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For several years my delight with Drum Corps has been waning. My first experience with Drum Corps was in 2004 at the invitation of Dr. Thomas Root. It was electrifying for me. The sound had majesty, grace, and purity. I went to the souvenir trailers and purchased every CD I could lay my hands on. The quality of the recordings were much more variable than quality of the Corps on the field. None of the CDs were electrifying to me. Then for many years I endeavored to record all those elements, with various success. Along the way I provided yearly support for the Ogden Corps Encore Show. I recall clearly when I was faced with the first instance of canned show program, I was incredulous. In subsequent years the shows got even more canned and more amplified - rather than a race to have great musicians it was a race for expensive mixer boards, equalizers and speaker systems. As a side note there was also a race to incorporate props and scenery. During the last show in Ogden, I listened carefully - I was not electrified. I was electrified during some of the rehearsals that didn’t have the amplification running. It could be that there is a cumulative million+ hours of devotion within the members of a corps, and then all that majesty, grace, and purity is stuffed through a PA system. Now I have lost any interest in attending or supporting. I don’t like listening to amazing musicians through a vitiating PA system. Moreover I feel guilty about any of my efforts, donations, or support that subsidizes PA systems. It might be valid to compare the use of PA systems to steroid use, for my taste it sounds bad and feels like cheating. I sorrow for those million hours of musician devotion that I don’t hear with majesty, grace and purity. Ray Kimber, Ogden Utah

Ugghh! You just MAKE me want to correct you! EVERYONE else besides you can believe differently and you're STILL the only one in the room who's right. Right? But... Yes, of course. And it's judged and rewards points and sponsorship and demand from future MM's can determine success or failure. This is not artistic expression like Caravaggio or Bernini. Who's this? A distant cousin twice-removed, maybe, to this guy? (Don't hate me, I couldn't resist.) And thanks for being specific in your use of 'you'. That said, you miss the point. The Michelangelo or Caravaggio "Art" that people see today IS the art in its original form. Sure, each's artistic talent and maturity morphed in their lives, but fans still witness and experience it live, as the art was when it was created. I exaggerate for effect and point - I'm not interested in G-horns and carrying tymps at all. My point is that one can put Mr. Angelo () up against almost any modern artist and his work still holds up to judgement of peers and fans. Not so in drum corps, where all things older than last year are banished as too old to repeat, and increasingly, "down-rewarded" for NOT being avant-guard enough. You can't compare a '75, '85, '95, '05, or even '15 show to this year, "today's design". I've overdone my point. One simply can't compare "artistic expression" when it's rewarded real, tangible financial benefit for "designing to the sheets" now, can one? And especially so when one totals the potential financial gain that being a great designer can bring to the design process. Michelangelo wasn't "painting to the sheets" in the Sistine Chapel, was he? Performance art, yes. Maybe you meant that, and I'd agree with "Performance Art". In performance art, I appreciate all eras and I wish that the eras that I particularly like(d) were ABLE to be judged and rewarded as much as the current champion so I might have the chance again to see that design again. But, alas, I'm asked to ban my appreciation for older design to digital downloads while expected to pay significant sums to see current design only, and little else, stand a hooters chance in hel11 of contending for the financial gain of being a top-contender. The Arms Race of A&E, prop, design, staff, and tour expense all in the name of "A-E" is bankrupting corps, destroying the tour, and is unsustainable. (Do I have to say "IMO" on a forum board?) Excuses for "Artistic Expression" are the fodder of designers and, run amok, the activity can't keep up. The Artistic Expression that puts real, demise-level pressure on corps organizations to participate, and do it safely, only in the realm of a $750,000 (or TWICE THAT!) annual budget screams for someone to wrap duct tape around "Artistic Expression's" head and shut him up so the activity can catch its collective financial breath! How, in God's name, are any of the corps expected to build any sort of financial safety net when it takes every, single penny every year just to comply with what "The Sheets" are rewarding?

Adults should be allowed to do what they want on their free time. Not around the kids and nothing that will prevent them from driving, teaching, cooking, directing or any normal daily function.

See, there's so much you could have said without punching him in the nose in the process. Daggers are not necessary. He has his opinion - you've been trumpeting your incredulous attitude towards legacy fans for a long time. You're consistent, if nothing else. Your opinion is as valid as his, but he didn't jab you, personally, or anyone else in posting his feelings. I value his opinion more as a result. "The older you get, the smarter I'll get" said every father and "Legacy Fan".

He already been there and done that with the Blue Knights. He even recorded that brass line with a special microphone setup on the DSD format. Absolutely stunning recording with ZERO compression and prodigious dynamics.

As you may have guessed this is a photo of those drum majors present for the 85th Anniversary Memorial Mass. The current drum major is uniformed. Several of the others post here occasionally. When one sings the corps hymn, each corps member places his/her hand on the shoulder of the nearest member as a act of solidarity. If you watch when the corps members sing, they even shake each other's shoulder at a certain part of the hymn. Some have debated whether these men have been balanced, but all have agreed they have been extraordinary. P.S. Top photo is 1948 corps at Garfield Park for homecoming.

Heck... I have a glass of water and I'm stopping two times in a two-hour trip. Drinking much better beer now. One or two is more than enough. Oktoberfests and pub walks excepted. The days of drinking Bud-Miller-Coors swill (and that is a charitable description) are long gone. What the heck was I thinking back then. LOL

When dudes treat women like objects for hundreds of years, your being offended at their putting women at the forefront of the activity is now secondary.

We I believe are most of us involved in the activity today. WE, as in most bitd , including me felt we were so superior and made fun of the band geeks, learned 1st hand where our bread was buttered starting in the late 80s early 90s. Our own snobbery wasn't helpful, respectful or true by then. If you want to define major league is another thing. It is our branding BUT there are some corps that would not be considered that if we actually put some guidelines or parameters attached to that assessment or branding. There was also another side to this . Many band directors felt Drum Corps ruined serious music students and some forbid their students or tired , who wanted to march drum corps. Im sure there are still some of them today as there are some who still feel superiority within the many facets of our activity somehow actually makes them superior and have the right to look down on this so called other world that actually feeds ours. JMO

He who dies with the most toys wins or last one still standing wins? Ugh

If we could combine the downtown Williamsport atmosphere (safe streets, several good places to eat/drink, etc.) with the Rochester stadium, and no hill, we might have a winner. Then again... if my grandmother had wheels, she'd be a car.

I’ll file it under people complaining about people complaining..... lol

Yeah... sorry 'bout that, bit of an inside joke. I knew Mike, Terri, and Jim would know who I was talking about. Tony Schlecta was the guy who ran the VFW Nationals drum corps championship for many years. He also was the announcer a number of those years... and had a tendency to, shall we say, imbibe a bit while doing the PA work. So... as the show went on, his announcements became more and more interesting. LOL.

This, and what Jim said. Not a huge fan of some of the stuff going on with modern-day drum corps... but hey, it's a different era, different game. Overall, still a fan. If that ever changes, I hope I go out with the class shown by the OP here.

And years later... lot of people who like the current changes will gripe about the changes to come. If they are still around.... same as it every was.... same as it ever was...

This next is a "proposal" Janual, if I remember right.

I hit back with "How much money did you ask for?"

I can absolutely understand that. I think a few of the things that I've done to keep myself excited about DCI and DCA is that I: 1. Limit the number of shows I go to 2. Don't follow the scores at ALL until just before Prelims. I watch the corps but I just don't care about the scores. 3. Introduce new people to drum corps. I don't have kids. But I've gotten my girlfriend involved and she LOVES drum corps. I think it's natural that if you marched and then had kids that marched (plus the volunteer work,) you just get burned out on it. I'm going to try to do some volunteer work this summer with a corps. It's been almost 9 years since I was anything but a fan.

How stupid is it in 2019 that we still have people wading into a discussion group to tell others not to discuss something.

Heh.... I would usually take Thursday and Friday off before DCA's on Labor Day weekend... and when I was heading out on Wednesday I'd tell my co-workers I was off to "drum corps fantasy camp."

You answered your own assertion. Drum and Bugle corps used to be different because of instrumentation. Yes, it was a type of marching band but different in a very unique way. Just like a Drum and Fife Corps err marching band or bagpipes. When there is NO difference WHY get butt hurt over calling it a marching band now? Seriously, DCI is just a circuit of marching bands. What used to be true is not any longer. Word games do not change the facts. Just like you could point to the Marine Drum and Bugle corps and SEE and HEAR a distinct difference. This whole mindset that there are no differences and never have been is well...insane and lacks any real facts to support itself in realities. I don't really care but the idea that we can't have subsets of criteria to differentiate sub-species of a greater whole IS asinine. I can't even imagine living life where you couldn't do that...and have a firm grasp on reality.

If the activity stayed the same as it was in the 1970's, we wouldn't be talking about this today. In fact, there wouldn't be a DCP or Drum Corps World! As much as older people want it to be that way, if the change didn't come when it did (2 valve, three valve, Bb, electronics) then we wouldn't be talking about drum corps! Be gratetful that we can still be here to talk about the activity and reminisce. As much as I love hearing the old shows, the sounds that these kids today produce are so much better!

and the hill at Allentown

honestly the loss of sound i most miss is being able to hear tenors and bass in a dome

Bluecoats Dan Delong 2000-2003 I believe

As has been the case going back pre-DCI. So nothing new there.

Well the apologists will say it’s all about Finals Week. Of course flip side is what that says about local shows and people who go to them.

It’s important to regularly consider new locations for Championships well ahead of needing an alternative. No problem there. My observation is, at this time, DCA has yet to maximize revenue potential at Williamsport. Certainly, the weather hasn’t helped. But, it appears too many seats are going empty regardless. The advance sale this time was absolutely dreadful. Primary focus for the next two years should be change things up in marketing Williamsport. Clearly, to me anyway, Labor Day Weekend no longer works. Also, I believe, ticket pricing is too high to attract new fans. Time to be creative with the two outer seating areas.

More photos from Most Holy Name, 10/13/19 via Gary Wada (with Msgr. Reilly, pastor and Deacon Scotty McGarry, Cadet alum and Cadets historian) Gail Balls, lead Soprano, '77-'79 and note the stripes returned too for Cadet E. Jenkins!

Yes, the York White Roses-late 60's. Lot of fun and good times and good people.

Heck... I got drug-tested at a driving job I had, and they even asked beforehand if I had eaten anything in the past day or two with poppy seeds in it. I think back to my years growing up in NJ, when those great seeded hard rolls from the bakeries there were often my breakfast on weekends. I would have flunked every test. LOL.

school....a common theme it seems no matter which side of the pond you're on

I suggest a few people should open their own forum to take their war offline and out of our ears. Grow up!

I guess the classic “made for the dome” moment that pops in my mind is Troop’s infinity chord.

Minnesota Brass Inc. (MBI) and Inver Hills Community College of Inver Grove Heights, Minn., have embarked on discussions aimed at a music-education partnership that would further their respective missions. “We are thrilled about the potential of a long-term relationship with Inver Hills Community College,” said Katy Matuzak, Minnesota Brass executive director. “MBI has a strong […] View the full article

Rte. 1 coming home from Brenda's house in PA instead of I-95 is my choice, for much the same reason. Several well-placed Royal Farms and Wawa stores along the way. Plus... the traffic on I-95 in Maryland on summer Sundays in particular... a parking lot. Rte. 1 is virtually stress-free. LOL.

The Corps Encore Show ran for years before I even knew anything about drum corps. At some point the Ogden show failed and there were no shows in Ogden for a few years. My connections at the university, the community, my staff and my money were used to restart the Ogden show. My contributions might have been counterproductive, minor or even unnecessary to the re-start and continue the Ogden show, I don't know enough to make that call. What I do know is that myself and (paid) staff from my company were the first ones waiting for the arrival of the first corps, and the last person to leave. This is true even when some some corps arrived days early in Ogden, and true even when some corps stayed some days after the show. Year-round we tried to identify and fulfill various wants and needs of the corps when they were in Ogden. I don't know if anyone on DCP has any first-hand experience with the Ogden show during my involvement. I was intrigued with the possibility of capturing the sheer magic of the live acoustic performance in a recording. My attitude about any recording is that it is like trying to can/bottle sushi, you can't do it. But there is a difference between pet food and Albacore so I wanted to at least have recordings that failed in new ways. I have some wonderful friends in the audio industry, both on the consumer and the professional side who assisted me. I did post about those early recording experiences, called IsoMike here on DCP, I kinda liked some of the results. YMMV Technically we pushed the envelope (and budget) of every single factor. The last (unreleased) recordings we did are in 4XDSD 4.0 surround. We played back some of those raw master files at various audio shows with systems costing high 6 figures. I don't know if anyone on DCP has ever experienced one of my 4.0 playback demonstrations. I don't know if anyone on DCP were present, in the Ogden recording booth, when we did recordings. Again, I don't know if my recording efforts were counterproductive, minor or even unnecessary. Finally, what does "OP" mean?

cool. Feel better 🙂

I can recall an issue released in July, 1978 that covered DCI East prelims and how no one played “songs” anymore. I think the author was harshest on Phantom, But he had a sickle for everyone including all the corps that today are old school darlings.

Have you considered the possibility that drum corps was already bad in 2004? That was the first year that DCI allowed amplification (of pit instruments and of voice). I had not been following drum corps closely for a few years, but a friend heard about the first "Big, Loud & Live" cinema broadcast, and we attended, only to be shocked and disappointed by the amplified voice in the performances by Crown and others.

I've been very open about the fact that I haven't marched on DCP, open thy eyes (And if you didn't know I didn't, Xandandl will gleefully tell you for me). The reason I got into DCI in the first place is because I had many friends who did march and still have a couple who are still marching. I'm just a couple years past the age limit, I think "well past" is quite a stretch. What I do have, that you don't, is a better insight into the way young marchers (aka my peers) think. A better website design will not make or break the corps (and no one has suggested it would, so I'm not sure why you and Mello Dude are in such an uproar about Kdaddy's very benign statement). But it WILL certainly help the corps' image when prospective marchers, especially those less familiar with DCI, come poking around to see what each corps has to offer

Ah, to be forever seventeen. You are certainly well past marching age. You’ve dodged the question before. But did you ever march? Please take the time and go back to when I’ve criticized the “younger generation”and show me an example. I have expressed a dislike for what currently passes as show design but I’ve never criticized any marching members for their efforts. In the meantime I request you refrain from taking such broad strokes with your psychoanalyst’s paintbrush.

Every corps has a membership contract which is quite specific regarding things like bullying, harassment, poor behavior, hazing, controlled substances, etc. Even though the dreaded reefer is now legal in places like here in Maine, Massachusetts, etc it is still against federal law. Add to this the dimension of corps travelling through the night after each show and crossing through multiple jurisdictions, nobody could fault the organizations for having zero tolerance. As for alcohol, it is not a comparable situation because the drinking age in all 50 states is 21, so if a legal-age member wanted to have a beer on a free night that should pose no liability to the corps as long as there is no stupid behavior which results from it. I'm not a lawyer, but I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express one night.

not always

Las Vegas is in fact building a dome! The skeleton is up!

BAC just announced that ALL winter camps starting in January 2020 will be in Texas instead of Florida. I wonder if that means we'll hear a chorus of "Texas Crusaders" this year instead of "Florida Crusaders". :)

I know it’s cool to hate on Flo, and I’m NOT saying they’re perfect, but it’s probably the best/most affordable option we’re gonna have for watching shows. The Fan Network wasn’t sustainable and if memory serves correctly, the quality wasn’t really all that great there either. Again, I’ll be the first to admit that Flo has #### the bed on a few occasions BUT some of you take the b*tching a little too far. Let’s just be happy we don’t have to settle for watching a vertical Periscope video of a show with Nancy screaming “wooooooooo” every time her child does something cool.

I hope so. Although I am excited to see THIS staff, I am sick of getting enthusiastic just to be disappointed in the end.

I agree. It is disingenuous to say that this year’s show, or most of their shows, are low risk or low demand. That’s the problem with doing something so well that you make it look easy. Old guys like me keep harping on how we miss drill. Well, two of my favorite drill moves this year belong to the BD. And many of my favorite show moments in general (guard, music, etc) came from the BD. My HS age son said I laughed through the whole show, and it was because the show was creative enough to surprise this old guy all the way through. All of that is a testament to a well constructed program that the mm performed the heck out of.

Oh, and for the record, that "Hut hut hut" was the very same Tom Smith of "running from the tunnel" fame at the beginning of the show. He called the audible for most of the season because the form lined up with the drum major making it impossible for most of the form to see the count-off. Tom had the best vantage point.