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Seems like a lot of DCPers are watching shows with a stop watch in hand This is odd, strange behavior

Yeah...when ever we could get out hands on a copy of Drum Corps World.

I love the Madison Scouts. Ever since I started watching drum corps in the early 90s. Especially appreciated those City of Angels shows, and I had a cassette recording of whenever they did the Doxology as an opener, though I know it wasn't called Doxology in their program. What bums me out about this thread is reading guys talking about 'prancing', attacking the Scouts for seemingly not enough 'masculinity', which for me, reads as not-so-subtle homophobia. You know what? The Scouts are always masculine, because they are a bunch of men. Playing instruments. Interpreting music. Tossing rifles. And doing their best. I rarely post on any thread, but I am on this one because I'm disappointed in a lot of the comments that I'm reading. I love the trombone feature this year, I think the flags are awesome, it has a very Mad Men-esque feeling. And while I wish their visual program had a little more oomph to it, I can say that Madison Scouts always entertains me and every year I can't wait to see them--whether I have the opportunity to watch them live or it has to be via the YouTube machine. But yikes, reading the comments from alums, it does really make me pause. You represent your corps--and you are free to say whatever you want, I get that. But, just like dcikon2 above, just because you can say something, doesn't mean you should.

I agree the need to express feelings. I am going to provide an example how extremely negative posts can hurt the activity. I had a couple potential financial supporters lined up and took them to a show. Once they saw some of the posts on DCP they told me they would not support a non-profit activity with so much negativity in it. Though our intentions might be good, we need to be careful of how we word our thoughts.

I get a lot more energy and entertainment from the Bluecoats than that "This is what he said," Americana, history lesson from The Cadets show, and that drab, Federico Fellini, Blue Devils program.

g

If you love nonstop gratuitous lunging and squatting for no apparent reason, you're in for a treat!

I read your posts on The Cadets topic, and then I read this. Pretty obvious who you're rooting for and who you don't want to overtake them. Which is cool, but it makes it kind of hard to take this completely seriously. To be fair, I think it's going to be hard to take down The Cadets, possible, yes, but it's going to be tough. Blue Devils? I dunno, we'll see, I think they're unreachable at this point but that could change, there's still 3 weeks left after all. I'm not going to say wrong as much as disagree or think some of your points are exaggerated in the following points: We'll see, but if that was the case they'd be peaking and their content numbers would be very close or matching their achievement numbers and would have far less of a discrepancy in their content versus achievement in scoring, they're actually right with The Cadets and Blue Devils in that respect, though Vanguard according to San Antonio has the most room to grow with the current state of their show in the top 5. In comparison with the rest of the top 5, here's the difference in that category in San Antonio: Santa Clara Vanguard + 1.8 in favor of content Blue Devils + 1.6 in favor of content The Cadets + 1.5 in favor of content Bluecoats + 1.5 in favor of content Carolina Crown + .8 in favor of content. So, with the current state of their show they have as much room to grow as the current top 2, but not as much as Santa Clara, so watch out there. When I listen to the past few winners, yes I agree. But going back to pre 2009, I think easier books have been in gold medal shows. I use the term easy loosely, that's of course in comparison to Carolina Crown last year and this year, Blue Devils, ect. but sometimes is being difficult for the sake of being difficult worthless? Crown has a bunch of notes this year and are winning brass, but is it really that effective? Not according to their scores. Also, the only shows that have won brass since Championships and also won the title? 2013 and 2010. Theirs isn't as difficult as Blue Devils or Crowns, but it has demand and if they get it clean enough, they'll be fine. And they won in 2001, 2002, 2004, 2006, and medealed in 2003, 2005, 2007, and 2008 with that formula, so it obviously works. And to be fair, that's getting a little nit picky. I'll go back tonight and time it just to make sure you're not exaggerating here. I can think of another group that does this and competes very well. First of all, you're kinda repeating yourself here. Secondly, I hear all the time from Blue Devils and Cadets homers when someone calls out something as being easy that it's actually really hard, they're just doing it so well that they're making it look really easy and effortless, same can't apply to the Cavaliers and Bluecoats? Glad to see we agree on 1 thing. I like to be polite, but are you ####### serious? You're telling me, that there's nothing, at all, in the music and drill that hints to the concept? Yes, the props and tarp certainly push it over the top, but there's all sorts of stuff going other than the super effective props and tarps. There's not ONE single straight horizontal across block form in this show, which a few other shows are chock full of. There's linear forms, yes, but more often than not the linear forms are skewed and tilted all over the place, which are harder to dress than a straight linear or block form. And they chose this music first, and they explained why they picked the theme secondary. All these modern composers have traditional ideas that they tilt and skew into something more modern. Yes, there's quite a bit of body movement, but if you're saying there's not enough difficulty in the visual and drum book, you're wrong. You're acting like it's easy, and it's not. As difficult as what some of the others are doing? Maybe not. But there's a fine line between difficulty and achievability, and I think Bluecoats are riding it NICELY. People keep pointing out that there's still quite a few visual issues, yet their show is easy and peaking? Talk about a contradiction. Too much body movement and lugging around props to different sets? Talk to Carolina Crown, Santa Clara Vanguard, and ESPECIALLY Blue Devils about that. At least when Bluecoats are moving around props they are uniform in how they do it, BD just kinda lazily and casually pushes stuff around. You say that their show isn't difficult, but the numbers disagree with you. They've already beat two of them and have been riding around a point behind the Cadets for the past few days, we'll see if that continues, but it's certainly not an impossible gap to close.

Just because there are a few alums posting on this thread does not mean they are speaking for all alums .

Actually, I think most of the OP's rant is merely due to being spoiled. Pie tastes awesome, but the more you eat it, the less impressed you become with it. And then you begin to think someone screwed with the pie because it isn't the same. But it is the same, you're just getting sick of it and don't know it.

It's about program construction and performance levels that matter, not patriotism, Italian cinema or outer space. Not sure how drumcorps fans can watch the Cadets or any of these high performing corps and not just appreciate the level of artistry and virtuosity and not whine about I'm tired of Copland or hate this or that group.

1900CANDRUM

They're nice, but I much rather prefer the old ones with the drop sash.

I agree. But I don't think we are hoping for the same direction away.

I'm guessing your state doesn't do well with spelling.

Last in pretentiousness, last in snottiness, last in arrogance...

Regarding Coats ending - does anyone think that only the current top two corps have a corner market on changing/adding an ending - especially with the current 2014 Blooooo staff in place?? Me either

Q: What do Captain America: The Winter Soldier, Guardians of The Galaxy, and the 2014 Bluecoats have in common? A: They're all summer blockbusters!

in know Im gonna hear it now for this...imagine a kid IF they indulge in the silliness of DCP and the often ridiculous rants is on their way to another show , nothing to do on the bus, picks up their phone and takes a look..WOW, all our brothers and others do is talk about other years and if they talk about this year it is pretty much with no support. Now lets suffer through the bus and another hot 12 hour rehearsal . HMMMMMMMMMM. I get how others do think that they have all the answers to the worlds issues and how to fix everything in drum corps, those who marched and those who never did BUT in Scouts own thread maybe they could use a little support , especially from their own, I dont want to hear also that " we aren't slamming the kids just the designers " thats alot of bull when I heard it on BD threads of the past and it's bull now. Kids invest with heart and soul into their staff, director and show. Maybe at times it is a stinker, maybe its great, maybe it's time Scouts stopped trying to be something they aren't or maybe it's time Scouts stopped trying to be what they were and go 100% into the future and not 1/2 in the past and 1/2 in the present, that's their choice not ours.Either way they are invested and do and should take it personally. I'm not saying anyone here is wrong or doesn't have a point, nor that everything has to be sweet tarts and roses BUT think about if youre helping or hurting. Sometimes one has to open their mouth to see change , other times silence works even more.I am also not saying be all rah - rah and not see the issues they may have like a few others I see that their own can't see past their own noses and dont want to hear a bad thing...some things we have control over some not so much I guess maybe there's a happy medium to total blindness to a product and over the top negativity .ok sorry for rant and don't want to insult anyone, just thought maybe another perspective might HELP..Maybe not or Maybe I also didn't have the right to post this or shouldn't have. I do write this with respect to the past Scouts BUT the present also Good Luck Scouts

Technically since Gordon Goodwin wrote the piece specifically for Blue Devils, it is the most true to the orignal piece on the field :)

Funny, I think the piano patch is perfect, and I generally hate patches of any sort. The piano patch they use has a tinkly, hurry-gurdy sound to my ears, like an old-fashioned player piano, or even a forte-piano (the kind that Beethoven used). I am guessing they used this particular sound to add an "antique" flavor, in keeping with the ancient nature of the Scheherazade legend.

They have one of the few caption heads who knows how to tune effectively. SCV plays with incredible musicality and uniformity, better than most if not all, but it's their approach to tuning that makes the instruments SING.

Things to love just like 20 years ago: warmups in the lot (located on the far side of the Georgia World Congress Center) incredibly demanding shows - picture everyone trying to merge Star's brass writing with Cadet's whiplash drills amazing talent level - nothing new here but they've really upped the ante chatting and catching up with other dino's in the stands souvie stands - don't forget to support your favorite corps, some things never change (although if you're like me the shirt size has probably grown a bit) Things to love different from 20 years ago: B-flat instruments Non-bugle instruments - including some great trombone stuff this year microphones on the brass soloists and pit - allowing for a lot more quality in musical tone when they aren't forced to try to project to the box Stuff you'll miss from 20 years ago Full Retreat (now drum majors only) Drum Corps uniforms - you'll see a few familiar uni's (Cadets, Cavaliers) but a lot of the uniforms will look alien Guard equipment - lots of dancing now, and when they do pick up a rifle or flag you won't see a lot of unison work Have a great time!

Good shows win. Not the most difficult. Crown's show last year wasn't arguably the MOST difficult, PR 1996 comes to mind as well... many of the cool Cavies shows from the early 2000s weren't arguably the MOST difficult... The truth is that a show does need to have a championship level of rigor, and I would say that each year all contending shows do, and must... including this Coats program. The issue of a championship title rests in the collective read of the show. A caption will be won by appropriate difficulty AND integration as a PART of the show (not one OR the other). The practice of counting minutes of rest and balance of featured sections is a completely fruitless undertaking. You have to look at what a group IS doing to come up with an evaluation. Remember that a lack of evidence is evidence of nothing. Appealing to a lack of one thing when there is something else worthy of evaluation is fallacious. They could win gold... if it all connects with the judges on finals night. So could several other corps.

I'm saying that art in the service of patriotism is propaganda. Patriotic "art" is the kind of stuff you find in countryside boutiques - wooden bird feeders painted like the american flag and all things Americana - and at Cracker Barrel. Art in service of anything becomes pedantic or kitschy or just mediocre. Third Symphony - masterpiece. Appalachian Spring - masterpiece and popular. Lincoln Portrait - popular. Sorry, but Copland's just wearing a bit thin with me as I age. With so many contemporary composers out there, I hope that corps seek them out, and seek the new year in and year out. I hadn't heard Short Ride in a Fast Machine until the first camp, and it blew me away. I bet the Cadets introduced that piece to many thousands that year. Angels in the Architecture was also new for me. Wow! I could go on, but you get my point. We need to appeal to innovation and beauty first, rather than the heartstring-tuggin' crutch of patriotism. I think Cadets in their new ending should just try to be AWESOME, to add demand, and perform the hell out of it, rather than pull any patriotic tricks or anything over-the-top involving fire engines or other iconography of Americana.

It was a joke, I'll give you a few minutes to calm down.

You joined a corps because of its "masculinity and power?" Are you compensating for something?

You are just wrong on so many levels.

I know there will probably be a few Madison fans and alumni upset with what Im about to write, but this is just my opinion. I was extremely excited to see this years show, and after seeing it, have to say it is probably one of the biggest letdowns of 2014. Visually I think the corps has caved in to jazz stepping and prancing around the field. This used to be such a strong group in terms of marching and playing, but I guess there is a stronger need to appease the judging, and if everyone else is doing it, so be it. As for the musical book, there is nothing that grabs me and makes me want more. The Madison Scouts used to mean power, precision, and great music. But sadly, this years show has none of that. I want to be moved and entertained, but its just not happening this year.

The Scouts have one of the most difficult musical books on the field this year. I would venture to say top 6. The visual design is a step up from the past couple of years as well. It is a bit unfortunate at the moment that they don't seem to be getting the musical credit they deserve. Overall I like the direction that they are headed.

Perhaps you've misjudged the audience you're speaking to, but I'd be pretty safe in saying that the vast majority of us have. Well...if the vast majority of you have marched, then I would think you would be more supportive of the Scouts. And if the vast majority had marched, then they would recognize the difficulty of their music. You all act like they are a train wreck. They deserve more respect. I actually love their show. And so do the majority of the fans.

I get the feeling that the technologies that we have today (internet, youtube, facebook, twitter, etc), while keeping us connected 24x7 to each other and to the corps also can lead to some problems. Back in the day, only a small number of people saw any given performance, and then there was no video to view and review and re-review after the performance. And without a forum like this (yes, I know there was RAMD, but that was a horse of a different color, sort of - actually, maybe not???) all we had to rely on was a write up / review in Drum Corps Word - I looked forward to getting that NEWSPAPER during the season. The writeups were mostly positive, even of early season performances, which we all know were rough. My point is that there was very little preconceived negativity around corps as the season progressed. People were just generally excited to see a live performance. Today, after the first performance, thousands of people are able (and willing) to analyze to death the design, the execution of each caption, who's not marching fast enough, who's not playing enough, who's not playing enough while moving, and what place everybody will finish in. Opinions and preconceived notions are immediately formed in mid-June. And as those opinions that were formed in mid-June are shared and debated here, other people's expectations can be set, as was mentioned here. Even as the designs are changed and execution improves, there can be a lingering negativity. I'm glad that Regiment was a pleasant surprise to some people that had lower expectations. They aren't a hot mess this year as some passionate people might be saying. They are a very good corps. I wonder if everyone went to shows without any expectations how much more they'd enjoy it? I understand that we all have our favorite corps (I have several) and we all want to see our corps succeed, with a great design and great execution that we love and the crowd loves and the judges love. But, if you look over the years, at the top 12, I think that's easier said than done. So, while it's a great goal to shoot for - not hitting 100% is still ok (and probably to be expected).

Also, congratulations Crown: win DCI once and twelve months later specifically get called out for ruining the activity. You've made it Crown!!

If you can't see any amazing drill in the Blue Devils show this year, then I... I can't even...

With a few DCP members predicting the Bluecoats make a huge surge and take gold this year, and with me enjoying that kind of talk for the first time, I've taken a bit of time to study the show again. All those who are fans of the show (and one poster here who's on the board of the corps), help me understand the show a bit. I'm going to play devils advocate here (and I don't mean I'm advocating for the Devils either). I'm a longtime fan of Bloo, as I had a number of friends from my high school and undergrad days who'd drive down from Cleveland to Canton every week to build the corps into a perennial top-12 group. In fact, I first heard about DCI because of Bloo when I was in middle school in the early 80s, and they were recruiting kids entering high school as they were building the corps. My question here is - do they have enough to win gold? I'm comparing them against past gold medal winners' shows. As I read it, there's not quite enough content and demand to pull it off. They've taken many pages out of Cavies' brass and drill book - minimal playing and marching simultaneously. Hard passages are standstill, or sitting/leaning on the props. I timed nearly 5 minutes of the show that the entire horn line was not playing (I'm not including the couple brass features with only one-third of them playing, like the brass feature with quick runs when they were leaning or sitting on the props). Or one half of the horn line will play standing still, and the others run into the new set. I call that sleight-of-hand. Others call it "staging". The consequence - the brass book in general doesn't have the content that I've seen in past gold medal shows. I see lots and lots of body movement, maybe more than Crown usually has, but it is demanding? Doubtful. Leaning right and left isn't as hard as marching and playing, not to speak of doing so at a high tempo (as we've seen from many past champions). The big WOW moment isn't particularly difficult for the corps. They play three chords and do a bit of slow body movement, mostly moving when they're not playing. Very cool, but doesn't take much skill. And again, we have the final 30 seconds of the show without anyone playing, just like we have for the first 30 seconds of the show. Body movement and running into position, or manipulating props. I don't hear demand in general from the brass book. Reminds me of some Cavies shows that were all about the visual, and the music was minimal, and what music was there, was hardly very challenging. The percussion book is more demanding, I concede. And they have some of their most difficult stuff while moving pretty fast, and doing body movement. They do have enough here to take the drum trophy. In general, this show is about props and the 'tilt' concept, rather than music or drill. "Tilt" is about how much DCI has leaned towards WGI, and how WGI judges score body movement as highly as demanding drill. In my book, difficulty should count for something. I see more content and demand - even, surprisingly simultaneous marching/playing demand a for a few features - from BD, Crown and Cadets. As much as I'd like to see a first-time champion this year, I'm skeptical that there is enough 'there' there in Tilt to beat the others in the top 4. So, devil's advocacy over. How am I wrong?

I remember waiting in line at pay phones to call back home. I actually enjoyed the isolation that summer tour provided. I didn't have to worry about anything but marching my spot and getting my #### out to the busses on time. Those were the days.(BTW, Your avatar is killing me. Such terrible memories. All we needed was one more #### strike...)

Wow. Bloo continues to be the crowd favorite show. I don't care how many times I see it. That ending is just amazing. In other news, there were some hornline tears that I wasn't hearing in San Antonio. Otherwise another great performance. Weatherwise it cooled off pretty decently.

He might have a Thyroid condition.

They've already won the gold...with the fans, anyway.

I see this talk similarly to how the Blue Devils and Cadets get "bashed", though they are both tremendously successful corps'. The reason they get "bashed" is, in my opinion, that they continually perform at a very high level. Bluecoats is in this discussion, and therefore...let the nitpicking commence!

I LOL'd - Thanks! And lots of "bug squashing" as well.

It will certainly be quieter than what you were used to. At least until the synthesizers kick in.

If you love "drum corps" more than you love "your past with drum corps" then you will love it.

First off, thanks for the support guys. And glad to hear you like the show, we've definitely tried so hard to leave last year in the rear view and start fresh and its looking good so far. Second, we had a meeting today, and lets just say we've been blessed, and when i say blessed i mean BLESSED, with a kind donation + everything we've already accumulated and its looking like we'll be able to go all the way to Indianapolis this season, now its just a matter of working harder than ever as members and staff to prepare our corps to make a nice run in our inaugural year. Again, I want to thank you all for your support and I wish you all and your corps the best of luck and the best of luck to you all in life! Thanks, Reggie and everyone affiliated with Coastal Surge!

That's like asking me to pick my favorite Justin Bieber song. Whichever happens to be on mute, I guess.

It's really interesting you say this because the designers have said that with this show the Music selections and music design came first before the concept of "tilt" was even discussed.

1. Cadets 2. BD 3. Bloo 4. Crown 5. SCV 6. Cavies 7. BK 8. Phantom 9. Boston 10. Blue Stars 11. Madison 12. Crossmen

Heard in San Antonio.."STFU"! Best 'vocals' ever.

HEY YOU KIDS GET OFF MY LAWN..

The show is very difficult and a tad cerebral. The staff and members are working hard to improve the performance and communication to the audience. Lot's of edits and enhancements this past week including some edits designed to improve flow, performance and endurance. The focus now is excellence. After a free day in Dallas, the Corps will be in a stadium for a couple of days rotating blocks for each section to get a chance to clean in a big venue. For a group to break into the top you have to have a show with the significant content. Now it is a matter of how excellent it can become in 3 weeks. The entire organization is focused on improvement and pushing thorough the final show. In addition, the organization is well positioned to sustain itself at the next level, a key to Building A Champion.