Leaderboard

The questions about the showers come from an old fashioned, factually inaccurate and stereotypical assumption that gay people by their very nature are uncontrollable hedonists who can't control themselves when if they see another person of the same gender in anything less than a full suit of armor. Not true. Just because you're a dude and there's a gay dude in the locker room with you doesn't mean that person wants to jump your bones! And don't flatter yourself into thinking otherwise. The person's there to do a job just like you are. Don't assume they're checking out your junk just cause they're gay. Instead, assume that the person is as professional and serious as you are and will go about his/her business just like you would.

Take the shower aspect out of it. 99.9% of the time corps are rehearsing during the summer, the kids are half-naked to begin with. What's stopping a gay guy from checking you out before a run through? Or does being turned into a sexual object only count if one is completely nude?

it's true. you WILL argue about anything

The Bluecoats actually did something like that in 2005 as well. It was kinda weird hearing the Bluecoats' version at first, but it's still pretty cool.

Since no one's posted it yet, enjoy..

The drum speak section from Cadets 2005. Really cool stuff in there, but I'm not a drummer.

I was going to say something about gay and straight guys washing in the same shower until I realized that seeing me naked was punishment enough. #clawingone'seyesout

Actually... back in the day Homosexuality was the in thing... women were just there to breed... But seriously Stu.. we aren't talking about ####### ancient history...

Issue ? No....arent you forgeting one thing ? Corps = Unit = Family . Everyone is accepted and theres a no judgement type of zone. Geoffrey

If you have enough energy to have sex in the shower after rehearsal, you aren't working hard enough.

Again, you can't take the gay component out. You're making a false parallel. But I'll bite anyway: male and female locker rooms are a gender social construct. If a guy walks in to a womens locker room, a fuss will be made because it's a social norm that's immediately being violated in plain view. If a gay guy walks into a mens locker room ... well, nothing happens because who cares. He's a guy. If you don't like it, T.S. You're confusing gender with sexuality.

Got this from facebook once --> "Google has its fingers in a lot of different pies. Most of these are useful and financially profitable, but the company is also known for spending some time fine-tuning its quirky sense of humour. In the following example, you’ll be able to hear a man beatboxing, courtesy of Google Translate. Simply go to the website and paste the below text into the box, set the languages from English to German and click listen. The Alt Text over the listen button even reads “Beatbox”. pv zk bschk pv zk pv bschk zk pv zk bschk pv zk pv bschk zk bschk pv bschk bschk pv kkkkkkkkkk bschk bschk bschk pv zk bschk pv zk pv bschk zk pv zk bschk pv zk pv bschk zk bschk pv bschk bschk pv kkkkkkkkkk bschk bschk bschk pv zk bschk pv zk pv bschk zk pv zk bschk pv zk pv bschk zk bschk pv bschk bschk pv kkkkkkkkkk bschk bschk bschk pv zk bschk pv zk pv bschk zk pv zk bschk pv zk pv bschk zk bschk pv bschk bschk pv kkkkkkkkkk bschk bschk bschk pv zk bschk pv zk pv bschk zk pv zk bschk pv zk pv bschk zk bschk pv bschk bschk pv kkkkkkkkkk bschk bschk bschk We’re not sure what the German has to do with all this, nor what the point altogether is, but none of that matters. Check it out." It's amazing :-)!

If that sort of thing was accepted in society, I'd have no quarrel with that, actually. It isn't. Period. It's a ludicrous thing to keep bringing up, IMO, but go ahead, I guess. Corps stay in schools...do you REALLY think they would be able to have coed showers in such a setting? When they are guests at the school? How many schools would invite any corps to ever stay at their school again if the admin got wind of such a thing happening? How much trouble might a band director get into if he or she had lobbied for the corps to be able to stay at the school, only to find the corps using just one set of showers for everybody?

If someone wants to watch me wash my a##, enjoy yourself If you're checking me out: the water was COLD What I do hate is having to take a crap in a bathroom that has no walls around the toilet.

The girls never came, man! The girls never came... Terrible references aside, I can confirm this is exactly what would happen.

Because when you've seen people in next to nothing on a field all day, that little bit of clothing wouldn't make a difference in a shower situation? Wait, that's an argument for co-ed showering.... I think that's what I wanted to make. The only problem I could see would be drum corps couples making it weird for everyone else.

Showers are built for the separation of males and females in essence because they are heterosexuals who are sexually attracted to each other; otherwise we would have no cultural mores against co-ed showers.

Showers are not built just 'for heterosexuals'. Are you saying that homosexual men and women can't shower? How 50's of you.

My personal experience as an actual gay member of a junior corps in the 80's was very different. I really did not check out the other guys in the shower as my only concern at the time was getting in and out clean as quickly as possible as the days were very structured with so much to do. We had many out gay young men and I cannot remember one conversation ever when we discussed or compared notes regarding the genitals of other male corps members. I would also never want to make any member of the corps uncomfortable by checking them out in the shower. Furthermore, my attraction to another male has never been based on their genitalia. To each his own.

My favorite drum speak -

I just read that in John Belushi's voice. :worthy:

So,... To increase butts in the seats, make the DCI activity more accessible to many, many corps; create a situation where the major top corps do not see each other collectively until Finals; allow the fans the fun suspense of comparing summer scores from various shows to figure out potential final placement scenarios; have the great wonderful Finals at the end of the season; and for those who cannot afford to attend Finals broadcast the Finals, or a portion thereof, using the current technology available. Hmmmm... sounds eerily familiar? Or am I just experiencing deja vu?

I just remember being so hot, sweaty and tired, I would have showered with my mother..

No offense, Stu, but maybe you're not as informed as you think you are. Being aroused by nudity is as much a reaction to social taboos as it is a biological thing that is hardwired into every human being... If you see enough nude bodies, without it being in a sexual context ( as in drum corps), then it's not an issue ( you don't get aroused). Humans are aroused by many things.... ....and we have brains that we can choose to use when deciding on how to behave. Also, women react differently to nudity than men. ( http://www.apa.org/monitor/apr03/arousal.aspx) I'll look for the study that I read on this topic in Grad School that specifically supports my assertion ( I may still have access to the Scholarly Library) We differ in opinions, but rest assured, my claims aren't just idle babble and they've been substantiated at least a bit by research.

I have to be honest....some of the best laughs have ben in a drum corps shower with men of all kinds and sexual orientation in there. Why? guys being guys, saying #### that guys say, and no one was worried about the size of someone else's stuff. we had fun, we busted on people and other corps, and then we went and got dressed. that anyone is really concerned about it is staggering.

As long as they didn't try to probe Uranus?! :tongue:/> HEHEH i kill me!

They must be in Blue Devils... after all, they DO rehearse on Mars!!!!

Drum corps is where I really learned how to be tolerant. I would say DCI is far ahead of the curve- when I marched it was not a big deal at all.

There are gay people in drum corps? I had no idea.

The winter drumline I teach did an 80's themed show this season and we had the above lick in the show, followed by a sampled voice of a valley girl "Oh my god, thats sooo 80's". Got a laugh from many judges all season, but it was especially cool having Mike McIntosh judge us at our last show since he marched BD in the 80's......he probably had the best reaction from a judge all season.

This is a non-issue for me. I'm not homophobic. I also have nothing against vegans, religious zealots, Martians, etc. Are there gays in drum corps? Probably. Vegans in drum corps? Probably. Religious zealots in drum corps? Probably. Martians in drum corps? Well, I think I've met a few.

Hey... we had split gyms when I marched in 08 and 09 whenever it was possible (we are based in Texas...)... so co-ed showers would not happen... one bag on body they really enforced though. Showers were not an issue at all. I mean we are a bunch of artsy kids anyway. Most of us grew up as homosexuals as our best friends. And if you don't come out in high school.. you still know. Being gay isn't the big deal it is anymore. Especially in the arts.. I mean.. has it ever really been a huge issue in the arts? Now for sports, it is different. There are still a lot of stereotypes.. and I know in the gym class locker room these is probably still the issue of jocks vs every else. Basically sports is gonna be behind in adapting to gays being in the same locker room. Honestly.. if you find it's a big deal.. you need to grow up. You are afraid some guy is gonna check you out? He's probably on a mission from the girls anyway... and take it as a compliment.... But again.. as most people in drum corps were involved in the arts throughout school, things tend to be a bit more liberal anyway. And you are just used to it... changing on the band bus... if you did musical theater.. you have dressing rooms.. you change backstage if need be. Stripping down just isn't a big deal for us... I mean.. we rehearse basically naked anyway.

I call for coed showers

But that's just it. They are using the same showers. And it's not a big deal. It's not even necessarily anyone's business. Do you have to fill out a survey before using a locker room at a gym?

Agreed. Drum corps is not particularly well suited to the small screen, unless it's in HD and pumping 5.1 or 7.1. You're never going to get more fans by broadcasting drum corps, partly because new fans will never really understand the experience of the performance via television. Drum corps is an activity for people who marched drum corps. That's all it will ever be. And that's OK.

I was using the GE comment as an example of why I really don't want to have visual judges not ever try and discuss music, in any format. Visual judges making music comments in effect has been bad enough; I shudder at the thought of them trying to evaluate music charts as to their intricacy as it relates to the visual performance caption. It is just not a two-way street in skill sets, from my experience (with some notable exceptions). I have heard some of the tapes online, and they have been nowhere close to "50% visual". Corps staffs have the opportunity to report judges I believe, and if enough comments on overweighting an area come in, I would hope that the DCI caption heads would be discussing that with the judge(s) being reported.

I voted "other" because, being a person of....shall we say "generous proportion," I tend to support ANY corps that will make a XXXL shirt for their larger fans. Not all fans are XL or smaller.

Several of us here have heard from several sources is that there's been a sea change on that front in the last few weeks. I'd look for more corps Board members to be much more aware of what their directors are saying and doing in their organization's names, and that the votes that happen at the DCI level will be much more informed by active Board member discussion back home. The day of the lone warrior corps director at the DCI meetings has pretty much passed. It's taken a few decades, but the activity finally has Boards of Directors at the corps level that are starting to provide leadership rather than rubber stamping. It's a very healthy development.

The voting membership of DCI is made up of the organizations, not individual corps directors. If the corps themselves decided to change the Board structure, it would require a majority of the organizations to agree to send representatives to the next meeting (or call a meeting) and vote on a change in the bylaws that instituted an all outside Board. It wouldn't really be that difficult.

Does a corps deliver on its mission if it puts its members in positions where they're wrestling 90 pounds over their weights? Grouping competitors into leagues that are designed to give the competitors a fair shot within a given range of like competitors is the norm in this society, not the outlier. No one expects a high school team to have to play against college teams, or college against pro. A corps whose average membership age is 16 or 17 is simply not well matched against a group of 20 year olds. Those three or four years make a huge difference in strength, skill and experience, just as they do in most other team sports (individuals, not so much, as there'll always be the 14 year old tennis wunderkind). As I said, it's not a zero-sum game unless one really does believe that the market is saturated, in which case, let's go ahead and wrap this up. Using the numbers from Finals, exactly .00055% of the United States cares enough about what these kids do to show up to their "Super Bowl" and watch them do it. I don't think that's the case. I'd like to think we can at least boost it to oh, at least .001%. (I couldn't resist, but IF that happened, at an average $40 ticket price, it would be another $800,000 in DCI's pocket, for not a single dime of additional expense; LOS doesn't charge them more for selling more tickets, I'd imagine.)

Then they should all stop competing. If it's just about the experience, then the contests mean nothing, and those kids are wasting their time bothering to perfect what they've been given. Why would anyone care? Just show up. Cut everyone a $100 check for their corps' appearance, and everyone meets down at the Dairy Queen for sundaes. But you and I know that the members really do care about competing. Watch the kids in your favorite corps when the kick the __ of another corps that they've been trailing all season long. There's blood in those voices. They like to compete. And that's great, because the competitive aspect of the activity is one of the things that really makes it useful in teaching those life lessons. In this sport, the only way to win anything is to prepare to win, and preparation, and the ability to perform under presssure, are the elements that separates the greats from the also rans. The numbers-side of me would say that 300 surveys from one contest tells you something about your specific event (but it's cool that you do that -nicely done). But were we to do the same survey at a DCI regional contest, would the results be the same? I go to my town's concerts on the green in summer because I like to support the idea of what it represents, but my presence isn't driven by affinity for a particular player in the town band either. However, if I'm getting the car and driving a few hours to get to a concert or sporting event, you can bet that I'm going to see particular entertainers or teams. I don't share your sanguine view of how DCI, as an organization is selling the product and delivering the goods. As I said, the numbers indicate that they're surviving, but not thriving. No. English soccer league viewership around the world is bigger now than it was 20 years ago. The multi-league format hasn't made anything smaller; just the opposite. Premier league gets a lion's share of the notice, but the other leagues get corporate sponsorship and tv ratings too, and when a team gets promoted to Premier, it's a very big deal for their fans. While I'm not sure that a rising tide lifts all boats, in economics, it IS true that the higher profile your industry is, the more likely you are to attract new talent and new capital. Make drum corps, as a sport, more visible and I'd argue that you also make it more viable, and that's the biggest reason why the movement to more realistic, performance-criteria leagues wouldn't frighten me. I don't see a zero-sum game here.

whoever gets the 4 highest scores at prelims makes finals.

Will purchase just about any corps t shirts especially if it says drum and bugle corps not so from the G7 though its a greed thing

I'm anxiously waiting for one or more corps to sell this t-shirt.

Here is a thought: We are in an age of accommodation; at least that is what we are told; and corps are now accommodating all sorts of things such as meals for Vegans and release from rehearsals/camps for those with various values; this accommodation has been done at both a cost of time and a cost of money to the corps; but it has been done in the name of accommodation and equality So, in the name of this accommodation and equality stagger the shower times and allow for choices (co-ed, straight male only, homosexual male only, straight female only, lesbian female only). All in the name of 'fairness'. Sounds reasonable; at least in this day and age.