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I nominate Poppycock.

I didn’t say what I did to have people proselytizing to me about my dedication, or lack of it, to drum corps but evidently, that’s where this conversation has gone. When they “fix it”, maybe I’ll come back, but I don’t anticipate that happening.

I also don’t get the “burn it down” perspective. We have complained about the rise of cancel culture in society lately, and I see “burn it down” as exactly that. It is worth the effort to fix it rather than not. The EASY solution is to burn it down. I worked my tail off as I’m sure most on DCP have for their corps, I’ll be dxxxxd if I’d agree to “burning it all down” and see it all that effort walked away from. These discussion cannot and should not ever stop. If it stops, all the bad stuff continues. Solutions must be found. Pressure to all orgs, DCI as an org included must be exerted and amplified. Now there’s an amplification people can agree on. Do the hard work of fixing the mess, If you love the activity as you say.

I agree with you wholeheartedly. I have said previously that heads SHOULD roll over the SOA situation, and any other similar situations. But, I just don't understand the "burn it all down" mentality. I am certain there is little chance that all the other corps have perfect histories in this regard, but why do some folks on here assume that all drum corps members and staff are criminally negligent and all corps do nothing when a problem arises? Look, everyone is free to support the activity or not, but it almost feels as if there are a few who are just cheering for the demise of DCI. AMPS didn't do it, props didn't do it, so now let's hope sexual harassment does. Jeez!

not enough to enact serious change. they got nationwide press in 2018. here we are in 2022.

Sadly I understand and agree. Was planning to get Flo and see if DCI still had interest for me but not at the present. That was last years plan but that 2 week tour was a bad time to stay home to watch. Like I’ve done with some other businesses, if something bothers me with them then no money from me. Otherwise feels like I’m condoning what bothers me.

What? Over? Did you say "over"? Nothing is over until we decide it is. (Thought this was a perfect time for this clip.) I've got a former student aging out this year & they gonna win!

In every sense of the word, I think this thread may have come to an end.

reduce the 6 weeks of spring training with its increased costs but no revenue and boom...savings

…

News from BDPA, looks like they’re on a search… https://bluedevils.org/news/article.php?ID=1033

Speaking of a two week tour, they couldn’t even control bad behavior in that short amount of time. Thanks for reminding me.

Blue Devils have a pretty comprehensive youth protection policy and "safe space" policy, so I would hope that their response would be appropriate in relation to whatever has been reported. Likewise, I would hope that the public reaction would be appropriate in the event that they mishandled whatever was reported to them. I wouldn't put the 2000 incident on the same level as sexual abuse. I was in the stadium that night, and most folks assumed that he was late getting to the field because of an equipment issue or some legitimate problem. Very few people knew he had been kicked out the night before. It wasn't until weeks/months later that the real story started to trickle out via RAMD and other means. Interesting enough, I believe he was met by security and law enforcement after exiting the field after the show... which would hopefully preface how BD would react in a more serious situation.

I can't watch it either. I do feel sorry for the actors who don't get any money from syndication fees because no channel will show Cosby reruns.

I could get behind it.

Unfortunately, misconduct will continue. What has to change are the consequences for misconduct. I’m for dropping the hammer on offending individuals AND their corps administration with a rifle shot approach… not just putting a brick of C4 in Indy and blowing up the whole activity.

Can’t watch anything Cosby is on or some other stars that I’ve found over the years were racist or did sick things. As for tv, movies, sports or DCI as a whole. If eyes were closed or enabling occurred, could care less if they take a huge hit. Especially DCI which promotes itself as a YOUTH activity. And one that says it’s taken steps to protect members yet “probation” is the strongest thing they will do. Bottom line: this CANNOT continue

Curiosity: If the precious and untouchable Blue Devils had something like this occur with a member and/or staff member, etc.; how many of you would look the other way? I ask this because back in 2000 a member was kicked out of that corps, before finals, and snuck back to perform with the corps on finals night. A lot of people seemed to find that funny and actually supported that individual for what he did because he was a Blue Devil.

I’ll qualify this statement with the context that I’ve followed Spirit since 1978. I have a sibling that marched Spirit in the Jim Ott days. I’ve always been a fan and supporter. So I’m sad, disappointed, and more than a bit angry that SOA appears to not only have fallen asleep at the switch, but perhaps never installed a switch to begin with. There are clearly issues to be addressed at SOA. They’ve lost their way. But that’s not where my thoughts are as I read this thread. My thoughts are with the “burn it all down, I’ve seen my last show” crowd. I have some questions. 1. Did you stop watching all sitcoms as a result of Bill Cosby’s deeds? 2. Did you quit watching movies when Harvey Weinstein was convicted? 3. When Ray Rice beat up his girlfriend on video, did you boycott the NFL? 4. When it became clear that Mark McGwire, Sammy Sosa, and Barry Bonds all cheated to capture Hank Aaron’s home run title by taking steroids, did you quit watching Major League Baseball? I could obviously extend this indefinitely… but I’m sure you get the point. Why are so many ready to throw an entire activity out the door over an incident in one drum corps? Or even multiple drum corps?

don't click on it

I’m not buying flo this summer. That’s all i did last year. $60 for two months. I spent about $5000 on drum corps between donations and shows in 2019. And similar amounts annually for many years beforehand. I’m not boycotting. I’m sure there will be plenty of people to take my place. I just don’t feel comfortable in supporting this activity under the CURRENT circumstances.

Pioneer had a 'family culture' as well. Families can be dysfunctional.

I worked under same system in DoD. The difference is that in DoD there is teeth to the policy, and the organization is more than willing to use the teeth when needed. It has been proven time and again that DCI/Corps cannot, or do not want, to discipline themselves. It only happened with Cadets, Pioneer, Crossmen, & Troopers when news media picked up the story. With SoA nothing happened until a brave victim came forward (after hiring a law firm). All of this happened in public. And the publicity debacle is what forced action, not DCI/Corps doing the right thing for the right reasons. There are current allegations against Raiders, Battalion, & SCV new director. What is DCI doing about this? It would appear NOTHING.

I’d call 911 if I was sexually assaulted while on tour with a drum corps. But I’m not telling anyone else what to do. There was a member on drumcorps Reddit a couple of years ago who said that when she called DCI about being sexually assaulted, the woman on the other end told her she’d have to find a way “to get over it”. Very helpful. Getting right down to it. 🙄 I have ZERO confidence in them doing the right thing.

Fair. Let me phrase it another way. Who oversees whistleblower reports to the individual corps? Who determines legality at the corps level? Who determines legality at DCI? This is a black box. Who oversees whistleblower reports to DCI? EquitAbility is contracted for investigations, but I don’t believe they audit the whistleblower complaints. Who does? Does that happen now? Should it? Is anybody happy with how either of these reporting mechanisms are working? Are they serving the members well? Are they serving the activity well? If not, how is change brought about? Recently, a student reported a very serious situation to DCI and WGI. 4 months into the investigation, an anonymous Instagram account reached out, asking specific questions about the situation, a situation only a few people were made aware of. There’s major mishandling of these incidents and they get bungled at every step, it seems. My point is, the mechanisms in place are manned by woefully untrained, probably well-meaning people, who have no idea how to actually handle these complaints. We’ve only heard about some of the mishandling. I’d expect there’s a LOT more. Btw, WGI asked this student to keep the situation “hush-hush” after determine the offending instructor (active in BOA, DCI, WGI, and multiple Winterguard circuits) was egregiously wrong, which is victim silencing, a HUGE no-no. That person slithered under their rock and might still be consulting programs - who knows? The floodgates have been open for a while now. The 2 sandbags are not enough. We need more sandbags.

I heard nothing but great things when he was at Boston.

I was one of those kids. The previous two corps before Cadets left bad tastes in my mouth. Hell, I almost didn't go back to Cadets in 2000 because 1999 was such a sub-par experience (behind the scenes). I was never a ring chaser, but when I first saw Cadets live in 1996, I knew that was the corps I wanted to march. I was just a horrible trumpet player when I first discovered drum corps.

Also, to circle back to the topic, the Cadets are now in great hands. Ron Lambert is a great guy and well organized. He will bring them to a new level.

It depends on how you rate a "really bad year". I think the term "embarassing show" is particularly harsh. You mention about going to BD. Yes, they always have a high talent level, and that propels them competitively every year. However, they have won at times with shows that impressed the judging community more than the audience, with other shows from competitors doing better in that regard. To this day, the Cadets are 2nd only to BD in terms of titles. You mention 2015-2016. Although the 2015 Cadet corps lost their mid-season lead, they are still the only corps in DCI history to win both high brass and high percussion in a championship round (semifinals) and not win the show, never mind the 4th that they came in, and they took high brass in finals as well. That was one fine show musically, and hardly an embarrassment. They did fall off a bit after that year, due to various reasons. When Jay Bocook left the Cadets, there was a noticeable drop in the quality of brass arrangements and brass performance. Throw in the troubles of 2018, and they battled through things that would have forced lesser corps to fold or have at least a year of inactivity. But they hung in, and not only went out, but were solidly in finals. Now, Bocook is back, the brass staff is strong, other captions are strong, and last year's corps was significantly better than the prior two seasons, and were very well received. The kids who go to the corps, like most corps, learn to work hard and are given a positive experience. That hasn't changed. Yes, many kids flock to BD to get a ring....I do wonder if they consider it a failure if they pick the wrong year and do not get one.....if "consistency in member experience" only equates to winning, does that mean all corps other than BD fail?

I fully support what Newseditor44 posted above. A large part of the problem is that Drum Corps is a small community, and the large majority of Corps staff/instructors marched or taught with all the other Corps staff/instructors. It could almost be considered Incestuous. So, they all have each other's backs, and that is part of the problem.