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That’s not pizza. 😂

Props to the Raiders who acted fast and announced right away he was gone http://m.bartlesvilleradio.com/pages/news/338002022/icc-instructor-arrested-for-rape-among-other-charges

Kinda funny how we are talking about pizza.... I just smoked a 24 pound turkey on my Pecos offset smoker for Easter. I brined it for around 48 hours, seasoned it with Meatchurch's Holy VooDoo, and I smoked it with cherry and maple wood. I just dug into it and oooooooooh man. That sucker was so dang good.

Hey! I live in SoCal. Get it right! It's an $11 piece of cheese covered cardboard. LMAO.

Good point. Appeal process when a corps reports them? Or have area on report of what they are accused of and the accused persons rebuttal? Have dealt with bullies in the past. Some of “reasons” given for their actions were mind boggling.

People are on the police list because they have been convicted & put on the list. The issue facing Drum Corps is how to handle individuals who have exhibited bad behavior but haven’t been convicted in a court of law. What happens if someone is ‘on the list’ but believes that the should not be on the list?

It was easy for DCI to discipline Pioneer because Pioneer didn’t fit into the current DCI brand. Look how DCI didn’t wavered all over the place w/SoA

Tavern-style, cut in squares, please. The greasier, the better. I prefer Al’s pizza in Warrenville, Illinois but I’ll settle for a suitable substitute. I don’t eat the deep dish stuff.

That finals night will never be topped. The greatest season of drum corps of all time

Whoever runs it can present its findings. The key is dci has to grow a set and put rules and consequences in place that have real teeth. Spirit was going to walk until backlash online grew in addition to their #### poor handling of everything

Trailers don’t have basements! 💥

Tried Little Caesar’s when the commercial had the cartoon guy in a toga saying “Pizza pizza”. After trying it we called it “crapza, crapza”. Well not crapza but gives a better idea than “####za, ####za”. edit wow I had to enter #### by hand as dirty word nanny didn’t catch it 😨

Sometimes, you just gotta have a $6 piece of cheese covered cardboard.

So i guess offering you a slice of deep dish Little Caesars pizza is going to get me back-handed lol.

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Ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. Like, why yell at kids?!?! Why threaten kids?!?! They're freakin' kids man! I think the worst I got in HS was talk from one of my band directors about my most likely incessant statements of "but that's not how we do it in DCI." Oddly enough, he was a DCI guy. But to his point...this was HS band. If you can't take a few honks and squeaks, a lack of god-like talent and some questionable work ethic, get out of the business of teaching KIDS. EDIT: I do want to point out that I had FAR from god-like talent when I marched. I had a little bit of talent, some GREAT band directors with ties to DCI, a very good private instructor who knew EXACTLY how to audition and prep for DCI and a level of "the dumb" which was unmatched (like when I discovered "Oh so it's just snare rudiments on 5 drums...that's easy enough.")

Sad and yet, so very true. And at this moment it is "lawsuit roulette" and we are just waiting for the first bullet to fly.

Hmmmm...valid point. I think that adds a whole new twist and does probably bring in some legalities that would have to be considered. It makes you wonder if this same kind of conversation is taking place within DCI or the member corps meetings. I'm not going to hold my breath...but I hope it is.

Two points that need to be hammered out. As stated earlier in the thread, both of the points you bring to the table were the stickiest parts. IMHO, being on that list means that one would have to have been proven to have taken part in an action which is in direct violation of whatever rules are set in place by an independent committee and voted into action by DCI. DCI is the corps and vice versa so the knife cuts both ways. Regarding where to publish said list, I think Jim has a viable solution. Potential staff are vetted by the corps and part of that process would be to check the database, similar to a background check. Is it a perfect solution. Nope. There is no perfect solution. Is it better than what we have now which is to wait for months and sometimes years for things to come out even after multiple survivor stories. Yep.

Two things: - where to draw the line on who to list - who has the guts to publish the list (and the lawyer$$$ to defend their position)

this 1000000%. DCI has shown themselves to be incapable of doing it right

Loyalty has legs everywhere nowadays. It’s expensive to be in drum corps and I guess they want more bang for the buck. I’m not defending it. I joined a nonfinalist corps when there was a better one a little further up the road. We worked hard to get into finals and succeeded. But, that was in the ‘70’s and things are different now.

for the whiff alone....

It was a show that tried in 12 minutes to deal with the roots of war from childhood on. The biggest creators of the show were Robert Smith, composer, and Karl Lowe, Color Guard and more. A lot of the other staff did drill and such that were amazing too! It was 1988 and showed still fear of the then Soviet Union, ultra-nationalism of other countries, nuclear war, and memory of the Vietnam War that were alive for all of us who were in Suncoast then. The show isn't perfect but there was a special pride for many of us to have been a part of a DCI piece that dared to be different and have a message.

You can make it thru a Little Caesars pie but you need a 12-pack of "the beast"; Milwaukee's Best.

That's one of the issues that's hitting SafeSport. They have an independent arbitration process that the accused can use to dispute allegations against them. In an alarming number of cases, the accused have been able to go through that arbitration process and have their SafeSport assessed sanctions lessened or completely removed in some cases. The secondary issue involves fair employment laws, which create a unique web of nuances from one state to the next. While it may seem to be common sense that a person shouldn't be hired (or maybe fired) based on information contained within a database, there may be legal aspects that don't necessarily fall on the side of common sense. Even some criminal convictions that seem very offensive or upsetting don't necessarily bar a person from employment with a youth organization. An employer has to be able to prove that an offense is substantially related to the circumstances of a particular job, and it's harder to do that in some cases than some might think.

Control is the key closely followed by cost. They’d have to pay to bring in people with experience as well as give up some control

... where did THAT come from? You asked what the main challenges might be. I tried to answer your question. I have no magical answer, so I am open to suggestion. Frankly, the best that comes to mind right now is yours: Oh, and by the way... My word choice may not be the best. When I said "publish", I imagined access being restricted to those who make staffing decisions for marching arts programs. Your idea avoids even that level of "publishing", and therefore could be more practical.

Another problem is it’s not going to be perfect the first… second… time. And even when as good as can be society or law will change. First few years anti sexual harassment training had male harassing female only. People being trained were “wait a minute 🥴”. Then female harassing male and finally same sex harassment. The same sex part came from societal changes IMO and policy had to catch up. And IIRC policy was “report to supervisor” period. Uhh.. what if the boss is the harasser? Oops something else missed. IMO keep working at having a policy and keep looking for ways to improve. Saying it’s not going to be perfect and doing nothing is worse than useless as it empowers the people causing the problems

Here in SoCal, i am looking for a second job to pay for the gas i need to drive to my first job. LMAO.

I wonder if we are trying to reinvent the wheel? Does anyone know USA Gymnastics (idk if that is the exact term) set up (if anything) to prevent another Larry Nasser? What about NCAA schools & Title 9 stuff? Of course, both have a lot more $ than Drum Corps. I think with enough time & money something could be developed. We used to say that the ideal process is high-quality, fast, & inexpensive. The problem is that you can only have two - if it is fast & inexpensive it won’t be high quality. If it is inexpensive & high quality it won’t be fast. And fast & high quality won’t be inexpensive.

$0.02 to George Zingali!

We are entirely on the same page and it I encourage you (if you have the capacity) to reach out to some corps and offer your experience and knowledge. I'm trying to do the same but I can't volunteer any more of my time than I currently am without it impacting my finances and self worth. (I've tried so many times to help my corps to no avail.) Certainly no pressure, but you know how to resolve exactly the issues that corps seem to be so helplessly confused by. I can only imagine how it must feel to have your knowledge-base and then watch drum corps crumble in the face of this challenge. As I've reconnected in the last month or so, prompted by one of my closest alumni friends, it's been very discouraging. And make no mistake, the powers that be that allow/turn a blind eye to/enable sexual predators in this activity are the same powers that be that enabled my abuse and neglect when I marched nearly 20 years ago. I don't necessarily mean the same people (although that is partially the case). I mean the mindset that sees marching members as expendable. Even if unspoken. To your points, I can confirm that people speed through the trainings. I've watched it too throughout my career. We are totally only chipping away at this problem, as the recommendations I've made so far to the activity start with: "require training and don't hire people who refuse this minimal standard." It's truly a tiny bandage for corps to set this minimum benchmark for protection. Others are in the Bill of Rights I published for marching members to begin to protect themselves. Listen, I agree on your second point too. I made it through 7 combined years in marching band and drum corps, nearly 10 years teaching in the activity, PLUS another 10 years of dance education training/experience before I got trained up on mandated reporting. That's embarrassing for me and both activities. What's worse, I only came about it because a student disclosed their experience to me. I was at a loss at the time, had no idea what to do. This is so beyond unacceptable. I'm tired of chipping away at this. I've brought my sledgehammer and jackhammer. Young people are still being harmed. And this marching generation has already been through more in their young lives than anything like most of us that are alum. They deserve so much more to keep them safe.

It's certainly an interesting model to explore. One thing that is missing and you brought a bit more into the light is the action/connection of/to an HR department. That's one thing that DCI seems to be missing in this case in regards to the member corps.

I would think that "compiling a list" might be more of a legal issue (I am not a lawyer). In Education, you get a teaching certificate to the state you work in, which can be retired, expired, surrendered, or in rare instances be revoked. The last two are "yellow flags" to most (if not all) school districts HR departments. In Texas there is a website to see a person’s status. I am sure in other states there could be issues with state teacher’s unions etc to keep the sites from even existing. Is it a perfect system? No, but it seems to work. Most school across the country give the “accused” teacher the choice of 1) Immediately sign these papers and you are no longer employed or 2) we will go public to the press about what you (supposedly) did and let the legal process take place. Obviously, most take the first option and ultimately surrender their teaching certificate. So, with that said and using a model like, say, Texas, what if once a clear backround check comes back either DCI, the corps, or a separate organization (with plenty of lawyers / maybe even drum corps alum who are lawyers) were able to issue that staff member a teaching certificate for the summer, then manage the certificate’s status? It seems to me that there is precident through the state educational systems to be able to pull this off legally. Who knows? Like I said, I am no lawyer.

Since you are so quick to down others ideas, what are YOUR suggestions in handing this? How can a corps protect itself from hiring someone who had problems at another corps. Problems (bullying, harassment, etc) not bad enough that there would be a police record.

Good points. I think it would be naïve to believe that we are doing anything more than chipping away as you stated. Every year, I rebrand and rewrite policies on topics like sexual harassment prevention for clients. What never ceases to amaze me is that: 1. I have to track the yearly results for compliance in both completion and testing and it's AMAZING how many people speed through 4 hours of content in 35 minutes and then fail the testing and have to re-take. The &%%& is serious. Take it seriously. 2. The newer generations of managerial and even front line workers have literally NO CONCEPT that some of these rules exist. It's...staggering and quite disturbing. Maybe I am the naïve one at this point because I almost look at it as common sense on a lot of these subjects. The statement that safer students have more fun is exactly what we need. We need todays participants to have fun, learn skills and concepts of leadership, working towards a common goal and accepting failures and successes equally.

And Spirit made the decision and not DCI… Still think some people think DCI made the suspend operations call… nope

Correct DCI did not have the legal authority to tell Pioneer to make internal changes. But DCI did have the authority to not allow Pioneer to participate in DCI events. I am not saying a 3rd party would be able to make changes within a corps. What I am saying is a 3rd party should be able to set (or at least suggest) the proper action, including not participating in DCI. Which is no different from what DCI did in Pioneers case. The difference is someone other than DCI determines what should be done. I keep picturing DCI BoD saying “something needs to be done about corps A… but if we penalize them it will hurt our organization as a whole…. Uhhhhhhh”. Cliche is fox guarding the chicken coop

It's going to be a monumental challenge to actually establish an entity that is truly independent and effective. You don't have to look any further than SafeSport to see that it's harder than most people would have imagined. That organization continues to face adversity on many levels that threaten its credibility, effectiveness and long term viability: https://www.espn.com/olympics/story/_/id/33348656/us-center-safesport-olympic-movement-misconduct-watchdog-struggles-shed-paper-tiger-reputation There also has to be a long hard look at how any 3rd party organization can truly control/impact what happens within the walls of an individual corps. Pioneer is the perfect example. DCI required that the Blenski family step aside from the board, but they didn't have the authority to actually require that such a transition happen. In fact, nobody in the world had the legal authority to make them do that based on my understanding of corporation laws in most states. There would likely have to be changes to the bylaws of each organization to allow a 3rd party entity to have any legal bearing on what happens within each individual organization.

If such happens, its got to be the Chicago, Illinois style pizza on its way, amirite ? ☺️

What's interesting is that we are able to discuss the possibility of Boston making the top three. It's been a bit.

The one I lived in sure didn’t 😆. But plenty of dirt… As for people going to better corps (aka ring chase)…. nothing new under the sun. And with cost to join anymore that’s has to be part of the “is this going to be worth the expense “ consideration.

Every industry has these issues and some are handling it better than others. There are minimal standards that most organizations still don't have in place that would begin to chip away at issues related to discrimination in its many forms, bullying, and abuse. My own racialized experience in corps really messed with me for a long time. I've heard board testimony to the same effect in the last several years at my home corps. It's out there. It hurts. And corps have to do better if they don't want to keep shrinking their talent pools minimally. And another, more significant benefit to adopting this work is that more (ideally all) marching members are safer. When they're safer, they have more fun.

I don't see this as an issue. Talent is going to go where talent goes. That's the way it has always been and most likely the way it will always be. There is plenty of top level talent in most of the top corps. To say that the "majority" are ring chasers is a bit unfair. Now if you said "people go to BD because they know that year to year there will be a good shot of winning a championship," I think that's what we ALL strived for IF we had the talent. I marched a lower level top 12 because I did NOT have that talent level. What in the world would be wrong with marching in a place you could win a championship at if you had the ability? As far as the other comment on staff, I've met a lot of those cats and they seem personable if not driven. I got cut from PR at a camp in 1989. Do I hate PR? Not at all. I didn't have the "stuff" to make it.

I am curious, these as YOU CALL THEM "ring chasing transplants" and "fart sniffing snobs" in regards to the staff...............how many of them have you said those EXACT words directly to their face, and not behind the safety of the social media device of your choice? If you are going to engage in name calling, do us all a favor and shut off the WiFi to your basement.

' Looking forward to seeing what all these Corps have in store for us this this season, Blue Devils included. I, like most others, expect BD not to miss a beat after the unprecedented experience for them ( and several others ) of being away from field performance and a show design creation for 2 years. I have no doubt that they will be as formidable a competitor for the other Corps as they have always been. They are the epitome of excellence as an Organization and set the bar high as a model for other Corps Organizations to aspire to over the years.

Blue Devils 2011 show is one of their best music books from the 2010-2019 era. The sound of that horn line is nothing short of amazing. Some of the best playing I've heard during that era. Right up there with BD 2014 or Crown 13 and 14. Yes, Cadets absolutely deserved the championship that year but musically Blue Devils were such a treat.

As a BD Honk, 2009-2013..........i consider those the golden years of DCI lol. The hate that was spewed towards BD in those years was highly entertaining. The contradictions and double standards towards BD...................accusations of paying off judges from posters who claimed to be tapped into the highest levels of DCI, yet somehow in this era of camera phones, video/audio, no one could produce a single shred of evidence this was happening. Gee i wonder why lol. Yea DCP was in rare form those years. Watching grown adults get so upset over a 11-12min show performed by a bunch of 18-21 year olds lol. But it did get better starting in 2014. DCP was showing BD lots of love these past several years. Still my favorite DCP highlight was in 2015 when BD added the young lady Clara to the "INK" show. The BD haters were out in full force counting members hoping and praying Clara would put them over the maximum number, so they could complain and get BD disqualified or something lol. It was just hilarious to see. The other highlight same year, were the haters shortly after finals that claimed BD added Clara to the show at the last minute, because they were terrified of Crown, so BD needed a 10 year old to win. Except for the fact that in the BD360 series that year, there is a vid from the Family Day in mid-June where BD talks about discovering Clara. She was in the plans from day one lol. Over the years i have learned to appreciate the BD haters. I realized the haters are extremely important to the Blue Devils Brand, because in order for them to hate and cause discontent, they have to mention BD. And as long as they are talking about BD positive or negative, it keeps them relevant. Any publicity is good publicity.