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As we can tell, a few DCP'ers still want to derail the thread to make it other than what the focus should be, ie.. a petition drive to get the decision makers in the Corps and within DCI itself to do more than it currently is doing in providing a safe environment for marchers. Any attempt to make the thread as a tic for tac between DCP posters.. some of that going way back between them.... should be disregarded as most likely a deflection technigue. These DCP'ers would like this thread to be about their longstanding gripes with other posters on DCP, and by extension their dislike for this petition drive. Its neither however. We should not allow such distractions, imo... its been a civil discussion so far the last 24 hours, and for the most part, stayed on topic. Most people seem supportive of the petition drive, and its importance. Even the ones who do not support the petition, are being respected with their desire to not support it ( for one reason or another ). We've come a long way here on DCP on this thread in the last 48 hours... where initially, the petition, its originator, and its supporters were under a lot of crticism here on DCP by some posters. Thats mellowed a lot in these 48 hours, so progress it seems to me is being made here on DCP with this. Most other social media sites have been very supportive of this petition, and right from the outset.

I shared the link to this thread to the DCP Facebook page

no budgets are cumbersome already and will further divide the activity into the haves (bingoistas) and have nots (everyone else.) housing of corps is already difficult. 150 layed out sleeping bags, mattresses, and cots is already pushing the limit where corps have been given permission to stay. Any increase in members will increase costs again (Not every school is a Texas mega-factory.) those in favor have probably never actually written drill and visuals for actual competitive units particularly DCI or Grand Nationals contenders. While the bands have reverted to the pods of participants moving while the rest of the unit stands idly by, DCI scoring does not reward such unemployment even with those units who seem drill challenged for their retirements mid show, the park and barks, the stand and plays, etc. DCI needs more movement to make the shows interesting not less like some huge humongous college band of wood winds. Increasing membership removes the demand of most of the performers while sections become soloists and those others await in lounge chairs their two minutes actually on the field. The only ones benefiting from such increase are Yamaha and the fabric mfgrs. Is the OP a lobbyist for them now?

Like when I posted about dci stepping in for financial reasons why not this

I'm not sure these arguments are helping the issue anymore. Sharing the petition on social media will be a better use of everyone's time. If someone doesn't like the petition, that's fine. They don't have to sign it.

Exactly - any rules change needs to look at all the consequences. When the pit was allowed, within a few years everyone was getting concert marimbas et al, & all of a sudden needed another truck to haul them. Same with electronics. Someone suggested we should ignore logistical impacts, but I maintain that is the FIRST thing we should think about.

Imagine if this proposal ( much larger Corps ) was adopted.. oh say... a decade ago. I could easily envision 3 of the current top 8 Corps in DCI... and maybe 5 of the top 16, perhaps no longer with us. More than 1 prominent DCI Corps is struggling to keep afloat with 155 marchers in tow with their current budget/ resources that they have. With more marchers, comes more expensive instruments they'd have on the field, even bigger staffs to teach them, more mouths to feed on tour, more gas guzzling vehicles, etc and dozens of additional costs to be incurred if we had even larger Corps than what we have today.

150 is based on current bus capacity for modern-day coaches (53 is common in the busses rented today). Re: the original post, adding 50 more members would do little to improve the on-field production, and serve to increase the amount of drag for each corps when it comes to moving the members around, getting them fed, communications, etc, etc. Theoretically it would help put another 700-800 people in the stands for Finals night, but aside from that, I'm not sure I see a value for DCI in the increase.

Is something broken? You get 150 and make do. You mange costs better and drill has more dynamic movement. And increasing size diminishes overall quality if not for one unit then at least for another. And those corps fighting to recruit and retain have a much more difficult go of it. Why can't some things just be left alone?

units that big on the field look like a mess to me

I marched in a huge college band - there is a point where the field gets just too crowded. Props certainly don't help either. So, I say , go back to 128 members - the idea was that this would only require 3 busses (less carbon emissions, better for the planet, cheaper for the Corps). This could also help increase membership of smaller Corps (Pioneer come so mind) Flame shields up

Again - they have served their time -i.e., paid their debt to society. The fact that most now are put on a 'Child Sex Abuser' list as part of the sentence helps keep track of these individuals. & the databases from one state are supposed to 'talk' to databases from another state. But, as they are generally restricted from living within a certain distance of schools etc, it makes sense for something that is a youth education activity should be very wary of allowing them near youth. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure

There is a saying that goes, “An omission of the truth, when the truth is known and relevant, is still a lie”. That philosophy also applies to tolerance, or tacit approval, of an organization or person that omits or ignores an issue such as this. And a person advocating that DCI, which is the corps, which does oversee the corps, which does create guidelines for the corps, to turn a blind eye to this issue by not creating a general policy requirement for all corps to become and remain member corps is a form of tolerance and/or tacit approval.

Well, that about sums it up. See ya next summer.

The decision to sign the petition or not is pretty simple. You’re either for or against sexual abuse and harassment of marching members. All the mansplaining and amateur legal jargon isn’t going to change opinions.

Sort of like your posted response to Gar (which is now posted just before this post)? Reading the quote you used prompted me to respond to the exact same qoute you used. If those are distractions, I was merely following your lead on that one.

I’ve shared it several times on Facebook.

I see the petition is up to 906 signatures. I signed it when it was in the 20s. I wasn’t paying strict attention but I am going say I was number 27.

I am still amazed at the outrage over this petition. It's not even the least bit egregious. This is something LONG past overdue IMHO that if you are going to tout creds as "educational" and "youth" you better CYA and have policies in place. DCI puts all kinds of requirements on competing units, this isn't a stretch or a bad idea even. The amount of butthurt (outrage) seen here over a "petition" (that's not that bad IMHO) seems a tad over the top and perhaps there is more to this than we all know. Thou dost protest too much methinks....or something like that.

Ok folks, just recently turned the calendar to November and Thanksgiving weekend is three weeks away. Has anyone seen or heard about any 2018 show announcements...even rumors?

While I understand that the subject has been all over the news lately I wasn't expecting to see it on DCP. I have enough confidence in Don Acheson's ability to run an organization like DCI that I don't think a petition of this type is necessary. This seems to be a solution in search of a problem.

I heard one corps is going to have a tour called "What happened". the tail of Russian microphone hacking by pokemon....nvm

I want to stress - this is not a rampant, wild, out of control problem. Parents should not assume that every student who marches drum corps WILL be assaulted and harassed. I would argue 90% of the performers have no real issues. As for some examples besides the thoroughly discussed example at Cadets. Someone brought this up: http://www.crossmen.org/joel-moody-bio http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2010-04-02/news/os-moody-sexy-student-text-messages-20100401_1_text-messages-band-director-female-student It looks like there were never charges filed. So there's no issue with passing a criminal background check. Pioneer also had an instructor who was a registered sex offender. His sentence did not bar him from working with young people. So maybe he got caught urinating in public and got put on the list. I'm also aware of situations where a young-ish staffer got caught with older students. So think 19 year old student, 24 year old instructor. Should the instructor be given a life sentence? No. Should they be able to teach a different drum corps the next year? In my opinion, no. So again, most DCI instructors are fantastic people. Send your kid off to march. I still believe it will be a great experience. And sign the petition and then ask the directors at whatever corps you kid is marching how they feel about the petition. Ask them what their policies are for sexual harassment. Ask how complaints are documented. Ask what the social media policy for instructors is. Ask about background checks. If you and every parent of a DCI performer asked these questions, we would see some changes. These individuals that manage to slip through the cracks will find it a lot more difficult.

If this were to happen, I see them in the guard where the points are.

I didn't know it's a "prevalent problem ". I heard one example - the person Hopkins hired. If it's a prevalent problem can you educate me by citing some other examples?

a St. Patrick theme?

The activity is far too expensive for those who even think of participating. Reduce the cost and then watch to see if applicants are only willing to try for corps that are in the upper echelons. The current costs are outrageous. Yeah, I'm older. Yeah it changes nothing for how I feel as to what it takes to participate in a corps from a financial perspective. Marching is quickly becoming a luxury.

this is a big concern - most of those kids DO NOT trade down from the WC corps or two of their choice / seen it happen year after year

According to the archives the incident in 1959 and the director in 1975 are the same person. Again, that one-off situation over 40 to 50 years ago is not an example where murderers are or have been knowingly hired by various DCI corps since that incident; especially corps post Y2K. Show us court records of a murderer hired by a corps in the last 35 years and I will take this as a serious basis for argument.

Actually, in the early - mid 1970's there was a convicted murderer who directed a DCI member Corps. But the 1975 'chachos are a completely different topic.

No inside info, but my gut says GH will walk away from the deal with the Office of Leonard Bernstein. It seemed that the deal's many restrictions slowed GH's ability to tweak the show design quickly. 2018 is a year when he will not want his hands tied in any way.

Committed murderers who are released are not being hired by the corps; committed sexual offenders have been and are being hired by corps. Thus a DCI corporate policy to forbid corps from hiring murderers is not warranted, but a DCI corporate policy to forbid corps from hiring sexual offenders is more than needed.

You people with your twisted malpractice of logic are turning me away from supporting this petition. It would be better if you let it speak for itself.

Actually I see the opposite. Keep the present max size, but include prop handlers, equipment handlers and electronics' handlers (i.e. board tech). Anybody who brings "stuff" onto the field, but who doesn't march should be included in the count. This would inhibit the use of electronics, unless the corps wished to have less marching members, thus lowering the visual appeal and possibilities. More is not always better.

I think 180 would be a good starting point for upping membership

Apparently, since they have served their time, some advocate giving them a second chance to be around students.

Probably thinks this song is about him. Don’t you don’t you

LOL! A personal attack would have to be personal. Lots of drama though.

Good morning. Are we all ready for NEXT! 80 year's let's keep rolling

So, it is ok to give the sex offender, after serving time, a second shot at raping more students but not a third; that sounds like a really great philosophy to say to the second kid who gets raped due to the second chance the offender had to be around students.

This sort of dangerous thinking is why a petition with over thousand people needs to be generated, imo ....to be certain that this sort of thinking does not become further embraced by the decision makers among the Corps, and among DCI itself. I believe your opinion, garfield ( which you are entitled too, incidentally) is probably shared by too many decision makers at the moment in DCI... and such thinking needs to come to an end. Especially among the adults entrusted with a heavy duty and responsibility to protect the young, the trusting, and the vulnerable above all else. Thus.... the petition.

We’re just getting started. Share, share, share!

I also think DCI will respond correctly.

And they won Most Outstanding Music at today's BOA Super Regional with possibly the most talented field I've ever seen in a marching band competition...and they were indeed my favorite. Personally loved them going from Birdland into Medea.

Oh well. I will try to carry on. Some things are more important than trying to curry favor. I’m at that age where I don’t worry very much about being the most popular kid in class.

Swing in DCI has not had much of a presence as of late, but Jazz which encompasses a wide variety of genera is alive and well. I just have an issue with the cut, paste, inject, no time for melodic development, visually driven hiccup arranging in most modern DCI shows.

I'm usually not the petition-signing type, but I've seen/personally dealt with enough BS to know that the activity is one "60 Minutes" exposé away from getting fundamentally damaged. I was in an organization that did a lot of things right, but still had too many "open secrets." It's encouraging to see some of the bigger organizations take charge, but based on some of the Reddit bombshells I've seen, more needs to be done.

1. 2009 Probably my favorite drum corps show of all time. <SNL Stefon> This show had everything (including a didgeridoo!). Amazing music and drill. Told a story with out gaudy voiceovers, the music and visuals spoke for themselves and guided us through the almost 'wizard of oz' type story. I thought the use of green and cream was one of the most unique color schemes ever fielded. Seeing that "tinker bell" was disguised as a marching member and her reveal is probably the only time I was truly surprised by something happening on the field. Can't say enough about how perfect this show was. 2. 2008 First crack in the top 5. Probably the only "cut and paste" show I have ever liked. Intro with candide into that first impact, yowza. 3. 2012 Fantastic, but wish they would have put a little more color on the field. 4. 2015 Inferno was great, perfect program design. 5. 2006 This was the first year I really started following drum corps and I fell in love with this show. The music is fantastic. I would really like to hear them or someone else revisit some of the source music. Sure, execution wasn't as high as we know them today. That drill is beastly and included some very, umm, interesting drill sets. I encourage everyone that hasn't watched this show in quite some time to revisit to hear that brass line digging into the music. Yes it is less refined, but yeah can begin to hear the real beginning of that distinct crown sound. Also look for a young Herbert on the flag line, the start of his years 2006-2011! HM's 2010 I love love loved the Mahler and Danzon No. 2! I enjoyed this show much more than others. Sadly, the last year they really fielded the cream team. 2016 That guard and the music! 1999+2000: The start of something special. Jekyll and Hyde and The Mask of Zorro featured some great tunes. Also those guards were way above the rest of the corps. Didn't 1999 finish like 6th while the rest of the corps finished around their final placement of 11-12th? Edit: Yes, 2007 and 2013 are quite good. I just don't go back and rewatch them as much as I do for the shows listed above. Less than favorite: 2011 and 2014

Anybody else here like the 2000 Carolina Crown show... " Mask of Zorro ?. I realize it was during the early stages of the ascendancy for Carolina Crown, and it did not have the polish, music demand, and the MM talent we'd begin to find in their high placing and more successful shows that would soon follow from them in the succeeding years... but Man, I liked their Spanish themed music from this 2000 year from them...aggressive, intense, loud... and with a nice beat, I thought. Is toe taping music bad ? Not necessarily for me... lol!

Oh really? How exactly does someone get a job in today’s market without a bachelors degree? It’s quite easy for people already established or retired to say “nobody’s forcing a gun to your head” But more importantly, what changed so dramatically in the last 10-15 years to justify such a big increase in tuition? You do realize rates are going up 3-5 percent every year right? Why is that?