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I completely disagree with you. The trend of costumes portraying a theme and/or story is IMO a colossal failure and completely unnecessary. Musical arrangements, visual drill design, and auxiliary will suffice. Props are not going to prop up a poorly designed program, no more than silly mice costumes. Designers need to consider the venue. Smaller venues like a gymnasium work better for costuming - WGI. What we learned this season is that larger venues require more uniformity for greater visual impact. Madison, Phantom, Cavaliers, Cadets and even Bluecoats uniform styles/colors created both simplicity and clarity with respect to marching design and overall visual effect. IMO less clutter more uniformity!

Every corps has those "fanboys/girls". Yes some worse than others. I have also witnessed some isolated events by members of a particular corps in a parking lot when i attended a show in SoCal back in 2007. But i don't/didn't hold the entire organization accountable for all of eternity (not accusing you of that). To this day when that corps takes the field, i cheer just as loud for them as i do any other corps performing that night. Every corps, sports team, fanbase etc, has jerks. It just seems like when one is successful and has found a winning formula to win consistently, and we can't find any dirt or skeletons in the closet, we start latching on to any little thing to bring them down and minimize their success (speaking in general, not directly at you). That's why as a BD fan, I try my best to always be respectful, friendly, and polite, ESPECIALLY on this forum. Us BD fans have to hold ourselves and each other to high standard, cause I know there are some posters (NOT ALL) wanting and waiting to pounce on anything negative about BD. And if they can't or don't have the guts to attack the corps directly, they will come after the fanbase and latch on to any little thing we say.

Well said CG

Here's the thing. You join a thread without watching the material in the OP. THEN, you get insulted by me calling you out for not even taking the time to listen to this guy. You feeling insulted and accuse me of thinking you are "horrible". You feeling insulted speaks volumes as well. To be brief and frank, this is kind of all on you.

So this past season competing corps seemed to go back to more traditional uniforms. Most likely to curb expenses and it was a shortened season. While this was appealing to the older generation I do not expect that to be the norm going forward . Who is your favorite corps and what do you expect their uniforms to be like or what would you like to see in 2022? I think Phantom Regiment has to somehow modernize while keeping ties to the past. The helmet is iconic but how to work it in? I liked the old style uniforms of the Madison Scouts, really nostalgic, but note sure that it would work in today's environment. Thoughts?

Vanguard did this in 2008. Watch from 9:50 onward. Has anyone ever done this again? I still don't understand how this was achieved and I know it's been done on many entertainment shows. That being said, it seems to have only been done one year unless I am wrong. Also, Pete Weber, please come back.

In 85 I was with another corps and I was amazed at the SCV show . I couldn't believe they were kids just like us. I still think that was one of the best shows I had ever seen. Maybe it was just seeing only parts of it live. Later I became friends with some people in that SCV corps . I think it is on my profile as my favorite show.

Yes, other corps have changed costumes and had to either leave what they took off on the field or hide it from view. We don't see what Vanguard's effort in '85 took to accomplish because of the tunnel but there have been stories posted on here of how long it took to get it right and when timing was off and corps members didn't quite get their green pants off in time. Vanguard's 2008 costume change is different. In an instant, a brown skirt and colorful top becomes a blue dress with nothing left on the field. Look at the two lines of guard meeting on the 50 yard line at the 10:00 mark. This is similar to these effects like the following we've seen on entertainment shows.

I’m not a big fan of costuming but I have to say I loved Spirit’s look. I may be off but I interpreted it as a ghost, spirit, haint or whatever otherworldly creature might be caught in a bottle tree. It was out there and it worked for me. (It also reminded a little bit of Bumble the abominable snowman from Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer. Lolol)

The guard in the Turandot show just before Nessus Dorma.

sadly since the guy that bought them, hired a rule #1 breaker and then tried to pay to have it cleansed from the internet, then also said some offensive political statements online was ousted, it's been a merry go round of odd decisions, departures, rumors that aren't the kind you want circulating, and offending alumni in many fashions.

or in my case, avoid enclosed stadiums

Why.......YES, please! Better than shirtless dudes in spandex.

The answer to the question " has anyone did a quick uniform change on the field like 2008 Santa Clara Vanguard " is..... yes. The 1985 Santa Clara Vanguard .

The drill was so mesmerizing, I forgot all about the costume change and had to rewind/watch again.

I miss drill.

Smoke, mirrors, and velcro. Don’t forget the tunnel in their 1985 show.

I believe thats true. Many of the BD marchers came from lower placing Corps before going to Concord, Calif, and still have marching friends in their left behind Corps that they typically see on tours. So most of them don't want to come across as cocky or arrogant, and so most BD marchers don't over the decades in my dealings with them.

Oh hell yeah.

We were in the bronto burger line together in Philadelphia. Seriously Terri, we marched a lot of shows together. Back to the topic at hand.

I thought I saw you there. 😂

Always cutting edge and always stylish. This talk about the pageantry leeches but Devs' designers are truly some of the best in the business. They really do care about pushing the activity in new ways, whether we agree with the direction or not. The kids thrive off it and more often than not will say their time in BD was the best they ever had, whether they get the win or not. Some may not like the rave, k-pop, esoteic style but this what quite a few of the young generation absolutely enjoy. Ever been or seen a rave? The young crowds who go are humongous. I know because I have three college aged children and two absolutely love this music and spectacle of the events. K-pop and other modern styles of music have a huge following. Again may not be yours or my style but the times are always a-changing. Watching Brass Roots and discussion on why DCI was formed by some of the founders and early designers of that era is an great watch. To branch out and not be restricted with limitations. I'm sure the founders may not have liked where the activity is today and there will be a time when this activity grows stale for me as well. I'll walk away gracefully and let others carry the torch. Every member and fan likes a certain style and that is what makes the activity rich. I wish the guys from Concord all the best as well as all the other corps pushing for excellence. It's all good.

It’s a great production. Really and truly.

76 BD was phenomenal! I was there.

I woud agree that if a corps needs to continually explain there's a disconnect BUT for me a great program is one that a person can sit back and say....I have no freakin idea what that was about BUT #### was that good. This is a sign of great programing, wonderfulplaying and exciting viuals.

From a marketing standpoint, tour partners along the nightly travel routes NEED to keep their audiences satisfied, feeling better after they leave the venue. Like it, or not, spontaneous applause, cheers, and engagement with the presentations helps to build repeat customers. Families of the host corps’ members will want to attend automatically and certainly will respond loudly when they take the field. Others in the paying audience need to be “captured,” so to speak. Here, posters frequently write, “ I’ll have to see it a few times, I guess. Maybe then, I’ll get it.” Most in the local audience do not have that luxury. It’s a ‘one night only’ experience for them. Finding that ‘mix’ of challenging materials for the talented performers, and entertainment for the masses has always been a challenge in itself, but both groups need to be considered.

You act as though judges are not biased...I beg to differ. I don't deny people root for their home team. I don't even try and debate area bias. Where is the accountability? Who judges the judges?

Seems to me, appeal to ‘General Audiences’ remains important. Many of the attendees at local stops along the tour are ‘first timers’ we hope decide to come back again next year. People we want to encourage their neighbors to join them for a good night out, bring the kids, etc. People go to football stadiums expecting to cheer. This time, for music. If presentations are too sophisticated, too confusing, and provide little to evoke frequent and spontaneous cheering by onlookers who are ‘not refined enough to get it, ‘ performers are missing out. Polite applause only goes so far. Our hard-working young people deserve much more emotional appreciation from their audiences.

My pet peeve is that if Corps are going to have " show themes", then its imperative that at the conclusion of the show, the audience/ judges understand what , via music and visuals, the show theme intended to communicate in performance to the audience. Its even ok if there could be even 2-4 different interpretations by the audience/ judges of what the show was about. But its NOT ok ( imo ) for the audience/ judges to be confused or found scratching their heads as to what the Corps was attempting to communicate to an audience. Its not ok to for judges to say..... " well, ' not sure what they are attempting to communicate here to me with this show and theme, but they performed the heck out of this show compared to others in their peer group, and it flowed well, and with sufficient demand, so I am going to give them a high GE score". I see not much merit in giving undo credit to Corps with shows that might be performed well, but its communication skills to the audience via its theme chosen was not reached as the audience ( including judges ) are confused at the end with what, via music, visuals, you were attempting to convey. We should not be rewarding potential future music educators that music and dance and visuals need not communicate effectively a chosen theme, if performed well. Music and Dance ( and Visuals )are after all, at its most basic fundamental level throughout human history, the substitute for the spoken or written word. You communicate via song or dance, or music. If the spoken or written words are not intelligible, no matter how eloquently delivered or written, it is understood that the communication failed from the sender to the receiver. It should be the same with music, song and dance. Especially if you tell us beforehand that you have " a show theme ". I see not much value thus in rewarding shows where the audience... including GE judges... are confused with the show theme. I also see little nobility in rewarding such sterile and empty shows filled with ( as Shakespeare himself might posit ) " Wonderful Sound and Fury, but, in the end, signifying nothing. "

We've seen examples of shows where it was up to the audience to interpret what the show was about. Case in point, Phantom 2010. The music was wonderful, the show was modern. They never really explained every aspect of that show. Many audience members watched it and gave it their own meaning. Yet, somehow, so many were moved by it.

Good discussion! After more than 50 years attending drum corps events, I observe less AUDIENCE ENGAGEMENT in today’s programming. By engagement, I refer to earlier shows that had cheering and standing ovations several times throughout each corps performance. From everyone, not just parents and family members. Much of it, spontaneous and predictable. To me, certain elements of a ‘show’ seemed to reliably cause joy and standing O’s. One, still does, the long company front driving toward the front sideline. Another, is straight line, horizontal movement done perfectly. Everyone KNOWS what ‘straight’ means, and they look for it, naturally. In their mind, they are playing along, evaluating and looking for success. I’d like to see a little more of these mixed in. Of course, loud brass chords never miss getting a rise out of people. But, NOT from electronics! Too fake. MOST OF ALL . . . melody that lasts more than just 15 seconds. Give the crowd time to be pleased with the flow, not annoyed by chopped salad noises. How many in the audience can relate to that?

I understand where you’re coming from and I agree with you for the most part. Your comment about throwback shows was an interesting one. Who gets to decide what “done correctly/done well” means? All I’m asking is that design staffs be a bit less esoteric in their approach. Take the opportunity of the exhibition season to see what was popular, what the audience reacted to and build from there. You can present fresh ideas, and still create a fan friendly show.

So I guess we, as supporting fans, don’t matter anymore with current design trends?It’s the “new way” or the highway? This activity has always had a foot based in it’s history. Is it a bad thing to celebrate that history from time to time? Oh hell no. There’s plenty of room on that football field to award diverse approaches to entertainment. I won’t put the onus on the judges to do this, but on the design community to showcase musicality and movement once again. The sheets need to reflect this.

Some very VERY big assumptions have been posted in this thread. There is a very old saying at Cadets ... when they Zig we Zag. Maybe the ZAG is going traditional, marching drill and playing a meaty brass book. Sometimes old is new. Tradition is also about remembering who you are. Members at The Cadets have been repeating the same words over and over for the past few years. I've heard it way too many times to count ..... "I want to fly around the field at 212 bpm with my hair on fire in Maroon and Gold". They got what they asked for (mostly). When it was announced that the 2020 show design was being put on the shelf and the 2021 show tunes were listed .... all I heard was< "YESSSSS! In West Points? YESSSSS!!!! Wth the Stripe? YESSSSS!!!!!! Omg, I have to practice or the crowd will hate us........" I'm sure Phantom felt the same way, reacted the same way and pushed forward ... the same way. It lit a fire and hunger in their membership because they knew they had an awesome opportunity to throw one down... come what may. To assume that the 20 somethings don't want to do the same thing/look the same way/play as many notes/march actual drill - as we did back in the day is just plain wrong. Corps with a strong identity and tradition attract a certain type of person. That person wants to continue the legacy that made that corps AWESOME. The problem for the designers is figuring out how to use that tradition and identity and merge it with modern ideas that will appeal to judges, membership and alumni. II think the big takeaway from 2021 is ... what will the judging community do with this new information? What will the design teams and administrations do with the rules congress's going forward? A shift has been needed for while. I think it's finally here. I just hope those in power have the foresight to do the right thing with this new knowledge.

What’s old is new again. Let’s not assume modern day drum corps is all about amplification and staging as far as audience appeal goes. I think the 20 year old audience members were exposed to a couple of retro shows and they ate it up because THEY were different from what passes as drum corps now. The activity is evolving and can include all sorts of styles. It’s about time the judging sheets reflected this rather than as Terri so eloquently put it….”Monkey see Monkey do.”

No one is saying that. But, what you are saying and implying is that a corps that plays say Mahler (or any other piece that has been played whenever) is automatically not helping the activity or drawing members. Which I find no support or reality supporting this assumption.

A lot of truth there. But, I would suggest a word of caution that assuming kids today don't like standing ovation shows seems quite a stretch. To think kids today didn't get a kick out of the shows this year would be quite a disconnect. Perhaps, we should be actually ASKING them what they would like to do rather than telling them what is good or forcing down their throats for 40/50 year old designers say is "good". Simply stating as a "fact" that we have to do XYZ to attract people...I dunno. A LOT of assuming there. The problem IMHO is wanting to win on some score sheet is driving this rather than entertainment and fun. Couple that with what a few..make that VERY few consider what is good and entertaining vs regular people paying the vast majority of the tickets and flo. I really don't need someone to look down on me and state what is good when I (and everyone else) are quite capable of coming to that conclusion. I can say for a fact, after the shows this year, what I consider good was overwhelmingly supported. Corps snobs this year were certainly put in their place whether they accept that reality or not.

What about Phantom or Cadets’ show this year was not appealing to the members of today? I’ve seen this point raised a lot but never really seen evidence to back it up.

i dunno, it feels like the mold has been broken a few times the last year. the problem is when one does it, everyone tries to copy it. thats not judging, thats designers too afraid to go boldly elsewhere

Call me a dinosaur but I just don't understand not wearing hats and schacos anymore. Are people sitting past row ten supposed to make out these oh so important facial expressions of the marching members? Just another gimmick taken from WGI that never should have been incorporated so broadly into drum corps