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I've been asked by some what I think of the latest news out of Madison Scouts. I'm still processing this, but here are a few thoughts. (You're welcome to share this if you think it expresses your own thoughts and wish, and please add your own positive thoughts.) I have always loved the Madison Scouts organization and I always will love it. Over the years, I got to know many wonderful people who instructed Scouts or were on their management team. I cherish those memories. I also got to know several who currently are involved with management. I cherish their friendship as well. I will continue to cherish those I know who lovingly give their time to the organization. Such decisions are not made lightly. I trust the decision was made in the best interest of the corps, that it was based on what is right for the corps and right for future members regardless of competitive concerns.There are bound to be mixed feelings and some feelings expressed (or hidden) that are not mixed at all. I hope this decision helps assure the survival and thriving of Scouts decades into the future. As a Former Marching Member (FMM) of The Cavaliers, I've been asked what I think this means to the organization that introduced me to this wonderful activity, a passion to which I've gone on to dedicate a huge portion of my life. I believe this isn't about The Cavaliers; this is about the Scouts and it should remain so. I don't want to take away anything away from my support of the Scouts by diluting it with conjecture regarding what the decision means to any other organization that isn't the Scouts. I've long stated that drum corps is whatever drum corps becomes. I've also long felt that tradition is whatever a corps does for more than two years. (Those just coming on board the activity, new fans whom we need for the longtime survival of drum corps, will always know Scouts as a coed corps.) Just like all the innovations that have become part of drum corps, innovations loved by some and scorned by others, time lessens the shock. Those coming into drum corps fandom now may find it hard to imagine a time when such things weren't part of the activity, and were even forbidden. I've seen corps experience highs and lows. Those that have learned from their lows have gone on to experience highs that have been a pleasure to behold. I look forward to the day when I watch the Scouts and think about not how far they've come competitively, but how wonderful it is to just plain enjoy what they're doing on the field. I anticipate relishing the thought that many youth who will be future members of the Scouts will enjoy the experience of a lifetime, one that will stay with them decades into the future and will shape their lives for the better. Until that time, I plan to continue to enjoy the product Scouts put out of the field now, a show their members worked thousands of collaborative hours to perfect and deliver to a grateful audience. And I trust those audiences are more grateful the corps still exists than they are focused on dwelling on competitive standing. Drum corps needs the Madison Scouts, whatever form the organization takes on.

I'd like to quit but I'm addicted - it really bothers me that the big dawgs mic individual horns and mix the sound of the hornline at the board - so what you are hearing is not live - it's mixed - I noticed it most with Vanguard last night in Menomonie - Bluecoats mic their soloists but I do not believe MM's are marching with wireless mics and being adjusted on the board -- To me - mixing the overall hornline sound on the board is cheating - and it sucks - and I hate it -

It looks like PR may be hitting their stride.

Just watched Spirit’s encore live on their FB feed. They included a moment of silence for Jim Ott. 💙

Today Bloo has a MUCH DESERVED free day at the Mall of America...and thanks to CMX Theaters a private showing of the movie YESTERDAY. Pretty cool!!!

I applaud the Scouts for doing what they feel they need to do to survive, grow, and thrive. I don't fault them as an individual organization; if it works, it works! After all, corps like the Cadets went coed, and it's worked out wonderfully for them. My visceral reaction is against the trend toward de-genderizing everything for the sake of a false idea of what "equality" is. Men and women are different, and it's healthy to have activities and social groups that are gender-specific. There are less and less places where men can go be with men, and women can be with women, boys with boys, girls with girls. Equality means having a Girl Scouts AND a Boy Scouts, not dissolving the distinction between the two. Again, the Madison Scouts need to do what they need to do. I just mourn the loss of yet another institution where young men can grow and learn in an environment of other men; this is especially important given the growing lack of stable father figures in homes across America.

I was hoping for something with the word "Blue" in it.

Not a great indicator. This doesn't take into account that probably most people snapping up tickets are stealth protesters. They show up loathing the activity, and hide it with cheering, sometimes even standing and clapping, etc... There'll be even more of them in the stands as the season progresses. Mark my words.

" I've long stated that drum corps is whatever drum corps becomes. " - Michael Boo It's hard to argue that fact, and I must agree with my colleague's statement, and it's philosophical implications. Tradition is important and needs to be respected. The best corps have also had a tradition of innovation. In no way are those concepts mutually exclusive. They are complimentary, and one does not diminish the significance of the other. When we were in charge, we did drum corps our way, to the best of our abilities. The Scouts, along with every other corps, have the right to choose their own way forward. Here's to the next 81 years of Madison.

That's because the Cavaliers aren't there to train on their parade.

A couple thoughts in response to your post: I think you need to provide some statistics to back up your claim that there is a "growing lack of stable father figures in homes across America." That is a very specific claim that seems coded in many ways. As an academic who studies these things, I would argue that that is not actually the case. I also take issue with your use of equality as you define it via context. Separate is not inherently equal. It is, in fact, completely the opposite. See the landmark 1954 Supreme Court decision in Brown v. Board or current equal pay issues in women's professional sports (in particular the U.S. women's national team, which sells more jersey's and performs better than the U.S. men's national team, but receives a fraction of the pay). Sure, there are physical or biological differences between the sexes, but patriarchy is a social construction, and there is a vast difference between biological sex, gender identity, and sexuality in how it is both theorized and understood. Understanding power dynamics and systems or structures of inequality is more important to this conversation than arbitrary definitions of gender or equality. We are also discussing private entities, not government or public entities. This means that they can set their own policies, and that does not prevent you or anyone else from establishing their own gender segregated activities or organizations if they so wish as long as they are not doing so with public funds. Madison going coed is not "dissolving the distinction between the two," it is simply recognizing that as a private organization they wish to be inclusive to all those who are interested in auditioning regardless of gender identity. This is not saying their cannot be all male corps or even all female corps. It is just a decision made by a private entity to update their own membership policy. Nothing more, nothing less.

Oh thank you, sir. Thank you so much! Until this very moment I earnestly believed that no man in the world could have made the US women's soccer team, but boy did you show me. I'm sure that during their fun practice match against children, their only true objective was to score more goals, and that they were more committed to that objective than to winning the World Cup. It isn't possible that I was merely paying them a compliment and recognizing their achievement in a fun way. Following Cappy's suggestion here. We'll see how it goes..

Thinking of your history and all that Madison has contributed to Drum Corps. Thank-you! May your future be bright, your loyal Alums be supportive, the 'hurt' be at a minimum, and hoping the current, talented MM's have a wonderful Summer and future w/ the corps. MYNWA

Yes, but things were tough then. We couldn't afford a loaf of bread. My dad stole a loaf of bread for us and was sent to prison for 19 years! ...at least I think that's what it was about, I might be getting it confused with something else.

I'm not so sure anyone is tearing anything down. Anything of value anyway. Does anyone seriously believe that pre-selecting (or prohibiting) based on gender is a good thing in this day and age in this activity? Or anywhere really. Let each stand on their merits, talent, character, honor, and tenacity. It's long overdue to take gender out of the equation. And I say this as a middle-aged white guy cloaked in all manner of privilege that I did not have anything to do with earning. It's high time that the girls and women who follow enjoy the same opportunities we men have had. Possibly some day we will live in a nation where we will not be judged by the shape of our hips, but by the content of our character.

Perhaps one day again corps will be rewarded for marching and playing at the same time.

Nothing aggravated me more than someone that talented being stuck behind a prop for half of the show. The thing to do was to just suit her up and put her in the line. I said that all of last year.

Yes, a Spirit home show on Jim Ott day, so they are likely wearing their black armbands.

Simple answer: insecurity. Well, that, or he simply sees everyone as children who can't understand the simple concept that all corps are spending this summer improving their shows. But here's the rub: while all corps are spending the summer improving their shows, some do it better than others

I remember, back in a different era, when the Scouts were announced as "The Madison Explorer Scouts."

Like others have said... I'm fine with it. Gives them a chance to work out some stuff. And gives the fans there a chance to see a legendary drum corps. And...maybe I'm wrong here... but perhaps this Northwest tour is easier on the BD budget, too.

It's amazing the tangent the response to my comment took. I responded to someone talking about the dearth of local shows. I responded that many of us can't afford the tickets for the few there are. Others twisted the discussion to what they paid for tour fees. Someone who earns in excess of 6 figures (proven from his 990's of course) said it was a bargain. Still comes to the same thing: if the corps stop doing community performances (parades, concerts, encores) they give flesh to GH's dream that the activity will be for the few, the elite, and the royal whether as mms, audience, or faculty (who now make a full time living in it.) The finances of the activity took an extreme turn once Yamaha entered fulltime, the Artistic Director became Costume Mistress for 2/3 of the Finalists, and shows became opportunities to increase sales for System Blue Sousaphones. Not what we caucused at all back in '72.

Yes (no) Yes (no) Yes (no) (no) Mike

Love Love Love this seasons show. This is quickly becoming a favorite production of mine for 2019. I can't wait to see what BK is going to look and sound like come Aug. Go BK

Yes, they're going to institute a "performance tax" on all WGI groups to pay for all unpaid DCI fees. Lesson to all: Don't be too quick to pay off those marching fees each summer. This plan will remain in force until they run out of other people's money to give away. Hey, drum corps teaches economics 101, too!

It's a SHOW DAY! Let's Go CROWN!!!

still here. looks like if more people are leaving my seats will get better

I do wish corps that march and play get rewarded more.

Since I love all corps equally (but one more than the others), I thought I would comment on the venue instead. What a great place to watch drum corps ... the weather was perfect, I felt like I was almost on the field (even from the top row), crowd was in to it, just a great night. I liked having the souvenir booths outside the fence with plenty of room. And now for the downers (and they were minimal ... just feel like complaining this morning): Staff - we know you have a job to do, but sitting on the steps, talking on speakerphones, talking to each other, standing up for every mello run is just a little much. We paid good money for those seats and would like to see the shows as well. Maybe the venues need a reserved staff area (like at Lucas) Fans - it's 2019. There are electronics, there are costumes, there are props - get over it. When the Cadets have electronic issues, I don't want to hear, "well, if this were drum corps, this would not be happening". Or calling a certain corps (one that I am partial toward ... but I love all corps equally) "hideous" because you don't like the color of their pants. Venue - open a second gate. It got pretty crowded trying to get in All that being said, I hope they return ... because I know I will.

Sorry the best we have is this.

What Tim said. Anyone who thinks that this decision has anything to with the financial health of the organization has never managed a business or an organization. Given the times we live in, it’s clear this conversation is something that has been taking place internally for a while and most recently become a focal point for leadership. It sounds like they’ve had the right conversations internally, consulted alumni and done their due diligence. In fact, this kind of decision might have done more damage financially, a huge risk. But they felt it was the right decision moving forward, and I think they deserve kudos for having the courage to address the issue and act on it. Here’s wishing the Scouts many years of success. Bravo

My only point on this: it’s bothered me a bit over the last few years that if I were to have a female student come to me and say she wanted to march Cavaliers or Madison Scouts because she loved what either one was doing on the field, she couldn’t. Just because she’s a young woman, no other reason. I’d have to tell her to audition for any other corps she wanted to, it just couldn’t be either of those. Yet I could encourage a male student in the same situation to feel free to audition for whichever corps he fell in love with.

Quotes from friend there: “Crown felt a little off but that brass line and Sacktig drill do not quit. Drums were on their game too.” ”Crown kinda needs a new ending but I'm sure they will do that because that's what they do lol” “Phantom very clearly turned on the "#### it" switch because they were AGGRESSIVE. Dirty as sin but the crowd ate it up. Bigger reaction than Crown and it wasn't particularly close” “Music City was campy but a lot of fun. I wish they'd give the hornline more to do, but I kinda get why” “Surf was a lot of fun. I loved the fishies lol. Super colorful and the hornline was really quite good”

I marched in a coed corps in the 80s before marching with the Scouts. I can honestly say that many of the girls that I marched with went on to be fantastic bugle players in other corps such as SCV, Phantom Regiment, Suncoast Sound, Garfield Cadets, etc. So, although I will miss the all male mystique, I will continue to support The Scouts and I think it was a smart move to go coed. And, I honestly believe that it should have been done a lot sooner. Their potential talent base just got a lot larger to draw from by this move. Kudos! MYNWA!

looking at the Radar it appears to be good.

The title/OP of this thread reminds me of what goes on with alumni corps. Please don't misunderstand... not a bashing here, I have a lot of friends with those corps. But every year, I hear from a bunch of folks in a number of the corps, "That's it... I'm done with drum corps. Time to hang it up"... and a few months later, they're back with their corps. A friend of mine calls the months between September and December "quitting season." LOL.

I am happy with the way this is all working out. If they had been beating SCV every night out of the gate, I might feel differently. But they edged them at their last head to head which has to be a psychological advantage for them. And we know they are adding and cleaning, so the anticipation of that first full line up is amped even higher!

Don’t particularly give a crap about somebody’s timer. This show is astonishing.

Having seen them play, it seems possible that men have always been allowef to try out, but none have been good enough to make the team.

Well, it is 7/8 Day, so...

Inclusion and diversity is a good thing. I'll never believe otherwise. Good on the Madison Board (who, it should be noted, are more than just the ED) who voted for this. Mike

Now when you see the Madison Scouts this summer, you’ll know you’ll be seeing the “Men of Madison” for the last time. Everyone will know it’s the end of one chapter and 2020 will be the beginning of another.

Did I see something over the weekend that someone running for president was campaigning on "forgiving all drum corps member loans?" I should have paid more attention.

My goodness do the Bluecoats have a massive show. Just outsized in every way - big and in your face musically, and moments happening all over the field visually. Their pit alone stretches 30 yards! It definitely "feels" like a championship show, especially when compared directly to Vanguard. Right now, it just seems like a two-horse race which may yet reduce further once Bloo and BD meet up. (And I totally dig Madison's show. YPG on to the end is just a treat.) Mike (Oh, and Colts - holy cow are they good this year!)

When I marched in the mid '70's I paid $700 per season. $700 to $4,000 in 40 years is about 4.5% cost inflation per year. Considering the decline in the supply of marching opportunities, that doesn't sound like hyper-inflation in tour fees to me. Price a week at Interlochen or a summer of travel-field hockey (or name your kid-sport) and I think it's pretty clear that the drum corps experience value proposition is still quite high.

Your virtue signaling is noted. You get a star. Now, if only this move had anything to do with equity and opportunity. It didn’t. It was about survival of the corps that was having trouble attracting marching members. Among other things (such as, attempting to provide cover for an administration that has failed).

Being under the radar in the Northwest worked out pretty well for them in 2017...

I'm all in suspense because you haven't revealed which corps you are partial towards.

That's why core has a peel. OK, if people wish me dead for that, I'll understand.

The Cavaliers have never had a female member and then told her she could no longer be a part of the corps. Madison yes. Cavaliers no. To me, basically kicking a member out of a corps for not being the right sex (Phantom/Crossmen) is far worse then knowing an organization with an all male tradition of 70 years won’t let me audition.