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When Ike Jackson himself is captured on a video making wildly inappropriate comments to HS students, then IMO the jury is not still out. The one video alone should have resulted in him being released from Ayala at least. As for the Mandarins, if their admin sees that video, plus the weight of the other reported commentary, then hopefully they do the right thing.

I am having a flashback. It was just 14 months ago that a quintet of protected classes (recited twice) and the name Darcie Aungst were all over a show design announcement. Now it is an "equality and inclusion committee". Inclusion? Really? And of all times, this moment of maximum irony? Drum corps WAS a truly inclusive activity, once upon a time. Now, it is unapologetically focused on being an advanced-placement summer camp for experienced alumni of the scholastic marching arts activities, which themselves are based largely in affluent suburbia. Drum corps can no longer even create the pretense of being "inclusive" toward the inexperienced and/or at-risk youth that they used to routinely train from scratch back in the day. And now, the activity faces its own economic challenges - some of which are of its own making. Forgive me if I do not hold my breath waiting to see how drum corps renounces its expensive ways, and instead returns to prioritizing outreach to the socioeconomically underprivileged. Notice that the poor are not one of the groups selected for greater opportunity and inclusion in these virtue signaling exercises.

Frankly, at this point, I really do not care. I am more concerned about whether or not the activity on which I grew up, the activity that made me the man I am, will survive. When the dust settles, what and/or whom will be left? This pandemic has forced me to rethink things that are important, and leave behind all the traditional thinking. I will learn to enjoy life more and savor the little things. I just hope drum corps will still be one of those things I'm able to enjoy.

From the outside looking in, it seems to me that some people's insistence on using the term costume instead of uniform is an attempt to disparage and discredit the merits and aesthetic value of modern day uniforms. Essentially, they don't like it, so it needs to be given a term that they perceive as more degrading.

I reported to several sources and nothing was done. I was threatened and had to get my attorney involved. I definitely don’t feel responsible that this was person was allowed to continue in drum corps for several more years. The only one who listened was Tricia Nadolny. If she’s not a hero, I don’t know who is.

You know, though, he himself posted the peanut butter video on instagram. Seems to me, that would be damning enough, even without Kelley Ho’s post.

I'd like for people to watch the video in the following link. It made the rounds on twitter and was deeply moving to me. One may think that this is completely different because it's a father and son, the son being younger than most kids in HS marching band. This is true. But I post this because the father's approach to training (IMO) is exactly right. Even with the most successful band/indoor programs, there will be kids each and every year who are new and they struggle. Some don't know how to handle it because it is, in a sense, an emotional overload. This video resonates with me because I've experienced it many times as a teacher working with struggling students. As a teacher who knows that introducing advanced technique to kids who have never done this kind of thing before is challenging and requires the proper approach from the very beginning. Setting realistic goals. Yes, being critical because there are so many details, but not to the point of crushing their spirits. And rewarding and praising their efforts when they demonstrate certain levels of achievement. And often even when they fail because you know that it's only a matter of time before they do get it. Being strict is fine, but only when you know they're ready to take that step. If you lay the proper groundwork on day one with a positive and supportive attitude, you build a level of trust with the students that means everything. Don't get me wrong, I think it's important to have a disciplined approach to instruction and rehearsals. Discipline is not a punishment. It's a means to an end. But discipline which leads to verbal and emotional abuse and establishing an environment of fear and anxiety, especially with kids at this age, is a recipe for disaster. Even it it wins you a big shiny trophy that will gather dust in a trophy case somewhere.

I chimed in on 1999, so I might as well for 2000 as well. It was my age out year and I think we were all ready to move on from '99. Almost the entire brass staff was new and was Gino's first year. When we were told we were playing Disney, the first reaction was "Oh, great...". But then we found out what it really was. From the moment we heard it, we were all in. There was a completely different vibe that entire year. Gino's approach was absolute night and day from what we dealt with in 99. The overall summer was much more enjoyable. If not for '99, I don't think I would have appreciated 2000 as much. One of the most memorable performances for me was actually early in the season... I believe it was Normal, IL. It was mostly a band crowd. That crowd went absolutely bananas and we ate it up. I just remember almost everything we did they screamed and cheered for. I felt like a rock star haha. I was bummed that we weren't using G bugles as I really loved the sound, but embraced the move to Bb. (Many seem to forget that BD was also Bb in 2000) The instruments were obviously brand new, so that certainly was an improvement. I know many didn't like the sound of the trumpets, and as a trumpet player I understand. I was playing 2nd so I like to blame it on the leads haha. The 2nds were nails (Tek will agree to that!). As for Finals, it definitely wasn't our best show. While coming off the field in 99 felt like magic, 2000 did not quite feel that same energy. I don't think any of us expected that outcome, especially since the previous year had also ended in a tie. Brandt knew that the result would make people angry and his attempt to make it less so only made it more confusing. At the time I thought he just may have forgotten to announce 2nd place, but when he added "..and the Cavaliers" I knew the fans were NOT going to be happy and they weren't. Once the shock had subsided I congratulated the Cavies as well and they did the same for us. They seemed to be just in as much shock as we were. We were both champs (although we were the only undefeated corps that year). The cool part was that we each got to do an encore. We went into the stands and cheered for them and when it was our turn they did the same for us. It was a great night.

Surprised by some of the sour grape comments from a couple of the commentators; “horrible intonation”, “rudimental drums”, “nebules drill”, “penalties for placing tymps on the ground” (that didn’t happen). Still bitter after 48 years, I see. Whatever. We beat their corps. We knew we were doing the show of our lives after Ritual Fire Dance. We didn’t know we had won until we were back on the bus because it started pouring. A corps mom with wet mascara running down her face came over to our bus screaming “WE WON, WE WON”!!! My parents had divorced the previous fall, my mother died of breast cancer that spring. I was the second youngest member of the corps and upon hearing the news I covered my head with my cadet and sobbed for a very long time. Thank you Drum Corps for the wonderful upbringing and memories!

I certainly wouldn’t want to lose my sense of taste. Though I guess I could always become a modern DCI show designer.

Speaking as a 60 year old dinosaur, I have no problems with the concept of the costumes of today. Having spent the last 42 years of my life following/marching with/teaching/following BAC I will say I have always loved the classic red white and black look. And who could forget those rifle unis of the 70s with the black pants and boots and the white Waldos? But times change. The only risk with the program centric costumes is that they can be hit or miss. I liked the Wicked Games look (which was really a hybrid of the traditional and the thematic). I was not a huge fan of the SOS costumes ( a thought shared by many of the members) but I loved the GOLIATH costumes. Ultimately, they need to be work for the members. And no, we had nothing like the level of body movement responsibility back in the day like the kids have now. One last thing....somebody delicately hinted that "most" boys aged 17-21 would not want to be seen in the spandex type costumes. You are wrong. These kids would be horrified if you asked them to wear what we wore. At one point in Boston's history, they wore YELLOW satin tops with red shakos and BLUE plumes. Taste and preferences have lot to do with timing, wouldn't you say? At this point of uncertainly, I just hope there is a 2021 season to look forward to. What the corps including Cadets wear or how they accessorize is the least of my concerns. I truly hope and pray we never ever hear each other saying something like "Remember when we used to go to drum corps shows?"

I believe this is why nothing ever changes, because it gets buried, just like Santa Clara and Cavies alumni buried their brewing stories of abuse. Besides, the accuser posted publicly on her Facebook page, because she felt she had no other recourse and I know exactly how she feels.

I marched drum corps from 64-72. I also taught HS bands at varying positions from 1971 through 2017. People like Jackson do not belong teaching students who are basically 14-18 years old, IMO. As a band director, if I had somehow had him on my staff I would have read him the riot act about his behavior with my band, just based on the video. If he did not adjust his approach he would have been gone. However.... A lot of the reaction here is because we have read about his behavior in Reddit and Instagram, and this is one small component, not to mention a video of him at Ayala that was removed from Instagram. If you just saw the video in this thread, you might say the guy is rude and boorish, but that is about it. Look at this video as the tip of a huge iceberg. There is no way this guy should be working with young people in any way, shape or form reviewing the entirety of what has been posted. That includes band, drum corps and winter percussion.

Short-term forecast for this thread: This afternoon - Stormy This evening - Continued periods of stormy Tomorrow's forecast - Closed

thank goodness rational adults in the org are acknowledging there's been a problem for decades. that doesn't take being woke, just being a real human being who acknowledges that people with experiences different from their own do in fact exist.

Seriously the article says that Cadets will try to make sure everyone feels a part of the corps (aka included) and only thing you get is sexual orientation. I read it as checking that no one is shunned, threatened, harassed, etc, etc for any reason.

More from the Mandarins:

oh i agree. how many issues did we raise on here? Moody and Atchison i know sure, i brought up Atchison and Hop himself came in and crapped all over it...and people crapped on me. then the Inquirer story hits and Atchison quietly disappears

I think there were people who contacted WGI at the time of the hall of fame induction and they said there was nothing they could do about it. I saw it on Twitter, I think. i can’t find it now but I’m not surprised. They take down posts pretty quickly because I think they receive threats.

I just want to make one thing clear about the video I posted that people are referencing. I didn't post that video with the intent to point out inappropriate behavior in the way he interacted with his students; I posted it solely for the reaction by the drum captain after that clip. While it's not exactly how I would provide feedback to a group of teenagers, there was nothing explicitly terrible about that clip. The drum captain's reaction after that scene is what I wanted to highlight. Given a lot of the claims that have been made via those other Instagram posts, the drum captain's reaction to a simple question of "What do you think about Ike Jackson?" is a fairly telling response that made me think a lot more about the fact that the Mandarins' drum major may not have been dealing with an isolated event. That young man's response makes it clear that he and his peers have had to deal with some similar issues.

She has a posting on Facebook too, publicly... so it would appear that was not intended to be private.

The guy would never have lasted in any band I have taught since my first in 1971. I don't blame the students at all; he is part of the staff hired by the band director. None of the directors I have worked with over time would have put up with him, and neither would I when I was a director. Each season I would tell our kids something like this before competitions: "There are three things that determine our score and placement. 1) How well we perform; 2) how well the other bands perform and 3) what the judges think. We as a band only control number 1), so go out there and perform your best show for yourselves." Edit: I will say I saw band staff members from other bands over the years that behaved like Jackson in the video.

i saw stuff breaking on instagram the other day and i started counting down. Plus the DCI ####ery twitter page had to rebrand and remove posts because someone threatened to sue after posts of their past behavior come to light. whats happening in the marching arts is heartwarming to see todays kids aren't putting up with the #### anymore, and it's spilling over into every day life.

Ok fine. I see the OT police are here. i don’t know if you have conversations, but they often veer in different directions. At least, we were still talking about drum corps and not Rona. 🙄

Get everyone to wear a mask, but even that simple step is too controversial.

::hiccup::

Statues to traitors, a large number of which were put up in the Jim Crow era specifically as part of a program meant to intimidate Black Americans, should be removed via proper local procedures rather than being torn down by mobs. (Vandalism and other destruction of property are deplorable, unless you're stealing a company's tea and dumping it in the harbor because the taxes imposed by the government are too low, undercutting you and preventing you from making a profit on the tea you've been smuggling.) And yeah, there were some dumb examples of over-exuberance, with even statues of people like Grant being knocked over. As for banning books, you said you were worried about free speech. I pointed out some very egregious recent examples of attacks on free speech. I'm glad to hear that you agree with me. And I imagine that when you were talking to others about your free speech concerns, you mentioned such lawsuits as examples of the kind of thing that bothered you.

My ONLY year in Jr corps....soooooo close to taking it all! This was, believe it or not, the first SCV ever had even a share of the brass title! My thoughts on the top 12: VK: Fun show...was very glad to have 1/3rd of the top 12 be from California! STILL ###### at Bob Briske for taking the deck chairs away...asshat. 27th: The only time I ever saw them, and they DON'T play Danny Boy! Drum line gave us a good run....we only beat them by 1/10th. Crossmen: The capes were strange. Great show....liked it so much i stole -- er -- creatively acquired the closer for the student corps in Air Force tech school, although I graduated before we really had a chance to learn it. Freebasers -- uh -- Freeloaders -- urk -- Flearanchers -- AAIIIEEE -- FREELANCERS!: They were "Live, from Sacramento" and had a good groove to their show.The first time we saw the hornline throwing around horns, we quailed....until we found that it was guard members doing it,and they were old p/r horns. Then again, BD babied it's horns (the only time I EVER handled my horn bare handed in my corps career was in 2007 with the BD/SCV alum group, and even then, only in performance....felt so strange oterwise), so EVERY time Freelancers went to parade rest and smashed their horns into their chest buckles, we cringed en masse. Cavaliers: Last year for "Pines of Rome" and the beginning of the improvement that would finally make them a contender. Ozark was a fun drum feature. Suncoast Sound: WHAT. A. BRASS LINE!!!! Seriuously, those guys blew me away! A corps that is much missed. I REALLY felt bad for them at Whitewater prelims, tho...unis heavy double-breasted wool! At least WE had a cutaway and dickey in front...heat was not an issue (the dust from that dead-grass field, tho,,,) Spirit of Atlanta: A good solid show...and SUCH a long bus ride home after the show 😉 One of my drum line friends in tech school said he tried out for SOA's snare line...didn't make it, and was offered a cymbal slot -- which he declined. After hearing my tour stories, he spent the rest of the time i knew him regretting it. Madison Scouts: What can you say but pure POWER on a football field. Waltz of the Mushroom Hunters, such a great chart....and dat closer.... Phantom Regiment: Heh....we were hearing out west that this was Regiment's year. WRONG thing to tell BD! Was quite pleased with Armenian Dances, since I'd played it in college (and actually had the duet that the sops did). I remember a longish break to clean up the TP they and the crowd threw at the end! Santa Clara Vanguard: Beat us a LOT out west...and most of our meetings went their way until after Whitewater, although BD was happy SCV won that night if WE didn't. My ALL TIME fave push. They were held back a little by a LOT of rookies -- as a large chunk of the vets were with the Olympic band for the L.A. Games -- and a show underwritten for their skill level. All the more ironic, then, that they took a share of the Ott for the very first time. Blue Devils: What can I say? My all time fave show (duh!). Coming from a HS/college band environment that was squads of 4, face direction of march, never a slide or backwards, no passthroughs, mostly the same step size, music on lyres, etc....let me tell you, it was a STEEEEEEEEEP learning curve for an uber-rook like me! I lived in fear of being cut frequently for those first few months (all in my head...i was never actually threatened with being cut). Absolutely the best year of my life....and our finals show run was the 2nd best DAY of my life (surpassed on by my wedding day 7 years later...and I'm still with her). Of course, the elation of feeling like a GOD at the end soon ended thanks to... Garfield Cadets: *tap tap....is this thing on? it is? Good. ahem...* YOU'VE GOT MY RING!! My prrreeeccciiioouuuusssss.... Nasty Cadetses! Should'a poisoned the beef stroganoff that night at the border... Come on, now....anyone on this board who knows me KNEW it was coming. You'd probably think something was wrong with me if I DIDN'T say it! I'm done now. Ok...not really! Despite all my #####ing, pissing, and moaning about that ^%#&#ing 1/10th, I have ALSO admitted that this was one of my fave programs....and it took one of the all time GREATS to beat us. I know Bonnie Ott should be my gold standard for mello players, but I didn't march in her era. I marched against Barbara Maroney, and SHE is my mello gold standard. I Have a Love....absolutely magnificent...and that last 19 second note was rock solid. Zingali drill, spectacular brass work...not bad for a corps with unis older than the kids who wore them! A great GREAT year for the activity. The camera coverage, however....ugh.

My spidey sense went to 💯.

That video made me uncomfortable.

i generally try to stay out of the DCP medical analysis and expertise discussion except for occasional snide remarks, and i normally don't say a lot in general when it comes to COVID, but the schools reopening does concern me greatly. i have a 3rd grader to be and i am married to a teacher. say one of them is positive. then a whole class gets shuts down...and their families, and maybe anyone they came into contact with. possibly bus drivers, school admin and other workers and aides..and other kids. getting elementary kids to distance and keep masks on all day? yeah, good ####### luck with that, especially if the kid is on the spectrum. i get the pros of kids being in school....my kid is among the few i know that actually thrived with the virtual stuff. I know for many kids it's their safe space and a place to get needed services. But one kid getting it and God forbid getting seriously ill...oh jesus. the damage to other kids, and teachers. same thing if a teacher gets it. i remember in 7th grade my history teacher died suddenly...we were a mess for a week. Now imagine elementary kids. i feel bad for administrators, no matter what they do, people will trash them and get all political, plus politicians on top of that. Oh and good luck finding subs, there's already a shortage but since we as a selfish ######## nation couldn't come up with a unified cohesive non politically driven strategy from day, we are doomed to force things that will just make it worse. schools are petri dishes of germs to begin with. This pushing to repoen is just a disaster waiting to happen, and i guarantee, if something were to happen to my kid or wife, any ######## pushing their political "open up who cares if they die" ######## is going to regret ever meeting me

The best thing I can do right now is turn off my phone and walk away.

Yeah, but they were doing other things when they came up with that estimation.

yeah the old director had a special way about it

I’m reading it as the corps will not put up with exclusive or bullying behavior by any individual member. That’s not being “woke” that’s saying they’re not going to put up with anyone’s crap that could harm another member or the corps itself. Had the same thing where I worked and so do many other places. And in this overly legalese world you have to put down in writing what you wouldn’t put up with. Otherwise some clod will use it as a loophole “you didn’t tell me that...”

But it’s “the biggest threat to this activity we love”.lol I guess a global pandemic with no vaccine that shut down the season means nothing.

Joe Paterno and others were forced to resign but drum corps...nothing to see here!

so abuse was ok two years ago when they found out but not ok now? interesting. WGI is out to protect themselves and their income streams (much like a number of drum corps)... not the students.

I think of my parents And grandparents living through the Great Depression and World War II and I feel like an ### for complaining about this. Come to think of it, my grandparents lived through the Spanish Flu!

Can we maybe not demean people in a thread about not demeaning people?

Hell, yeah. I’d get in a dust up, too. That’s straight-up bullying. The young woman had to go into therapy. Grrrr the momma in me is coming out. 🐅

Terrible. And still, STILL people are ignored.

The sad thing is the DM & others had complained privately to Corps management, & nothing (apparently) happened. It had to go public for action to occur.

Lack of brain cells in DCI is not a new phenomenon. DCI meetings are like this:

Corps D'etat...

maybe comes. still a lot of testing to do. if a vaccine is available i guarantee it'll be mandatory for every kid, and teachers...and probably most health insurers too. what is safe is not sending my wife and kid into an already existing germ factory in a pandemic. we can control us, but we can't control everyone else, and too many people are more worried about plitical viewpoints and liberty than ####### common sense and courtesy for the world around them.

If you die of it what the #### difference does the percentage mean.... sick of this frigging word and number games with peoples lives

Y'all can @ me all you want but I do not see how DCI can move forward until 2022 at the earliest. WGI 2021 will not happen. not enough time to put a season together. And I don't see how any state or program can fiel;d a marching band in 2020. For those quoting stats, just stop. While kids might not be in the high risk category, their friends and loved ones are, and they can be carriers. The medical experts agree that sending kids back to school before we have a vaccine can cause a super spreader event. Look, I know this hurts, but we'll get through it. DCI is going to need to make some tough decisions. I know it's way too early to cancel a 2021 season, but realistically I think it's highly likely that's what happens. And if it does, how does this impact the activity? How do we recover? And will there be interest?

Got a little misty here.