens..."

Due to an unfortunate combination of collard greens, bacon fat and flax seeds, along with a large helping of boiled potatos and way too much turkey.....DCI Thanksgiving dinner guests are sent running for the restrooms.......while BD plays a rendition of their 2010 production....."Through Your ###, Quickly"

Reasons why the 2011 DCI dinner goes not as planned: Blue Devils keep moving the house, causing everyone to be confused as where to go. The Cavaliers, still in an XtraordinarY mood, flip the table upside down, causing the food to spill everywhere. Boston revolts and refuses to show up. Copyrights prevent there from being Idaho potatoes, causing there to be an empty dish with the smell of potatoes and the visual blacked out. Feel free to add more and keep the topic rolling!

Actually, being a dinner, things would be delayed until hash browns were brought to the table. (Got to keep things on topic. )

Here you go again G, off in a side conversation with Ream without adult supervision.......and discussing percents and fractions to boot. Don't make me turn this thread around. BTW, the 99% don't look at you two with confusion.....they look at you with archaeologist tools! :-)

Ding, ding, ding!!! Ladies and gentlemen, DCP Statistics Dept are pleased to present Jeff Ream with....not one but two milestone achievements: The BFO Award and the first poster to reach the 16,000th identical post award. Join us in congratulating Jeff on this momentus, yet annoying, achievement. "It's like being pecked to death by a Duck"!

IIRC, *somewhere* on this forum in the past few days, I recall Tom Blair saying that judges or other factors will sometimes mess up shots and I'm sure that quite a bit of footage ends up on the cutting room floor when they are putting these together after season's end. Here's a great marketing idea for DCI...put together a "bloopers" DVD of some of the gaffe's that have never made it onto the "finished product" over the years. I bet it would be a hoot!

Believe me, it was worse when you played baritone! Been there, did that (twice).

not a good look.

The day after Thanksgiving we anxiously await the Macy's Parade. When the corps come by we wonder how they would have sounded with synths.

•A holy war breaks out when The Cadets bring both angel food and devil's food cake to the dinner. •Blue Devils forgot to add a kitchen in the house plans. •Cavaliers' drum major attempted to jump over the table at the end of dessert and stepped squarely in the pumpkin pie. •Herbert is unable to break open the can of Pillsbury biscuits. •Regiment's horn line keeps pushing apart the potatoes from the gravy. •The saying of grace takes a bad turn when Brandt Crocker states, "Imagine you're in gastric distress, and you want to fart." •Bluecoats are in charge of setting the table and put each guest's fork, spoon, knife and salad fork in a different corner. •Jay-Z doesn't allow anyone to take video of the table decorations. •All the desserts Blue Stars' brought start out looking bad, but look better as the L-tryptophan from the turkey kicks in. •The guests from Spirit of Atlanta draw a chalk outline around the corpse of the turkey. •The vampire queen from Glassmen keeps trying to bite the turkey on everyone else's plate. •Members from Troopers' horn line insist on singing a musical grace and draw out the "Amen" so long, everyone's food gets cold. •The Academy keeps REpeating their request for more yams. •Colts bring carving knives that won't slice the ham due to having jagged edges. •Crossmen keep talking about the legendary Thanksgiving dinners of the past. •Pacific Crest keeps pushing other guests away from the table, pulls the turkey's drumsticks apart, twists the cap on the mayonnaise so tight that no one else can open it and then turns over the table. •The host of the dinner can't figure out what section with which they should seat Teal Sound's violinist, rock guitarist and electronic woodwind player. •Everyone complains about having their wallets pickpocketed after Mandarins send over forty thieves. •Tensions rise when the host refuses to open the mysterious orange box that Cascades claim is full of really neat cookies. •Panic sets in when the jungle flowers Jersey Surf brought for table decorations turn on the guests and start devouring them. •Pioneer brings a cured ham that is dyed green. •Blue Devils B, Oregon Crusaders and Vanguard Cadets qualify to be seated at the main table, but aren't allowed in the group photo afterwards.

1. 761.68 views per day on average. 2. 8.18 replies per day on average. 3. Originated 2/11/2005 4. Anticipated to crest the 2 million view mark on 4/20/2012 5. Currently consists of 2,020 pages 6. If we assume one new photo per page, over 2,000 historical drum corps photos, probably more 7. This thread has never fallen off the first page of the Historical Junior Corps Discussion Forum since first posted (according to OP) Please add yours

If more corps back in the day understood that they were businesses, there would be more corps in existence today.

Suncoast 1985 "Midnight in Miami" Blue Devils 1992 "When a Man Loves a Woman"

:worthy: :worthy: I'm glad someone thinks the same thing. :) when I'm old and hopefully DCI is still around, instead of being an old, grumpy, dinosaur that complains that no corps jazz run anymore or that back in my day amps and synths were the greatest, I'm going to support the activity, no matter what it becomes.

The Madison Scouts have nothing to prove. Their reputation has been well established in the Drum Corps world. I mean come on....who the hell never heard of the Madison Scouts?

hoping mine are delivered sometime before thanksgiving for a change. i know it's asking for the moon since i only ordered them a half year in advance.

That guy needs to chill.

"Judge traps of the rich and famous!"

OK my bad, I read what you put in the numbers and got so interested I missed the intro.. LOL, I'm 54 also and can dig where the last part of this post came from. Also way interested in early (before my time) corps history and can see some of your points. Thing to remember about AL/VFW is the lack of shows they were actually involved in. Only real AL/VFW shows were connected with a state or the national convention. Would be kinda like DCI having Finals but leaving other groups run regular season shows. And yeppers on AL/VFW not being as big or strong as the past. Biggest groups ever in them were WWI (none left) and WWII vets (rapidly losing them). Wow, a -2 for misreading....

You misread things.....I said that these are things I imagine "could have" happened if DCI was never formed and VFW/AL remained the 2 biggest shows and rule makers...... That said.... (1) there were years where a corps lost a major show, or prelims (and a few times, SEVERAL places) due to inspection....... (2) there was never a year that a uniform style was outlawed.....however, when Bayonne introduced that uniform in 1976, it caused quite a stir, especially among "traditional" folks............keep in mind that the Bridgemen had worn a very traditional military-style uniform prior to 1976........ (5) (again, hypothetical.....however, when they changed to any key horns a few years ago, there were only a few companies left making G bugles, and they cost as much or more than Bb horns............I was a corps member when they went from one valve/valve rotor to two valve horns........within a few years, nobody was making valve rotor anymore that I know of..........if VFW/AL never approved additional valves, which is a possibility, there may have only been one or 2 manufacturers after awhile....therefore, a serious possibility of price hikes......... (6-8) AL/VFW didn't have "touring" rules........however, I would not have been surprised if they and others (UOEC, Midwest, and other associations) would have tried to pass such rules in the future......there was much complaining that certain regions were "favored" at VFW............the Troopers were the first corps who toured regularly and almost exclusively, due to the lack of proximity to shows with major competitors.........at a time when nobody else was doing that. VFW didn't have regionals or regions per say, but both they and AL moved their title shows around almost as much as DCI did, in a time when making a cross-continent (or even half way) trip was monumental for a corps. 1963 VFW Nationals were held in SEATTLE, and thus only a few major competitors made the trip....... The bottom line is this.........some try to infer that the "good ole days" were "Eutopia" in terms of how things worked and were set-up.........the truth is that DCI would have never happened if things were so ideal then, and there were more than a few folks who thought change was needed..........we can only speculate what would have happened if DCI was never formed...........the older I get, this seems to work well for me..... (1) it is fine to remember the great times and days of the past (2) avoiding mistakes from the past can be quite beneficial (3) trying to make today good is never a bad idea..... (4) there are still great things (and great people) out there today......including kids......... (5) be glad if you are around tomorrow, and hopefully there will be some great things down the road, too.... Unfortunately, some are still stuck at the end of step 1............keep in mind I'm 54, not 20, so I can say that with experience.... GB

This is just next week, folks! Looking forward to seeing a lot of you there. Good people, good music and a lot of fun to be with. See you then.

I rest my case! Lol!

Thanksgiving Dinner is generally not a time to be bathing in chocolate delights.... but if you insist, Michael.

If I had to stipulate, I'd say that maybe the judges got into the way of the camera man, or maybe the camera man wasn't in position to get the best show (I think the host on the Finals FN is a little awkward, if not less than ideal). I'm sure in a situation where the camera men only have one chance to get the best shot finals night, they almost have to use chunks from other performances to get the most desired cinematography for each corps' performance.

Fixed.

sory, but I'm the head ######## round these parts that said.....no designers are truly getting rich off of this activity unless they write, oh 80 shows a year. otherwise you just described DCI in the same way you could describe college football. bet you love that right? or Congress? not so much. however in todays economic climate, you can not run a drum corps for what you did when you marched. you cant even doa decent parade corps on that. vets organizations...barely alive. can barely afford things now especially with states cutting down on their "raffles" and prizes etc.CYO pretty much gaveup on everything except basketball and even in some areas they did give up on that. that said, most of your argument, IMO, stems with your dislike of the on field product and you falling for many overly perpetuated myths about the activity. and for what some of these directors get paid for the hours they put in....please. go tell your boss you want to work those hours and get paid accordingly

Now that we've been properly introduced, I don't mind suggesting you're exaggerating a bit. Sure, there is a business component to DCI. And it's true that the product DCI sells derives from the commitment and energy of the young people who sweat out the summer. Don't start the "Occupy Lucas Oil" movement just yet though. This isn't ExxonMobil or Goldman Sachs. Some things might have changed less than you think. Money was leaking out of the drum corps tubing before DCI too. Back then your ticket purchases supported a wealth of non-drum corps services and activities. Church and veterans groups used drum corps to raise funds for themselves, not just the corps. Indeed, that drain was among the very reasons why the combine and DCI got a start. The church/veterans infrastructure subsequently dispersed (church) or crumbled (veterans) to be replaced in the drum corps context by organizations devoted to a single purpose. So began an evolution from volunteer to paid leaderships. Churches and veterans groups had a ready supply of resources and volunteers. These news custom organizations had to import both. Paying people to do so isn't nefarious, it's natural. And given that many of these organizations require full-time, 12-month attention, it's also natural that the best leaders might rate competitive salaries. Again context: that $100K salary today is the equivalent of maybe $23K in 1975. Healthy? Yes. Worthy of Occupy Wall Street attention? I don't think so. So what I'm saying is DCI is different and the same. We can focus on the difference. Or we can focus on the achievements. My idea of "Occupy Lucas Oil" is three days in August. Glory. HH

I'm sure it must be painful to see the version of drum corps you grew up with loved fade away. But don't blame the survivors for the demise of the type of corps you knew and loved. DCI didn't kill it . . . sure, DCI has made some unfortunate decisions, but DCI isn't large enough or powerful to kill off the hundreds of little competitive corps and the untold numbers of non or partially competitive corps that once existed. DCI found a way to survive. When all those organizations that once sponsored drum corps were shrinking and dying, and were cutting corps loose left and right, the corps that joined DCI found a way to endure. Sure, it was inadvertent, but they did it. Just be glad that drum corps has managed to endure in some form or fashion. Without DCI it wouldn't have. And, though you may not like to here it, there are thousands of competitive corps style bands that share 80%-90% of the qualities that you loved about those old corps.

The the argument that what drum corps offered pre-dci doesn't exist, I believe it still does exist, with the tons of great high school programs that students can participate in for free or little cost and get a BETTER experience than corps offered BITD. Heck even better than some current corps. Have those corps been replaced? Not exactly, but I think there is a better option now. Also, the economy was quite different back then.. in fact a lot was different. Things change... get over it already. Yah?

Do not know the rest but Ed Warren if it is the same one has been a DCI judge for a long time and should give them some good experience and help them progress.

Either: B-L-U-E-D-E-V-I-L-S or C-A-D-E-T-S (Depending on your preference)

A Blue Knights cooking disaster (otherwise known as English food) leads to insulting comments about "The Turkey My Mouth Skipped".

It snows and everyone freezes because the Blue Devils forgot the walls.

The world will end because DCI edited Crown's pre-show off the DVDs.

Well, then; I'm guessing you won't be disappointed. May I have your piece of the anniversary cake?

Madison Scouts is the new Madison Scouts.

Oregon Crusaders are fighting for the top 5! We are fighting against groups that have TV spots on Animal Planet and other groups with HUGE CORPORATE sponsorship. Regardless of your concerns about CHASE bank, we ask you to vote to support drum corps, especially a younger team that needs every bit of support from the marching arts community. Please vote, friends, please vote. Vote for Oregon Crusaders HERE! Travis Moddison Oregon Crusaders Brass Caption Supervisor

Starring the Blue Devils "perfect 20" color guard.

Perhaps you guys are right but I have had a couple bad experiences with chase so I won't be voting as much as I think it might be a good thing I'm still not convinced.

It cost nothing? really? what about giving Chase your personal information? I'm sorry but I don't think it's worth it. You can give your personal info to Chase but I won't. I don't trust them. Nothing is "free".

George Hopkins holds up everything until new hash marks are painted on the table. (You know someone had to say it. )

Excuse me? Tone WHAT down! I stated a FACT about the geographic location of the Madison Scouts. Then, I commented on how Madison has been "dancing" in their show for decades - which is ALSO a "FACT". Then I get blasted by some guy for posting my thoughts after being on here for a day. I've done NOTHING wrong!

Based on their 2011 scores I can see why you'd think Music City will make Open Class Finals.....oh wait, you meant World Class Semis????? Well that's a big, fat grits covered no.

I assume that even the folks who put together the DVD's/Blu-rays are over the "hey, we need to squeak a few more tenths out of the show what should we do?" "I don't know, kill someone off again?" "Sigh...OK"

Hopefully all those who think what you say are gone. Just like I hope you are. Go away from DCI. Don't want ya, certainly don't need ya!

when everyone realizes there is no dessert (IOW retreat) at this dinner.....