Leaderboard

This view is very skewed and, while you use enough straw men to make your explanation possible, you provide a solution with no proof. Friends was started as a charitable revenue stream that promised members great seats in exchange for their donation. Not completely dissimilar to getting tickets directly from corps, but distinct on one critical way - the loyalties of the members of FDCI. Besides the ability to get better seats than even the corps can provide, and despite the individual corps loyalties among Friends members, the vast majority of Friends donate directly to DCI via Friends instead of, or in addition to, donating to their favorite corps. In the block where I sit, there are staunch financial supporters of just about every corps, but the common thread throughout Friends is a desire to support the activity as a whole, and the direction of the activity, via Friends. Getting rid of the Friends program is a prime directive of the G7 because they believe, in their own hubris, that those dis-banded Friends will give to their favorite corps directly and, of course, those corps are all better at managing donations than DCI. Not to mention their belief that the portion of Friends revenue that ends up in the hands of the O-15 is wasted money. But I can also tell you that many of the Friends sitting around me would never consider giving the amount directly to corps that they give to DCI because they don't believe that the corps themselves will act in the best interest of the activity as a whole. I know this first hand and personally of several of the activity's largest financial supporters. They believe that DCI acts as a counterbalance against rogue ideas and/or directors and/or directions within the activity. If your explanation of the decline of Friends is correct, Dan, then we should see the charitable donations to the individual corps is increasing, particularly among the G7 who, incidentally, get the next-best pick of seat blocks at LOS. Yet, we do not see increases in charitable donations to the corps in general; in fact, just the opposite as those corps struggle to replace charitable contributions with "earned" income. So if Friends are buying tickets through their favorite corps then those are just ticket sales and not charitable contributions. With Friends, you always pay more for your package than the tickets themselves are worth - hence the charitable portion of the cost of membership. If the contribution levels of the corps is not increasing that either means that Friends are not giving as much to individual corps (as in just buying tickets), or Friends are leaving for some other reason. I've heard half-a-dozen Friends say that they continue to support DCI in spite of the actions of their favorite corps. And as long as there is this notion that the Friends program takes money from the individual corps coffers, there'll be little support behind actually asking ex-Friends why they are no longer donating. No matter how you slice it, the value of the premiums given to Friends is always less than the membership cost at any level. It was a revenue-generating idea at its core, and it worked well for many years until the leadership directors got it in their minds that those revenues belong to them. I contend that Friends is but another example of something that DCI did well that they stopped doing. And a fine example of why "going back" should be considered as a part of DCI's overall problems.

This. One thousand times this. There's almost no one with Mr. Weintein's incredible financial touch; the work of him and the associated persons and programs have set a national standard in music education and outdoor pageantry which was often based on recruitment from the state of Florida, which to compare, is ranked 49th in many important objective factors regarding the state of public education. Talk about a major pickup--but Mr. Weinstein and Spirit look like a great fit. Best wishes for success to him and everyone else in that organization! They made a fantastic move here.

bump!!!!!!!!!

Well in his live band he's rockin the contra! This was from SNL last night. (which was amazing)

Choose a cereal that best represents a drum corps.... Velvet Knights = Trix or Cocoa Puffs

Please join us tonight at 5pm Pacific / 6pm Mountain / 7pm Central / 8pm Eastern for a live streaming webcast of a concert featuring Tuba virtuoso Oystein Baadsvik ... free! A protégé of distinguished Indiana University music professor Harvey Phillips and Arnold Jacobs (40-year tuba player with the Chicago Symphony Orchestra), Baadsvik’s international career began in 1991 when he won two prizes at the prestigious Concours International d’Exécution Musical in Geneva. He has since carved out a unique career as a soloist, chamber player, lecturer, and recording artist who has performed around the world and is regarded the exemplar of his chosen instrument. Among his acclaimed repertoire are works by Ralph Vaughan Williams, John Williams, Trygve Madsen, and Jan Sandström. He’s played with such esteemed music groups as the Oslo, Bergen, and Warsaw Philharmonic Orchestras, the Taipei National Symphony Orchestra, the Singapore Philharmonic, and the Orchestra Victoria of Melbourne. Now, acclaimed tuba virtuoso Oystein Baadsvik performs with Minne-Brass small-corps ensemble on Sunday, March 10, at King of Kings Lutheran Church in Woodbury, MN. If you are on a computer, you can join us at the Minnesota Brass page: http://minnesotabrass.org/index.php/events/baadsvick-tuba-recital OR, if you are on a mobile device, please join us directly at: http://www.ustream.tv/channel/minnesota-brass. Oh ... did I mention it's free! ;-)

I think it's only fair to warn people that a Styx tune will be coming their way if they click 'play.'

Stu, there really is a lot out there to feel positive about. There is more marching music in the world now than there has ever been in history and it is growing, it just looks different than before... and that's ok. Top corps serve as both an inspirational and aspirational vehicle for youth. They have inspired thousands of kids to play instruments or to perform on a higher level in their own local bands. They have also trained generations of educators and instructors that provide methodology and quality instruction to groups literally around the world. You and I happen to see this whole thing very differently, which is fine. Anyway, I hope you may find these to have more suitable composition/framing. :-)

Stu, I have to say that you're coming perilously close to attacking Dan, the person, and that your suppositions about his motives for organizing those kids misses the fact those kids are standing there when they weren't before (according to Dan). Even if true, Dan wouldn't be the first person to start a "corps" with an ego the size of a barn (and I, personally, don't believe that Dan's ego is driving him). His motivations aside, is credit given for teaching kids to play and march? Your recent posts attacking him seem, increasingly, to forget that point.

Oh, how about 1974 or so thru 1989 or so. Just by coincidence those years seem to be looked back upon fondly as the salad days of dci. And please, spare us the..."oh what about so and so corps in 2007" as the exception to try to discredit the claim. Been there done that. Example, I LOVED last year's Cadets. Funny. The show our snobs look down their noses at - too easy...Christmas music-how cliche...how dare they put a "Jesus fish" on the field...oh, I'm so "offended"....(as if one has a right to not be offended).....Hey look at me typing random streams of consciousness - Just like GH! A few corps have held onto the idea that entertainment is important. Most others have not, for reason Kickhalts has very nicely explained. And, people vote with their wallets.

When was drum corps ever more about entertainment than today? Certainly not pre-DCI VFW era, when there were just as many points for 'cadence' and 'inspection' as there was for GE (10 for each). When there were 30 points for marching ex, and 20 each for music and drumming.

When art in general isn't focused on its audience I am not a fan. Performing, visual, whatever. I am not a fan of selfish artists... ALWAYS have your audience in mind. When you're writing, you are ALWAYS thinking about you're audience to make sure what you are writing is appropriate! Writing YO WASSUP PEEPS!!!!! as the greeting to an email you are sending out to a bunch of business partners is not always the best idea! The performing arts should ALWAYS be about the audience. This has always been my opinion. It's not about winning a championship. The competition? That is there to make it even more interesting to the fans... and ya know what... in DCI IT'S NOT INTERESTING. NO ONE WANTS TO SEE BD WIN ANYMORE IN THE NExT FIVE YEARS except for BD honks... unless they put out a ridiculously entertaining show that makes the crowd throw babies the entire show like Madison 95 or something. Which BTW.. didn't win the championship, and was the fan favorite that year, by far. Yes people loved the planets... but come on.. the crowd was ####### nuts for Madison the entire show! Nowadays corps HAVE to worry about the competition. If you are not competitive.. your corps may not survive. For numerous reasons. If corps just went back to worrying about entertainment.. they would realize that competition isn't everything. JERSEY SURF ANYONE?????????? CROSSMEN ANYONE????????? (17th to 12th in one year.. just because their 17th place show was so entertaining and satisfying for their members to perform that most of them came back! They went down a placement from 2010 to 2011 BTW!) There is WAY TOO MUCH emphasis put on the competition aspect of drum corps, and that has killed the activity. Too much emphasis on parts of the show that the audience doesn't even notice or give two ##### about! Wanna fix the activity? The on field product has SO MUCH room for improvement. Yeah.. we can make a lot of improvements business wise.. but unless you get BITS... it doesn't really matter. And YES! We can keep the excellence and still be entertaining. Crown? Cadets? Phantom? Especially Cadets and Phantom.. throw in SCV... consistently fan favorites throughout the history of DRUM CORPS. They entertain, while being excellent.

Hmmmmm..... maybe we've inadvertently stumbled upon the answer that's been so eluding us: When dci in general crossed that line (and didn't even realize it) from entertainment focus....to excellence for music majors (primarily) focus.... that might just be the point where it all began to fall apart. You can have all the snob vs. snob contests you want, and I will be bored to death and never want to return (dada anyone?). I will boldly step out there and say that when entertainment stopped being the main focus, the Cash so desired by everyone started to dry up. That, plus the spiraling expenses of touring, is a formula for failure.

Funny, I've been to recitals at Juilliard and Berklee, and had friends who studied both places, and at no time did any of the performers get up and start moving across the stage at 180 bpm for 11 minutes while they were playing. Drum corps is a music sport. Music and movement. To do it well requires a special set of skills that a lot of other gifted musicians might not be able to handle. i've seen great horn players who literally couldn't figure out how to play and move at the same time get cut, despite their musical talent. And in the pits, the demand is absolutely as much as they're going to be asked to do at Juilliard or Kentucky (great percussion program). Want to know what a professional concert percussionist does more than anything? Count rests. Drum corps kicks that particular form's arse when it comes to demand. Wanna try again?

so then why do we need all of the toys, props etc if it costs so much? why the need to spend all summer criss crossing the globe when people could stay more regional early on and save some gas money? Why the need to raise membership to 150 knowing full well it comes with more costs intact? I could go on, but let's be real here...those pushing for change, got their change, and now are crying they need more money. Well, they are the dumbasses and pushed for stuff that cost more! Yet you NEVER see them accept any accountability for their past decisions. they're the ones who ####ed it up to begin with

I would say indoor lines push the envelope more. In DCI the only thing I have seen that is "new" over the last number of years is the leg apart batterie jam where they look like their taking a #### as they play some triplet roll. DCI lines are cleaner, but indoor try new things more often.

Because DCI didn't bump Pioneer down to open class. Haven't you been following along?

Changes are needed in DCI. It can start with everyone ageeing to abide by the previously agree too DCI By laws and not hold unauthorized meetings in secret. I believe the G7 has agreed in principle to cease such future unauthorized secret meetings. Thats a refreshing " change " right there, and its a start anyway.

LOL!!! Honestly, as a co-founder of the Ski Mask Cadets... which, for all intents and purposes, were Crunchy Frog more than 20 years before Crunchy Frog came on the scene... I didn't require much therapy after the garden-hose thing. Not saying the garden-hose thing wasn't inexplicably bizarre, because it was.

Thanks Prfct for bringing Klein Collins to my attention. First guard contest I attended was as a 12 yr old. That was 53 yrs ago and I still enjoy it.

Hey all please give what you can. this is a great uniform and a great corps.

Ah, but do they also deserve more money from DCI to help them pay for better designers and better conditions for performers--which makes it easier for them to win?

yup,..........great show!

I've been to every WGI World Championship, guard and percussion, since WGI was founded. I believe as a percussionist that the very top DCI lines are more technically proficient, especially towards the end of the season. The reason for that is they're together all summer long, practicing far more hours, with no other distractions...plus they attract more top talent from around the country. While some WGI lines attract members from out of their region, it's not to the degree of DCI lines. What the WGI lines accomplish is phenomenal, especially considering that most members are in high school or college at the same time, keeping up with studies, taking exams, etc., while rehearsing with the WGI lines during the week and competing only on weekends. Due to the scope of what's done visually on the indoor floors, the WGI lines typically have much more movement demand than the DCI lines in terms of faster drill evolutions, which the DCI lines cover far more ground due to the size of a football field. WGI lines only have to coordinate their playing with themselves, while DCI lines have to fit in with the horns, sometimes from great distance spreads. They're both wonderful and amazing in their own right, and they both offer unique challenges.

The night Santa Clara became THE Vanguard. The year was 1970 and our first show in the Midwest just happened to be in Racine. Ya know Racine, in the heart of drum corps land. Home to the two time defending champions Kilties as well as the Racine Scouts. Now we weren’t all that bad. After all the corps just missed finals last year by .05 and we did just defeat the Kingsmen to become California State Champs, but this was the big time. Here I was in my first big show and I felt so inferior in my red and green satin top with black pants. I mean we were standing in the same area as the Kilties and the Troopers. The kilts looked so much older and bigger than us and the Troopers in those 7th Calvary uniforms looked so cool. To top it off the stands were packed with fans that were used to seeing the best drum corps had to offer. Finally it was time to perform. We opened with “Fanfare and Allegro” and then went straight into “Procession of the Nobles”. About twelve measures into the off the line something amazing happened. The fans started to rise into a standing “O”. They stayed standing until we stopped for our concert. Fred Sanchez started concert with his bari solo dat de dat dat dat dah da dat dat dat dat dah. By the time Wayne Downey came out for his sop solo the stands had already erupted into another enthusiastic standing “O”. As we finished our concert I couldn’t believe the crowds reaction, they were going crazy. After they settled our DM called out “Resume Hut” and we were off with “Richman” and once again the crowd went crazy. After we finished our show and snapped our horns down we were greeted by the PA announcer screaming over the crowd “Wonderful show…wonderful show… the “Santa Clara Vanguard”. We didn’t win that night. We lost to the Troopers by a penalty. GR stated that the crowd got us so pumped, that we marched the whole second half of the show at almost double time and the show ended up over a minute short. What an amazing night! We basically received a standing “O” from start to finish. In my four years in the corps nothing compared to the excitement of that night. A couple of nights later we beat the Cavies and later the Troopers. Then we went back home, leaving the DC elite in our wake. Because of money we didn’t have a chance to go to the big show (VFW in Miami), but we did win our first title in Portland.

You mean as in the only thing they ate each meal? Sounds about right.

Sending love and happy vibes to The Renegades from sunny (well today it is raining) Florida! Keep it Evil, Keep it Loud and as Billy Joel says, "Don't take s--t from anyone!"

Camp this weekend!!

Thanks for all the positive vibes!!!!!! Let's keep it at that 7

Sending love to the ' Gades!!!!

http://www.reddit.com/ http://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/19zzy8/ever_wonder_how_directors_decide_to_film/ Regards, John

well, the thmub nail is of cavies, half the discussion is about the video, what do you want? It still got to the front page. Regards, John

The Troopers theme was selected this year as a tribute show to 7 of their colleague corps. If not... oh the irony of it all.

up to your old necro tricks i see...

How interesting that virtually no one reads anything from here anymore. These type of anonymous boards have run their course, thankfully. ZZZZZZ the 3 of you keep talking to each other

Might have worn out his welcome with another corps.

Sorry for the "mispost" Regarding the topic, I had asked if the Op was serious. Is the off season that boring this topic was started? C'mon and keep with things that have substance, even if they are controversial or argumentative but something that elicits better discussion than cereal.

Retracted