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Holy Necrothread...

We are marching as the Madison Scouts - Corps of Brothers. The Corps is comprised of about 350 Alums and about 90 2014 members! I can't wait for this exciting event. We are officially the "Santa Band" and get to perform on the carpet as the last group in the parade, introducing Santa Claus. :)

I know the majority are alumni but there are lots of 2013 Scouts marching. There won't be any non Scouts marching. Not sure where that came from.

It was once suggested to me that some of the corps I worked with were figments of my over-active imagination, and I was the only one who could actually see and hear them. (Well, it was the '60s, after all.) I swear though, this really happened: We were in the rehearsal arc in the basement of some Legion Post or other, Sasso in the center, trying to polish Procession of the Nobles or some such slightly over our heads piece of repertoire. It was not going perfectly. A door opens and in walks Horns Up (above). "Who's that?", someone asked. Frank Diliberto, in his best Runyon-esque, replies, "Don't you guys recognize Andy Warhol?" Over the next few minutes, "Andy" proceeds to walk around the room and sit in with every section of the hornline, sight-reading the charts and nailing every nuance. When he finally puts down the contra, a little voice from behind me whispers, "Well, if that's Warhol, he definitely missed his calling."

Gentle reminder ;) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wHNJ8ekF6E

I agree with this totally. I want to see something new from Madison, yet something that is distinctly a "Scouts Show." Oddly enough, I have no idea what that would be. Do you have any more specific stuff? I would've thought on its face last year's show would've fit that description, but for me personally it didn't quite end up that way. For madalumni, or theyremovingit, or others I'd love to hear specific source examples. I'm not trying to pick a fight or even an argument: I'd really love to hear ideas of what fans (and alumni especially) think would be the ideal "something new but something obviously Madison Scouts style" rep for 2015

"It was the thread that never ends It just goes on and on my friends Some people started posting it not knowing what it was But we'll continue replying to it forever just because..."

Before Zingali even started writing for 27th let alone Alliance, St. Anthony's of Revere, Cadets and Star of Indiana, George was discussing drill as art rather than the military maneuvers as you rightly cite. I had the opportunity to be part of the same judging clinics that schooled people like himself, Peggy Twiggs, Mark Sylvester, Jerry Coradino, Steve Kovitz and George Oliviero in Massachusetts in the early and mid-70's. It was quite obvious that he was looking with different eyes, seeing different configurations, and assessing them by different standards. While chronologically not far different on the calendar from Pete Emmons, George's writing was more in response to Ralph Pace and Ike Iannessa who had already led 27th and the greater Boston activity into different vocabulary, standards and imagining. Pete Emmons came from The Troopers in Casper whose sunburst was disciplined but not static military maneuvers. He dabbled with experimentation with Garfield in the early seventies, with the Long Island Kingsmen, and other writings, although he is best known for his asymmetrical work with Santa Clara before moving to Blue Devils. Zingali's approach and anticipations were more radical than Emmons then although Pete Emmons still makes his comments from the press box heard at Devils' practices. We can see that result on the field..or stage...or performance venue, whatever one chooses to call it today. Look at the "art" which Zingali chose for his designing: Bernstein, Erte, etc. Not conventional approaches by any means. Emmons was not given the same latitude musically that Zingali exercised over the total show selections and delivery from what I observed having had the opportunity to have worked with them both.

I'm sorry your feelings were hurt? Do you get upset every time someone has a favorite TV show that is different than yours?

My take is that Pete Emmons established drill as a real performing art thing, rather than a demonstration of military maneuvers. He established the principle that drill could be aesthetic. Zingali seemed to be making a different statement; he didn't merely do drills that were pretty in a more naturalistic way, he also did drills that seemed deliberately awkward, anti-pattern. Some fans complained that it looked like "spaghetti on a plate" and I'm not convinced that it wasn't deliberate. "Anything goes" is perhaps a more respectful term. And clearly, every drill writer since has known that "If Zingali could do that, then I can do this." Emmons took a big piece out of Pandora's box, Zingali upended it.

Okay... this topic makes me really tipped off. Yeah, I didn't read all of the posts. I only read the first page. And just reading the first page out of 15 makes me angry. Okay, so, maybe I didn't like some championship shows. But still. You are sending hate to the championship show that did work hard to make it to finals. To be honest, I think this topic should be taken down. Because, I actually liked some of these shows that you may be dissing on. And whether you're on my side or not, I'm sure there's that one person who commented a show that you maybe did have a thing for, but the person who commented did not have a thing for the show that you might have liked.

LOVE it! My wife is on that video around the :56 mark (soprano)

I would like to see them do something totally new that hasn't been done before, yet showcases that Madison aggressive, in your face style. I also hope they put a lot more emphasis on visual excitement and stunning guard work!

My vote is for latin jazz. No one else is doing it & the crowd will eat it up.

Yeah, Brubaker was the only one who even came close to Zingali's originality, and he didn't even try to imitate Zingali. He just went his own way, with those triangles and the snake moves and the geometric stuff.

Fran the background is a few years back corps management asked the members what changes would they like and what changes did they think would help the corps. Big (biggest?) response was to get away from parade music and branch into different things. Add that to instructors that work in public schools and you get a more controlled sound then one might expect. All I know is we did pick up younger members which I hope helps the corps be around for quite a while. They are scheduled for Plymouth again this year so that's gotta be a good sign. Yeah no longer a member but do get the corps emails.....

One reason I like the Hanover Lancers' horn line so much. Such a controlled, disciplined sound.

Hey I think from top to bottom the whole activity has just improved wonderfully as far as brass sounds. I never thought there would be anything else but G bugles but I think the B flat sounds much better. I'll take tone over volume any day! (it's like comparing a pair of Cerwin Vega to a pair of AR)

I hear you, but remember, when John brought out "The Joker" to Mitchell Field in the winter of 65 - 66 I was there... But I was 15... and not old enough to play with the big guys. As the American Legion proved in NY the next summer when they pulled two guys off the line for underage. Do I remember the correctly?

With the benefit of a night's sleep and without the burden of an extra Friday night scotch, I think I can make my point without my head exploding. I've got no dispute with cixelsyd at all, and I'll bet he knows it; I've enjoyed much of what he writes. My argument is with the base contention that the old, ###### off guys in the stands who don't like the changes - and their leaving - have had a significant affect on the either the attendance or the revenue of DCI. They haven't. While thinking through my thoughts about attendance, I went back and re-read the OP and you know what xandandl? Tell your buddies this: YOU GUYS figure this out. You told us you had a handle on these issues, you do what's necessary to prevent the rift in the universe caused by some miced sound on the field. Do what has to be done but, above all, keep the product on the field relevant to the marching members and what will attract them to your corps and performance, keep it relevant to the target audience, which is every, single marching music performer across the country, and produce shows with the highest-possible production quality to wow even the old, legacy fans in the stands. That's YOUR mission. You said you were best in touch with two of those demographics and you changed the rules to accommodate your wisdom. Do it again. Fix it. Keep it relevant and something that kids want to see and do, with a product that wows legacy fans. But this issue that the OP claims is so important, isn't. It's the same as the hours arguing about what song should be performed at retreat. It's wasted energy that sucks attention away from the business of selling the product that the corps say the target audience wants. xandandl, tell your friends to stop navel-gazing and start (keep) producing shows that the target audience wants to see. Period.

I guess I actually needed to stipulate that the word "attendance" means being present at the event. Sitting at home watching a stream on Fan Network is not "attendance". But more importantly... Are you heading toward some greater conclusion? Maybe we should just jump ahead. If your eventual point is going to be that DCI is doing okay financially, therefore they did not "ruin it" for enough fans to ruin their balance sheet - I agree.

I've heard the arguments about the year that drill changed and, from my perspective, it was '82. As I posted elsewhere, '82 Garfield was the foundation of the three-pete. I know Zingali had a few years of experience at other, venerable corps but, IMO, he didn't hit his moment until '83 Cadets. All the stars lined up for that year. I don't think any other corps made changes throughout the year to emulate what Garfield was doing because, from what I've seen of the mind of Zingali, there was no one else who thought on the same plane with him that year. It didn't take long to spread - by '86 you could see what "curvilinear" was doing to design - but '83, '84, '85, and then '87, Garfield owned drill design. IMO.

why is it that the audio system does not have to be operated by a corps member. when the idea for electronics was pitched it was under the idea that this would be educational. instead we see non-members operating the audio systems. Be it horn, percussion, guard equipment, or own personal body, the members perform the show in its entirety. when then is it ok to have a non-member in charge of such (what is becoming) a large part of the ensemble? When the idea to use electronics was pitched it was about education and students having access to use this tool. http://www.dci.org/rules/pdf/2008/06_electronics.pdf%C2'>

1980 Madison. End of discussion. Admin, kindly close this thread. :-P PS - Those guys were so epic, I learned to spin a rifle before a clean double-stroke roll. And I'm a former professional drummer, so there ya go. I'm just sayin.

Even though they were our arch rivals, (I was marching BAC in 1980) I have to say 27th's rifle line was stellar. Another which comes to mind was BAC's rifle line from 1977-1978. I will say that during this era, both of these Boston-based guards were very aggressive and viceral in their approach. Lots of sharp head moves (shakos and plumes in the case of BAC and tall busbies in the case of 27), and a real emphasis on equipment handling. IIRC, both lines used to tape pennies on their straps so you could hear the 16th note clicks on doubletime. While I love the artistry and integration of body in contemporary lines, the old-school precision of those past lines was an effect all their own. And I do agree with the poster who mentioned contemporary guards who don't move well....I would amend that to note that at an athletic step or full jazz run, they are great. However, if they have to move anywhere near an 8 to 5 stride, many current guards are clueless as to how to achieve that. Watch a modern drum corps in a parade sometime...brass and percussion are bad###.....guard not so much.

Do you know what a former professional drummer says at his job? "You want fries with that?"

"Best" is such a subjective term. Much as I would never besmirch anything having to do with the Madison Scouts... for me, there is one rifle line that stands above them. For that perfect combination of bad-azz attitude, technical excellence, best-ever rifle line uniform HANDS DOWN, the lying on their back spin move, and the fact they were 100 percent female.... I give you... THE 27TH LANCERS !!!! What year? Pick one, it doesn't matter.

05 The Zone -