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70 to 80 talented, well-trained brass players in a given top DCI corps. No need for sideline-microphone "volume enhancement." My opinion, at least. Worth less than two cents, adjusted for inflation. LOL

"Gets all moist" and "deeply concerned about hearing damage for everyone" are your editorial words. Can't speak for anyone else here... but I'm fine with acoustic loud. Including B-flat loud. Carolina Crown in 2009 and 2013 in particular, Cadets in 2007... those horn lines pinned me to the wall. Among other examples of the any-key era. But I'm not a fan of "artificial" loud. Scrap the sideline microphones... let those young performers play.

Trust me it was hard enough not to #### my pants with what I’ve heard and confirmed from multiple places. I don’t need all of you ####### your pants too

I’m really tired of mic soloist- it’s like non stop on some of the programs now with ensemble playing at 6 min. It’s a snooze fest

I don't see where the Cavs are not doing the right thing. Ridiculous to suggest they they are in the wrong. They have always been, and continue to be a male organization. The same was true of MS. Where was all this righteous rumbling when all girl corps were present? If the intent of MS inclusion was to distract, it worked magnificently.

It’s easy enough to judge if players are marching around with mics attaches to their bells. It’s also easy enough to ban certain types of field level mics that are designed to pickup sound from sources further away.

What about not releasing recaps to the unwashed rabble? That lasted one year.

"Random Drawing Finals Positions".

sadly it's probably going to take threat of legal action for hearing loss to force change

where was the woke crowd when Crossmen went all female with their guard last year?

Thinking of someone in the stands.. “WOW... oh wait that was the amps being turned to 11”... (because 11 is a bigger number than 10 lol)

I bought a couple of pairs of earasers the other day.

More corps equals more MMs equals more family/friends. More shows equals more access in more places for more family/friends/fans to spend more money. We need more corps to have more shows. Anything else is just smoke and mirrors to the income statement (like recently quoting revenue while leaving out attendance so the fact that revenue is up ONLY because of ticket price increases is less obvious, and the fact that attendance is down is hidden completely (except to those who ask)).

Did not know the highlighted part...Up to 3 obviously isn't enough, given the number of times MANY corps can't get the sound right... 🙄 They could, you know, NOT permit these "in the stands" folks to make any "on the go" adjustments - use one of their set up minutes to do a sound check then shut them down. While we're at it (and this argument has been made by several on here), during the show, an "of marching age" member should be the one running the field board... Also an advocate of disallowing shotgun mics and large-scale individual micing (no, don't have a top limit in mind)...

So cost savings matter to you. I have seen that in more than one of your ideas. (We have common ground!) But to move forward, the DCI collective will need to be convinced that cost matters. Right now, they only seem to care about revenue. Their strategic plan has multiple directives addressing revenue, and a whole task force created just to pursue revenue ideas. But there is no Cost Control Task Force, and there are not even any strategic plan items focused on the cost side of the equation. This will take some time and persuasion.

wait WHAT? There's no reason to amplify the full ensemble and shotgun mics are pretty easy to see! This sounds like someone's shoveling some very deep manure!

He's right about if they were top 12 this would be a non-starter. Basing your conclusions on the exceptions in the past is like saying everyone has 3 fingers and a thumb because someone somewhere was born with them. I mean seriously, if you look back at ALL the bad show design decisions the last few years you should be asking WTF are they smoking to think that would be good. There is absolutely no way you can blame the talent of the corps on what they were given to compete with. Talent is So overrated as to almost be a non starter if you know how to teach that is. I hope the best for them but I have like almost NO optimism for them pulling out of this spiral. I've never seen a corps try to run away from itself and it's amazing history, temet nosce

Expenses. Its a big topic on this board and many say that DCI costs are spiraling out of control. So I started to look at what is driving cost up through the roof. I started to look at the DCI's 990 to look at what their actual costs and expenses are. Pulling up their 2018 990 here ( https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/362754480/201902739349300235/full ) you can find that in 2018 DCI spent $6,550,694 on Show Expenses (cost of renting facilities) Looking at their calendar they put on 108 shows in 2018 between WC, OC and Soundsport shows. If you average that out, they Spent $60,654 per show for the DCI tour. That's an insane amount of money for a Non-profit organization to put out to put on these shows. And that leads me to think what Can DCI do to bring this crazy amount of Cost down? And the one idea that keeps coming through my head is, the football Field. We are married to a football field as our performance venue and this marriage is becoming so expensive it is killing the organization from within. When if you look at most shows, Corps Rarely go outside of the 15 yard lines and rarely spend much time behind the back hash. Could DCI survive in a smaller venue? Could DCI perform inside the NBA/ NHL Arenas instead of a football field? Looking at the Size of NHL Rink. The regulation size is 200 x 85, But most NBA/NHL Size arenas can easily move the back and side bleachers and easily reach a common space of 210 x 105 Feet. Or what you would know as 15 to 15 and Front Sideline to Back Hash. Now you might ask what does an average Arena Cost to rent for a day? http://rockandrollguru.blogspot.com/2011/03/price-of-concert-breaking-down-where.html $20,000 a Night. If in 2018 DCI rented arenas instead of Football Stadiums the expenses for Show Expenses would shrink to: $2,160,000, a reduction of $4,390,694. Even if you inflate the $20,000 Cost by 50% $30,000 to cover for Security, event staff, Logistics etc.., You would have expenses at $3,240,000. A Reduction of $3,310,694.00. For comparison, Looking at WGI's 990; (https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/311421760/201813129349300016/full) WGI spent $1,635,975 in 2018 on Event Expenses. They put on 77 events some are duplicated so you can 70 events in 2018 ( For comparison WGI is putting on 64 events in 2020) Their average expense was $23,371.07 per event. If you're thinking, Well they cant get as many people in an arena as they can in a Football stadium, you'd be right, If you where to sell one side of the arena as you did in a football stadium most arenas have a capacity of 12,202 for 180° shows https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Airlines_Arena Some are larger, Some are smaller. While the smaller shows are hosted in High School stadiums. The largest HS Stadiums in the country https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/the-largest-high-school-stadiums-in-the-us.html have a seating capacity of 20,000+ but you can only sell one side. But DCI is not in these large stadiums often so you could argue that most of the early season shows happen in locations where the seating capacity is around 5,000 people. So while the maximum number of people that could attend an event would be reduced to about 12,000 the average capacity will be increased to somewhere around 10,000 people for event. There is also the possibility for cities that normally have larger stadiums to have 2 shows one Saturday and Sunday to make sure that everyone wants to see the shows get to see the shows. Reducing Fuel cost and increasing member health as they get to get some serious floor time by going back to the same school. Funny enough that these large Regional NFL Stadiums are the ones that could be pointed too as having the largest impact on these expenses. They also offer performance audiences close to 20,000 people. So the average attendance size goes up. Meanwhile DCI because of the stacked nature of Arenas has more space on the 50, And can increase the amount of "VIP" or high cost tickets. Most of these arenas also have Suites, You can sell suites and club level tickets for a premium something that simply doesnt exist in the average Football Stadium. The next positive, NO WEATHER! No Rain Delays, No 98 Degree heat in Texas after Sundown. 65 Degrees A/C with a cold Beer in hand and with the corps so close you can reach out and touch them. And then the last component. For the individual Corps. While you can with ease field 154 members on a field of this size, you might start to feel cramped. For the corps it might improve the aesthetic to reduce the size for the corps to 100 members. You remove one Bus you remove 54 mouths to feed, and on down and continue the corps budget will shrink. You will still pay the same amount of money to see Blue Devils regardless if they have 154 members or if they have 100 members. With the Cost going down, More corps have an opportunity to compete and because of decreased member size more talent is distributed to other corps, and the overall talent goes up. So I ask knowing all of this, Is the Football Field and being outdoors essential to your enjoyment of Drum corps? If losing the Football Field meant that the activity not only survives but flourishes would you willingly waive goodbye to the Football Field? In my mind I already have.

Wait...really? I should do a rewatch.

https://ascendperformingarts.org/helwerda-named-bkdbc-director/

Did they come in a brightly neon colored box? Cause the packaging should be at least as loud as the commercials.

go back even a little further, Vicki Drummond Blue Rock. Late 60s

Actually, there was. The Scouts administration/BOD decided to make this change. They are the ones who matter most.

So does YEA still operate The Cadets?

The one-year wonder.

I know.... Ventures were a great corps - so many young men missed out on marching with a great corps back in the 80s -- I guess they all went to Allegiance Elite

With all due respect you are an oldie but your lineage is more to band than Drum & Bugle corps. IMHO too much is made of DCI designers than to performers. Good luck to them all in finding the pot of gold. I applaud Garfield to his apparent knock on Hopkins - to DCI this will be my last purchase of finals ( if there is one ) and wish all of you success in the future !

I had steroid shots THRU my left ear drum because my ear canal felt closed up. Didn’t work and still have hearing loss in some frequencies. My NEW ear doc at Hershey Med/Penn State gave me a wtf look and asked why the shots. She checked and nothing looks wrong. She thinks I have something that it just feels swollen. Plus the hearing aid I got at the previous doctor is a POS and was never properly fitted. Getting to hate private practice docs and loving training hospitals (Hershey Med/Johns Hopkins) more and more

Ok, I'll rephrase - there are no calls from anyone who actually matters for Cavaliers to change, and there's no indication from anyone I know there they've seriously considered the question.

As long as the corps agree to not smuggle their directors out of the country in a Contrabass case...they might even get additional reeds thrown into the deal.

Absolutely, and that's why A/I makes sense to me ONLY if they don't increase the member limit. I know you disagree, but that act is, at least, the beginning of creating the bodies needed to start more corps. The stuff I'm hearing leads me to believe that the notion of "Activity First" is as high as it's ever been. That cuts don't now go "down-class" to march after being cut, energy put towards promoting the notion that making a dream corps, except in extraordinary cases, begins down class in hopes of moving up. Interestingly, that also forces those orgs to improve themselves to induce that "corps-hopper" to stay with his/her "first corps" because they love it even if they're not assured a ring or even an appearance on Saturday night. If DCI's PRIMARY mission is an event-planner, then the member corps' PRIMARY mission is to keep those cut kids in the activity, marching, and involved. The corps have not done a good job of that to my eye even as the member experience "down-corps" is at the highest it's ever been to my eye.

Now you are speaking my language. Now you are speaking their language. Oh, if only people piloting the DCI strategic plan could make the same connection you just did.

Fabulous idea except you have to kick the kids out of their sandbox. They're not going to like that, especially if they have to go back to being creative with Tonka trucks instead of electronic wizardry, light shows, props, and A&E. Problem is, they own the sandbox.

I like where you people are going on this cost savings discussion. Rental fees for professional venues are too high (LOS, Alamo Dome etc.). Time to go back to Whitewater. It’s not like it’s televised anymore. And the threat of weather might tamper things down in the electronics toys area too.

How did Brass Theater do on tour? I saw them in Buffalo and loved it!

Louder and louder. OSHA will shut this #### down. Sound crews practice for Lucas Oil Field all summer and don't care how overpoweringly loud and crappy the sound gear sounds at high school football stadiums.

A very good listen

Some things are meant to be done on a field. That’s why Arena Football went belly-up. Get rid of the props, stop changing uniforms every year, cut down on the number of instructors (would anyone notice?), hire “drill writers” instead of “show designers”, and do crowd pleasing as opposed to designer pleasing shows. Changing venues and quadrupling down on all the decorations is not the answer.

well that makes you different (and special/helpful) you want the corps to succeed and you wait for announcements - you don't spew rumors true and/or untrue

I mean, I stopped financially supporting the Cadets for several years once it became clear he was psychologically abusive with the staff. The financial mismanagement he left the corps with has become more and more obvious after his removal. It is very obvious that he was not capable of building a long term self sustaining non-profit. He was obviously able to tap the alumni base of the corps to build winning staffs for a while, but that ultimately wasn't sustainable either.

Actually I want the corps to very much succeed but I’m hearing the same things. Just waiting to see if any formal announcement is made

This entire thread has devolved into an Abbott and Costello routine.

question is, do they have the makings of a varsity athlete? Gimme a V Gimme an A Gimme an R Gimme an S Gimme an I Gimme a T Gimme a Y What does it spell? Youth Education in the Arts!

Everything that came after this opening paragraph needs to be rethought after you calculate in to your analysis the fact that you conflated "Show Expenses" to be the "cost of renting facilities". That's not correct. The big elephant included in that total of about $6.55mm is the cost of the corps. Memory fades with age but, IIRC, something along the lines of $2.5mm to $3mm of DCI's revenue gets paid out to drum corps as "performance fees" (called all manner of things in the actual DCI record-keeping, I suspect). You can cut costs on stadium facilities (good luck) but, to cut that $3mm paid out to corps, the corps voting membership has to agree to cut their own pay. GOOD LUCK! I'd bet they pound the crap out of that expense statement before they agree to cut their own pay. You'll have those cost no matter where they play. In fact, it's true that the ED's job is to negotiate the very best deal with the stadiums, et al, for the strict benefit of the member corps, not for the benefit (currently) of DCI's income statement. What they save in negotiation is, and should be, paid out the to corps. (This is a whole-other discussion!) Still, after correcting your numbers down to around $35,000 to rent an "average" stadium, that also makes sense. No, N.E. Brigand, it doesn't cost $35m to rent an average high school stadium but it also costs a whole lot more than $35m to rent your average professional domed football stadium, too. Just do some simple deductive thought using, say $75m to rent Alamo (I truly have no clue) and logically crank that up to, say $125m PER DAY to rent LOS (again, I have NO idea) and you can easily see that four very expensive regional stadiums can lower significantly the average cost per high school stadium. Do HS facilities "cost" $20m to $25m to host drum corps? Yep, you bet. And the big, new fancy Texas stadiums are probably much more. Now, I very much appreciate your thought process and I'll anticipate following your rationale after you've corrected your thoughts with these corrections. This issue stumped me and a bunch of others for a day or so in a 990 discussion years ago until I discovered that "paying" the drum corps is an expense on DCI's income statement. Show revenue is income, paying for corps and paying for stadiums (and all the rest) show up as expenses. If you scan all of the expense lines, you'll not find any entry line item that identifies "corps pay" or any such thing on the 990. It's buried in "Show Expense". The only thing I see in the '18 990 that could be dubious is the ubiquitous "all other expenses" category that collected just under $1mm. OK, that's not huge but it is a little under 10% of their expenses. "Other Expenses" is always for things one deliberately wants to hide or, more likely, "When There's No Place Else To Put Something" -- on the 990 form. That DOESN'T mean that they've not identified those expenses, it's that there's no place on the 990 filing to report them. You know, like strip clubs, expensive steak houses, and private jets to San Antonio. (I'm KIDDING!!) I think it's illustrative to look at the numbers in comparison to others. For example, how has that number ("corps pay") changed across 990s?

Let’s see by June 1. I heard that’s the indicator to the payment plan!

#### business logic in a drum corps forum

Why would they have been suspended? What else happened?

Curious how many people who now say things like this were saying them during that person's tenure. Also curious if anyone now believes that statement exaggerates the situation during that time. I mean, it's pretty impressive to mismanage a corps to ten championships.

I am 100% convinced (not 99%) that COTC was the beginning of the end for G. Hopkins. The Cadet organization was utterly embarrassing. How much more interesting would Bloo vs Blue been?

I won't probably watch this show but I have a great respect for their activity...SAFETY is an issue in their activity as it is in DCI..They've eliminated moves deemed too risky for the performers because of injuries..DCI, with the prop revolution/evolution would do well to also consider "how much is too much?'...IMHO..peace