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Yes I have worked for a non profit and to survive they had to totally think out of the box and realize that what worked yesterday was not going to move them forward... If you think it can be done and kids today want this AND you think funds can be acquired, you need to let someone take the reigns and do it. It takes money and lots of it to start the very basic ( as I said ) guard or percussion group , let alone a full drum corps But HEY go for it, I do know what its like to start a group and it is far from the days of lets find a church basement for free and get a few kids in tee shirts. Can there be community instruction on the arts? Sure, Cadets and Boston are doing this as well as BD etc etc. Making a drum corps is quite another story There has also been corps who have given tuition free to some individuals. Corps have given over the years opportunity to those either deserving or who have the desire to work hard and contribute to what is needed for themselves. Corps , guards and percussion lines have also gone bust by some of the members because of good hearted directors who were taken advantage of...FACT! Thanks for the conversation. We will have to agree to disagree I suppose. This is what makes the world go round as well as makes people think..one way or another 🙂

I think it's pretty much you show up, you get about a 48. Play a note or two, take a step or two, and you break 50 😉

The employer’s. And I’m not kidding. Unless the employer can show they provided some sort of safety training or written procedures that cover how to work at heights, and that the employee knowingly ignored them. That is just the world we live in today.

Imagine hopping on a message board and deciding to post this while also thinking that it's something other than moronic and shameful.

Allowing everything without restrictions has killed a LOT of creative thinking and growth in the activity IMHO.

Unfortunatly, free speech is only acceptable when others agree with ones opinions and positions. Any difference of opinion is shamed and shouted down. These poor brainwashed youth.

YES...….Which is where many of todays MMs come from thanks in large part to drum corps peoples involvement for decades now

Soundspirt groups are a great place to start those groups. Even better...scholastic music education. If I were going to expend effort and garner grass roots support, it would be to push for public music education if it does not exist...or push it with parents if it does exist at some level.

Man so much conjecture and jumping to conclusions. Maybe let the lawsuit play out.

And I thank you for a thought provoking conversation. Much appreciated.

Congrats. Lots of options. My thinking is always based on whether I want to see drill and big picture or catch music at its loudest. Generally, I think sections 239, 240, and 241 are good overall. Most seats are Friends of DCI, perhaps. I sat this year in the top row of 140, and I loved the sound. Plus, 140 is the section in which @Terri Schehr sits (I think). I’ve never met mega celebrities like her, but assume she knows the best seats! 😄

Try negotiating liability coverage for a group of 170 19 and 20 year olds in a social fraternity on a Big 10 campus.

Run while you can Jeff, there's no escaping the tag team duo of Continental and Sutasaurus once they get started 😂😂

Do you really believe regionally will attract the support, the members and will change cost that much? Take a bus out for even a few days is many thousands of dollars, feeding people does not change unless you are sending them home like 40 years ago, costuming/uniforms wont change . Staff cost, no change. As for show types, these kids love what they are doing and want nothing less, as we did BITD. AS I said these members today have way more choices than we did as young people and they are just not looking for something to do. Is cost crazy to march in Drum Corps , YES it is BUT what activity can you go away for 3 months, food and transportation for 3 months, instruction, costuming, equipment etc etc for the cost. Being a dancing little bumble Bee in a little kids dance recital is also over the top these days and the cost of 1 dance number for 1 performance can be more than uniforms for a season for a MM. Welcome to 2019 I do believe ( as you said )you may see in addition to what we have now an evolution ( which has started ) ( Sound sport Type ) whether it's on a field or not I'll reserve my opinions on that at the moment. I do believe though it may not be what you might be thinking. Don't get me wrong, there is a part of me who misses times that were much more simple BUT a fantasy on many of the 2019 realities of life makes me respect and even miss sometimes the past but to move forward and be prepared interests me more . For me this is just not for drum corps but most things. Of course that's what works for me and doesn't mean it has to be for others. Thanks for your views , opinions and conversation.

This is pretty interesting https://bluecoats.com/news/2019/9/13/strategic-plan-2022

if you don't like it, you don't have to follow it then go online and complain. The regional model has passed. you can't plan financially for a season where you don't know what your end game is

Wuuuut?

In this case, wouldn't the insurance renewal rate go up astronomically? Then again, there is the chance that the insurance company chooses to not renew after a large settlement.

Count me in as a fan of substantial change. As a parent of two performers for the past 5 years, it’s very clear that the arms race in the WC corps is driving costs up for members. I can safely say that the total cost of having 2 kids march every year is in the five figure range (tour fees, travel to camps, show tickets, etc). And if you dare to figure in the opportunity cost of all the parents’ time volunteering on the national tour, or even the kids’ lost opportunity for summer internships, this is a really really costly thing for the average household to absorb. Consider this too - right now much of the fan base is older folks who marched in the 60s, 70s, 80s (count me in) and have the resources to pay thousands to travel and watch. But we were part of this when there were hundreds of corps on tour. Now there are at most 40, so the future base of passionate fans will be a lot smaller. You can only put so many parents in the stands. And the financial pressure on the remaining corps is substantial, so the numbers are going to keep going down IMHO. Who will be watching this 10 or 20 years from now? How many corps can continue to survive the financial arms race that is built to protect the top crust of the activity from any threat of parity? I for one have little interest in buying tickets once my kids are done performing. Who wants to pay big 💰 to go watch the same 2 or 3 corps win every year? <yawn> A different competitive model that lowers the financial barrier to entry will broaden the base and make drum corps more interesting. I just can’t see this activity being relevant if it doesn’t change.

A Shame? A circus? well that's a pretty disrespectful statement toward todays drum corps, ALTHOUGH a circus does make a lot of people happy. With that said, ever consider if not for todays traveling circus as you put it and the evolution of drum corps, there may not even be an activity today ? Most local, take kids off the streets, civic as well as church organizations , etc etc have long been gone and for many reasons. In many ways the evolution thanks to many drum corps people HS band has filled that void. Even running just a local percussion line or a guard and the huge cost involved with few people, try securing a part time rehearsal facility, fees for joining local and national circuits, costuming, equipment, etc. Nothing is cheap or Free as Jeff stated. I was part of the early days of DCI, taught ( teach ), judge, have directed and designed ( as you did ) for me as much as I loved what I did as a MM I would have loved to be on that end of the activity today. Also as far as offering a NEW raft of people like women, people of color,or LGBTQ individuals opportunity, what makes you think this hasn't been going on for decades already. You are right drum corps as well as many long gone organizations were built locally . KIds today aren't looking to just get out of the house, not hang out on a corner,etc etc.Kids today have way more choices than we did BITD Maybe I'm just misunderstanding your statement , SO if I am my apologies. If I'm not...…….well......😬

My guess is that the marching members are asked to sign waivers, but in many cases, the waivers are not worth the paper they are printed on, as people in school settings know. For field trips, parents are asked to sign permission slips that wave the school and chaperones of any accidents on field trips. They almost never hold up in courts. Liability insurance would most likely pick up the tab, but waivers are not of much value.

Are you saying he doesn't have a leg to stand on!

There have been fatal, prop related, performer accidents in recent years on Broadway as well as in Cirque de Soleil; I fear the current 'props arms race' in DCI will lead to a performer getting seriously injured (or worse). IDK how much the recent emphasis on safety addresses props, but I think prop safety is something that needs to be closely scrutinized.

before we draw conclusions it might be best to let it play out...

The local units mostly died out decades ago. Competitive HS bands...thousands of them nationwide...took their place. There is just no driving need or interest in resurrecting that old model. DCI was not built on local corps. It was built by the top corps. They let local corps compete, but they were not the impetus for DCI.

No you didn't...

Oh NO sir, we would NEVER have alcohol on our property accessible to minors..

And this, Ladies & Gentlemen, is why there is a Lawsuit.

Completely agree that waivers don't do much at all. The thing w/ liability insurance is that the company providing it will want to know EXACTLY what they are signing up for. And when they find they are being asked to provide liability insurance to a 150-member traveling amateur performance group that has performers running up and down ramps, climbing various structures all while concentrating to play an instrument or spin a flag, I suspect the insurance will be (1) real expensive, or, (2) they say 'no thanks we don't want your business'.

The staircase props from this year's show might have been put to good use.

Employer says “climb up there and yada yada”. Employer doesn’t provide safe climbing equipment. Such as a spotter, someone to hold the ladder and so on. Employee falls and gets hurt. Hard to see how employer escapes responsibility for this. Plus the employee was never paid any wages? Oh boy.

Someone like you with the experience you have on this board is the last person I would expect that response from. So it must be the cold taking over your body and making you a completely different person than you usually are.

and you get credit (today) for your prudence. 🙂

Have you ever been banned with the multitude of posts you have on here? Most really don't say anything offensive.

well to be honest, i didn't feel like being banned today

and HGTV.

Sounds like another candidate for the new judging terms thread.

It's been my contention for awhile now that DCI as an organization and as individual corps has/have been living beyond its means for several decades now, is suffering from a severe case of megalomania, and has switched from being an activity primarily for the kids to become a tool for the manufacturing lobbyists and full time crowd making their annual salaries from their so called creative work. Comparing itself to MLB, Cirque, Broadway, and other mega-million professional luxuries is but a sample of the delusions. Of course those who make their annual salaries will bloat their importance, their genius of creativity, and their need for extravagance (keeping up with the Joneses, the prop and costume "arms races," Sousaphones and electronix, etc.) Attendance seems to show that the audience isn't buying it anymore. It's time to get back to basics at a price families and mms can afford for the good of the mms, not the staffers.

thats what it was. I was there, but 11, so i knew my memory may be faulty

Plaintiff mentioned has been a long time volunteer and driver for various corps i.e. BK, BD, Troopers among others. He also marched in the 70's with the USAF drum and bugle corps. When I didn't see him or hear of his whereabouts this summer, some of his closest friends only heard he was taking the summer off. Get well Tony.

Some corps should do the music from West Side Sto...... Nevermind.

That may be just for the design. I would doubt the corps have an OSHA trained inspector to inspect the props each time they are put together. As I posted on another thread,I provide expert testimony in cases involving injuries from defective playground equipment. When something like this happens, it opens up all kinds of issues. Things like: 1.Are there written instructions for the assembly ,dismantling, maintenance and repair of things like props ? This includes safety procedures and equipment. 2.Who is the individual (s) in charge of this ? 3.What are his/her qualifications? 4.Is there a log for each assembly and dismantling,including inspecting for damage and repair ? Some of this may sound like overkill for a drum corps prop. Based on my experience,its not.

You're absolutely right. I would not read too much into some of the comments here. I think some folks are getting off base. I don't think anyone here is saying BD didn't win. BD won, fair and square. Bluecoats were really close. Both were super successful shows. Although there is only one winner in each division, most people do not leave a drum corps shows thinking about losers. Typically after Finals, or any show, I think about how successful all the corps were, especially those that made top 12. But many of the corps in the 13 - 30+ range have had amazing summers. DCI is more of a positive activity for youth to perform. We are not putting 2 corps on the field at the same time and having them beat the snot out of each other like in football. There is some subjectivity to the scoring system, so there will always be debate over who won, who should have won, who you liked best. It's all good and fair, but I wouldn't take it to mean anything more than it does -- we all have favorites. From a purely competitive standpoint, I think DCI got it right. From an entertainment perspective, the fans won because there were many great shows this year.

During my many years working with the Cadets and other drum corps, I had torn my labrum, torn my ACL, Broke my big and middle toes, broke fingers and had multiple 2nd and 3rd degree burns. I even had a big azz chair fall on my head. I never thought about suing a drum corps and I'm sure they would pay my hospital fees if asked.

Each Sr corps set their own rules. Usually based on if they could fill the corps without needing minors. I started at 16 so figure how badly the warm bodies were needed lol. But for AL and VFW shows corps had to have a certain percentage of veterans in earlier years. Heard a few stories of people admitting to borrow an AL member card so they could march in State or National Championships.

DCI organizations have very littler local membership. Has to impact recruiting for all age organizations in the same geographic area.

Remember September 12, 2001? We were shocked... we were angry ... we were grieving ... we were raw. But ... We were gentler with each other ... we were tenderhearted toward each other ... we were kinder toward each other ... we were united. May we grow back into that latter space.

As Minnesota Brass puts the lid on a highly successful 2019 season – finishing second at the DCI SoundSport International Music & Food Festival in Indianapolis in August – the organization would like to thank its sponsors for the support. Read the rest of the article here. View the full article