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To: DCI Board of Directors From: Bill Hamilton, Ted Swaldo, Larry Hershman You alone hold the key to Pandora's Box and we pray for you to keep it locked! During the registration process at this year's January instructors' meeting, we received a lengthy proposal that, if adopted, would open the door for electronics. The proposal was written and presented by George Hopkins. As usual, the instructors were dazzled by the prospects of unlimited electronic amplification and voted yes. Because the rule changes were not distributed in advance, dialogue that included rebuttal was limited. We ask for your attention now. The lightly written, almost whimsical proposals use words and phrases such as "Geniuses devoting their skills to the world of marching music reaching for the sky in developing shows where the words of great Americans are magnificently amplified beyond belief..." While there can be some healthy debate about the inclusion of amplification and electronic enhancement in our activity (which frankly we are opposed to), that discussion is not the purpose of this letter. Buried deep in Mr. Hopkins' five-page proposal is perhaps the most telling acknowledgement of what this is really all about. George says: "One should plan $5,000-$10,000 to get into the game." And after you have paid your five to ten thousand-dollar entry fee, then what? We have contacted several companies, including Crystal Clear Sound and Clair Brothers (the most notable outdoor sound company on the east coast.) All agree that $10,000 buys almost nothing in professional audio. They further agree that being "on the road" with professional audio equipment requires trained personnel as well as substantial budgets for maintenance, specialized transportation, and back-up equipment. While no one could put a specific price tag on what would be a reasonably budgeted cost, a rough estimate of tens of thousands, not thousands, of dollars was the consensus to support amplification alone. More importantly they were unanimous in stating "the more money you spend, the better the sound." In addition, "in outdoor, free-air venues the costs to produce a high-quality sound are limitless." You may ask, "So what?" Well, bear in mind the person making this proposal (and probably some of his friends) already know, or have a good idea, where his electronics are coming from and who will pay for them. He knows who will pay for the audio engineer, he knows who will pay for the upgrades, he knows who will pay for the special transportation, the mixing boards, the microphones and the maintenance! Do you? Ask yourself...the last time you obtained new horns, what did you pay? What did Mr. Hopkins pay? Now take those facts and step onto the field of competition. The horns purchased by you or the horns provided to George are only as good as the people playing them. The playing field is level because the cost of horns is finite. Move now into electronics, where the cost is infinite, and the sound quality is determined by the sophistication and cost of the equipment and the proficiency of the audio engineers. Do you really want to compete in that forum? George makes another statement in his proposal, pointing out that he and a few others occupy a competitive results strata superior to your drum corps. Adopting his proposals will ensure that this never changes. If you're still considering the proposals of Mr. Hopkins, remember: HIS GAME IS PLAYED WITH A CHECKBOOK—NOT HIS OWN—BUT YOURS. For more than a decade the DCI Board of Directors has had the wisdom to defeat proposals dealing with electronics. We ask you to continue to protect the activity from unfair competition and not be fooled into opening the door to electronics. Pandora's Box is locked...let's keep it that way. Please Vote NO!

The Cadets posted on Facebook: Recently an unofficial post appeared on the Encorps social media pages announcing an alliance between The Cadets and Encorps. Despite the sharing of some resources, instruments, contacts, and best practices, there is not an official cooperative alliance or agreement between the two organizations, nor is there one planned for the near future. We wish Encorps the very best of luck as they prepare for their third season. If you are interested in more information regarding the 2020 Cadets or 2020 Encorps organizations please visit their websites at join.cadets.org or jamwithencorps.org. The Cadets apologize for any confusion or inconvenience this may have caused.

In my best Forrest Gump voice, "...so I just kept run-ning..."

So, nothing new then, eh?

Move along... nothing to see here... move along...

Perhaps everyone in this thread is unaware that Cadets have a new BOD, CEO, Director, Corps Manager etc. either that or we are just assigning the sins of the prior overlord to the organization for perpetude

Agreed, because for years we said that YEA stood for "You Eat After the Cadets"

as long as the deal doesn't become one sided towards Allentown, there's positives

yes, some people make it their means of livelihood and financial stepping stone to other means of resources.

Doing one up on Academy?

Several years ago Under Armour refused a request by DCI to co-brand some athletic wear, stating that drum corps is not an image that fits their market focus. I can imagine the jockstraps in their Board room now: "Stupid band kids. Do we really want to dilute our image with a bunch of band kids?" I've refused to buy their gear ever since, and have even rejected gifts of their stuff based on their attitude towards drum corps. I'm more than a little surprised that so many drum corps MM's and fans wear the UA logo. To me it's crap if it's too good for band kids. Nothing has made me happier than to see their stock price get slammed due to lower earnings and the realization that the "Athleisure" market they helped create is not immune to the competition of the market. To he11 with Under Armour, the stock, and the bus they rode in on, IMO. This is the prettiest picture: From a high of about $53 in October, 2015 to just over $20 today... Maybe if they include some band kids in their marketing their sales would would look better, eh? (disclaimer: this is not an endorsement, recommendation, or offer to buy or sell UA stock. The opinion expressed here is mine alone and does not represent the opinion of DCP, DCI, UAA, or my company. Past performance is not indicative of future results. Wash behind your ears and wear clean underwear, so long as it's not UA.)

Nah it’s like 15 old grumpy people- ignore them!

Well, I counted one world class corps in bib pants in the lot this summer. Hats are also not as much of a thing these days. French horns and trombones have been used extensively. Front ensembles have been moved all around. Costumes have been used to create new visual effects (ex: Colts last summer). Corps started exploring pre-recorded announcements (ex: Bluecoats). DCI and several corps started outsourcing several aspects of operations, including merch. Um, this one also happened, but in a much different way. Anyway, if you want to know what drum corps will be doing in 2028... happy to share some unsubstantiated personal opinion. 🙂

Come on I read it on the Internet... it must be true...😛

Is this a tweet? I don't do those. I can't open the link but gather from the comments that they are divesting of each other? Perhaps someone could C&P the meat... And George has the armour up defending the fort. "Don't punish the children for the sins of the father" comes to mind. So also does "They knew the snakepit they jumped into". People are human and the Cadets org needs to be extra vigilant in communicating to these old wounds.

if DCI hadn't said " you don't have to....." so ,uch less #####ing because it did make them look like hypocrites

So... would it be too much of a stretch to blame the Turks and Napoleon for amplification/electronics?

The marching band director is a former Reading Buccaneer.

Deleted, because I felt my response was too far off topic. Carry on. 🙂

And all I get is a “Hi Jimmy”.... 😄

Exactly. And you also guessed who my friend is. Not too difficult. LOL.

Have no idea what happened behind the scenes but can picture Larry saying “well the letter didn’t work, what are we going to do now”. IMO no wasting time, start working with the changes

ah

And interesting that since the electronics "Pandora's Box" was opened, the Bluecoats have arguably been the corps that has utilized electronics at a better, more professional level than various other corps... including the corps whose director at the time was leading the push for electronics to be approved. Not totally surprising, actually. A friend with ties to the Bluecoats organization has told me that once electronics was approved, the 'Coats figured, hey....if we have to live with this stuff to be competitive, let's do it better than anyone. And IMO, they pretty much have. And yes, apparently you do "have to live with this stuff" to remain competitive, despite the counter-argument that "no one says you have to add anything." Same argument was used with any-key instrumentation... "you can stay in G if you choose"... blah, blah, blah. Sure... stay in G if you want to drop from the top 12 to struggling to make semifinals. LOL.

I was talking about the $175 registration fee at Surf

Actions speak louder than words. And DCI actions (lack thereof) ignored the protests of fans.

well, this one time at band camp.....

Some sort of hat, I hope.

Very few. And I was mostly talking about a corps level. There may be people making their living off the corps, but the corps itself is fortunate to break even.

Does Goodman Stadium now have lights for an evening contest? http://www.college-sports-journal.com/its-high-time-lehigh-football-got-murray-goodman-stadium-some-lights/

Just don’t say anti-pope lol.... Been reading history of way long ago so couldn’t resist....

"Pope Dan" is the moniker I humorously gave to Dan Acheson as he agreed to hear the pushback to the A&E debate as described in an earlier post. Dan Acheson, himself, would likely agree that a literal description of his position would likely be the antithesis of that of the Pope.

Wow, project much?

... and summarily ignored. Exactly. And the whole A&E saga has a lot to do with that outlook. Recall that not only did we have the petitioning, counter-proposals and gate-stampeding protests you describe... there were sympathetic voices coming from DCI member corps. One in particular, the Bluecoats, presented their case against the change in their impassioned "Pandora's Box" open letter. Boy, did that change quick. One "no" voting corps amplified their pit in 2004, the first possible year, simply out of fear of "competing with one arm tied behind their back". As for Bluecoats, before the 2004 calendar year was over, they entered into a strategic partnership with Yamaha and began their campaign to become the king of electronics in drum corps. I am not alone here in the realization that it is not a question of "if", but merely "when". All I can do is point out, as others here have, that my support ends "when" they go there. I fully expect that at some point, their strategic partners will matter more than the fans who share my feelings.

Goodman Stadium, Lehigh University, Bethlehem, PA?? Great facility, great parking, centrally located in the Northeastern Corridor, easily accessible via Interstate highways, plenty of reasonable hotels nearby (Allentown-Bethlehem-Easton), proximity to major airports. Nearby casinos have great entertainment venues and offer an opportunity to either win back the money you've spent on travel--or an opportunity to lose your shirt! It is, however, a grass field, albeit one of the best around. For many years, the Philadelphia Eagles used this location as their preseason training site. Drainage is excellent. Total seating capacity is about 16,000 including the boxes, so about 8,000-10,000 seats are available on the "Home" side. Near-by Lafatette College, with a total seating capacity of 13,000 (8,000 home seats), has a turf field. What does DCA look for when making a "deal?"

Necro-ing my own thread. "Under Armour faces federal investigation over its accounting practices" Turns out the Feds were asking questions at about the same time I made this thread, and was digging into things happening in the company at about the same time they thumbed their nose at band kids. Causation, correlation, coincidence, Plank saving poor band kids from the evils of corporate shenanigans, or the chickens coming home to roost. Doesn't matter. The parallels to current-day drum corps are eery. "I'm sure they'll be fine..." has been said by so many, so many times.

The gymnastics are yours, actually. At this point, woodwinds represent the only remaining difference between drum corps and marching band. Add them in, and there is no "definition of drum and bugle corps" anymore.

Not an alum? No kids marching? Not a family member and no kids in band? According to many in the activity, your girlfriend doesn’t exist.

Forgive me father for I have huzgidda-da-gocked 14 times since my last confession.....

To clarify, the 'financial gains' I refer to involve the following players. Equipment manufacturers/retailers Instructors and Designers who receive compensation that can rise for a variety of reasons Anyone receiving income from managing individual corps and/or organizations like DCI Recipients of dues payments Aspiring composers Aspiring instructors/technicians Inventive souvenir merchants YES, there is a continuing desire for more income. Everywhere one looks.

The sound of a brass instrument coming through a mic is tinny and crappy. But it’s the toy of preference now because Bluecoats won with it once. Not a lot of new unexplored toys left. Hence the woodwinds discussion. And meanwhile the unique identity of drum corps was left at the curb awhile ago. Oh wait - there’s still “excellence”. Smh

karuna - You have just provided one of the most brilliant assessments of the situation many enthusiasts are facing right now. Today, it’s use of woodwinds, earlier it was amplification. Very much agree the uncontrolled introduction of electronic enhancement in DCI is a serious concern to a huge segment of the audience. Beyond limited application to assist projection of soloists, very small ensembles, and for subtle sound effects, these new ‘toys’ have the capability of dominating, even destroying, our appreciation of DCI’s incredible young talent. But, the value of your message lies in your explanation of why such potential monsters can appear. It’s all a matter of personal taste, certainly. But, egos and financial gain weigh heavily on these decisions. Now, use of woodwinds is seen as a significant threat by some. Yet another monster change that has the same likelihood of misuse. Small changes are one thing. They often improve the product. Many, including me, fear a significant addition of on-field woodwinds will lead beyond just strengthening an existing product we value, but to its complete erasure.

The (bad) attempts at amplifying drum corps are linked to a few things: 1) Loud as an effect (without loss of quality tone) takes quite a bit of skill. Many corps were infamous for BLATTING. Many corps now resort to the volume knob and avoid having to teach their horns to play loud well. So it's an "easy button". 2) Mic'ing large groups of performers simultaneously relieves the visual designer of all staging responsibilities. Since placement on the field no longer matters, you can place performers willy-nilly and have them heard (albeit with a loss in fidelity). Of course one of the most difficult things to do in visual design is getting the right players at the right places at the right time so they could be heard. So again another easy button. 3) New toy fetishism. A certain segment of the instructor population is notorious for loving new toys. 50 simultaneous wireless audio links is just the latest and greatest. These guys will bankrupt you if you let them because there's ALWAYS a newer, better, fancier toy to be found. 4) Broadway wannabee-ocity. There's a narrative among some old farts in the activity that "hey we're doing Broadway on a football field". This is of course ludicrous. Most of what makes a Broadway production a Broadway production is missing (talent, training, writing, technology, venue, lights, stage crew -- the list is endless). And yet the narrative persists and many others are "buying in" because mentally it moves them from "marching band instructors" to "broadway outdoors instructors" (which is apparently much more legitimate sounding). IMO what is most impressive about drum corps is the effect acoustic brass instruments, percussion, and colorguard in motion can create. It's a unique, expressive art form. Hopefully this is just a fad and designers will take up the challenge of creating something new WITHIN the art form instead of complaining "it's all been done" Because it certainly has NOT all been done. And if you think it has, maybe you're OLD and should RETIRE. I'm fine with amp'ing the front ensemble. And if you wanna mic a soloist or small ensemble sure put the mics on a stand on the sideline and have at it. But stop trying to mic the entire ensemble. It sounds bad. Fidelity matters.

You have it backwards. The “strong argument” has to come from the side that wants to pretend the addition of marching woodwinds doesn’t change the definition of a Drum and Bugle Corps. So far, 74 pages and counting, I can assure you no one has come close due to reality.

I've not been on here for quite a while, but I've been following the discussion on this topic. I must agree with and bring up something Fran said: DCA had it's own vibe. He's right. I remember some DCA corps would say (occasionally) "we think we're good enough to compete with the DCI corps". Were they? I don't think so... not in that decade and certainly not in this decade. In the 1980's, a DCA corps didn't look or perform like a DCI corps. There were subtle differences. I learned this fact in an interesting way, back when Star of Indiana was competing. Somebody from Steel City Ambassadors in 1987 was marching with Star the following season. At the Centerville show, I tried to say hello (and not thinking) I walked right up to him, when he was in the horn arc. I was stopped by another member who said (and I quote) "He's in rehearsal now". Her delivery was brief and I might add, mildly arrogant. I walked away and said to myself, "this isn't DCA". I was right, too. There was a difference. You may enjoy the DCI corps, but at a respectful distance. They are after all, the top of the drum corps game; the professionals. DCA on the other hand, was the weekend warriors; loads of talent that made it possible to stage a quality show, entertain the audience and do it on a somewhat smaller budget. The genie is out of the bottle and there's no going back. DCA looks more and more like DCI, every year. They still can't compete against DCI corps, but DCI is what the young folks know. In that regard, DCI has the recognized brand identity and the marketing to support it. Something was lost, in the transition to what some have called "DCI Lite". Maybe what was lost is what Fran was alluding to: The connection with the audience, the personalities and the entertainers... the casual approach to the activity. Knowing who and what we were and more importantly, why we were that way. Those days have passed. Fill the corps ranks with young folks, design shows that appeal to them, give them the "DCI lite" experience for far less money and hope they stick around long enough to carry DCA on their shoulders. Perhaps the most telling wake up call I faced was this: There are members of our local DCA corps who weren't born when I won a DCA championship in 1996. The folks I marched with can be found in three places, during finals weekend: The alumni corps, the stands or the judging panel. Those few hearty souls that may be found in the ranks of a competing corps, deserve an award (or free chiropractor services) one or the other. I don't know if DCA will be around in five years. I don't know what needs to be done (beyond a strong marketing effort), to increase attendance. All I know is if people aren't buying your product at the volume you need to see in order to grow your business, you ought to take a closer look at what you're trying to sell.

If you look at the I and E schedule, or happen to be in Indy when awards are given, you can see that many of the young instrumentalists are woodwind players, and they are either performing on brass or percussion instruments in DCI, so many already know how to play more than one instrument proficiently. Adam Vinatieri loved soccer, and as a punter his soccer skills are evident, but he wanted to play football. Should his high school coaches changed the rules and allowed him to use a soccer ball when he played instead of a football? If a flute player who also plays trumpet and makes the cut is not allowed to march because he/she plays the flute, that’s discrimination. If the same flute player cannot play an instrument used in drum corps so cannot march, that is not discrimination.

Seems to me, every new music producer, that is not a brass instrument, comes at the expense of playing time by the brass. At least to some extent, from an entire (new instrument) ensemble segment to just a featured solo. BIG BRASS IMPACT (a crowd pleaser every time) becomes less likely. I want BIG BRASS to remain the “Star of the Show,” Center Stage attraction. Yes, percussion at this level is also spectacular ! 🤭

" And the sultan's elite bands were known as the janissaries. " And, as the story goes, one of these bands was sent by the Turks as a gift to Napoleon, who loved pageantry, and thus began the tradition of military marching bands in Europe, and eventually in the good ol' US of A. Mark time, hut!

Well reading that is two minutes of my life I will never get back.

When dudes treat women like objects for hundreds of years, your being offended at their putting women at the forefront of the activity is now secondary.