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Showing content with the highest reputation on 07/11/2019 in all areas

  1. Very interesting comparison, and a great way to illustrate how design has evolved over the last 30 years. The single biggest difference I see is in the talent level of the performers. I was in the '87 mellophone line at Garfield, and in this era I'd be lucky to march anywhere in the Top 12. We had lead players who could not read music. Today nearly 50% of the players are some form of music major. When you have that level of performer you can do more musically. That said, it seems the brass played a larger percentage of the show in '87 than in '17. Heck, we only put our horns down for one 40 count move, otherwise they were up the entire time. Percussion is another story, they're playing almost the full show with high visual demand. You also make a strong case for the basic design premise that there is an inverse relationship between musical and visual difficulty. You're correct that one can't reasonably expect players to move playing the intricate chromatic-triple-tonunging stuff that's prevalent today. One thing I think you've overlooked is the difficulty of the Zingali-style "reshape" drill. Today's linear drills require extreme precision, but many of them are built off of set points on the field, using hashes and yard lines as alignment tools. A reshape has no such anchor, and requires extremely good form control. Another fundamental change I see in design is the choice of music itself. The Blue Devils in particular graft a lot of bits and pieces together, which allows the designers to build the show exactly as they want. The challenge in '87 was to convey the essence of an orchestral work on a football field, and the design choices stemmed from that. One isn't necessarily better than the other, they just approach the design from different directions. It's nice to see something I was a part of is still remembered, and its flattering to be compared to a show like '17 BD. That show was sparkling clean, and seemed almost effortless from the corps. The great ones make it look easy.
    11 points
  2. After my first comparison, some of you voiced that you would rather pick a different show from the 80's-90's (one that some regard more highly than the Star '91 program) and then compare it to a far more controversial program from the present... Which to me doesn't seem like a fair exercise, but heck!... I aim to please! We take another look at a couple of DCI shows from yesteryear and today to compare the design and technical difficulty. We are looking at Garfield Cadets 1987 and compare it with Blue Devils 2017... The very best of a time gone by with the very controversial of the present. YouTube source videos are linked in the description to this one. Get together your babies, underwear and sledgehammers! Throw at will!:
    8 points
  3. BOSTON! posted from the DrumScorps app
    8 points
  4. Man it’s really too bad Crown show doesn’t have a deep compelling message like a Beatles medley or a show about a kid on stilts lol
    8 points
  5. I don’t care about scores. My favorite show this year is from the same corps as last year. It’s all about the music for me. That’s why I sit in the blast zone. Hearing aids have Bluetooth now so what the heck.
    8 points
  6. you've got to love someone registering for an anonymous account and their very first post is demanding information from someone with a long standing reputation in the activity who actually goes by THEIR NAME and has for decades posted accurate information on this site and RAMD prior to DCP
    7 points
  7. As for commenting on these two FANTASTIC shows, below are my thoughts. Both shows are incredible and two of the legendary shows in DCI history, even with BD's '17 production being relatively young. Both shows were/are the model for the activity at their time. BD's 17 show represents a style that many other corps are trying to copy in today's activity. A few corps have found their own unique version of this style, which I feel really began with BD in 2008. Corps like the Bluecoats, Crown, SCV, Cavaliers, and now Boston seem to have made nice transitions to a unique version of this style. The Bluecoats, to me, have further defined their own style with the way they have used props and electronics, not to mention uniforms, that i believe has even surpassed BD in that regard. This is most noticeable in 2014, 15, 16, and 17. And a real jazz show as well in 2018. Both corps perform extremely well (back to BD and Cadets) Both shows were fan friendly. BD gets some criticism over the years for not being very fan friendly, but that has not been the case from 2014 and on. The 2017 show rocked the dome in Indy, just as Cadets rocked the house in Madison in 1987 (and so did SCV). Specific Comments on the Two Shows: Garfield Cadets 1987 Cadets brass and field percussion are playing more. The music source material, as you noted, is from one composer and one piece. In this era of drum corps (and band) it was typical to write the music first and craft the visual to work with the music. Think of the music being like the movie in a theater, and the visual drill was more like the music soundtrack, but to the music. This was the typical way to develop a show back in the day. This is different today. Garfield's music is really arranged like a transcription of the orchestral ballet. Phrases are longer than what we typically hear today, and dramatic builds are more defined and given time to develop. Brass line definitely needed endurance to play the book considering the time they had the horns to their faces. Battery percussion is playing and marching a lot. The responsibility of the pit is solid, but not overwhelming or nearly as diverse in instrumentation as we see today. The visual program is very demanding, especially for that time. But Zingali gives us more. It isn't just about demand and velocity. He gives us Art, beauty, perhaps one of the most aesthetically pleasing and polished visual books in DCI History. In addition to this being a terrific music book by Michael Klesch and who ever did percussion (I forget), the visual actually conveys the music as well as the music does. The drill moves when it needs to, pauses when it needs to, picks up velocity at the right moments,. and uses curves, angles, depth and width to paint the music to the field. They are not marching a routine for the sake of doing something hard. It should be noted that we do not see many shows today that utilize the 2-step, and even 1-step intervals that you frequently see in this show. The company front hit point and the following development of a dissolve (tension) and rebuild of the front (release) combine for one of the great impact moments in DCI History, certainly for the 80s and 90s. When I saw this show I don't think I was worried about demand or velocity or how high some kid could play, etc. I walked out of the stadium realizing that I had seen a work of art like never before...and nothing else mattered. Their score and placement did not matter. SCV was just as good. But the artistic quality to Garfield in 1987 is sure to be remembered by any and all who ever saw the show live, and perhaps even on video. Comments on BD 2017 coming in a little...
    7 points
  8. Or said even more differently, “How about those Cavies!” Cavies have a great show among several great shows. Stay proud, Dad!
    7 points
  9. I'm loving this FantaSea show! posted from the DrumScorps app
    6 points
  10. I think there is plenty of cohesiveness for my taste- it's definitely more cohesive than any of the past 2 Crown shows. It makes much more sense to me than SCV's show.
    6 points
  11. Bear with me for a second. But: Have you ever heard of HIIT (high intensity interval training)? It’s a workout technique in which you alternate between a high-intensity exercise (say, sprinting) and a medium or low-intensity exercise (say, walking, jogging, etc.) at set time intervals — say, 30 seconds. It is considered to be one of the most effective, and also tiring and physically demanding, cardio workouts you can subject yourself to. I do it 3-4x a week with my trainer, and it kills me every time. I bring it up because if you look close, BD’s design strategy in moments like “Flight of the Bumblebee” has a pretty funny resemblance to HIIT. Their take on the song is arranged like so: sprinting / stationary playing with dancing / sprinting / playing while moving / sprinting / stationary horn runs / uptempo marching+playing. That is the entire outline of “Flight of the Bumblebee” as BD performed it in 2017. So, to my point. This is a conversation about difficulty. Anytime someone says BD or any another corps doesn’t march + play enough they usually follow it by saying or implying that therefore shows today aren’t as difficult. The implication is that marching+playing sits atop the difficulty hierarchy, and everything else — playing+dancing, etc. — is automatically less difficult. Mind you, no one who says that has any data to that effect; even that big BD/Star comparison thread someone linked to rested on pretty big assumptions about how “easy” it is to dance while playing. At the very least, people who feel this way need to admit that it’s complete conjecture. I have a feeling that despite the overwhelming number of opinions about dance on DCP, very few people here have actually danced in some trained, organized capacity. Anyway: Here we have a corps who’s approach to “Flight of the Bumblebee” — a fast, tricky, nimble, indisputably difficult chart — is for the full horn-line to perform it while doing High-intensity interval training — a BEAST of a cardio regimen, something that was designed to exhaust and challenge you. Here’s what I’m saying. If you’re only evaluating drum corps from the strict perspective of “Are they playing while marching?”, I think you overlook some pretty big nuances like this, nuances and truths about what it takes to perform these shows that simply cannot be boiled down to “playing+marching = most difficult.” That attitude is how you get comments like yours above: “Sure, they are doing some difficult things while playing.” Well, no — in fact, they’re doing a lot more than that, including sprinting before AND after playing, which in no way resembles the not-at-all-athletic corps you seem to be describing. In order to see that though — and I’m gonna be a broken record about this — people need to start paying attention to what IS happening on the field rather than what they WANT to be happening on the field. I completely accept that today’s style just isn’t for some people. But the argument that it’s EASIER is completely absurd. No one who’s really paying attention can in their right mind walk away with the sense that drum corps today is easy. I think you it to owe the kids on the field to be a wiser and more empathetic audience than that, because — unlike us — they are busting their tails out there doing it.
    6 points
  12. Not exactly a stretch to me. The show is about sacred geometry, which is all around us if you look beneath the surface. It's in the drill and the props, beneath the surface of what seems like just a general good drum corps show.
    6 points
  13. Next week's BD vs Bloo matchup shaping up to be epic. Can't wait. Devils be ready. Those phenomenal men and women from Canton are no joke!!!!!
    6 points
  14. Spirit taking the field posted from the DrumScorps app
    5 points
  15. Just heard Spirit's warmup on FB live. Good Lord! That is a hard book! Sounded great.
    5 points
  16. I guess I hear all the complaints about the use of pop samples but man ... If I had to choose between a quick, catchy, plainly audible, balanced, studio-produced sample of a Britney Spears song versus a live singer or narrator with huge swathes of airtime who’s falling out of tune etc., I’m going to pick the samples. I get that some people vote NEITHER, but we’re way past that point. Pick your poison. At least BD keeps this stuff short. You get, what, 2 quick Britney lyrics? SOME corps have people singing entire songs and practically reciting The Complete Shakespeare sonnets and telling entire life stories on that dang field, and to my mind that’s much much worse.
    5 points
  17. Weather definitely iffy but chances of rain seem to be decreasing compared to what was predicted earlier. I’m bringing a First Timer to the show tonight so I hope the rain gives us a break! posted from the DrumScorps app
    5 points
  18. I'm feeling an 85. something tonight boys and girls, Hoping theres a Periscope or vid up of the show, Excited to see additions/changes from the past couple of days, with the design team on the road..
    5 points
  19. Alright Boston. Show what your hard work can do. Eat em up Giants.
    5 points
  20. No kidding. The only math I want to learn at a show is how many steps is it up to the concourse to get a beer.
    5 points
  21. Just saw/heard the show changes and all ive got to say is hot ####. That horn line is on fire. Shows starting to make sense and is getting cleaner. Wow. The ending is much better. I don’t know much about the technical aspects of guard, but who cares? They are incredible and have so many wow moments and are in your face begging to be watched the whole time. This IS the Cavaliers.
    5 points
  22. hardly am I rumor mongering. more is coming, and it will change the perception of many.  Rumor mongering is exactly what you are doing. That last sentence is a tease without any evidence, it doesn't matter that you "know" or "don't know" any "inside" information. I am very uncomfortable seeing information about an alleged sexual assault being put on A DRUM CORPS DISCUSSION BOARD for entertainment purposes. Even if it was on the front page of the NY Times, there is no place for it here. Talk about corps practices and policies all you want, that has some value and is appropriate content. If people want to pursue the information about a sexual attack on Twitter or whatever, they can do that. DCP should not provide a medium where sexual assault details regarding a child is published. I don't care whether it is drum corps related or not. It's inappropriate. I have no idea why mods have not locked this thread yet and deleted it.
    5 points
  23. Eat 'em Up, BAC! Take no prisoners. ••|•|••• ♥ Ro-ah ~
    5 points
  24. A corps doesn't lose points by not doing shows. If that was the case the Blue Knights would be struggling to make finals every year. 😉 If anything their score should be even better as they've had more time to rehearse and get better. If they do indeed fall behind it will not be due to them not scheduling shows. Corps close the gap due to improving more or less than another corps. It can also happen when corps make drastic changes. Sometimes those changes take time to get better and scores may be lower at first and then climb once that new change is fixed. Don't sweat the scores. The Cavaliers are incredible this year. The top 6 are some of the strongest shows we've seen in years.
    5 points
  25. To be fair, that is a pretty big deal. Anecdotally it seems to have generated a great deal of interest in the Corps from a new pool of potential MMs, and that is a good thing going forward.
    5 points
  26. Sounds like tonight was a really cool event tied together with the GearWorks camp. I really wish I could have stayed for the show because in addition to my life long love for the Cavaliers, I have crazy LOVE for Legends (my son marched there as well) and we are proud to call both corps family. It was great to see them doing something in Michigan together and kudos to the Cavaliers for including them 💚💙
    5 points
  27. BD and Bluecoats have an intrinsic understanding of live event design and production. I dare say you could probably move those two teams (and budgets) to any other world class corps and they would immediately win a medal. They are simply that good, and that much better than everyone else in the activity.
    4 points
  28. I think Crown fans believe they should win the gold every other year. I don’t think the rest of the drum corps fan base believes this.
    4 points
  29. So true. It’s all about semantics. But nice to read a post about how much we love Crown. On the Crown thread. What a novel concept...
    4 points
  30. I'm not seeing BAC live until Indy this year. That's unusual but kind of cool, I know I'll be blown away. 😮
    4 points
  31. Just curious... what would a 6-day break have to do with being flat and technical? I would think the extra rehearsal time would lead to serious improvements across the board. Yeah, I'm also looking forward to some possible revisions on the back end. The first 8.5 minutes have been very effective. The ballad (and the lead in to it) has needed design attention.
    4 points
  32. So, back to Crown, I posted these thoughts elsewhere, but I guess I'll share them here as well... This is based off of watching the drone footage posted a few days ago from CrownBEAT. - The guard completely disappears for half the show due to their uniforms. They're really good this year and I believe that they could be vying with Boston right now if it weren't for the uniforms. The staging isn't the issue for me, as they are very well integrated into the show. Maybe having them move the props around could be a hindrance in the guard scores, but I'm not sure that would be counted as they don't have equipment in their hand and they're not dancing. - Dirt. There is still SO MUCH DIRT in this show, but it's also the 11th of July and this was filmed 6 days ago. I'm sure some cleaning has already been done, and will continue to be done. Will it be enough? Hopefully. - For the love of everything pure and holy, please make sure that the stage is parallel with the pit. That's VERY eye catching. I would also say that the floor of the stage should be painted something other than solid black. Maybe something to mimic the uniforms or the props. Just something that would add some color to the field that could be seen from box level. - The props aren't doing anything for me. While they are utilized occasionally throughout the show, I don't think they are being utilized enough. Have members stand on them and play their parts while they are being moved, guard do some tosses on them, just something to bring the attention to them and have them have some sort of use other than just sitting there because for the most part they blend into the field during most of the show, which brings me to another point. They need more color added to them. The stained plexiglass isn't showing up if you're any further than I'd say about 10th row back, maybe further? I haven't seen the show in person but it's certainly not showing up on videos from stadium level. - I feel like the moment where the percussion drops out in the closer just slows everything down and breaks down the energy that was built up to that point. Not sure if that's just a personal preference or not. Does anybody know if they are planning on putting something inside the newly added shapes on the stage or are they just leaving them hollow? If they're leaving them hollow they're going to fade into the field, and if they put something inside of them it's going to be a hindrance during the ballad. I still say they should just bring the corps up onto the stage during the ballad.
    4 points
  33. I think the usefulness of this thread probably ended after the first few pages. We say we are only hearing one side of the story. Not accurate. There are three sides of the story and a police report which serves as backup documentation, and we have yet to hear any. The three sides: The Cadets version, the perpetrator’s version, and the victim’s version. The two others in the room were sleeping so there is no story there, and we can’t assume the mother is speaking on behalf of her son. Perhaps she is, but this would not be the first time a kid wanted something dropped but a parent, often coming from the right place, cannot do it. Whether there are family issues, whether the mother is stable, whether the mother wants more money, etc., are not relevant to the issue at hand. Her lengthy letter and attachment of the police report may be a bit over the top, but the issues that upset her may have little to do with her perceived short comings that so many have been quick to share. The problem is most likely being cut from the Cadets when Cadets knew what happened the previous summer. The reason the mother states he was cut is because her son put on too much weight and was out of shape. She also claims he is battling PTSD, which is often treated with anti depressants and anti anxiety medications and a side effect is weight gain. I can see where a parent might think “My son was cut because he gained weight because of medications he had to take because of something that happened while in your care.” Cadets could argue that in auditions everyone is on the same level playing field, and that’s probably true, but I’m not sure a parent would see it that way. The fact he was accepted to march with another corps: Cadets would view it as the chance for a fresh start, which I would argue is an excellent solution. A parent might see it as they do not believe my son, or they just want to get rid of him.
    4 points
  34. A great design usually works on multiple levels. There were well designed shows BITD before themes and show names because they had a great intrinsic flow from beginning to end that drew you in and didn't let you go. If a show doesn't have that fundemental level of engagement, it usually doesn't matter how clever or profound the "theme" is, the general audience will likely lose interest. Since the Bluecoats designs were brought up here, I'll use their show as an example : On the surface, it would seem to be a simple "Beatles medley " along with a visual that is in keeping with the Beatles vibe; colorful, whimsical, a bit mystical, and so on. It totally works on that level because the arrangements and viz program draws you in in a way not unlike some of the best pre-theme era shows BITD. For those interested in finding a deeper meaning or wondering why the choice of this material was made by the designers, with a bit of thought (or the explanation of the designers) it becomes apparent that this show is not really about the Beatles after all but uses them as a model to explore the real subject of the show, "The Bluecoats". The Bloo/Beatles connection is all about how both groups had a massive influence on their art form through innovation, experimentation, technical advancements, influencial stylistic evolution etc... all while having the desire to appeal to a wide audience. The show has many call backs to many signature elements of their recent ground-breaking shows that can be easily identified if you have been following their work over the past decade. In some ways it is kind of a "Metamorph in Bloo" (with a subtext of a show filled with historic corps references) with a Beatles veneer. As clever as that may be, it wouldn't matter if the surface "Beatles medley" and engaging visual program didn't work as intrinsically enjoyable drum corps.
    4 points
  35. First BAC show in a while. Apparently Boston's last brass score is higher than SCV's most recent, despite being 5 days old...different shows, I know. Just thought it was interesting, especially for anyone who wants them to medal this year, they'll (likely) have to displace one of Bluecoats, BD, or SCV. By the way, I found that info using DCIscores.com, who just pushed an update allowing you to track not just overall score, but also caption/subcaption scores. I know there are other sites that do this, but I was just putting it through it's paces and it works quite well!
    4 points
  36. EAT EM' UP BOSTON!! Finally a show day!
    4 points
  37. There are a few videos out there (on YouTube) from the CrownBeat show of a guy in the box recording sound and video (and one video from a drone) and all I have to say is the quality of sound and video is a million times better than anything flow has produced this year by far...now granted this is not a live stream video....but it is really great HD quality...with that said....there must be some room for improvement for flo's broadcast...it's not like it's their first rodeo...they have been doing this for awhile now...perhaps they should consult with the guy from the box...lol
    4 points
  38. Emma will vouch for them fully, Denise https://www.dci.org/static/denise-bonfiglio DCI Hall of Fame and her history with Cadets is legendary. She has remained relevant in the activity through SCV IW program and her judging. A perennial judge come Finals week in WGI.. She knows what is good and what is not. Darcie is Dartmouth.. She is responsible for the Theatrical elements and design in Darmouth PSW's line for as long as Tom has been there.. Immense Talent, always unique and fresh.. YOu need only look at Darthmouth to be satisfied that she has some ideas and can execute them if given the right team. As an Alum I would put all of my faith in these two especially to right the ship, I frankly would not be surprised if they somehow manage to convince Jeff to come back. He is in a much better space now and he has worked with both Darcie, Tom and Denise in the past.. The Cadets have a very strong Alumni tree who have gone on to do great things in the marching arts and now that GH is gone, will hopefully start to brings these people back that have been pushed away in the past.
    4 points
  39. back in the day Cadets were one of 2-4 really competitive corps each season now there are 6 - and the next 5 behind them aren't messing around either I've always felt that if this season the Cadets can get one of the music captions into the top 3 (looks like percussion has a shot) and the other more closely competitive (brass is improved this year) it would be a positive step I know all of us want them to instantly have the best of everything and be right there with BD - but it will likely take several seasons I'm most disappointed by "the show" - compared to the others around it it reeks of amature design - the design descriptions leading up to the season had us all worried, let's face it Cadets should have gone in a non literal direction (say On the Waterfront) and just put sound visual design on the field Bringing back the drill guy shocked me. And yet they did. I don't really wonder why - I figure either the price was right (as they dig themselves out of a financial hole) or they felt all the 2018 team had earned a shot at 2019 without we know who In my book, if it was the later - that's a mistake. It's not about the staff. It's about the members. I do think "the grownups are in charge" now at Cadets. I bet they make the smartest changes possible between now and finals - and I know the members will work hard Then I have a feeling a revamp of visual design will be job #1 in late august. The good news is there are amazing folks available in the indoor/BOA world and Cadets can draw up a dream team given the chance. But before all that I'm excited to see the next few weeks - go Cadets!
    4 points
  40. I'm willing to give them a little pass this year. If the material they were given wasn't fitting their vision than perhaps they can bring in someone who will. I will fault them for not making this decision in the offseason, though. They knew what they were getting. It's not like his drill was mind blowing last season and just didn't deliver. It looked pretty similar to last year. The way it currently stands, I am sad to say this is pretty close to the bottom of my favorite Cadet shows. There's plenty of time to convince me otherwise but they have a lot of work to do. The storyline itself is lacking for me and the original idea of the attack on the Queen was pretty tone deaf- I don't give them a pass on that. I will credit them for at least listening and changing. The drumline is fantastic! Hornline still needs a lot of work. There's still time, but time is running short.
    4 points
  41. I think its plain to see for anyone that has watched the show that the drill is not doing enough.. The Cadets are synonymous with Velocity and this drill of the top Twelve is the "slowest" of the bunch. Sure there are other problems but they are being exposed because frankly there is not much else to look at in the show. Knowing the level that Denise and Darcie are used too, I would absolutely see where upon watching it a couple of times would summarize that the drill was not enough and if that was expressed after the opener and the drill writer gave me that ballad and closer you would not have any confidence with them going forward.. (Just spitballing, no clue what actually happened) It always tough when you have two factions of a design team that try to make it work come together not by choice but rather convenience. They tried to give it a go but clearly did not work visually this year. Going forward I have confidence in Denise and the Aungst's to get a full team in that they are comfortable with and will give us a great production next year. Meanwhile The Cadets are relentless and will make the best of what they have and take this show as far as they can.
    4 points
  42. I think Crown is going to have a strong next couple weeks and really silence some of these keyboard critics. Their show has more rom to grow than a couple others around them imo go Crown!
    4 points
  43. FTFY. Watch Crown in person. You won't have any trouble with accessibility. It's a really good drum corps show and live -- you just don't care if you don't get every nuance. Bluecoats and Boston -- same thing (although I find Boston's show a little TOO obvious -- that's just me). Actually I take that back. There's nothing sophisticated about Boston. They are hit you over the head with a big hammer obvious -- far from a "sophisticated" design. Nothing wrong with that approach -- just not what I'd call sophisticated at all.
    4 points
  44. Phantom 2006 “Faust” as well. We’re on a football field. Simple themes(good vs Evil) work well on the big stage.
    4 points
  45. Don't....take...the....bait....
    4 points
  46. They did go back to the way it originally was, which I think was smart. On another note, the members hanging/laying on the stages now at the beginning of the ballad is a really simple but nice visual effect.
    4 points
  47. And maybe because the corps that's won the most are Devils... Can't beat 'em, join 'em...
    4 points
  48. According to Music City's FB, we should be underway in a few minutes! posted from the DrumScorps app
    3 points
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