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unfortunatly I think it was his old corps and yes I wish they were really coming back

TWISTED (twst) v. twist·ed 1. To move or progress in a winding course. 2. To alter or distort the mental, moral, or emotional character. 3. A contortion or distortion of the body. 4. To alter or distort the intended meaning. 5. A change in direction; a turn. 6. A personal inclination or eccentricity. 7. An unexpected change in a process or a departure from a pattern, often producing a distortion or perversion. Over the past 12 years, the San Francisco Renegades have defied tradition and shattered expectations with their groundbreaking and in your face style of drum corps. 2012 brings their most daring production yet – TWISTED. Featured music includes: "Twisted Nerve" by Bernard Herrmann "Death Hunt" by Bernard Herrmann "Uninvited" by Alanis Morissette "Break from Reality", an original composition by Brian Sears "Knights of Cydonia" by Muse

Some corps tour according to their budget, and some seem try and budget according to how they want to tour...and fall short. Put the dollars you have on the table, and make instruction/tour/design etc fit your dollars. You may not make the top 12, but you will be on the road serving kids for years to come.

For you, "D.B." stands for "###### Bag".

High camera everything. And a high camera of every show George zingali Designed so we can see the progression he took this activity on!!!

We corresponded years ago, asked him to let it go and focus on the now. I rarely repeat on a forum. Walter, I'm sorry, be strong as we thought we taught you how :) http://www.drumcorpsplanet.com/forums/index.php/topic/76716-old-wgi-photos/page__view__findpost__p__3087260

Man if someone did that with my old corps I'd be fuming. Totally uncool.

adding my disgust... suggestion - mods please dump this trash

This thread has seemed to have have gotten a little off track. I stand to be corrected, but I think NE Brigand really wanted to get at the issue of injuries, not football fields. I commented several months ago over a question about whether drummers should have practice stands or not, and that they should. The injury potential is not head trauma (heh, heh, heh - not getting into this subject), it is musculo-skeletal trauma. Many Corps recognize this and have conditioning programs. Neverthless, it doesn't eliminate the possibility of e.g. a compressed spinal disk because you've been hauling around a Tuba twelve or more hours a day for 56 consecutive days, that no amount of Icey-Hot will ever relieve . I have seen some comments that indicate that one was tougher in the older days. No way. DC was a weekend activity and 56 consecutive days didn't happen. As for the football field issue, so what? Remember Wind Band?

Annnnnndd.... dick.

that should be a bannable offense

I remember back in the mid to late 90's(97 if I remember right) Pioneer made the jump from DII to DI(now world class). Along with Pioneer there were many other wonderful corps, like Les Etoiles, Nite Express, Tarheel Sun, Southwind, Academie Musicale, Americanos, East Coast Jazz, and Patriots, who all had large memberships, and great shows and staff, and all placed fairly well in competitions. Unfortunately all those other corps I just mentioned have disappeared over the years. So what has made Pioneer successful over the last 17 years? They have never placed top 12, their highest placement was 16th in 2000. They are within a few hour drive of many successful finalist corps, including Cavaliers, Madison Scouts, Phantom Regiment, Blue Stars, and Colts. They are the longest corps to make the switch from DII to DI without ever making finals(Crown did it a couple of years before them, but made top 12 the first year they made the switch). It almost would seem the odds against Pioneer being successful, but yet they keep on performing every year. I know some people have commented they should go back to Open Class, but they must be doing something right, as almost every corps that was in their general placement range in the 90s is gone now. Any ideas what Pioneer has done to keep their corps alive, when so many others in their competition range weren't able to continue? I am guessing strong management would be a key, but do they have some large corporate sponsors? I notice there is hardly ever a line at their souvie booth, when all of your top 12 corps have long lines at alot of the shows. I know with the smaller corps the last few years, it probably means 1 or 2 less buses on the road which would save some on gas. But when they are always at the lower end of the World Class payscale, and their souvenir sales don't appear to be very good, it sometimes seem surprising that you don't hear the financial disasters that you hear about so many other corps. Mandarins are another corps that kind of falls in the group like Pioneer. Another great corps, extremely successful in the DII/III days, never quite made top 12 in World Class, also in the state as 3 other amazing corps with BD, SCV and Pacific Crest. Does anyone have any insight they could share as to how these 2 corps are successful(at least financially) even though they have never quite reached the status of top 12(or G8). Maybe something that could be shared so that other corps can also be successful? I really think these corps bring so much to the activity. Between these 2 corps, in the last 20+ years, there has only been one show that I haven't liked by them(music and design flaws, not the performers). Heck, I remember one year when Mandarins only had about 20 horns in the mid 90s, and they played a Doc Severinson song, and it just amazed me how nice they sounded, even with such a small corps. It has been great to see them grow over the years. I really hope these corps are able to continue with their success. I think these are the corps that have the hardest time. Competing with larger corps in the area, having to fight for souvie $$, and not getting the fans in early to see them in competition, and yet they keep going. To me, in a way, these almost seem like they are even more successful than the to 12, given the lack of fan support they receive. I can't wait to Pioneer, and Mandarins, as well as everyone else on the field this summer. Hopefully some other corps in the lower divisions are able to learn something by looking at the success even some of the smaller corps have had.

I'm thinking Jewpacabra.

So I was wondering: when a parish decided to no longer sponsor a corps, did they lock up the equipment so the new corps (like 27, BAC, Bridgemen, etc)have to obtain new stuff or was an arrangement made? Seems like the IC/ Reverie break wasn't very friendly.

It was pretty sweet having them in Bloomington in the week leading up to tour. I'll definitely miss seeing the dress rehearsals. But it does seem fitting that the Madison Scouts rehearse in Wisconsin.

congrats, you have 60% (now 50%) of the posts in this thread. Maybe going for a little known DCP record?

:spitting: :lol: I'm telling you man! I'm calling this thread an EPIC WIN!!! Here's a little riddle for ya... What do you get when you offer DCP one less subject to complain about? ANSWER: Absolutely NOTHING!

What possessed you to think this post was a good idea?

This just shows that you don't have the first clue what you're talking about. The financial obligations of Teal Sound the last two years in Open Class and the first two years in World Class were pretty much the same. One of the important things about the DCI World Class evaluation process is that they want to see if a corps can operate at a world class level BEFORE they are invited in. Teal Sound proved they belonged in spades. Additionally, when a corps enters World Class, they don't magically gain new expenses. If anything, it's a bit easier to balance income vs. expenses because of the larger payout over the course of a season. You're also wrong about Teal having little outside income. They play several convention events during the off-season, and that has provided a really nice chunk of change to the corps (not to mention parades during the season). It's pretty clear that you have an ax to grind against Teal Sound, for whatever reason (your posting history points to this), but here's fun fact for you: Did you know that Teal Sound has been in continuous operation longer than any corps in Florida history? No time off. Constant growth. Modest goals. You know who you can't say that about? Suncoast Sound, Florida Wave, Magic of Orlando, etc, etc...

People were too busy complaining about them rehearsing in other locations. lol

agreed. While I like the easy access of my ipad, computer, etc., there is NOTHING like watching the blu-ray on a 50 inch TV in 5.1 surround sound using the physical media - not a stream or download. As someone mentioned earlier, I imagine CD's, DVD's and blu-rays will eventually go away and give way to downloads, etc., but I hope that is later than sooner :) leed17 PS I also agree with the previous poster who mentioned the Kobold recordings being released too

You are right. But with spring training it's more like 90 straight days.

1976 :D

On the old 80s stuff....the OTHER camera angels that were missed....leave the camera on for a little after the show and let us hear the crowd appreciation....don't cut it off right after the last note...you miss things like the little girl at the end of 94 Xmen

Most people who have replied to your comments are former 27th Lancers. If they marched between 1976 and 1984, or were part of "Once More in 94," they gave me some of my favorite drum corps memories, so thank you. I was never a member of 27th, so my comments are not defending a beloved director or mentor. You do not believethe IC Reveries should have been put in the position of a sit-down strike. Youmay have a point though others disagree. However, to see a correlation between an event in 1966 and a corps that disbanded in 1986, a span of twenty years, doesn't make sense. While I can't remember which Massachusetts corps folded in1986 other than 27th, there were five or six others. In 1986 the Commonwealth was facing a recession, many schools were laying off teachers and cutting back on music and athletic programs in schools, and many organizationswere competing for fundraising dollars. 27th's ending was due to economic and recruitment challenges.

This! Or I'd be even happier with 13-24/25 on FN....

13-25 place corps on fan network offering all the way back to 1972 would be nice. Of course, I'd like to be able to buy a DVD of those as well so I can forever have access to them without having to pay a yearly subscription.

One of, if not the best statement I've read on the Planet. Ever! Nice work.

You have done that and more, Jim.

"Sattva" is a hindu term that is used in Yoga. It refers to an object or being having purity and resisting in creating evil in the world. Dave Monette borrows terms from Yoga for most of his instrument types. He's been involved in Yoga for many years and incorporates it in his business philosophy. You should definitely contact him and provide him the very important feedback you cited. I'm sure he, as does the rest of the world, would benefit greatly from your wisdom.

Their behavior at retreats......such class. NOT

I guess we can always count on drillman to twist events to fit his own view of the world. I guess, to some extent we all do that. Mr D is evidently not a fan of George B., or the 27th Lancers. That is his right. I can tell you from personal experience that George B could be a difficult man to work for. But I can also tell you that NO ONE loved his corps, or the activity, more than he did. Drillman probably isn't familiar with Anton J, or the many, many slights, outright insults, and complete misuses of his unchallenged power with regard to how the VFW Nationals was run. The Reveries were not the first corps to get "jobbed" by Tony. Over the many years of his hegemony there were literally dozens of corps that, quite innocently, got in his way, or somehow threatened some disruption to his Million Dollar Pageant of Drums, as the VFW modestly billed their annual extravaganza. Ask around, drillman. You'll hear some stories. George B was just the last, and most visible of the corps directors. And he was the only one with the courage, and the gear, to declare to the world, "F U, you miserable Bas***d! I'm not going to let you get away with shafting my kids and, by the way, the entire drum corps community!" Having met Tony on a few occasions, I don't think he was quite the evil mastermind that has become his legacy. He didn't give a rats a** about drum corps. He cherished his exalted position within the VFW, which meant that he had to kow tow to the very sleazy internal politics of the VFW. That show made A LOT of money for the VFW. That money came from having the best corps in the country show up every year, at their own expense, and put on the best show. Of the two Nationals, the VFW was, by far, the more prestigious. And Tony was very proud of that. The last thing he needed was for someone to make waves, to have the VFW brass become aware of the slightest problem. The VFW brass didn't give a rats a** about drum corp either. They enjoyed the money. And they enjoyed the contest. George B and the Reveries certainly got their attention. It was the beginning of the end for the VFW and the corps, and a huge impetus toward the formation of DCI. For all his many faults, Tony never tried to put any drum corps out of business. He needed them to show up and perform. Other governing bodies may have made it their mission to systematically weed out the weak, the unfit, the unwealthy. But the VFW never did. We may argue motives, tactics, and dream about conspiricies, but we are faced with the incontrovertible fact that drum corps has become, for whatever reason, increasingly marginalized. So, I'd say that the 1966 VFW finals was THE SINGLE most important event, for better or worse, in the entire history of drum corps. Tony was not the evil villain. And George B just might have been the most courageous person to ever lead a corps, anywhere. Again, my conclusion is only my opinion. The events are as they are.

JERK

This isn't funny, it's just cruel. I can't imagine what it must be like as a Dutch Boy alumnus to read this.

I marched in a Boston area CYO band in the mid to late 1970's, and the IC Reveries sit down strike was a part of drum corps lore here in Massachusetts. It was controversial. Some thought it was bold and powerful, usually 27th fans, some thought it sent a bad message, often those who marched with 27th's competitors. I'd like to share what may be an original perspective on the IC Reveries sit down strike leading to the 27th Lancers. Now I can't tell the story from the point of view of a maverick confronting the stodgy VFW rules and an old school pastor. That's the job of former 27th Lancers. While I am a Catholic priest today, I never knew Fr. Gallagher and my guess is he met his maker many years ago, so I can't share his side with any authority. However, I do understand how a Catholic parish that sponsored a drum corps worked, I know many of the priests who were spiritual directors of the drum corps,bands and drill teams, some of them were the founders and I've heard their stories. I have also served in three parishes with connections to the activity.Many corps of the 50's and 60's that attracted the best talent both as members and staff outgrew the parish structure, even in parishes where the pastor and director worked well together. Parishes were wonderful havens for average corps, and above average corps, but as a corps became a major contender, parishes could be too restrictive and people making decisions, may have had great intentions but didn't know all the intricacies of the activity. My guess is that the senior Reveries, who became the original members of the 27th Lancers needed more than what a parish could offer and in time, there would have been a 27th Lancers or the Reveries would have split from the parish, with or without a sit-down strike and perceived poor judging at the VFW Nationals. It wasn't the first time a corps outgrew a parish: Holy name Cadets, became Garfield Cadets, MPB Crusaders became Boston Crusaders, later St. Andrew's Bridgemen became just the Bridgemen . Drum corps history seems to have vindicated George Bonfiglio if he ever needed vindication, and his dedication to the corps he founded and his vision warrant the praise. Now I'm not sure I would have agreed with putting kids in the middle of a dispute today, but it was 1966. Sit down strikes were common, and as we know from the Civil Rights movement, they often worked. Also, is the thread about the right and wrong of the situation, or whether it was a famous story from a famous show. If people are still talking about it 46 years later, including someone like me who was three years old at thetime, it must have been quite a spectacle.

We were fed in my version of BITD. - Breakfast every day: One styrofoam cup of cereal - Lunch, provided only when rehearsing on the road, never when travelling: Two bread (wonder), one meat (bologna), one cheese (american processed cheese food product), possibly lettuce. No limit on mustard. - Dinner: I guess we were deprived because the corps never fed us dinner. Later on I moved to another corps, that had a food truck, and it was a miracle.

cadets and scv cadets for the whole package scv for some really nice music writing...especially that ballad

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to belittle the accomplishments of modern guard. I understand the overall physicality of the role is vastly increased. But one of the things you said highlights one of the modern trends I dislike: "for most of a typical show *someone* is spinning." As you said, Someone. Not Everyone. In fact, for a majority of the show, Everyone is hardly ever doing the same thing at the same time. The greatly increased difficulty of modern drum corps is achieved partially, IMO, by having fewer kids perform it. Super-difficult technical passages are relegated to groups of 3, or 6, or 10 kids, instead of the full 30-40 member guard or 80-member horn line. Sure, having three or four "pods" of guard performers doing three or four different functions and then merging them into the ensemble visual looks and seems really complex... but I would argue in many cases it's easier to clean than if all 40-members were doing the same difficult equipment work. And again, balance. I'm not saying we need 11-minutes of everyone doing the same thing, but we're down to almost nil in some shows. This isn't just a guard thing, it applies to music, too. Look at BD in, say 09 and 10. How much difficulty, really, is there in those ensemble brass books? Almost all of the difficulty in 2009 is in solo and small ensemble passages. How often is the whole ensemble performing at once? And when you attract the level of performers BD does, I certainly understand showcasing soloists, but again: balance.

I can't believe DCI would do that. I really hope it was just the local event staff's rules and saying it was from higher up.

####! You guys guessed it! But they are whole wheat waffles.... j/k

Contact Tony Sawyer at Elon with the email provided. He answers his emails quickly!

Bud, you could probably get a local industrial rent-all center to loan you one for the band season for a tax write off through your band parents 501c3.

)Only a few spots left: 3rd Soprano (1) 2nd Mellow (1) 3rd Bar/Euph (1) Electric Bass gtr. (1) These holes will NOT LAST LONG... so PM if u r interested - no dues except whatever travel costs u incur to/from reh's n showz. ****G Bugles ONLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ****Experts ONLY - reh's are to lock in the ensemble and discuss EMOTION.... not music theory, if u need to be reminded that your open 5th needs to be 5 cents sharp or if I ask u to play a G-Pentatonic scale and look at me like Scooby-Doo... then this is not the group for you. ****1st rehearsal will be on 4/21/12 in southern Orange County, CA, USA ..... only those who have been invited by me or on a solid recommendation will know the exact location. ****GLA Kickoff party will be on Friday 4/20 (thats a COINCIDENCE I SWEAR) LOC8XN TBD. THX ALISHA!!!! Chris Welke, CEO, Sr. Media Law Analyst, EP, Lonely Faction Prodxns (a non-profit org.) Director, The Greenlight Advantage Minicorps

BUT! With the added expenses, will they still get bottled water delivered to them in the lot? Or was that already cut to increase revenues to ensure their long-term viability as an organization?

That is actually debated.. it is illegal to discriminate against age in the hiring process, but it might not be illegal to simply ask for someone's age. I honestly don't know the truth, but after doing some research and taking a class in college dealing with this stuff, it seems like no one actually knows how to interpret the law. It's basically up to the person applying if you want to risk supplying the information, because many, many companies ask for information of applications that might not necessarily be legal. Most of the time it is just to establish identity, and if you are the legal working age (which many just simply ask if you are 18 or older). Also to complete background checks. It is quite easy to tell age just from education background, so it's not really needed to ask. In this case though, doing a background check, and making sure the CDL checks out and all that, it might be needed. And personally, being a non- profit youth organization they have a right to have all the information they want when it comes with spending a lot of time with young folk ages 14 to 21. That's just my opinion, legal or not!

Debating the legality of requesting a date of birth for a drum corps driving job? This is exactly what the organization had in mind when they started this thread.

I wish to gripe about your observation, but I fear the universe might open up another black hole.

So you DON'T want corps to turn into local community-serving organizations primarily designed to instill values of citizenship and patriotism in membership? You gotta pick one, man! I don't think football COULD disappear at the professional level; there is simply too much money. Ergo, there would still be venues for major shows. This would likely result in a super-corps scenario. Hm...

How is it obvious? Pioneer has been pulling a full tour while remaining financially stable for almost two decades. Maybe they don't meet your standards for World Class, but they meet DCI's (y'know, the ones that matter) . . . and in fact adhere to them more closely than some finalist corps have in the recent past.

This is the way I interpreted your post, Brigand. But after thinking about it while I've been absent, I recall all the stories here about practicing in parking lots and cow pastures. Somehow, I think that if you could find a flat spot that you could line, with maybe some hills, or even trees worth climbing, nearby, fans would pack the home side and enjoy the show. "If you build it..." most certainly applies to drum corps fans.