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DCA Flashback of the week! 2003 DCA World Champion - Caballeros Hawthorne, NJ FLASHBACK

Although he doesn't need me to defend him, 7567BC has been in the activity as a member and visual instructor since the 70s, AND he is a HUGE supporter of modern drum corps including the guards...which is why it is folly to try to paint everyone with the same brush. As for me, since I turn 52 next month I suppose I am also a dinosaur. Having said that, the orginal poster asked about "rifle lines", which on its own really refers to a whole different era. Yes, I do wish some guards knew how to march (for example in a parade situation), but I also honor the triad of responsibilites today's guard vocabulary entails..it simply isn't either/or. BTW, if you look at the DVD, Boston 2009's rifles can be seen spinning "doubletime" at the end of the show utilizing the EXACT same technique as BAC's rifles in 1977. Guess what? BOTH WERE GREAT.

Corpsband, You seem to be an angry person. I hope you get over it. When I was a kid in the 50s, Mother and her sister (they are both gone now after long lives) would take me to the Ballet, usually for Aaron Copland - Rodeo and Billy the Kid. The music knocked my socks off ( never one for men in tights, but you can't takeaway from the skills and athleticism of Villela, Nureyev and Barishnikov). Dad was also taking me to Drum Corps. Saw Maria Tallchief and Alicia Alonso dance with Ballet Russe de Monte Carlo. For younger folks, and I don't mean to be pedantic, this was the Company of Serge Diaghilev whose lead dancer was Vaclav Nijinsky. Perhaps the most famous Company in the history of dance (and I don't leave out Martha Graham, Balanchine, or even Isadora Duncan) I've seen plenty of dance (No, I never saw the Diaghilev Company. but when the way-back machine gets perfected, I might go there) I stand behind my comments, or maybe in front of them, but Gallagher is in the hospital again, so we are temporarily reprieved from the smashing watermelons. Please withhold the brickbats. They are not edible. Kevin

Please send me some of what you're smoking. Really? A good staff could teach all necessary marching skills in an hour? Guards NEVER had any spatial awareness until recently? And they were stupid too? And marching was criminally easy and could be taught cleaned and MASTERED in a matter of hours. You are a jacka## to think that way and incredibly insulting to everyone whoever marched or taught "way back then". Your statements are so ridiculously unfounded they are laughable. Today's guards know what they know because of guards who came before them and have been teaching them for years. Those you criticize are largely responsible for what you see on the field today; however, I doubt your ability to discern quality and understand the differences from years ago and today.

But since things have been leaking... I do think the cadets 2001 version of the other song they chose can be improved upon so glad they also made that selection. But the working title "aMuse in Me" is intriguing, need the official announcement to make any sense of it. Laughter is art of the individual? Not sure... . Also heard some Adel from a camp video (I won't say the song). But expecting the Bluecoats to be "rolling in the deep" this year with all this stuff!!! :D

> They fall short? Really? This is DCI.

As a former member of a solid rifle line from the mid-70s I'm going to throw in my 1 ½ cents. As I've noted before – there was a 35 year gap from my last show as a marching member and my return to the activity attending shows. I was stunned by the differences. My first reaction was "OMG – what have theydone!". By Indy in 2010 I was appreciating the changes more and by Indy in 2011 I had a much better appreciation for "today's guard". Rifle-lines of "my day" and today's lines are apples and oranges. Neither is better, neither is worse – both can be appreciated but they cannot be directly compared. The equipment is significantly different today and the scoring system is different (creativity vs. precision). You simply cannot compare movement with a 7 pound rifle heavily weighted to the butt to what you can do with a 2.5 pound relatively even weighted rifle. You cannot compare movement with a solid metal flag pole twice your height with a spike on top with what can be done today. And today's uniform/costume allows for much more movement. Each generation has to try to accomplish the most that will maximize their points today and minimize ticks in "my day". That doesn't make one better or worse – just different. Are today's guard in better shape? Who knows. I do believe they are taken much better care of than in my day. Just the food truck concept alone gives them that edge. Yet I'd say that if you put my 16-year old body in today's guard system I think I'd kick butt just as much now as I did then. I've downloaded a number of new and old shows to my iPod. One significant difference between then and today – I can tell exactly what the rifle line is doing in some of the older shows – even if I've never seen the actual show. You can so clearly hear the precision of spin-spin-spin-hold – toss – wait – catch. We were actually another instrument on the field –I miss that in today's guard. It does seem to me that today's guard is too separated from the rest of the corps. In that respect - I understand the comments that today's guard is an "extra" - that doesn't mean I agree with those comments - I just understand them. With all that being said – I would love to see a 2012 guard enter the field, in formation and in step – do the creative things they can do today – then leave the field in formation and in step and they would quickly go on my list of "best of both worlds." (edited because apparently copying comments from Word to make sure everything is spelled correctly ends up with spaces being deleted when pasted into here - sorry if I didn't catch them all.

I get what you're saying Ed about the sheets. However, the activity has changed at the hands of the show designers, not the judges sheets. Programs are more sophisticated these days which are a result of designers raising the bar every year. Rehearsal time can't really be compared to corps of yesteryear anyway because the process has become more efficient for most groups so more can get done in less time. Sure, there are some corps that still do reps for the sake of doing reps but more corps have figured out that rehearsing mistakes is a waste of everyone's time. The efficiency can be attributed to better rehearsal etiquette, which can only happen when you have members coming into the program with a more mature skillset. I think you'd be hard-pressed to find a top group having to teach the basic skills anymore, instead just getting everyone using the same technique of that particular corps.

This thread epitomizes how so many "old school" drum corps folks talk about modern drum corps. Respect is earned not given away. Posters like Kdoh , Cordog, and 7567BC summarily dismiss today's guards as 'window dressing' without having an inkling of a sniff of a semblance of a clue about the talent level and abilities of today's performers. And yet they're the first to complain about modern performers having no respect for the history of the activity (which in my experience isn't true -- corps have a lot of respect for their heritage.) Is it really so surprising that they're ignored like so much hot air? Yes yes I know. There *are* folks that 'get it' as well. But I think too often we like to overlook the impact of those who don't. </soapbox>

I totally see the same thing.. How can the weapons be perfect in the air with such poor free hands at the release?

Cordog, I think those rose colored goggles you're wearing are not only affecting your sense of perspective, but they must be giving you a headache or something, 'cause they also seem to be making you cranky, and maybe just a little bit unpleasant. Without getting into the differences in style, required skill set, or any of the myriad factors that separate old school from new wave, let's just say that it's difficult to compare apples to oranges. But whether modern-era or golden-age, the accomplishments of the best guards are the result of talent, dedication and a commitment to excellence that has been, and remains, a staple of the drum corps ethic. And though different in many ways, both are spectacular demonstrations of skill and artistry in their own right. Sorry, but that old today's-kids-couldn't-even-carry-[insert name of classic guard from back in the day]'s-leather-rifle-straps routine is a tired diatribe. Peace, Fred O.

Someone in a recent thread on another subject said that Planet posters were getting too easy going and complacent. I think he'd be happy with this thread. Kevin

ALL the things you mention that guards today are missing is because in the guard activity ( for decades now ) it isnt required... Guards have gone way beyond being just another section of the corps. Guards have far more responsibilities to the overall design, concept,message of the overall package than ever before I myself was in one of those back in the day lines and if you go back and watch some videos of corps you speak of and I have, it was great but wanst as good as even I remember at the time. It wasnt as flawless .. We tend to have selective memories..Dont get me wrong it was hot ...especially for the time BUT since then for many years now I have taught in WGI, DCI and DCA and whats required of guards today..including excellence is far beyond what we did, just as show design has evolved over the years. This by no means takes anything aways from back in the day...its just different..but SO ARE MOST THINGS IN THE WORLD from then to now.....and why wouldnt it be...it would be a sad day if drum corps didnt evolve in over 40 years....JMO

I must disagree with this. Look at the precision of the guard books in the 70's, 80's and 90's, in addition to the actual, "Marching and maneuvering", required by the guard members. Today most guard members do not ever attend basics with the corps proper, learn any form of a marching technique, or even learn, "Eight to five." The guards from the 70's and 80's did all of this in addition to performing an 11.5-13 minute show that was largely unison work. I sat at Lucas Oil last year at Finals and watched more than one finalist guard never actually "March" and even then only have 24-36 counts of full color guard unison work their ENTIRE show. Movement/body vocabulary may be taking more of a place of importance on the field on the guard sheets of today, but if one wanted that, one could attend WGI. Most DCI guards these days do not even learn double time with rifles or double time with flags. Let's see them do 1000 counts of either, just as one facet of a typical warm-up back in the day. You think a rifle line of today could perform the rifle work from Danny Boy in 1980 with that degree of cleanliness? Or Slaughter? You stop the DVD at any point in 1980 27th Lancers or Scouts (or many other years of either), and the rifle and flag tosses are not only uniform in height, but in velocity of rotation. You do not see that at all today. Give me a flawless triple, quad, or five, caught flat with the echo of the uniform "thwappp" of the leather strap, from and entire rifle line or guard, over one featured performer chunking a 7 or 8 and catching it at an angle or worse, like catching a baby thrown from a burning building, any day.

I'm not diminishing what we did. I loved what we did. I often find myself pining for my marching days. It was one of the most formational experiences of my life. I don't think I'm taking anything away from our accomplishments to say that the activity has become considerably more demanding as it's evolved. To me, it only makes sense that an activity would get complex with time. Is anyone going to argue that figure skating is more demanding today than it was 10, 20 or 50 years ago? True enough, you'll hear older commentators say that they preferred figure skating back when the scoring valued the artistic elements more. But is anyone really going to argue that today's figure skaters are doing far more difficult work than in decades before? I have no problem with someone saying that the greatest guards were of ___ era. I have my preferences too. But my original point is that the activity has evolved to the place that most of us who were part of those late '70s and early '80s guards could not compete in today's guards. I don't think that's an outlandish statement, and I don't think it takes anything away from the accomplishments of generations of color guards. Were it not for the work I did, the programs that today's guards are doing wouldn't have been possible.

Stu: I'm concerned some may think we should get a room. On the plus side, there's a large number of them available at the hotels the Accent camps were going to use.

Bluecoats 2012: "Metropolis, part 2: The Future Was Yesterday"

Dress the ushers in green polos and khakis. Have them wander around aimlessly during the ceremony while speaking into tape recorders. Serve walking tacos and PB&J at the reception. Have large vats of Koolaid instead of champagne. Instead of a cake, build a large pyramid of your choice of off-brand packaged cookies. Bride and her party should walk down the aisle to a Dr. Beat . . . provide no other music. If someone's out of step then stop, reset, and repeat until it's correct. Have the flower girl push a line striper instead of scattering petals. Throw jolly ranchers instead of rice to simulate an authentic retreat. Tie spray paint cans and bottles of gold bond to the getaway car.

AT THE ALTER, PRESENTING THEIR 2012 PROGRAM "TILL DEATH DO US PART", PLEASE WELCOME...

Trivia: Star marched a total of "one" gun line. The year was 1985, bless their hearts.

Get Brandt Crocker to officiate!

THE 2005 CADETS SWEEPING ALL CAPTIONS AND SUB CAPTIONS IN FINALS!

Nice video but someone needs to get the DCI folks a calendar. This is year 41 for DCI not 40.

Actually it seems to be *really crowded* at the top right now. Like, standing room only crowded.

Its funny, but i know EXACTLY who he's talking about.. He marched for colts, cavaliers and crown before he went to BD. Guess he must really want a ring if he's doing all that hoping around

FUSION DECLARES OPEN CLASS Fusion Core goes OPEN!! As the Core completes five years of history making accomplishments we are excited to declare Open Class for the 2012 season. Formed in 2007, Fusion successfully competed in Class A finals in 2008, 2010 & 2011; earning High Caption Awards in Brass, Visual and Guard at the 2008 Championships. Fusion won the 2010 Class A Championship title with High Caption Awards in Visual Effect, Music Effect, Brass & Color Guard. 2011 brought continued success, building upon the solid foundations, placing in the Top Ten and making history as one of the first Class A Corps to earn a voting right within the DCA Organization. As we move into the 2012 season we’re gonna make you an offer you can't refuse! As individual members pledge lifelong loyalty, friendship, connections, family ties, trust, loyalty and obedience - this will be the glue that holds us together to carry out “The HIT.” Diving head first into beats of a different nature, Fusion’s dramatic production parallels the fight to the top and the struggles to stay there present in both the drum corps activity and traditional mob rivalries. Fusion Core is accepting members in all sections for the 2012 season - brass, battery percussion, front ensemble and color guard. If you want to march an incredible show, be a part of a growing, championship-caliber organization, receive expert instruction from an awesome staff, and spend your summer with a group of dedicated and talented members, then Fusion is the place for you. Don’t end up “swimming with the fishes” check out FC12 and join the family!! There are open positions in all sections so come on down to The CORE!! It will be an exciting year!!

I totally agree with you!!!! Look at the rifle line from 76 blue devils and stop the tape. You don't see ANYTHING like that now days. It's not guard anymore.

Window dressing was never mentioned and I did not summarily dismiss the guards of today. One would be wise to not arbitrarily lump individuals into groups. I currently instruct DCI, WGI, DCA, DCUK/DCE and while the multiple responsibilities that are required with the inclusion of MORE lower body work in the guard books of today is admirable, to say the guards of decades past have no spatial awareness is comical. The vocabulary may be somewhat more demanding physically due to the inclusion of more dance/movement. However, the precision required from full unit phrasing is no less in decades past than is what is required today. There are reasons you do not see extended phrases of uniform work in most marching units today, and that is because they would not be clean. The guards were integral in show design before and still are today, but the judging is subjective and not based on precision. Look at some recent recaps and validate how a DCI winning guard/corps can get a perfect visual and/or guard score with drops and phrasing. I have embraced change and for that reason still instruct on many levels. That is not to say I do not respect and admire the past.

Jersey Surf stole my heart in 2002? when they took the field at Camp Randall wearing Heisman Trophy winner Ron Dayne's jersey and playing a spirited rendition of "On Wisconsin". I'm so happy that everyone involved has made such a big effort in recruiting, programming and expanding their Summer tour. Looking forward to Surf this Summer.

Not enough +1's for this IMO.

Has nothing to do with the sheets, a full rehearsal schedule like that is what makes a field corps great. No secret recipe other than everyone showing up and coming prepared. You need the time together to gel and make consistency the norm.

In that same vein, "Elks Parade" is another fun one. regards, Fred O.

as someone who also was part of back in the day you also may agree ( or not )..lol...although what we did was great for the time our span of vocabulary was far less then today so cleaning was a tad easier....didnt seen it at the time BUT the layered responsibility of a guard member today is unbelievable....

I agree with this.

If you look at the recaps from 1988 prelims you will see the Madison guard scored a 99 out of 100 and that was with 6 corps, including the up to then undefeated Blue Devils, left to perform. The judge must have been pretty confident in his scoring to pop a number like that. 27th was, "da bawls" and Madison was as well. Can't go wrong with either group.

the key is the number of paying fans. the corps make money from finals. Annapolis is setp 1. the regions need to keep building the buzz

The Knockout: Rocky's Last Fight (He means it this time)

I read the OP and I was trying to figure out where BD was rehearsing that it was 115 degrees in March. Then I realized someone was playing thread necro.

You jest...but you're right. I was in a top 5 guard, but I was out of shape (not talking about overweight...I do understand that you can be overweight and in shape), ate poorly, and smoked. A lot of what I'm noting is that the physical demand of today's guard programs is considerably greater. I could not do it with the kind of condition I was in then...nor now (though I'm actually in much better shape now for my age than I was then...oddly). Don't get me wrong. We developed a great deal of upper body strength and probably a different kind of body control back in the day. Rifles were HEAVY back in the day. And we were so much more precise than anything I see on the field today. But I really suspect that you could take a top guard from today, put them into a 1980 guard program, and they'd be successful much quicker than the other way around.

Thirty years ago I went to a wedding. The bride's family had a family member who marched with 27th, the groom's side had a BostonCrusader, and while they were heated rivals, they found a common activity—bashing North Star. Well, you can save money on a trumpeter. If the hijinks that supposedly happen on tour are true, just have the groom's drum corps buddies plan the bachelor party. It may be tame in comparison. You could plan a destination wedding where everyone travels together on busses that either break down or have air-conditioning and bathrooms that do not work. You can sell souvenirs to pay for the reception. Instead of going to a restaurant or hall for a reception,use a catering truck. Tuna fish sandwiches, peanut butter and jelly, bug juice,and one scoop of ice cream will do. Hire an old schooler and new schooler as wedding planners.They can argue about whether a pipe organ is better than an electronic one, whether the singer should or should not use amplification. If you go the nontraditional route, the old schooler will say the wedding is invalid and if its traditional,the new schooler will tell you are stupid and do not know anything aboutweddings. It will be mild in comparison to the Key of G vs. B-flat debates. On a serious note, drum corps have wonderful characteristicsthat make them unique. Find out about the traditions of your daughter's formercorps and the corps of her fiancé. Whether it's colors, a song that defines thecorps, or a tradition, I'm sure it can be incorporated, and most importantly, congratulationsto your daughter and son-in-law to be on their engagement!

I suppose a honeymoon on the gym floor is not what you had in mind Depending where the wedding will be and on what date, you might be able to 'rent' some brass and perc from a local corps to perform. Or, if former corps members are on the invite list, recruit them to perform?

Thanks for all the encouragement guys!!! We're excited :). See you all on the 50

Ah, yes, "Icarus". I felt like I had been waiting forever for the opportunity to arrange this tune. The Blue Devils could have carried it off no doubt, but I had already moved on from there and the Westshoremen had all the right stuff that year. Those cats were musically hip, sophisticated and confident...all the things (you are) that the best DCA corps would become over the next several years. In short, they were ahead of the curve. I positively relished being with them at that time. If the chart was a little too understated, blame me. Robb and I took our best shot, and the visual, well you really couldn't argue with that given the cats involved. They were (still are) superior. My hat is off to the corps who topped us, irrespective of the judges. They also gave their best effort. Westshore, in my opinion, set the tone for the kind of smooth approach which became a standard for the next several seasons and I for one am very proud of having been a part of that.

Lots of Scouts years to choose from...

That would be absolutely awesome!!!

I marched 16 years of corps, both in DCI and DCA, and I was never asked to play a G-pentatonic scale, or any pentatonic scale, or mixolydian, or anything like that. I was wondering why someone would need to know those scales in a mini-corps type setting?

?

BLASPHEMY!!!

Please, please, PLEASE!!! Do not mistake a dislike for a particular corps' show or brass book or visual program as a slam against the organization itself. As heated and vitriolic as these forums can be (especially as we wind down to finals), I think you'd be hard pressed to find a single member on here who literally hates any corps. I am not a BD fan. I generally don't like their shows. I generally get ###### when they win. And they do that a lot. So I'm a generally ###### off person. But what the organization does, the opportunities it provides, and the general overall experience that its members receive? I would never bash that. Your kid is getting the education of a lifetime. One that he/she should consider him/herself fortunate to receive, regardless of what we anonymous posters on DCP have to say about their show. That having been said, best of luck to your kid. May the best corps in Indy win.

Woah, how did I miss that part? So, your solution to stop people bashing on BD is to bash on literally every other corps? That's...I don't know what that is, actually.