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Not concerned about the public reaction? They assigned the proposal to an unaffiliated BoD person. They submitted it, in defiance of DCI rules, without a sponsoring signature. They delayed public release of the rule change proposals until the last minute. They withheld the vote tally, only for that one proposal, in an unprecedented act of secrecy. DCI has done everything it could to conceal the identities of corps directors who are proponents. Obviously, that was done because they were concerned about public reaction. No one wants to be the one who loses donors to other corps over this.

As each of you travel back home, I want to express my gratitude for your restraint, and decision not to approve the latest proposal to include marching woodwinds at this time. As I see it, Drum Corps International has seen too many fundamental changes, too fast. Recent changes to amplification, movement, uniforms, set pieces, and judging have placed more than enough on your plate for the time being. Add in concerns over funding, housing, performance rights, broadcast quality and reach, etc. Frankly, each of these items still need work. Particularly the amplification matter ! Better to fine tune/conquer matters already in hand. Now is a time for focus, stability, and calm. Much appreciated.

No, the answer to everything is 42. 😎

There were, reportedly, only a handful of directors who stood up and expressed support for the proposal - the majority of those who spoke about it were not in favor, and for a variety of reasons, from the financial and practical to the aesthetic. Even in secret ballot, it would seem likely the voting wasn't close.

Not every open class corps wants to be world class; the move upward comes with a whole new set of fiscal responsibilities, board responsibilities, increased touring logistics, etc. If all-instrument were passed for open class only, how would that enable open class corps to become wold class? Wouldn't the dependence on woodwind bodies hinder their ability to move into the division which doesn't allow them? Most corps are, in fact, having ensemble in the rain. Corps are only required to have policies submitted to DCI for lightning and other hazardous weather, but rain itself is not a hazard, even to the point of downpour. Even as recently as 2019, corps have been rehearsing in the rain. The pit does what it's always done--they set up canopies and/or cover their equipment with tarps depending on how bad the rain is, but moving indoors is only an ultimate last resort ever, even for them. Brass and drumlines are expected to throw on their raincoats and continue moving and playing through heavy rain. Woodwinds do not have the pit option of staying stationary under canopies/tarps if they are integrated into the drill, and they do not have the option of continuing to play like the other mobile membership do.

Hmmmmm (just dropping by to say Hi!) So why not add more brass, percussion and guard? 100 brass, 60 guard and 45 percussion? Who needs amplification then? Of course you really should spend more on judging musicianship and not as much on visual and guard! Wouldn't that add more revenue? I, for one, would rather see music being the focus and visuals secondary!

It would be nicer if anything that failed to pass could not be brought up again for 5 years!

Actually, many OC corps *are* happy to remain outside of World Class, to *not* have to raise million dollar budgets and arrange for 50-day tours. And I don't know how much experience you have with OC, we really *do* love drum corps down there, and we like being DCI groups and doing generally DCI-type things without having to become a World Class designer's avant-garde testbed. I love the fact in your posts that you challenge everyone's assumptions; I really do. Sometimes it's good to take a step back and say "why do we do what we do?" I literally have a job doing that, BTW. But sometimes, we do things because they *are* the best practice for the situation. Mike

Pretty sure it’s not at all unusual for proposals to be passed by the instructors caucus but not by the directors. I think this has happened many times over the years.

She did. Megxit is a go!

We need to examine why a name change would be a good idea. If it is meant to commemorate all that drum corps has become, that could be debated. If the name change is necessary because some believe drum corps is no longer drum corps because g bugles are no longer used, honor guards are no longer part of a show, amplification is a reality, props are overwhelming, costumes rather than uniforms are worn, or whatever change is disliked, then throwing away a recognized brand name is foolish. DCI will soon be fifty years old. My guess would be that in 2021 when the fiftieth title is awarded, it will be the beginning of a celebration that will conclude in 2022 when the fiftieth anniversary takes place. One of my favorite scenes from all the DVD’s and BluRays I own is the end of Garfield’s show in 1984. The young people who marched who are in my age range today, look totally exhausted and very proud. My guess is that Anaheim Kingsmen felt that way in 1972, Blue Devils probably felt that way last summer. The tradition of pride and excellence alone is enough for me to not change the name.

Or they're sneaking snivelling cowards!

Having a couple days to think about it, I am actually not all that surprised by the final directors' vote on this. I have probably a couple hundred FB friends who are currently marching or have aged out very recently...in the past 2 or 3 years. While I haven't engaged in any of the discussions online, I have read a lot...particularly this past week. Surprisingly, there seemed to be a consensus (at least among these members) that there is no need to add woodwinds to DCI. As one mellophone player out it, "that's what we have college band for." Something I hadn't thought of but was being discussed by the members: there was a time when DCI attracted woodwind players who switched to brass for the summer. Now however, the competition to get a spot is so fierce that we are seeing almost exclusively brass players auditioning. It seems as though the brass players and drummers are fine just the way it is. The feeling seems to be that woodwind and string instrument players have their opportunities through collegiate wind ensembles and the like. While there still could be a change in the future, at least it looks like the directors bought us some more time.

And I’m hoping you do the same in 2022

i'd rather walk on my lips than watch either

No, not really. This is not how it works - the voting parties are not sequestered from each other. There's lots of time when all of the parties are at the coffee tables and break rooms at the same time; there's no effort that I've ever seen to keep them apart. Sure, there's contact, and maybe even coordination, between instructors and their directors, and there may also be coordination between the directors and his/her BoD. But I think it's incorrect to think that this process was/is that kind of process. You describe it as combative between instructors and directors, designers vs. management. It's not that way. Sure, both constituents can agree to promote or oppose an issue, but this process seems more designed to be inclusive and make sure that all education partners are involved in the education and instructions issues. DCI has worked hard - and it's obvious to me - to end the "Cesar and his Senate"- type of rules proposals and decision-making for the activity. I see them being very proactive to clarify and operate as the "assembly of associated interests" that DCI's founders envisioned. To my eye, the entire "instructor's caucus" and both its inclusion and separation from the other interests in the decision room is evidence that unilateral decision-making is gone. That Kathy Black vetted approval to introduce a rule change "for the entire activity" is a clear demonstration of DCI's attempt to reduce the conflict of interest, perceived or actual, that can come along with rules proposals made by individual directors. Those of us around for a while can remember clear examples of where the personality (and his potential conflicts) sucked all of the oxygen out of the decision room. When I think of a board meeting led by GH and some (cowering) supporters I see verbal brow-beating, shutting off of discussion, pressured votes, bad bargaining, and bad faith. Last week, I envisioned Kathy Black out in the hallway taking the heat and the directors all together in a room calmly debating the subject without any overhang of bludgeoning pressure or threats of mistreatment for dissenters, let along dare anyone disagree. My hunch is that one of the reasons the issue was clearly treated can be attributed to there being no presenting "strong personalities" with a conflicted vested interest in the room. I'm thankful that there's been a willingness to have changes introduced by and for the activity as a whole instead of, perceptively, for an introducing-few.

Wait, what did I just agree to? 😲

Why would a visual designer care one way or another? Ok, let's stipulate to your example: in that case, Leon would be free to find another corps next time his LOA or contract is up (even though the other corps would ALSO be sans saxophones) and Boston would find someone to replace him. Everyone would be happy! ...except for those who were really looking forward to someone doing "A Kenny G Portrait" in 2021. They're probably not happy.😎

Actually, I agree with you a bit on the future being indoors, but I think we're talking decades, not years, and it will be a summer circuit - not WGI - so independent groups don't have to compete with scholastic units. That said, Soundsport isn't quite what you think it is. Have you actually watched any of them? It's way more decentralized by design, and the groups that compete at DCI events *do* get televised, same as the DCI groups attending. I can tell you the name of every one in Texas, if you cared to hear it, but that's not really the point. Again, decentralization. You don't have to go to Indy to still have a good experience, and you don't have to do it the "DCI Way" to provide a good season for members. And the division has done a great job of expanding awareness internationally as well as domestically weeding out orgs that aren't yet ready (or just don't care) to apply for Open Class. Mike

So long, and thanks for all the fish.

Drum corps does not take place in a vacuum. Instructors, going back, have always used the instructor caucus to advance their own best interests. And corps management has always used the BoD to advance theirs. Sometimes they don't align, and that's ok. Everyone still generally gets along. It's not a secret that it's worked this way for literally decades. Mike

That will a PERFECT time for WW to be approved!!!

As much as I favor the approval of WW, I don't agree with that. Unless the staffs and admins of a corps were in agreement in advance and the directors bailed on them with the final vote, I see nothing wrong with differing votes. I think that the staffs voted to pass A&E many times prior to the directors approved them. Staffs want the creative tools; admins look at the books and other items non-creative.

Yes. We just learned they have a whole committee - sorry, a "task force" for seeking new revenue sources. Why is there no task force for controlling costs?

Re All-instruments: At the end of the day, I wasn't persuaded by the half-baked evidence for revenue. I was put off by the proposal's pretensions to justifications other than revenue. Ms. Black's revenue-forward interview only underscored the dissonance. At the same time, I read several arguments that dinos who might have taken their money and gone home would not have moved the needle much on the cash-flow statements of any individual corps. I think that's probably correct. Every corps has a few benefactors with deep pockets. But drum-corps finances is a game of multipliers, not unicorns. Few corps have the resources to simply stand up an entirely new type of touring ensemble that includes WWs, let alone provide such a new ensemble with a circuit of competitions against other similar ensembles. Yet I would welcome the creation of a "major leagues" for marching bands as marching bands. Let a thousand flowers bloom. . . . But now that DCI's revenue-creation task force has been sent back to the drawing board, I would recommend they consider the expense side of the sheet to improve the finances of member corps. Limits are a creative force -- ask any 6 year-old flying to the moon in a cardboard box. For a long while now, maximalism has been the only method rewarded competitively, on the field and in the audition wars. Perhaps a little minimalism would be both a welcome change on the field, among students -- and on the bottom line. Pour more of the available resources into intelligent design and arrangement. More communication and execution, less wow factor. Better transitions within the program, for example, rather than better sound effects. Better writing, and less focus on the backdrop. BK in 2019 gave us a taste of what that could be -- not in their head-spacey kind of mood necessarily, but in their minimalist approach to the stage. They put their focus on the writing and the cohesiveness of their program. It carried them a long way. DCI remains afflicted by a lot of chopped-up, bolted-together programming. That is an avenue for advance and innovation and excellence that isn't cheap, but could be pursued without having to also continue the arms-race side of DCI. Take the Cadets of 2019, lose the staircases and give that boatload of talent a well-built program on a spare canvas, and they would have been 6th place or higher. Perhaps we can leave the Age of Cheap Theatrical Tricks behind, and enter a new age of Smart Adaptation to Limits.

I would not be so quick to assume just about any of those. Key point - instructors not only are allowed, but expected to vote differently from corps directors. The two caucuses are evaluating different aspects. For example, the financial impact is clearly part of the corps director purview, but not that of the instructor.

You keep saying this, but I can tell you firsthand that's not the general attitude in OC. Mike

Gar’s will be done, on earth as it is on DCP.

Huh. This didn't age well.

cixelsyd - always enjoy your astute opinions!

Currently, DCI drum corps are allowed to use brass, percussion, and electronic instruments. They can also amplify all of the above. And since the synthesizer is an electronic instrument, they can produce any sound artificially via sampling. Since ordinary, non-electronic string instruments and woodwinds are not in that list above, they cannot be used in DCI field competition. That is where the rule change would have altered things. It needs to be noted here that the DCI SoundSport division has different rules. Any instruments can be used there.

I'll agree - they did look & fit incredibly well, though not without some known problems. The helmets caused issues all season long. I suspect it was a combination of things that led to the change, which can happen, but in the end we trust corps leadership & have no doubt the right decisions are being made for the right reasons! Thanks to all for all you do!

AMEN!!! Thank you, Directors!!! (btw, after this NEAR DEATH EXPERIENCE amplification, mega pits, trombones, props, over production, emoting, et. all. don't seem so bad anymore)

I would be even happier if a rule was put into place to forever ban them and preserve the basic core activity, but I’m ecstatic none the less. Thank you directors. P.S. Woodwinds can always create a series with no brass to make those brass players jealous.

Then you know how we feel. Marching band isn't full-blown brass and percussion using the entire dynamic range as drum corps is. It just isn't the same.

I’m a nobody around here, but I’ve only been a DCI observer since I saw the 1989 DCI finals on PBS when I was a freshman in high school. I never had the opportunity to march for anyone, but I married a 90s DCI alum so we’re as a family in love with the activity! I’ve also stalked these forums for years, but I’m not much of a commenter as I had personally no official ties to the activity. Until recently! Anyway, my son is a Madison Scout this year for his very first drum corps performing experience. 💚🤍⚜️ We as a family are so excited by the energy this program has surrounding it this year! Both camps my son has attended has lit a fire under him that I’ve never seen. His HS experience has been wonderful, but the acceptance and kinship the Scouts has is already obvious. Even with the negatives coming into this season, the kids are on fire with passion and I’m so excited to be a part of the Scouts family! (Just some positive words for an obviously stressful weekend in DCI)

We may have different opinions about the woodwind question, but if it has passed, 2021 would have been the perfect first year. Unless I win the lottery or publish the great American novel or find out I have a rich relative who died and left me a fortune, my sisters want a family trip to Ireland 🇮🇪 next summer, so most likely I will not be in Indy in 2021. I’ll be local shows only. So if it had been approved, I would have time to ease into it when I’m back in Indy in 2022!

There is another option that I think is EDIT: might be realistic. If a seven corps show taxes the housing facilities, have two four-corps shows on different nights across a state or region. Some will say that total attendance will be affected in a good or bad way, but it is a solution providing DCI can find housing sites at all. Housing and show sites, and the tour logistics, will continue to be the single largest restraint to the growth of the activity. I also think it has the biggest potential to kill the activity entirely.

I thank all of the directors for making the decision they thought best for their corps and DCI. It is not what I hoped, but they have the responsibility to make the call they think appropriate.

I would only thank those who voted it down. Anyone got the vote results yet?

Have judges and instructors not realized how uneven the listening experience has been over the past 15 years? And particularly over the past 10 years since synthesizers were permitted? Or has DCI just thought it was too challenging logistically to seat judges elsewhere? Can you imagine how different scores might have been if music and G.E. judges were sitting outside of the very narrow musical sweet spot that too many corps were aiming for? There have been so many shows in that time where my seat in the 35-40 yard line was blasted by some corps' goo drowning out their brass.

I will contnue to post my opinions on this here message board.

I think the general consensus from current marching members (granted that's only 5 people this coming season) was that DCI is only DCI sans-woodwinds. I still feel like it's the same as it was in the 80's when I marched, which is to say "If you want to march DCI, pick up an instrument that's part of the existing ensemble and put in the work to learn it." I don't feel like that's a prejudice. Things have rules that make up the framework of the activity. If you play american soccer, you don't use your hands (unless you're the goalie.) If you want to use your hands, choose a different sport or gain the skills necessary to compete within the context of the activity. I would like to think that most kids who would have the skills to march at the DCI level would be able to pick up a new instrument fairly quickly and work their way up into a corps. The kids now seem to have pretty high skill sets already. Just my opinion though.

My kid is of DCI age and will be marching this summer. The friend circle, which includes both brass and woodwinds, was opposed to adding woodwinds. In fact, the woodwind players were more gung ho about learning a brass instrument to audition than just adding their own primary instrument.

Should be very interesting .... let’s see what the news will be later today.... be on the lookout

I’m a Bach 3C guy, so, meh.

I think they can amend proposals. But I could be wrong. Just let me be clear: I’m not interested in seeing a flying wedge of clarinets.

Yeah well, I was EVERYONE and EBBUB on RAMD.

Whenever Mr. Ream's mortgage company approves my loan and the Brinks' trucks cart in the gold from Ft. Knox. It may be awhile since I have no first-born to offer as surety.