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I'm enjoying all the discussion about formulas in DCI show creation. First let me start by saying I absolutely LOVED Carolina Crown this summer. I don't care if the show placed 4th, 3rd, 2nd, or 20th. There were a lot of good moments to dig into. Brass had a nice and fun book and they played incredibly well...even winning high brass on Finals night. Was it a perfect show? No, but honestly no one else had a perfect show either. To me a formula for creating DCI shows is like your identity. I think Cappy mentioned this. Whatever Crown's formula has been since 2008 I love it. It is uniquely them. They have certainly adjusted it over the years. New staff will come in and try to find their niche within the system. There is nothing wrong with Crown's formula. It works. I mean...they absolutely lit up Lucas Oil on Finals night. So I think the crowd loved them. Now if the question is how does their formula work from a competitive standpoint? Well, that is a different conversation but I will leave it to the designers at Crown to determine their formula and show design concepts and not worry so much about scores. There has been talk about Blue Devils being too formulaic. Well, of course they are. What they do works, they usually tweak a few things each year, and they concentrate on great caption strength. From my perspective I found their show super enjoyable so I don't have a problem with how they design. If the question is: "Can a drum corps create and entirely new show using new and unique (never been done before) methods in visual and music each year?" I think the answer is no. You can't just reinvent the wheel every year, and frankly you can't do this every 10 years. More importantly, this is NOT what most drum corps fans would want. These sort of questions only seem to come up when comparing one show to another in a competitive sense because you're trying to make a point that corps X is better than corps Y. From 1998 to 2008 the Cavaliers had a very clear formula but they used that to their advantage and won 5 DCI championships in 7 years. In each of those years I felt the shows were all different and unique, yet they shared elements of design concepts and music concepts that you could call a formula; but in the end who cares? It worked. They were great and very entertaining. When film producers and directors hire a guy like John Williams to score music for their motion picture they don't tell him to go out on a limb, find a new way to write music, and sound like Hans Zimmer. They don't do that because they hired JW for the sound, style, orchestration, and musical concepts he brings to a film. They could have hired Hans Zimmer if they wanted his unique style and sound. Crown is not trying to look or sound like any other corps. I can respect that. To me Michael Klesch and their brass caption head (Harloff) have been the heart and soul of that corps for a lot of years. They recruit like mad and provide amazing experiences for those members. Michael's brass scores have been fantastic! Everyone has their preference so no need to argue over that. Bottom line, Crown's brass has played some terrific books and they are usually in the top 2 in brass year in and out. How is that a bad thing? I think Crown will continue to tweak their visual ideas and the concepts they develop around, and musically they will continue to be uniquely and amazingly Crown.

And be prepared for it to all go buh-bye REAL fast..

There are some championship caliber corps that could learn from Phantom's philosophy.

I can perfectly understand how Phantom Regiment was the fan favorite show this season . No gimmicks .l. No large and obtrusive props . No narration . Just terrific music and drill presented in an interesting and appealing manner to many of us fans .( I can also understand why Phantom Regiment placed out of the top 6 too , but that’s beside the point ) . Kudos to Phantom Regiment this season for providing such an appealing and entertaining show loved by so many of us 👍

While still employed and not yet retired, I gave funds to several students who were participating in DCI corps, and recently, DCA corps. This was always in the form of cash directly to the marching member, sometimes before the season and sometimes during the season. One kid was polishing members horns for pocket change. The corps director pointed him out to me, and he didn't have to polish any more horns that season. Some were "full ride" cash grants that covered all fees and included spending money for tour, others were partial grants. I used money from playing gigs, overtime pay and/or tax refunds. I do know this: The kids I assisted are today: Gainfully employed responsible adults, mothers and fathers, teachers, medical professionals and more! It was money well spent!

Let's start from the very beginning A very good place to start When we read, we begin with A-B-C When we start a corps, we begin with dough-dough-dough

Step 1: Be a billionare Step 2: Cultivate a desire to be a millionare instead ???? Step 4: don't profit

I don't know about you guys but I've had the "Right here, right now!" part stuck in my head for weeks now and I couldn't be happier. Not every drum corps fan analyzes a show down to the decimal point. Some of us just like a song but can't describe why. It just sticks with us. And that's okay.

Considering how many people have said on this very forum that they will be listening to this show for years to come? Get off your high horse and play in the hay. I promise you'll be happier.

I maintain a charitable trust (that I started with $1000.00 in 1998 and has grow pretty nicely) to raise money for fDCI as well as donating to corps. It has grown to where I contact corps to anonymously donate to members of need in the name of the trust. (I also give to local STL charities as well).

And you just opinionized as well. Whether you viewed it to be good or not, it still held its own and placed safely in 4th in GE, which is the design caption, and only .375 behind everyone's beloved Boston Crusaders at finals. So it obviously had some merit.

With this much discussion activity, this early in the season, definitely liking CrownTHREAD’s chances of repeating this year🥇🏆.

Absolutely! Whether you like Crown or not they put a lot of people on their feet this past summer.

Well this is going into very nice directions. 👍👍👍👍👍 Hope all this info helps more than just me.

And now... for scores.. "Ladies and Gentlemen, with the SILVER medals..." [madness ensues]

you can call the corps, and find out. They'll often be able to tell you who needs help. Some students can send you a gofundme. however, gofundme takes a %. So its always better to donate directly and specify where the money goes.

Here is a stat for you. BD has more undefeated seasons (8) than Cavies/SCV has in total titles (7 each). Two more unbeaten seasons, they will catch the Cadets at 10. Dominance.

Awesome! I have donated to a couple of students in the past toward their tuition. But I'm thinking about setting up a 'go fund me' account for my summer fan tour. (I kid, I kid...) 😁

I don’t think so. That’s much later. Next year.

hell thats the airport

Why is the Academy seeking a corps director? First, this opening is in no way related to the crises we encountered in 2022. The Academy purchased a $450,000 brand new food truck, which was supposed to be the best in all of DCI. Upon leaving for tour, the refrigeration compartment could not keep food at the guaranteed temperature, and we lost over $7000 in food right away. The freezer compartment barely reached 35 degrees, far from the guaranteed zero degrees. These challenges forced our wonderful food crew to scramble all season long for fresh food and drink supplies, and they did an amazing job except for one or two exceptions when some students near the end of the line settled for food different from those in front of them. We took care of them. And then came 15-20 cases of COVID ... including our E.D. We have one of the best executive directors in DCI. Mark Richardson was chosen "Director of the Year" in 2016. But drum corps is big business carrying an annual budget over $1 million. It really takes two strong leaders to take care of all tasks from the business side to recruitment to staff building to show creation to facilitating a positive growth experience for the students. Mark is not leaving, Thank God! We need a corps director to supplement Mark. If you know competent leaders who would fit our culture, please encourage them to apply. It will be very, very rewarding!

Who decided the other shows aren’t also fun? I have no issues with whatever Crown does, and you may love it as the pinnacle of the activity. But to imply that Crown focuses on fun while the other corps are focusing on not fun…that’s kinda snooty Ive always thought of Crown as the marching band every high school marching band wishes it could be. Which is a great idea imo for a whole lot of reasons. But to imply that Bluecoats isn’t at least as much fun…or Phantom or SCV…hard pass. P.S. Arguably the best show Crown ever put on a field was Inferno…which is as highbrow as you can get.

We’re 🐑

My point exactly, thank you skevinp! It IS quite sad that people seem to always have a list of ways BD’s shows are formulaic. All while under the delusional that all other corps don’t also have their own little recipebook. Maybe a fairy will leave something under the pillow for them in exchange for the list

Carolina Crown Rules for 2023 1. Choose one idea and one idea only, please. 2. Find another way to discard of equipment after using so that the field isn't cluttered afterwards. 3. Don't put everything on the field first week. Build the show as the season progresses. 4. Please don't wait until the season is almost over to start cleaning.

I believe Phantom Regiment may have set an all-time record for the longest sustained full-crowd standing ovation during a competition show Saturday night - 1 minute, 39 seconds. This was from the beginning of the chevron push in the closer to the end of the show (not counting the time after the final note). The previous longest standing O in recent memory was during the closer of Babylon in 2018, which was a paltry 52 seconds - Regiment nearly DOUBLED that! Madison 2011 (Empire State of Mind) was 48 seconds at Finals. Can anyone come up with one that was even in the ballpark of what happened Saturday night? I'm not counting Victory runs, which are a different animal. I'm talking a judged competition performance.

Organize a board of directors File articles of incorporation Apply for a 501c3 thru the IRS Focus on raising funds buy equipment seek expert advice on what it really costs to run a drum corps seek MORE expert advice on how to operate daily, food, medical, transportation, communication, logistics, partnerships, grants, gaming laws in your state, etc etc etc etc. Keep spending your money on equipment, vehicles, property, invest .... not on people Wait 3-5 years until you have a few million $$$ in the bank .. then worry about being a drum corps If you're smart, you'll focus more on programs that service your local community, build those bridges before you add a drum corps as a program. Best of luck

First, get money. The more, the better.

There is no question that if a corps returns a large number of members, especially a top tier competitor, it is likely that they are going to be strong. However, the actual number of ageouts a corps has is not nearly the "predictor" that it used to be. First off, a large number (larger than ever) of members just march a a season or two, and that's it. Cost is HUGE. Some corps do offer discounts to returning members...some even use a sliding scale for years served. Still, many plan on a year or two max, and that is it....certainly understandable these days. Back in the day, we didn't even start inquiring about an eligible member's return until November....giving them time to recharge their batteries and think about it. Some would say right away if they are coming back or not....some would wait several months....also, top corps attract top talent.....so you may have a 20 or 21 year old "rookie" who is every bit as good as others that marched 4 seasons.....some may come from strong college, high school, and indoor programs. Some may have marched with a smaller corps, or even with another finalist, so they are not really "rookies". The bottom line is you may have a corps with a huge number of new people, yet the corps very well might do just fine....it depends on the corps, the talent level, and the vehicle that the staff gives them.

People can opinionize as they wish. The concept of the 2022 show was not good. It was pandering and desperate for audience participation.

Phantom this year was wonderful. They deserved a long standing ovation. I think Madison Scouts in 1995 had some very long standing ovations that started from the end of the Malaga park and blow to the rotating company front to the push to the final drill form. I don't have stats on the time, but I don't think I have ever seen an audience go nuts as they did for that show. And if you add up all the standing ovations Madison got through the show, you are probably talking about 3 minutes of standing time.

All-time sporting franchises that haven’t 3-peated, The niners(a nod to your fandom haha) still have the second most Super Bowls for NFL franchises, the Pats, no national team in the history of football(the one actually played with feet) has done it. The biggest prize in club football, the champions league in Europe has only had one team do it once and that was Real Madrid. Just like in DCI, three-peats are rare, anywhere in *team* sports at least haha ill balance out the BD boasting by voicing my prediction that they won’t three-peat haha Best of luck to them though in that quest!!

Only a new Troopers shirt for me; the traditional one! (And I would have found their booth even if I'd entered the West gate.)

I stopped at the marketplace once to buy tickets on Thursday and that was it. Strategy didn’t work on the T.

I just found out that Divide and Conquer means something else in the computer programming world. I’m used to it meaning pitting groups against each other and then going in and taking over.

You gotta live in Arizona to get that one. https://arizonawildcats.com

No one. Two of the three medalists were crowd favorites receiving standing ovations throughout their respective shows. The third crowd favorite came in 4th place. Nothing has changed: demand and execution still matters for the gold. A fun show or an intellectual show can equally accomplish that. And to echo MikeRapp’s question, who does decide if a show is fun or not? BD was hardly a crowd favorite this year, but the members seemed to be having quite a bit of fun in the victory run video BD posted on YouTube. And they’ve been getting quite the enthusiastic reaction after Moon River and Tank throughout the season I’m totally with you on deflating the egos of the designers, however. Just read the descriptions of the shows on every corps’ website. Quite pretentious and more often than not does not actually get communicated to the audience. Props to Crown for actually communicating theirs.

IMHO it's judges allowing "taste" to color their interpretations of the sheets. It seems many want to imagine that DCI is evolving into some high art form (deep meanings, intellectual underpinnings, etc...) when it is and always will be movement, spinning, and music on a football field. But you hear many designers talk about their designs as if they were approaching "broadway productions". Sorry to deflate the egos of so many but it's just band. I though Crown's production this year was a big slap to that mindset. It was more about excellence and entertainment and far less about the pretentious "depth of design" that some would have us believe is "high art". It was REFRESHING to see a program who's intent was (1) showcase the excellence of the members (2) engage and entertain the audience. Moreover an honest read of the sheets would reveal that you can reward such a design as it's meeting all the criteria on paper. Finally the performers are given product that is just FUN to perform. Who decided drum corps should no longer be fun for both members and the audience?

Corps do have to be nonprofits, which means they are tax-exempt, and (in general terms) the tradeoff is that legally any profits made have to go back into the organization, and not paid out to shareholders etc. (Drum corps generally don't have much in the way of profits anyways, so it's normally not an issue.) Anyways, to answer your question, nonprofits still can be run like for-profit corporations, and all of the big ones tend to be. In drum corps, many/most of them now have a Board of Directors (required) who hires a CEO/Executive Director to run the overarching organization, to each performing group under them (DCI, WGI, youth symphony, what have you) having their own director that reports to the CEO/ED. So in Phantom's case, the Corps Director only has to worry about running Phantom Regiment and not all of the other things that the actual nonprofit corporation does. Mike

i am. which means i like to keep 50% of everything i own so i can keep watching 😂

It reminds me of Las Vegas hotels and how they make you walk through the casino to get to the hotel, hoping you’ll drop some cash in the slots. 😂

I also don't think that BD isn't winning fair and square. That staff knows what they are doing and the kids are incredible performers. Their shows check every box they need to to win. This year was well deserved for BD. Might not have been everyone's cup of tea, but they performed the hell out of their show and deserved the gold.

Very true. In our case, we purposely wanted to sponsor an individual, not a fund.

Now that’s a formula!

One must also consider "The Emperor's New Clothes" on how it relates and the explanation of said design.

it's mind boggling with 20 wins they haven't had a 3peat yet

No harm in putting ideas out here. I know how you feel. I still have a disagreement or three about how DCI structures their tours. One thing I have learned, though, is that the "rut" you speak of is not just a rut. It is the single most carefully analyzed, planned, structured, developed, debated, re-developed and revamped rut in all of DCI operations. The whole tour schedule is created in a process that spans more than the 12 months you would think it would. Where shows are held, what sequence of locations makes logical tours, when certain focus shows are scheduled to coincide with music industry conventions, what venues are chosen, who partners with whom to run each event, how many shows each corps does... all these choices are made based on dozens of factors that are closely monitored and/or negotiated far in advance. That is one reason why they can publish the tour schedule in November - because they already have it developed and agreed upon in September. Over time, that rut could shift. It would just take more than a couple of stars aligning to make a sufficiently compelling case for the change. Now you are speaking my language.

Great points. Moon River balled was unimpressive off the bat and then it just came together. My first few viewings were on Flo in multicam and I had a hard time understand it. Then I switched to just high cam and what a difference. It was night and day. Then I saw them live at DALR (my only show).

What was Phantom 2008?

I don’t know what it is but I completely agree with the time period. 2016 was the last year I absolutely loved one of their shows. That said, this year is the show I have liked the most since then, so maybe they are moving in the right direction.