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Nice try, kid. You could just post as yourself -- you'd get a lot better ideas and feedback. :)

News from out west....... The Columbians Drum Corps had their DCI evaluation yesterday at our April camp. It is our pleasure to anounce we have joined the ranks of acrive open class corps for the 2013 season. Looks like we will feild a corps of about 69 members for our first year.

For the people who know me and don't read the DCA side I'm taking a break from DCP. Lot of personal stuff going on and need to drop bunch of outside things to free up more time. Feel free to email and hope to see the DCPers I know personally at any shows. Posting this so no one wonders something nasty happened. Got an email this morning that a friend is in the ICU and got me thinking. Thanks to those that made this fun, entertaining and very informative to an older guy from the "other" side.... Jim

I'm not sure the colossal waste is correct. I know lots of people who've seen the DVD. Many more who've sampled the free content on YouTube (authorized or otherwise). DCI's content is finding an audience. The problem isn't people. The problem is those people aren't marching, buying tickets, donating or generally doing anything to sustain the activity. And they don't think these are losers either. They're just not active supporters the way we (some of us) are. Nor will they or others be persuaded by the athletic 20-somethings, I fear. That's another structural issue we face. Our activity was designed for individual anonymity. We can't tell the 20-something story without breaking form. I agree with you that the format will have to change. I just worry that traditional attitudes will sabotage the only future we have before it ever gets started. HH

Fixed that for you.

Got caught up on a few of the WGI shows, both guard and percussion. I have to agree...these shows are innovative, creative and brilliant. BUT.....I don't find them to have the emotion that DCI brings to the table. Drum corps shows to me, are the complete package. The sum of all parts. The melody and power of the brass, the guard toss at the right moment, the 1 minute drum feature. The stadium, the bright lights....the perfect combination. When I watch Wgi Im amazed and in awe. When I watch drum corps I'm amazed, in awe, and emotional.

The last line is enough justification all by itself! Kudos you yourself and Sam...sounds like a wonderful event you have set up. Best of luck! I hope you can post some video of the event after it happens.

Performers and clinicians are guest of the local sponsor in these cases. Artspark is covering 100% of all costs. It is also free for all participants and open to any kid who wants to show up, regardless of experience. Artspark is pretty much Sam and myself. Billboards are coming up this week all across the city, bus shelter posters, newspaper ads, media articles, guys will play on morning tv news programs... several rock/pop musicians are promoting this through their own outlets. A couple of the performances will be with BD drummers and musicians that are very popular in this part of Europe. All brand placement/mention is done according to BD style guide and under their direction. A camp, some performances, a lot of fun. A lot of work by some great people. It will reflect on the BD brand in exactly the same way everything they do does, no matter where they are in the world. The guarantee of quality... you're kidding, right? Keep in mind that this sort of thing is not a competitive event and the goals are considerably different. The goals here are to increase the awareness of marching music among the general population of a part of the world where it is non-existent, to share best practices with educators in the region, to provide an great and influential experience for both the kids involved and the performers. It's going to be fun. :-)

And we have a winner.

Is music his career choice? Edit: If so, then the expense could advance his career. And wait, he made the second cut at PR and you wouldn't let him go back? Umm...wow.

If someone wants to watch me wash my a##, enjoy yourself If you're checking me out: the water was COLD What I do hate is having to take a crap in a bathroom that has no walls around the toilet.

No flammaster, whats going on in Dayton has more developed melodic content :tongue:/>

The questions about the showers come from an old fashioned, factually inaccurate and stereotypical assumption that gay people by their very nature are uncontrollable hedonists who can't control themselves when if they see another person of the same gender in anything less than a full suit of armor. Not true. Just because you're a dude and there's a gay dude in the locker room with you doesn't mean that person wants to jump your bones! And don't flatter yourself into thinking otherwise. The person's there to do a job just like you are. Don't assume they're checking out your junk just cause they're gay. Instead, assume that the person is as professional and serious as you are and will go about his/her business just like you would.

Yes, In fact... The corps you came from and are so very fond of, has been folded/disbanded in an offort to bring drumlines to Lithuania!

I remember being at US Open when it was announced that Nixon had resigned. Obviously in 1976 the Bicentennial celebrations were big. Anyone else have any others?

I don't care what others may or may not think. You asked what I think, so I told you.

So Crossmen have the oldest unis in DCI? That still look amazing.

Once again - I am in complete agreement with you.

This is cool that they are heading over to do this. Makes me wonder why more corps don't do international events and recruiting like this? Seems like it would be a great way for DCI to get more international and spread the goodwill around.

Perhaps the most interesting thing about this thread to me is the way in which recent DMs have suddenly started to chime in, after being absent from the conversation on their motives for the first ten pages or so. Maybe we aren't understanding the situation from the outside. My observations and experiences are of course limited, but it seems to me that corps are (still) looking for the best-qualified candidates as their drum majors, just as they have for decades. "Qualification" includes many different things, though - from what I've seen, corps administrators still pay attention to charisma, influence within the organization, a candidate member's history and character, etc. as well as any musicality or technical proficiency as a conductor. Physical skills can be taught and learned, but to change who you are is a lengthy and awkward process. Successful drum majors have always emerged because of who, not what, they were. If there is a greater tendency for corps to pick up drum majors from other corps, it's not because they know how to conduct already. It's because someone who has spent a year as a drum major already is familiar with the experience. From what I've seen, different corps do use their majors in different ways, but there is a common thread through it all. I don't know that I'm equal to the task of concisely describing it, but I've known wonderful marchers and people who were not able to thrive as the air-traffic controllers, executive managers, motivational life-coaches, and triage dispatchers that drum majors now are often called to be. All this while being an 18-to-20-something, at the same time one of the gang and completely cut off from their peers. Even the best that I've seen fight with it. It very nearly broke me. Another thing that may be different now compared to the past is the nature of the community of drum majors within DCI. It's only been in the past few years that they've been brought all together for any period of time outside of their summer schedule of rehearsals and post-show retreats. They know each other, they learn from each other, they value being part of the community with each other, and they get to see each other as people, rather than just as the dehumanized avatar of their corps. Being a drum major thus becomes what they are, so if they do happen to move between corps at some point in the future, they already have the network and the experience to do their job well, which at the end of the day is every drum major's dream. Of course, even with all of the talk about drum majors who move around, it's easy to forget that most don't. Those that I have seen have been among the most loyal and proud members of their units, truly worthy representatives of the best in their corps. And if you get a chance to talk with any drum majors from the last decade or so, I think you'd be impressed not just with stories they could tell of good moments or hard moments, but their sense of perspective about their experience and how it fit within and was simply part of the greater mission of the corps around them.

The 2013 incarnation of the Racine Scouts Drum and Bugle Corps horn line has just 2 trumpet spots left available. Come march with the "Oldest Continually Active Drum Corps in America." Contact me at mr_bill@racinescouts.com or go to the website, www.racinescouts.com for more information!

:thumbup:/> 4 of the 5 @RhythmXBassline will be in the 2013 Bluecoats bass line. The bass drum section leaders of 4 of the top 5 finishing world lines this year were from the 2012 Bluecoats basses.

Please allow me to add that there are several Bluecoats (alumni and active) and staff associated with Rhythm X, who took home the gold. :thumbup:

I agree, and I think that's been the case for quite a long time. The reason why Cadets 2000 tenor solo existed is because of a WGI HS line in the late-90's who did the same thing. Blue Devils 2007 drum line choreography thing felt like old-hat to WGI fans who had been seeing similar stuff for years. The amount of creativity on both sides of WGI (admittedly I'm a percussionist so I'm no where near as well-versed on WGI guard as I am with WGI percussion) is incredible, and has been a driving force in DCI for quite a long time. I feel like DCI shows are more about precision than any sort of mind-blowing innovation, where as WGI is truly as "how in the crap can anyone ever top this design? Oh wait: the next group just did - wow!" It's unbelievable!! Don't get me wrong, I love DCI as well, and Cadets 2000 tenor solo was incredibly entertaining and amazingly executed (as was the BD drum line thing). WGI percussion is really the forefront of the activity though (as I imagine WGI guard is in that world).

and apparently the show title as well .... E=mc2

I agree. This posts as if we are to believe that its from the trumpet player's " Mother ". I wonder what " Dad " thinks of all this. " She " (OP ) doesnt tell us even though the post is allegedly from " Skeptical Parents " ( plural... " parents ). Call me " skeptical " on all this too.

Then that would be a poor inference. The fallacy in your argument is that you assume that my definition of "better for DCI" is the same as yours. It is not.

I don't post as much as I used to, but I was reading an article on ESPN earlier today and it made me think of my drum corps experience. The article can be read here Basically, it talks about a lot of the different aspects of homosexuality in professional sports and it's gaining prominence. It's widely thought that a player or possibly small group, may come out in the near future. I started to think back to my time in DCI. As a straight male, not once did I think twice or care about who else was in the shower or anything like that. It just wasn't an issue. Is DCI ahead of the curve for once? Is it just part of the culture and come with the territory of visual arts? Nobody seems to care what your sexual orientation is in the activity, as long as you're doing your job. Hopefully this doesn't spiral out of control as a topic as I know it could, but really curious to see what others think and if for once maybe DCI is ahead instead of 10 years behind.

I get you're trying to make a point about your perceived absurdity of this thread. But you do so by marginalizing legitimate issues. I'll tell you what. You straights can have your precious co-ed showers when we gays can have our relationships legally recognized. Deal? I mean, the two are are certainly on equal footing in terms of legal ramifications. Every time I think of a gay partner who's denied hospital visitation, I immediately think of the tragic instances where a straight guy can't see breasts in a shower.

Certainly not - but you probably will anyway.

Uh, no. I was just throwing out an example of an attractive guy in my opinion. If you want to extrapolate a hidden meaning from that, that's on you. And yes I agree, being made to feel uncomfortable can be harassment. I don't condone it. I was merely pointing out that heterosexual males do it to women all the time.

Yes indeed. Not being able to leer at the gender of your choice in a shower is one of the gravest injustices of our time. It's as if gays devised the idea of same sex attraction for this specific purpose. Sure we can't marry and society tends to frown on us as a whole, but at least we suckered those straights into stripping down nude for us!! Beat that Rosa Parks!

Different crowds today. You have a snob element today (that has taken over the majority I think) that cannot appreciate anything but perfection and won't sit through something less than a top 6 performance. Just read the threads here on DCP. As a parent now, I cannot fathom why some would not support younger corps despite them not having 150 members or being as "good" as the older bigger corps. I think it's simply great that they are out there learning and putting something on the field that is expanding their skills. I know that I probably sound like an old dino in this respect, but I enjoy watching the smaller "younger" corps perform.

Let the markets decide. Create a co-ed shower for all the guys and gals that are just dying to see each other's naughty bits, because let's face... the shower is the only place in the 21st century to see a human being nude. My prediction is that a lot of straight guys are gonna be left standing there, pruning up with the soap in their hands... waiting, waiting, waiting for the gals to show up. But hey. At least no homosexual got a chance to see their area.

The drum speak section from Cadets 2005. Really cool stuff in there, but I'm not a drummer.

Now you're just being difficult and inferring at a length well beyond a reasonable scope...

Because of puritanical systems established centuries ago?

I’m flattered that I’m a topic in this thread, but I find that I should elucidate some points made previously. I can’t speak for everyone who has “hopped” from one corps to another, but what I can surmise is that people, namely the members of a drum corps, cannot and should not be contained to a loosely-defined standard of loyalty. I want to say that some of my most memorable drum corps experiences were in Blue Devils B. An awesome year led to a window of opportunity, which resulted in my year with the A Corps. During this time, I was fiercely loyal to the organization, but I liked to (and still like to) view the situation holistically. That is, I thought of myself as one of the many harbingers for the entire activity. Furthermore, I was in a transitionary phase in my life... 2009 was supposed to be my last year. In fact, I had planned not to march my age-out year, and instead work in a sandwich shop in Indiana, saving enough money to enroll in the Kelley School of Business. By the time my plan was set in motion, the Blue Devils had already tracked their top candidates. When everything didn’t go according to plan, I had to weigh the opportunity costs and risks of potentially marching my age-out year. With ample research and a few helpful nudges, I knew that there was no other corps I wanted to bring the culmination of my experiences to than the Madison Scouts. I can see why the concept of a member, and especially a leader, of any organization hopping around is unnerving. It’s an awkward topic for some, but I think one key variable that a lot of people miss is that it’s not always as simple as a member leaving due to a. lacking loyalty b. chasing a ring or c. drama. That’s a cookie-cutter mentality, and quite frankly it’s an illusion. CEO’s, chairmen, directors move on, because for most, the sought-after prize is self betterment within the context of reasonability and risk analysis. There’s a saying about lemons and a citric beverage and whatnot... I want to close by saying that, yes, it’s ideal when a leader comes up from within. Why? Because in my three years of only ever having been a rookie drum major, I can tell you that choosing from within yields the greatest probability of a seamless transition. You have people who are new, and they can do a great job. Then you have the Sean Phelan’s who commit to their organization and become a potent combination of technical skill and heart. I most-certainly hope, as per the author's original post, that I played a hand in the increase of drum major transfers. This is because I hope to let even aspiring leaders know that they should not settle for anything that may be detrimental to their growth. Loyalty for the sake of loyalty is unhealthy... Four words: do what you love. I should design a t-shirt. It would read “SOYLENT GREEN DRUM MAJORS ARE PEOPLE.” I love you all, and hope you’re as excited as I am for 2013.

That's just so Battlestar Galactica of you!

Issue ? No....arent you forgeting one thing ? Corps = Unit = Family . Everyone is accepted and theres a no judgement type of zone. Geoffrey

To answer OP, as an artistic activity, yes DCI is ahead of the curve. Showering is a non-issue, as is bus life etc. The reality is that gay males do not act in the locker room that way straight males would act in a co-ed locker room. And I suspect straight males in a co-ed locker room would only act childish when in a pack, throw one loud mouth guy in a girls locker room and he would shrink to the corner and hide under his towel. DCI isn't broke in this way, please do not attempt to fix it.

In before the close.... I had 2 gay brothers most of my life. While there were gays in corps, it really wasn't all that open in the early 70's. However, one of my brothers was captain of one of the most outlandish gay Carninval balls in NOLA. When being hit on I would respond " Thanks for the compliment, but I'm straight". Funny how many would respond with " really my sister / girlfriend / cousin is here and we have the same taste in men, please come meet her" I could care less who sees me in the shower. I could care less who's on my bus. It's all about being involved in creativity and it come in all forms.

Hey... we had split gyms when I marched in 08 and 09 whenever it was possible (we are based in Texas...)... so co-ed showers would not happen... one bag on body they really enforced though. Showers were not an issue at all. I mean we are a bunch of artsy kids anyway. Most of us grew up as homosexuals as our best friends. And if you don't come out in high school.. you still know. Being gay isn't the big deal it is anymore. Especially in the arts.. I mean.. has it ever really been a huge issue in the arts? Now for sports, it is different. There are still a lot of stereotypes.. and I know in the gym class locker room these is probably still the issue of jocks vs every else. Basically sports is gonna be behind in adapting to gays being in the same locker room. Honestly.. if you find it's a big deal.. you need to grow up. You are afraid some guy is gonna check you out? He's probably on a mission from the girls anyway... and take it as a compliment.... But again.. as most people in drum corps were involved in the arts throughout school, things tend to be a bit more liberal anyway. And you are just used to it... changing on the band bus... if you did musical theater.. you have dressing rooms.. you change backstage if need be. Stripping down just isn't a big deal for us... I mean.. we rehearse basically naked anyway.

I call for coed showers

Agreed. Drum corps is not particularly well suited to the small screen, unless it's in HD and pumping 5.1 or 7.1. You're never going to get more fans by broadcasting drum corps, partly because new fans will never really understand the experience of the performance via television. Drum corps is an activity for people who marched drum corps. That's all it will ever be. And that's OK.

After reading all of this, I have a couple of observations. Now speaking from a different vantage point than all of you who have commented on this thread, a modern DM (08-09) of a finalist corps, Jim Jones runner-up,a non marching member, I think I am entitled to probably what may be the most accurate synopsis of this situation. To start, most of you are incredibly off base, the veracity of some of the claims is FAR from an accurate description of what the DM/Conductor/Principal Conductor position is these days. I can assure you for almost ALL of the top 12 corps our position from a functional stand point is not very different corps to corps.If you question that, I can assure we communicate on tour every night with each other, before/after retreat, e-mail, etc. In fact Gene, made us almost incredibly accessible to each other. It is hard to read and see somewhat base-less arguments from people honestly who have never held the postion. As mentioned prior, DMs aren't afforded the opportunity of a bad day. But also recognize, they are paying members that are held to an incredibly HIGHER standard than everyone who walks through the door as a MM. They are, part tour director, cheif student leader, motivator, liason between the staff and students, the director and the students, the volunteers and the students, the housing site contacts the staff and students, and the list goes on. Imagine 5 worlds colliding and that is the typical day of the modern drum major. It's fun and exciting, but again it's not a job, they pay just like every other member, have a seat partner like every other member (with a few rare exceptions) and so on. That being said there has to be an intrinsic value of "education" that must come from there experience. I personally looked at an education from a corps operations/music education perspective. I was blessed to learn from some of the best directors/a tour director/ brass caption head/and a percussion consultant in the activty, that CHANGED how I approach my own teaching and judging, non profit management, leadership etc. When there is something that threatens that educational experience, like most paying individuals when you yourself pay for a service, you take your business elsewhere. Further, from a MM perspective, if the corps can no longer meet the educational requirements a member seeks, they leave. I know the inline DM who left to go to Cavies. He's a great guy; I personally worked with him for 2 years. I also know him well enough to know that his education was better served at another ensemble. It has nothing to do with loyalty. He spent all (I'm pretty sure 7 years) of his marching career with that prior organization before he left. Don't tie anything to "my generations lack of loyalty and committment" We invest thousands of dollars (for some of you, it's your money) for 3 months out of the year for an education. We would be remise to make imprudent judgements on that investment in an environment that isn't enriching or cultivating. Imagine I take your entire 401k and Roth IRA and invest it in bit-coin. I'm pretty sure you'll be upset when I tell you I lost your life savings about 6-12 months from now. Which by the way at the rate in which we blow the activity into a financial behemoth, thats almost exactly kids have to do to march, that is to dump thousands of dollars into the activity. Or invest in a college degree for basket weaving for your son or daughter, and see if you don't feel like they just wasted thousands of your dollars. I'll be honest being on the side podium sucks (I've been there, and you are just a metronome). You don't learn much and if your emphasis is on a well rounded education from the DM persepctive (corps/tour management, music education, leadership), you aren't getting it. I can count the number of organizations I have been a part of that I have seen the Asst. get cultivated on one hand, and that's because I'm having to help do it. So why not leave? I tell you what, go work in a dead end job, where you aren't learning, you aren't being cultivated and built up, you don't get any sort of praise (if you don't think it's a thankless job come spend 8 hrs with any one of us, I've been fortunate to be on both sides of the coin and you cherish the other side when it's there),you have a personality conflict with someone or a few people you are dotted line to, and see how unbearable of a situation that becomes and quickly. Drum corps is supposed to be fun. In the least fun job that exists on the field, and I've personally been told by my directors in the past, "Your job sucks.", we find fun in doing what we do. DMs thrive on the stress the excitement and the opportunity.2% of what we do is on the podium. I remember numerous sleepless or 30-45 min nap nights to keep the corps going. When it ceases being fun or educational, like most normal people, we seek to find enjoyment by doing what we do elsewhere...

As much as some of us are upset about the G7 power grab, I just don't see how anyone would be grouchy about this! Seriously. I haven't like a BD show in years, but I do love what they do to get out and spread drum corps INTERNATIONALLY. And that DCPs own are helping out a great deal is just awesome. We don't have to turn everything BD does into something negative. This certainly is not even close. Relax people. This isn't the appropriate thread to make jabs at BD and the G7.

God speed LB and start slowly to get healthy.

Couldn't have said it better.

Would it be fair to say that if your former Corps ( Cadets ) brought in former alums from the earliest days up to recent years, and took a vote on either keeping the 75 year old Cadets traditional uniforms for the Corps proper, or scraping the traditional Cadet style Cadets uniforms for Circus style costumes ( or whatever ) that between 90-97 % of your Corps Alums would not be for scrapping the 75 year old traditional Cadet uniform for the Corps proper ? I recall you stating on here before, MikeD that " DCP'ers do not represent the views of the general Drum Corps fan base ". I don't agree with that observation, but in this case I do believe that the overwhelming vast majority of Cadets Alums probably do not agree with you on this.