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Showing content with the highest reputation on 02/02/2015 in Posts

  1. 3 points
    May very well be. For me (at least) good visual design starts with good music. Even with today's visually-focused programs, I still believe the best designs let the music speak visually. The Cavies winning years certainly reversed that approach (and as a result I rarely just *listen* to any of their programs -- they're crippled without the visual. BD's design is also visually driven and I really don't listen to their recent stuff much -- I watch and listen, but not just listen. Team Allentown has certainly had some winning music designs lately. I adored the Barber show. OTOH they are subject to outright design blunders. l like what I hear this year but any Cadets fan knows that early recordings frequently sound little like the final product. Writing too much material, trying to fix visual snafus, and sometimes really agressive hosing can render a Cadets book unrecognizable at finals. I think part of the reason side-by-side was so wonderful musically was that it was conservative visually. Really they should be 1 or 2 every seaosn -- best arranger and drill designer in the business. But somehow someway they mess something up. Team Fort Mill OTOH seems to be incrementally fixing stuff. Last season was a design blunder but only because they had a bit too much trust in their ability to "figure things out". Nothing wrong conceptually. 2009 -- feet not clean enough. 2010 -- oh I guess we can't spread them out quite that far. 2011 -- I think was under-rated a lot and suffered from too many preconceptions about "rock" shows. Since '09 they've figured out how to clean feet, get clean in drill, stay clean in guard, and win brass. And now I think they might have found the right mix of staff in percussion. If you think about it, Crown with a top level percussion line is a scary thought. They may be able to play the game formerly played only by BD. Establish an early season lead and never let anyone touch them.
  2. 3 points
    "Tick city" Ticks were long gone by 1986, but I have seen migrating waterfowl hold forms a tad better than this.
  3. 3 points
    There are many reasons for the current trends in brass arranging. Chiefly: impatience by visual, percussion and color guard judges and writers, who think of their own compartmentalized piece of the puzzle rather than allowing the music to live and breathe. We've been hijacked by WGI pacing, and designed judging sheets that reward frantic moods and over-writing. It's all VERY coordinated and well-thought-out on paper. In performance? It becomes mangled and generally meaningless musically. I won't speak for all arrangers. Some just aren't very good. Some are. Some do not assert themselves, while others do. Some are more concerned about keeping their gig, rather than making music. And sometimes, speaking up in defense of music isn't a popular thing for a younger generation of writers and teachers who didn't grow up listening patiently and thoughtfully. And sometimes they don't care. It's a paycheck and someone else is responsible for the show -- so they cash the check, and move on because their voice was drowned out a long time ago. Lots of reasons. I'm sure there are more. These are my particular views on the subject. Myself? I like music, but rarely like drum corps anymore. Love the performance levels. Truly over the "every 30 seconds needs an impact" school of thought, and the "cheats" used to achieve "clarity" and the "checklist" mentality of the design process. Double tonguing? Check. 192 bpm? Check. High sticking and a leg kick? Check. Gratuitous 16th note run living outside the musical idea? Check. Blah. Chuck
  4. 2 points
    IMO M. Klesch is always very respectful of the original. Probably the least "over-arranged" material in DCI every single year he's been creating arrangements.
  5. 2 points
    Music teachers don't make great music. They make great musicians. I believe this is at the heart of this issue. While the arrangers are certainly capable of producing works of professional depth and subtlety, this activity is led by teachers, not arrangers. And by led, I mean the directors, instructors and judges are all teachers, not music critics, composers, designers or arrangers. Last year George Hopkins said their goals were, in order: 1. Challenge the members, 2. Entertain the audience, and 3. Impress the judges [my wording]. I believe these values are fairly consistent across DCI. Is this inconsistent with the result? Are they arranging more for the judges than for the audience or students? It does seem that way, but I think these teachers may feel that it's so difficult to express a subtle mood, and to transition from one mood to another, that they have rewarded more moods and transitions over more time expanding on each mood. I'm not saying that's right - I'm saying they do it because they believe it's better education. Perhaps they feel that the kids have the rest of the school year to play it straight. I don't know the reasoning, but I think the intent is sound and since they are by and large teachers the rest of the year, they may have some experience that tells them this is the way to go. I do think the pendulum is swinging back slightly. The important thing about Bluecoats show isn't the pitch bend, it's Hymn of Axciom. They played that piece entirely. All 3+whatever minutes pretty much straight. BD did something interesting; they played the Nino Rota theme from La Strada several times over the course of the show so that while it was broken up, at least the corps had a chance to explore that one theme more fully. And in both cases the audience had one key melodic idea to anchor the show on the way home. Almost like the old days. They got great audience response. And they came in first and second. So maybe we will see a trend toward developing one idea more fully at some point, and cramming as many statements into the rest of the show as possible as they do now. I would like to see this trend continue, more ABABCABC rather than ABC-next piece, but I am also impressed by these corps ability to turn on a dime emotionally.
  6. 2 points
    Drum Geeks: the _kid and I counted 4 splits in the snare line, and at least one was a double-handed split left to right. Oh my. Oh, oh my. That drum line is the hottest (barely) Feb line I've seen a long, long time. That book is the most difficult thing I've heard, well, ever. Focus on the snares, which are just BLAZING! and you miss the basses (thanks to the gym) but you can hear them and the tenors battling in the background. Unbelievable, astounding writing. A bit a go I was looking for the link to the orchestral version and I ran across Dudamel playing it at, what seemed, an un-Holy 180Bpm. The comment was that Hop had pretty much said they were doing it up to that speed and, by God, that Dr. Beat in banging at 176! AND IT'S FEBRUARY.
  7. 1 point
    Welcome to the Drum Corps Planet Community! We hope that you enjoy your stay here. Please review the Community Guidelines so you can familiarize yourself with the communities' "personality". Please feel free to contact any of our staff members' if you have any comments, questions, or concerns. Rich
  8. 1 point
    Question: In light of the new electronics proposal passing, can you explain specifically how electronics is handled by the DCI judging system? Which captions evaluate A&E and what are their individual responsibilities in that regard? Is there specific language on the judging sheets regarding the use of electronics and amplification? In the past there have been many complaints about the balance of electronics and amplified sound relative to the level of the brass and percussion. Is the quality of this balance adjudicated? Is reinforcing a brass part considered a legitimate use of electronics or is it discouraged ? Sometimes there are clearly technical problems with sound equipment (buzzes, static and other non-desirable sounds). Sometimes the equipment fails and the audience can't hear the intended sound. Are these failures treated the same as undesirable sounds from the brass or percussion? The sound systems seem to be highly directional and focused to judges. Is there an effort to make sure that the entire (or at least a large part of) audience is able to hear a balanced ensemble sound from performing corps? Answer: (from Michael Cesario, DCI Artistic Director) As with anything new, the evaluative process at Drum Corps International grows any time a new idea is adopted. The same is true for Amplification and Electronics. The rules are actually quite specific about what can and cannot be used, but the creativity of the Performers and Arrangers is really just now beginning to be explored. Some timbres and textures that were previously unavailable are finding their way into today's productions, with everything from harp and celeste voices to thunderclaps and ocean sounds becoming part of an expanded musical score. The Music Judges, including Percussion, consider all the voices presented, each according to their caption. Certainly, overbalanced electronic contributions might not garner the same credit that a well-balanced ensemble would receive. In recent weeks, the Voting Membership of DCI passed a rule change to allow the balance of the amplified and electronic voices to be controlled from audience/grandstand/press box areas. Since the acoustic atmosphere changes dramatically from venue to venue, it was felt that the control of volume and balance might be better adjusted from "out front". Much of the aural blend also regards field placement of Percussive and Brass voices. After all, if the tubas are in front of us, we expect to hear them. In fact, they may be featured at that moment, and we would not want an even blanket of non-directional sound to encompass the entire stadium. A broken piece of electronic equipment is treated similarly to a broken drumhead or broken rifle. It may or may not affect the overall impact of the show, the ensemble cohesiveness, or the ability of the performer to achieve excellence. As with those events, the program may not receive the credit it might when all is going smoothly, but there is no specific penalty for an equipment breakdown. [Additional response within thread below]
  9. 1 point
    I'm sure I'm not the only one who's noticed this trend, but I was watching the "Best DCI Moments of 2012" recently, and I was struck by the surprising lack of cohesion in many of the brass arrangements. It's almost as if a lot of the shows are just "hit - transition - hit - transition - hit - transition - hit" in structure. I'm not saying that they don't contain complete musical ideas, but the arrangers are being fairly unoriginal and cliche'd. I also think that they're not being patient with the music, allowing it room to breathe and stretch its limbs. I'm primarily a brass person, so I can't really comment on pit and battery arrangements, but I have a fair amount of experience with music arranging and transcription; what I've seen of good arrangements has taught me that there are many intermediate shades between loud/bombastic and quiet/subtle. Yet these arrangers just can't grasp that. And what's really puzzling is that many of these arrangers have proven themselves to be skilled in those respects - adding variety to music and using orchestrational techniques to bring interest and meaning to the music. For example, Michael Klesch, currently with Crown and a few others, arranged brilliantly for Garfield in 1985 and 1987 ('85 is my favourite arrangement for drum corps ever), preserving the source music's spirit and vitality while compressing them into 13 and 11 minutes respectively. Scott Boerma, still with Scouts after all these years, really brought out the aggression of Madison's hornline, while still making it musical and keeping the integrity of the sources. Is it that they and the many other arrangers working today just don't care? Or is it that they must bow to the will of the visual team and stretch and shape their music to rigidly fit the drill and guard? If any of you can shed some light on this phenomenon, I'd appreciate it.
  10. 1 point
    For sure, and like Chuck said: some design teams are good at being holistic, with awesome arrangements and visual sharing focus. And some are not. If one wants to focus on the top end of DCI, I would say off the top of my head in 2014 BD, Bluecoats, Cadets, SCV, Cavaliers all had really great designs top-to-bottom. Arguably Crown did as well, though they had more problematic stuff than the others I mentioned. However, the further down the ranks you go the more problematic the designs get. But that was true in 2004, 1994, 1984, etc. As corps try to move up the ranks they try to mimic successful corps designs which can lead to bigger problems (over-designing for talent of members, not knowing where the balance is between music & visual, etc). I would also argue that the WGI influence is just as beneficial as problematic. The WGI pacing gets tiring at times, for sure, especially when designers are not that great at designing highs & lows. But I think the WGI influence have given us some GREAT show flourishes. Some of Bluecoats better shows the last several seasons REALLY feel like winter guard/percussion expanded for DCI (as did Blue Stars last year, not surprising given their design team). Again, it all comes down to "the best designers do good work, the less-good or flat-out bad designers do less-good or flat-out bad work." Again, just like every other era of the activity
  11. 1 point
    I guess that I should not say this, but I'm going to anyway. I actually long for the day when prayerfully the drum corps activity will make a turn from being a visual based competitive activity to a musically based activity once again. But then again, having marched drum corps in the 80's, many of the current youngsters of the activity would call my thinking dinosaur thinking. This is why I had to take a step back from the activity and become more of a spectator than an instructor.
  12. 1 point
    I agree with WILLIS. Angels and Demons standstill was good but the "program" took it to another level. Toy Souldier had excellent music but how they decided to program it was cheesy. Cavies in their dominant years always took ok music and programmed the heck out of it. That's EFFECT.
  13. 1 point
    This mostly sums it up for me. Spot on! Keep in mind, we still get some gems in drum corps from a standpoint of music. Also, to be fair, part of the problem is the sheer difficulty in syncing music, drill, visual ideas, staging, and thematic progression into ONE cohesive show. This isn't easy stuff. If you listen to the Cadets 2010 show music in a stand-still performance you would love it. And even on the field I loved it. Great music. But when combined with drill, staging, visual concepts, thematic ideas, well...ultimately it was a good show but didn't quite hit the level they had wanted. On the flip side, if you listened to the Cavaliers 2006 show in a stand-still you would love how the corps performed, but you would have questions about the abrupt and contemporary-style of phrasing and motifs. Certainly not traditional. Yet, when it was married with visual and theme it was off-the-charts good. Star 1993 was somewhat like this, but the phrasing was impeccable, just not exactly what the average fan wants to hear. BUT...there is a clear difference between my examples of the Cavaliers and Star (above), to what some other corps have tried. In the worst cases of music construction we've heard too many bops, chops, bleeps, whole-note builds while running, then the ultimate park and POWER CHORD! YUK. The key to me has been a loss of melodic line and thematic development. There is a limit to each show, and perhaps corps should consider less material with better development. When music develops well it can absolutely bring a person to an emotional high. Think Phantom Regiment at their finest. Think SCV's "Les Miserables" show, or their "Appalachian Spring" show of 2009. Think Cadets "West Side Story" or "Angels & Demons," and think Madison's ability to milk the crowd when at their best. Music alone can do this. But the trick has always been to combine that music with drill, staging, visual concepts, and overall show theme that aids the musical passion. The competitive rules (judging sheets) ultimately govern and control a lot of what is happening. As long as a corps can get away with poor music construction, poor development, poor phrasing -- just because it happens to sync well with visual -- then it is unlikely the arranging styles will change.
  14. 1 point
    Wow, Someone who arranges in DCI pretty much confirms what I've been saying about WGI's influence on DCI here for a long while, but that so many have dismissed as being silly. So there you have it from someone more respected than me.... I totally agree with what Chucks saying here and I have always respected Chuck's opinion. I wish there was a way for a happy medium, where music can drive high scores along side the chop-n-bop shows. I mean, the idea is for these corps to be unique, right? Also, it seems there IS a rubric for scores. Sounding like my grad school experience.... Interesting to hear for sure!
  15. 1 point
    LOL Yea, that's it. Thanks. lol
  16. 1 point
    OK, Heh, here ya' go... Count sixteenth notes (one, ee, and, aah) in 180 time. Now split every other note so that half the line (or every other player) is only playing the "one" and the "and" and the opposite players are only playing the "ee" and the "aah" of each beat in the measure (a "split"). Now imagine doing it while alternating your sticks (a double-handed split). Suffice it to say that keeping 10 players in time splitting rhythms is incredibly difficult and they do it not once, but 4 times in that 3 1/2 minutes, at 180bpm, They did it twice for four counts, one for 3 counts and at least one double-handed. It's kind of like how the bass drums "Split" five-sixteenth notes between them - I know you've heard it - but with snares and only two splits parts (instead of five as in basses).
  17. 1 point
    Pfft and here we have people on another topic complaining about how modern DCI shows don't let shows build a musical idea anymore. That was beautiful and this show will be an absolute beast. They're already nominated for ballad of the year.
  18. 1 point
    Feels like a Stonehenge-esque type production so far. Cadets don't seem to be playing around this year. Can't wait to see the finished product.
  19. 1 point
    hope everyone is enjoying the winter... all's well here as we await another storm tomorrow into Monday... fortunately, late tomorrow morning Karen and I will be heading south in advance of the storm and escaping for a couple of weeks - celebrating our 46th Anniversary... (yes, she's a saint for putting up with both me and drum corps) Cruising thanks to Bob Cardaneo's Cruise One and good buddy Ken MacLean... see you all after the 15th...
  20. 1 point
    After some exciting shows last night, we get ready to head to some of our favorite venues for our third Sweepstakes events of the season. In the midwest, corps will be competing at the venerable Perkins Stadium in Whitewater WI. Dune Battalion has really shaken up the standings with their recent wins in Slinger and Syracuse, and are being viewed as the favorites to win this event. But how will they do against Confederate Regiment as that corps makes its return from out west? Also worth keeping an eye on is the Class A matchup between Hg and Mackinac Island Crusaders. Out east, Les Blanc Chevaliers again host their home show in Montreal's cavernous Olympic Stadium. With all of the Knights Org corps in the house, look for the hometown group to once again wow the audience. Open Class may feature the best matchup of the night between Huddersfield Hundred and Valley Vanguard, two Open Class corps that have been surging up the rankings in that division. In Las Vegas NV, the Buckeye Brass group of corps look to shine out at Sam Boyd Stadium, but will face some stiff competition from Abracadabra Academy in Open Class and Golden Panthers in World Class. And in the south, the Euphony Empire corps group makes their season debut at MTSU's Floyd Stadium. They may be starting late, but I've been hearing very good things from their training camps, and they'll have a great matchup against the Aftershock NZ group to get things started. Also debuting in Open Class are Florida Sound, a newly-created corps that will be doing a limited tour schedule this season.
  21. 1 point
    Most organizations (because most people), not just drum corps, are afraid of showing mistakes, weaknesses, etc. So they don't want to release early clips because (a) they don't want to publicly admit they screwed up if they feel they have to change things later, (b) they don't want to offer an unpolished display that would tarnish their public image and possibly negatively affect recruiting, or simply the buzz of fan-boys everywhere, © they don't want the public to realize they are much farther behind than they should be (i.e. "every other corps is showing clips of their entire show, and all you guys can show by April is your opener? do you even HAVE a show this year?!?"), etc., etc. Lots of reasons for not broadcasting, and in truth I think most stem from insecurity. But that's only my take because I come down on the side of full and open disclosure - warts and all. They're entitled to their position, though, and since they're the ones in charge, they have to do what they are comfortable with. And we have to live with it.
  22. 1 point
    it baffles me how much scores are dropping.
  23. 1 point
    Ahhhh, let's be careful with the use of the word "old" if you please! We are...let's say....experienced. Yeah, I like that much better. ;) Dan
  24. 1 point
    I have a DCP app on my iPhone; had it for years. It would let you select the forum you wished to visit and then open the forum in Safari. Yesterday, it stopped working and just displays a 404 server not found error. Any ideas? Is this a 3rd party app that is no longer supported by its developer? Thanks
  25. 1 point
    All four regions will be busy with shows today, and corps are hoping that yesterday's higher scores are a sign of things to come. In the midwest, Dayton OH hosts the largest lineup of corps of the day, with a group so large that this may as well be a regional competition! Due to the number of entrants, this will be a "split-venue" competition, with World Class corps like Aftershock NZ, Buckeye Brass, Pride of Salem and The Royal Crusaders competing at Welcome Stadium on the campus of the University of Dayton and Open Class and Class A corps like Spartan Vanguard, Thunder Cadets, Valley Vanguard, Crusade and Pandemonium NZ will be at the newly-renovated Piqua HS Stadium a little ways north of Dayton. Also in the midwest, it's mostly Class A corps that will be in the spotlight at Metamora Township HS on the outskirts of Peoria IL. In the Pacific northwest, the Tri-Cities WA show moves back to Edgar Brown Memorial Stadium due to a smaller turnout for this year's event, with a matchup between the returning Thoroughbreds (who make their debut in World Class this season) and Confederate Regiment. And in southern California, Violet Knights has the stage all to themselves at Redondo Union HS in Torrance CA.
  26. 1 point
  27. 1 point
    Here's another drill move from the next movement in the same show. http://youtu.be/Uvi8k5q_Z2Y There there is the opening drill in their 2008 show. The transitions from triangle to Star of David are from drill heaven. http://youtu.be/mU9KNk8HO1E
  28. 1 point
    I know several corps who would love to be "irrelevant" in 4th place! (Crossmen, Blue Knights, Pioneer, Jersey, Surf, Madarins, Blue Stars, Boston, etc, etc, etc,)
  29. 1 point
    I'm not sure DCI has ever been like this. Maybe somewhat in the first two years, but that was still different than this. There aren't too many people who marched in these shows still alive I'm sure; they'd be in their late 70s to early 80s. I seriously doubt there are many people in that age group who get on the internet! Looks like ROTC stuff a bit.
  30. 1 point
    It really isn't a big deal I guess, and does make sense if there are financial advantages, but I really feel that the corps loses some connection with the community by rehearsing elsewhere. I spent many many hours in Rockford this spring, and local people came out every night to check them out. I know it sounds hokey, but there was a sense of community, pride, etc...
  31. 1 point
    I get your point. I guess my feeling is that if they aren't doing anything in Madison other than taking a picture at the capital and hosting a show, perhaps they should just be known as the 'Scouts'?
  32. 1 point
    I think the staff of the last few year has done just what you are asking.( and a good job of it ) This also in itself can be a problem. I think, as I have said, having your feet in both the present and the past can always be an issue and very tricky. I do think ( knowing several personally ) they were also thinking of pleasing way to many people. Judges, ( which it is a competition and they want to stay in finals ) Audience , alumni, etc etc. maybe it's time to just do want they want and not try so hard. You will NEVER please everyone. People think they might have the answers to all this BUT saying well do this or that is one thing, actually doing it, putting your reputation as well as money and a season on the line is something quite different. So what's the answer? Well, I say 1st decide what you want to be as a corps . Could it mean a flair of the big sound, aggressive Madison we know , yes it could be. could it mean the complete opposite YES it could be. Does the corps need to remember it's going on 2015 and they are in a competition. YES, 1st and foremost! It's nice to think we all don't care about competition but thats easy to say on this side of it. Fall out of the competitive arena and there might not be a corps. JMO
  33. 1 point
    I only know this... if the Madison Scouts do a Christmas Show, or a show revolving around a long ago Italian filmmaker, or an outer space themed show featuring frisbees, trampolines, and exotic costuming, they will find themselves quickly exiting the TOP 12. The current DCI judging community, most of whom have AARP discount cards in their personal wallets, grew up with the Madison Scouts. While they might say they value something out of the ordinary, when push comes to shove, they have certain expectations in shows from the Scouts, and if the Scouts do a show on jungle Iguanas or some exotic themes of faraway forces of nature, or some such, they will play right into the hands of Cesario and his Crew that really doesn't want that sort of thing from the Madison Scouts ( or even the Troopers ) no matter what they say publically. Cadets, Phantom, SCV have all done rehashed themed shows of late as a redo, and it did not hurt them score wise or placement wise in the least. The Madison Scouts should never... EVER.... do a silent, soft ending to their show, as the judges will simply not allow that from a Madison Scouts as it unnerves them from a 50 year image they justifiably have of this particular Corps. My guess, the new staff recognizes this, and that the Madison Scouts will ditch this failed foray into " going soft " with the ending of their show, and will do a Madison Scouts show, and ending that is classic Madison Scouts. Then like all the non G7 corps, its just a matter of cleaning it, and executing it. Thats my 2 cents worth of advice to the Madison Scouts anyway.
  34. 1 point
    Madison should announce they're gonna do a western show, thereby forcing Troopers to abandon that theme and go with something else. Everybody wins! Then a few months before the start of the season Scouts announce they've decided to not do a western show after all, rather they'll be doing something more in the Madison style. But by then it's too late for Troop to change and they proceed with their Bartok show.. Everybody wins again! I did all this without the assistance of any mood altering medication.
  35. 1 point
    I am really really hoping for a Latin/Spanish balls-to-the-wall show. Don't forget the Spats either!
  36. 1 point
    Well, NR_Ohiobando, who the first to mention, with some disappointment, that the ending was being changed, was also the person who posted at great length about how the show was more challenging than the judges seemed to be crediting it, and he specifically talked about the tricky time signatures. You should read his posts.
  37. 1 point
    Which pretty much explains the name of the high brass award. :(
  38. 1 point
    Hey- I'm listening to that on iTunes right now!!!! I'm at 2:12 (Wheat Dance) in case you cared.. Da da da da da daaaa, da da da daaaaaaah daaaaaaaaaah.......... Da da daaaaa....da da....... (front ensemble).... dadada dadada... (me) "Aaaahhhh..."
  39. 1 point
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  46. 1 point
    Yes, that is true. It was changed so as to avoid confusion...the staff didn't want people to misread and think that we were performing "Phantom of the Opera." I still think that is a great title for a show, and would love to see them do opera again someday.
  47. 1 point
    i've never been a huge pr fan (althought the brass performance in intro to 4th ballet suite was so #$(*@&(*$#@ amazing i can't help but listen to it whenever i think about it, and this has been going on for the past 5 years -- i think im obsessed), but 1991 pr is one of my favorite shows of all time. so far, it's actually my favorite pr show ever (though i have to admit that i haven't watched some of the best pr shows, according ot the general consensus, that have been performed -- but im still trying to get some time to watch pr 88, 89, and Tsar Pilato's DM year + 93, lol)...but having kept up with pr from 95 till now, give/take a year here and there (i havent kept up with the activity like i should have in 01 and 02), i really, really love pr 91. it has its faults, obviously, you can pick them out easily so i wont even mention the stuff. but there was so much emotion on that field. and i dont know if i made this up myself, or if someone else came up with this before me, but i honestly believe that in 90/91, pr put a curse on the baccanale (probably why i can't spell it right, nikk), so that any marching ensemble can never play it like it was meant to be played. phantom's 91 finals performance will always have a special place in my mind.
  48. 1 point
    I first saw that show in Michigan City early on, and I was jumping up and down backfield, yelling "They're playing JAZZ! And it's good as he##! That soloist is screamin'!!". It remains one of my favorite shows of all time!
  49. 1 point
    I've got a copy of the Maynard Ferguson piece, and the Phantom arrangement is *really* faithful to it. Well, except for being louder, tighter and overall better. :) Mike
  50. 1 point
    As I recall while sitting in the stands at Finals, that show blew the house down -- best crowd response of the night.
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