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I have fond memories of Garfield's "White Rabbit", as the last 16 bars or so constitute the first bit of arranging I ever did for the Cadets. I was John Sasso's assistant, and we were discussing the fairly nondescript coda of the Jefferson Airplane original. I remarked that we needed a "drum corps" ending, and began describing, rather vaguely, what I meant by that. "Don't tell me about it", he replied, "just write it." Listening years later, anyone will find it quite musically naive and sophomoric, and it has no real logical connection to the actual tune. Still, it was "louder, faster and higher", the formula for a "drum corps" ending, at least in my book at the time. Some things never change, and that makes me smile.

1991 was one of those banner years where so many corps put together all-time classic shows Blue Devils - Bird and Bela - one of the best musical shows ever SCV - Miss Saigon - so theatrical and beautiful and one of the absolute best ballads ever Star - winning it all with one of the most difficult programs ever put on the field Phantom - Nessun Dorma, Pagliacci and Bacchanale Crossmen - Metheny! Such a great show that they beat Cadets early season to take the Drum Corps East title. Blue Knights first time in finals with some great Americana Madison - City of Angels 1991 was one for the ages

Most of those 95% of corps from pre-DCI that no longer exist had little, if anything, to do with DCI, so really, you proved the opposite.

Sky Ryders were 12th in 1991 with their Camelot show along with some nifty drill from Steve Brubaker. Colts made finals two years later in 1993 with their seasons show.

History is the most interesting of all subjects since it encompasses everything else. (I suppose I have to say that as it was my undergraduate major.) I have seen a film of drum corps in the '20s, and am reasonably certain that the WWI veterans who populated those units would have been thoroughly baffled by the 1965 Royal Airs. To most them, it just wouldn't be drum corps. Today we are as removed in time from the pre-DCI era as those old boys were from "Watermelon Man". Interesting, no? They are all our forefathers and mothers and deserve our honor and respect. You can't choose your ancestors.

I would like to say God bless those involved with the American Legion and VFW posts across the country over the decades. Drum corps never even would have gotten off the ground to begin with without the Legion getting it started. The VFW helped take it to a bigger level in the 1960s (on the junior side).

Mike just saying I don't see how having a Class A and an Open Class nearby would hurt recruiting any more than 2 Opens within commuting distance. In fact having one of each would be better IMO as more of a choice in what is done. Yeah I was busy and vague in my post....

I'd have to be called an "old-timer" myself, so I'm not looking for any fight between generations. I've stood up for much of the "golden era", but Keith's original post to open this thread specifically asked if drum corps would still be around had the American Legion and VFW maintained its constricting hands around the throats of the activity (OK....those are MY words). The way the world has changed in 43 years leads me to believe that we wouldn't have much left today under those former terms.

I'll agree the business end is where it fails. You have to have the right people in the right places and it has to be solid well in advance.

1. Depends on the corps, as the practices of audition camps vary save for the one on one, or one before several actual plerforming in front of the faculty member(s) . Even within the same corps, the actual process may vary depending on whether it is a home base camp (like Coats in Canton, Cadets in Jersey, Cavies in Rosemont) or an outlier special edition audition as when Coats/Cavies/Cadets each schedule a one day event in Texas or Georgia or California or Timbucktoo. 2. Remember for most corps more than just playing ability is being assessed (knowingly and sometimes not so publicly.) How does the auditioner follow directions, get along with other members, listen and respond to faculty, seem prepared for music and demands of living with 200 other people? For these assessments, some corps use the insights (and judgments) of corps officers, section leaders, and veterans to answer the question: will this person fit in or will this person be a problem on tour? 3. Many corps use the auditioning camps to introduce the corps to parade music and such as a tool to blend the vets and wannabees. Instruction by faculty may vary between first camp and second; student will benefit from opportunity at both. Some corps use second camp as a measure of how much wannabees have improved since first attempt. Some corps don't have call-backs as such but rather keep pushing the wannabee until the person is obviously a member or cuts themselves. (Poor English, I know, but you understand.) 4. if the price is doable, the more camps the better for the new comer to belong, fit in and advance. Talk with recent veterans of the corps one wishes to join. With new faculty each year, what was done last November may not be the way it is being done this season...even for vets. Just a note, Garf. Because of the high attendance at Nov. and Dec. camps last year, the use of Smart-music program, and between camps sub-sectionals midis and follow up by sub-section leaders, at least one of the top four corps last season had learned 85 per cent of their show music by the end of January. Again, results my vary by corps due to talent, readiness of faculty and show design, retention rate, weather factors, etc. And another winning corps has been known traditionally to dragoon their members to live locally by Feb./March. Newbies better be sure they fit in and like the internal organization and show, etc. Just saying...

Come out to the Pullo Center in York next Spring. It's going to be all Alumni corps. Class A plays to an empty stadium. The early Open Class corps play to a nearly empty stadium. The headliner groups (top 5 or so) are the ones fill the seats. These are all issues that DCA needs to look at. How do you pull it all together? People have said here and other threads that a different ticket packages could help. The alumni show kicks off at 10am... well, 10am is too close to drunk:30 for some on that Sunday morning... I understand putting them on a little later isn't helping due to the heat of the day, but that 10am start time doesn't help.

All you have to do is look at the drum corps index I put together for volume one of the Drum Corps World History Book. There are so many corps listed that never even lasted past the early 1950s.

A HUGE percentage of those corps disappeared LONG before DCI ever came along.

looking at the picture of the Blue Avians, I have no idea how they reproduce.... but more importantly, I really don't think I want, nor need, to know. The people involved in this seem really smart. We call them birdbrains.

Really glad they are coming out west. I hope they stay nearby so I can greet them and help out.

Here are some of the answers I located (over time) on my own: 1. The BD Baritone soloist whose name I was seeking is Jim Rogers. He is one of the few to've been a Soprano AND Baritone soloist for Concord. I had the privilege of meeting him this past summer. 2. The multi-talented, multi-corps-marched, multi-bugles-played horn tech I spoke of is Bill Varju. He is one of the few men to "march the West Coast Cycle" that is, he marched VK, Freelancers, BD AND SCV (Notable - he played a diff bugle in all of these corps!) also notable in a related and equally rare category is Tim Meehan. No one else is known to have run a three-corps-west-coast-soprano-solo-cycle .... that is, he marched VK/SCV/BD....and was utilized as an upper ld/soloist in ALL THREE CORPS. 3. The BD Soprano Soloist from 93 & 95 was difficult for me to find because I spelled his name wrong. "Scott Steward" <----with a D. 4. The gentleman Soprano Soloist who began at VK, moved up to Freelancers, BD, then chose to age-out where he started ... with VK in 1996... his name is Marty JoBasset.

Very excited for the guys!!!

Plus the added bonus of not having to pay huge rights' fees to play it.

This is just a little samba,.................... oh, sorry,...............not yet?

Excuse me for offering some "general" observations, but I just don't know enough about DCA to get too specific. That said - There appears from afar to be two issues. First is the perception of DCA as "DCI-lite," and second is the actual structure/governance of DCA. From what's been reported, the age of marchers in DCA groups has been steadily dropping. That's good! Younger members = longer members. Nothing wrong with that. I would, however, much rather see DCA corps playing to their strengths, and that really is the fact that you have amazing musicians that have been doing their thing for far longer than the DCI kids. DCI trumps DCA on pure athletic ability, and that's to be expected - these are kids who do it every day. (I'm not tarring every corps with the same brush here - it's just the general trend.) But DCA really could trump even DCI on the music side of the equation, especially if the DCI "how many tempos/transitions can we fit into 11 minutes" is relaxed. Anyways, like I said, I'm speaking to the general drift here. Second, DCA is the only all-age corps game in town, but they are so geographically restricted that by structure alone it cuts off a huge number of former MM's. I get it - DCA The Circuit is not a full time operation. But it's probably time to have the discussion - maybe they should be. For all the Renegades brought to DCA, the most important was probably tapping into a massive pool of corps alumni in California, which you may have noticed is riddled with junior corps, churning out former members every single year. Maybe DCA should be networking like crazy, looking for the next Lee Rudnicki (Renegades) or Chris Green (Carolina Gold, Frontier) to strategically assist getting Western corps off the ground. With enough corps at some point, maybe even create a DCA Western Championship that runs the same weekend. So what if you get two national champions? You save corps cross-country travel costs in the short run that will help them develop in the long run. Or maybe, if we go full "free market" here for a bit, those western powers-that-be ought to consider their own circuit with their own champion. Healthy competition might bring out the best in everyone. Anyways, sorry for the parachute-in comments. Just some general thoughts from halfway to either coast... Mike

I'm sad to see EVD moving on from the corps, I am excited to see Jamey Thompson added as a visual consultant! http://www.madisonscoutslive.com/mainsite/about/staff/

Seconded on Bluecoats 14 - 15.

I am beginning to sound like a homer, but Bluecoats 2014 Hymn of Acxiom and 2015 Woods.

It's not hated enough to be loved in 20 years.

Amazing how these threads get hijacked.......reminds me of the arranging style in DCI these days. "Music for the short attention span theater crowd". Funny, JD Shaw did something similar with the Red Violin show....not very successful.Now back to our regularly scheduled Discussion of Phantom Regiment 2016.

Saw it loved it , but...... WARRRR EAGLE!

Common sense should dictate that the corps who wins on Saturday night at finals should ALWAYS be awarded the DCI Championship. If you can't win the big show, you don't deserve the big trophy.

94 BD small ensemble - pretty sure one guy was named John Hardwick (sp?) who had marched in Northern Aurora from MI in the early 90's. He also played the "My Spanish Heart" ballad solo. The bari dude, while I dont know the name, I did hear that he just walked up to into the trio and started playing along side them one day, and the part stuck. I've always wondered "who does that?", who just goes up and starts playing in an already existing trio. When you think about it...it doesnt seem like Wayne would have 3 sops and a lone bari. I dunno, maybe someone from 94 can clarify. Lason Lichau was also in the lead line, but I dont think he played any solos that year, except for some spot wailing at about 1:07 in the opener and some other points in the show that year. He also marched Phantom in 93 I think Scott Lile played lead that year too, and then went on to play lead in 1995 Madison. BTW, I thought Scott Steward only marched 93&95 BD? Anyone? 1990 Madison - Guessing Dan Rittaco was in that lead line, but not sure who else. 1993 Madison (Soup)- I believe it is Jon Shipper, Emmit Lincoln, Bill Tyrell, and ???Flip??? 1995 (Malaga) - Edwin Bogart, John Shipper, Tez Smith, Scott Lile, not sure about the rest. 1996 (A mis Abuelos) Jon Shipper was the opening soloist (and soloist for the entire first production), Edwin played in duet La Danza Pasillo, I think BigBadMan was in that line too, along with Ben Toman, and Ben Douglass. From what I hear, it was the highest lead book ever written for the a Madison lead line.

Larry was a GREAT guy. He actually introduced me to every BD horn player (by name) that year!

The overaged member was a close friend of mine. He was my best man. We marched together in a small corps from Bristol Pa known as the Bracken Cavaliers. When Bracken broke up a lot of the members went to Crossmen and some went to Caballeros. I went to Cabs but ended up in Crossmen. At the time, Crossmen did not ask for proof of age. At least they did not ask for mine. I do not know if the corps knew his age. The so called alleged "snitch" was the director of a well known Philly corps from the mid 70s. It was not the director of Bracken. Technically The Blue Stars are the ones who "snitched". There were a couple corps trying to get Crossmen disqualified in both 75 and 76, mostly from the local circuit Crossmen belonged to. Should he have known better, yes. I know he always felt bad about it. I thought I'd clear a little bit of the story up as this thread has come up a couple times in the past.

"The Way I Remember It": The overage member was a prior member of another Philly junior corps. He had left that corps to march with the Crossmen. The "Other Corps" director knew he was "Overage" and snitched to DCI, with the predictable result. "Snitching" (aka "Squealing, Narcking Out", "Dropping a Dime") seemed to be quite "In Vouge" back in the DCI of the 1970s. The 1975 Hawthorne Muchachos were on the recieving end of a "Snitch", as were the 1977 Bridgemen. Elphaba WWW

What the heck - it's a Crossmen thread - they're invited too!! BTW I was in the Foxwood's commercial where the trumpet player blows a chip out of the bell of his horn! (I wasn't the trumpet player, I was in the background). Terry is in California now. He comes on here once in a while. We can PM him!

Thought that would be a bridge in Bayonne Which the only time I saw it in 78 or 79 looked very nice over the bizarrly colored water. Seriously thanks for the date on the "warning", don't think I ever heard this before. In this day of DCI controling 99.9999% of Junior corps action it finally hit me why (probably) Crossmen could compete at World Open and UOEC... WO and UOEC were NOT DCI shows.

Legend... We were told at Whitewater, on Saturday, August 6th, prior to our prelims performance there, to pull out the "overage" members. (Two individuals) We did just that, received a warning, and continued on with the rest of tour. We placed two other individuals in their blanks. We were told that everything was fine. We were "good to go"! So, then, if DCI had such a problem with the "infractions", please tell me why they waited until the day before prelims, Wednesday, August 17th - 11 DAYS LATER, to inform us that we'd been disqualified ? <**> And if you really believe that all birth certificates were accurate, and legitimate back then, I've got a bridge to sell you, very cheap, located in Brooklyn! :P

I never understodd how DCI could stop them from competing for the rest of the season. It wouid seem that once the overage member left, they should have been able to compete.

I didn't march '76 but I did march with a lot of members who did. This photo was in our 1979 yearbook. As you can see DCI Championships were in the Crossmen's backyard. IIRC, they helped out by putting up signs and fliers;

Here's a score from Aug. 14th 1976... Saturday August 14, 1976 World Open Finals Lynn, MA 1 Blue Devils 88.75 2 Cavaliers 81.75 3 27th Lancers 81.25 4 Seneca Optimists 80.30 5 Bridgemen 79.80 6 Muchachos 76.45 7 Crossmen 73.85 8 Argonne Rebels 73.70 9 Boston Crusaders 69.30 10 North Star 67.40