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I am having a flashback. It was just 14 months ago that a quintet of protected classes (recited twice) and the name Darcie Aungst were all over a show design announcement. Now it is an "equality and inclusion committee". Inclusion? Really? And of all times, this moment of maximum irony? Drum corps WAS a truly inclusive activity, once upon a time. Now, it is unapologetically focused on being an advanced-placement summer camp for experienced alumni of the scholastic marching arts activities, which themselves are based largely in affluent suburbia. Drum corps can no longer even create the pretense of being "inclusive" toward the inexperienced and/or at-risk youth that they used to routinely train from scratch back in the day. And now, the activity faces its own economic challenges - some of which are of its own making. Forgive me if I do not hold my breath waiting to see how drum corps renounces its expensive ways, and instead returns to prioritizing outreach to the socioeconomically underprivileged. Notice that the poor are not one of the groups selected for greater opportunity and inclusion in these virtue signaling exercises.

Short-term forecast for this thread: This afternoon - Stormy This evening - Continued periods of stormy Tomorrow's forecast - Closed

Yeah, but they were doing other things when they came up with that estimation.

yeah the old director had a special way about it

Wow. Twice in one day, you have claimed greater knowledge than myself regarding what I think.

To be honest, this cartoon makes no sense to me. The middle frame represents both equal opportunity and equal outcome. The other two would never happen. If you are tall enough to see over the fence, you would not perch yourself on top of a box, much less seven of them. We all know where this goes next. You will spend your day scouring the Internet for better cartoons. I will spend my day enjoying the opportunities available to me. The two of us have equal opportunity, but will we have equal outcomes?

Is every single decision the Cadets make going to be scrutinized for virtue signalling? Can they just operate a drum corps with good intentions without consistent criticism? They have been through enough. The past few years have been very trying times for them. Please just let the Cadets do what they think is best for the Cadets.

I think #2 needs the greater emphasis. Facing facts is easy when we can each have our own set of them.

Ok my definition of “inclusion”: making sure anyone who joins the group feels welcome and is safe. This means safe from any harassment from group leaders and OTHER MEMBERS of the group. wow such a horrible idea.... sure glad we didn’t have this where I worked... oh wait we did....

Got a little misty here.

I marched in the Scouts in 1985. I will never forget the sound when we came out of the tunnel for finals. The crowd EXPLODED! It was so loud that we could not hear our drum major start the show. You can see this if you watch the video. The back of the horn block actually steps off about two counts after the front of the block! We did recover, but that was rough. The top 12 in 1985 was very strong. Great music and some wonderful performances. The top 4 corps had amazing shows. Truly one of the best years of my life!!

As a society we evolve and we reevaluate. Some of society at least. The danger lies in not being able to do so and to continue to make the same mistakes.

I certainly wouldn’t want to lose my sense of taste. Though I guess I could always become a modern DCI show designer.

First of all, the statement posted by the Cadets refers to "changes that will create a Cadets organization that is more diverse, inclusive, and anti-racist". This goes beyond racism and is an attempt to address many discrimination issues. https://cadets.org/the-cadets-establish-equality-and-inclusion-committee/ Second, the Cadets are not the first organization to make an announcement of this type. Just one year ago this month, the Madison Scouts made the announcement they were adopting an "inclusive membership policy", essentially opening corps membership to ALL genders, including women, trans, and non-binary members. http://www.madisonscouts.org/2019/07/madison-scouts-adopt-inclusive-membership-policy/ The Scouts organization also made an equally important announcement at the beginning of June, affirming their commitment to the Black Lives Matter movement and specific steps they were taking, similar to what the Cadets alluded to in their announcement earlier this month. http://www.madisonscouts.org/2020/06/our-commitment-to-the-black-lives-matter-movement/ Whether announcements like these from the Cadets, Scouts, and other marching arts organizations are simply "virtue signaling", as some have suggested, will depend on what actions take place as a result. If NOTHING changes, then, yes, all we have seen so far is virtue signaling. Considering the Cadets announcement is just a week old, it is way too soon to judge. Action is necessary, however. Sexual harassment and assault is still a major issue the activity has not fully addressed, and not just by the Cadets. Recall that Tricia Nadolny, the reporter who broke the George Hopkins story, assisted by very brave survivors of his assaults, also reported on similar issues taking place at the Oregon Crusaders. Issues which, when left unaddressed outside of ACTUAL virtue signaling by the OC admins, led to the staff resigning from the corps en masse after the 2018 season in protest. The Crusaders may never take the field again as a result. Until real change occurs, they should not as membership safety is definitely questionable in that environment. https://www.inquirer.com/news/a/drum-corp-international-sexual-assault-misconduct-mike-stevens-george-hopkins-cadets-20181213.html Speaking of Tricia Nadolny, she also broke the story on Roman Blenski's actions at Pioneer. Blenski not only endangered the membership ("snitches get stitches") but also racially insulted the Mexican and South African members of the corps. https://www.inquirer.com/philly/news/drum-bugle-corps-pioneer-cadets-george-hopkins-drum-corps-international-dci-20180823.html As for the Cadets, somebody early in this thread mentioned Sara Bowden, a trans non-binary member of the corps from 2016 to 2018. They have posted their tour journals from all three seasons and are very active on Twitter. They have also talked about how, as a member of the brass section leadership, they were openly disrespected by other members due to their gender and orientation, and how the corps administration did nothing to protect them. They were one of the former members who called out the corps on Twitter for their "Pride" tweet, and their experience with the corps is just one example of why this new Cadets policy is necessary. If you are on Twitter, I highly recommend following them. https://twitter.com/broskivafli Finally, the Bluecoats recently posted an episode of their brass podcast where they interviewed Black members and staff and discussed their experiences in the activity. These interviews are just a small sample size of the kind of treatment BIPOC (Black, Indigenous, and People Of Color) still experience in this activity we love so much. https://bluecoats.com/brasspodcast/2020/6/15/9-the-black-experience-in-dci In my capacity as DCP Managing News Editor, I try not to get involved in sensitive discussions like these in the forums because my goal is to inform and make sure the facts are known. Since this discussion came from one of the front page postings I added to the site, I wanted to put forth what I knew and what I thought, along with some background as to how we got to this point and my current perspective. I hope this adds to the discussion.

I submitted a plan to my administration on a standstill, music only model for my "marching" band (Virginia) kids. - Sectionals after school with the kids who are at school that day (1/4 of all kids come Monday, 1/4 Tuesday, 1/4 Wed, 1/4 Thurs, and then a teacher work day Friday to contact kids who can't come to school in person) and one combined rehearsal Thursday nights. - Perform in open air venue in town, open to the public. - Parades (if there are any) They responded with requests for more details on specific logistics on how I'd keep the kids safe. Still working on it. So, FWIW, the schools are allowing us to do this marching band thing as long as we keep the kids safe, at least where I am. This is the perfect opportunity to show our education system that things like marching band don't need football to exist. 🙂

Who cares? Kids aren’t the only ones who are involved with the marching arts

Not trying to start an argument or insult but..... Every Coronavirus case/death IS anecdotal (3m of them) and feeds the data. Difference is if you know someone or not.... As for reading the data.... each week seems like one side or the other... or both changes what numbers are important (cases, death rates, ICU, etc). Just whatever suits their purpose

How's this for generalities , Does it matter? Personally I'm a little sick of hearing stats.especially doubting we get the truth sometimes. Sure they are important BUT for all the statters , Have you sat in front of a Covid unit waiting on results of a loved one? Well I have, twice. Every stat mentioned is a human life period, For those who think our children only have a minimal risk, Is that enough or even a smaller risk worth it? We will sit here and want to cut out a cancer of a bad egg in the activity so there is no risk to not even 1 child, even the smallest yet stats would decide with Covid? Well, the stats of some perv. attacking our child I bet is alot lower and easier to get rid of the monster , hopefully. Also even though we can not protect kids from many things and can not live with fear, with this, which changes daily one has to ask themselves KNOWING there is something deadly or something that could make them very sick. Is not dying the bar we have set with some? One just has to personally ask themselves. If it were God for Bid one of ours personally , can we live with that? One has to ask themselves that because I suppose people will have different feelings. I know it sounds like preaching and maybe it is but all I know is twice I know and saw alot as a loved one went into a Covid unit and me being stopped, it's not a good feeling and so many things go through your head when it happens. For me anyway, I see stats now very different. I know they are or can be important IF honest and not political on any side but I don't see numbers anymore, I see humans .

I only drink on two occasions: when there is COVID-19, and when there isn’t.

My apologies for misunderstanding you. Please do proceed with your noble cause upon supportIng it with evidence that tall people not sharing their boxes with short people is a widespread epidemic in our society.

I would be very surprised if Bobby answered. Maybe a OUIJE board?

I was in Atlanta for a business meeting way back in the late 80's. In a bar/restaurant outside of the city I was having dinner and playing shuffleboard. One woman sitting at the bar overheard me talking, turned to her friend and said "Oh, a d**** Yankee" and went back to her drink. 😀

July 9, 2002, 12:30am ET - Tour Day 47 Ogdensburg, NY → Allentown, PA We had a long day of rehearsal, 8 hours in total today, because we were housed at the show site and performed last in the show. The show was delayed due to rain. As we started our show, it really started to come down and by our ballad, it was absolutely pouring. The harder it rained, the more into the show I became. The crowd also showed their appreciation for the performance we gave under such adverse conditions. It was a fun show and we impressed some people, too. Ogdensburg Crossmen - 82.6 - General Effect, Music Boston Crusaders - 80.3 - Visual Carolina Crown - 75.0 Spirit of Atlanta - 73.8 Kiwanis Kavaliers - 67.45 Magic of Orlando - 83.0 Patriots - 69.65 (Next post is July 13.)

I would say it is a mistake to paint any region with a broad brush. I think I did mention Arkansas after someone referred to it. The only mention of the Deep South I saw I honestly didn’t know what was being said. I grew up in the South, and I can tell you it does hurt on a deep and personal level to hear people make generalizations about it.

Amazed I have to say this... Dissing entire regional populations (i.e. Arkansas, the "T" of Pennsylvania, etc.), or their political/religious views by demographic inference, is exactly the wrong look for a thread about "inclusion". On the other hand, if the goal of regional prejudice is to prove that prejudice is still a problem in society... then, mission accomplished. Carry on.

My favorite cake is "Chocolate Retort," Because it's cake. And it's chocolate. And it's cake. And it's delicious.

Right! Which begs the question of how "urban" and "liberal" became part of the discussion in the first place. But, I also agree that someone from a geography distant from a drum corps may not be in agreement with the societal norms of the community where that drum corps is based and may drive the decision-making of the leadership of the corps. One potential as a result could be that person not getting a feeling of welcome and inclusion into the corps.

I agree. We should not make assumptions about an individual based on where they live or what party they belong or anything else, other than how that individual treats others.

And now some love for the Free Players!

True story: I did not audition for the Cadets colorguard because before auditions, some horn members were discussing on IRC's #drumcorps chat (before hashtags were a thing, this was mid-90's) about the "queers" in the guard and avoiding them in the showers. I didn't want to go through whatever those vets were willing to dish out. The world was a different place then, 25 years ago. As a 16 year old who had never left a small town, I assumed the whole corps felt that way. With some perspective, I now know otherwise and that of course, there would have been an open, accepting environment. Things have changed dramatically since then, but how many trans kids might want to march at the Cadets and not know how to feel using public bathrooms, going into states that have laws preventing them from using the bathroom of their identity? Anyone who has marched with black people will know what they face when corps travel through racist areas. I applaud Denise and the Cadets for just opening up a space to have these conversations and to attract talent by welcoming them and learning to avoid what might cause them not to show up. It can only help them!

Please don’t be hostile. I will leave it to the mods to decide whether your other post was political in nature, since you think it is so funny to have made it.

where is the attack? i said nothing that was attacking

No Crown 2020, but this version showed no mercy. Electric run during 2016. Oh, my! One of the greatest shows ever! Now, on to Inferno, ‘14, ‘13, ‘12, ‘11, ‘10, ‘09. Sure miss Crown. C’mon back soon!

Can you make your point about not disrespecting people based on what group they belong to without disrespecting people based on what group they belong to?

Sure, and if we all trace our roots back far enough, we'll find immigrants, some legal, some not. Some would go so far as to say earth's original settlers were interplanetary aliens. Considering some of the folks I have met in Drum Corps, I can believe that.

First Rule of Acquisition applies.

So does every organization that looks into their practices about inclusion suddenly a SJW and “woke”? What about groups that have updated their sexual harassment policy and procedures. That falls under inclusion and making sure all people in the group feel non threatened.

Always thought of Drum Corps as more progressive than the rest of society in general. We obviously knew who the kids of color were, who the gay kids were (for the most part), and it wasn't a "thing" since we all focused on a common goal. If Garfield feels they have an issue that needs to be addressed (and it's not just virtue signaling), well, good for them!

I was on the board it's a thankless, consuming job.

because discrimination exists within the activity.

But it’s “the biggest threat to this activity we love”.lol I guess a global pandemic with no vaccine that shut down the season means nothing.

1 whole post for this to become a cesspool. shocker.

I don't want to minimize your experiences. But it is not a good idea to make policy based on anecdotes instead of the best available data. And there are very significant secondary effects to these COVID policy decisions that must be accounted for. For example, are the elementary aged children of single parents going to stay at home by themselves and log into zoom (or whatever) while their parents go to work? Suicides are up tremendously, substance abuse has increased, etc Somewhere, there is a tipping point in which the number of lives saved is not worth the other consequences. Good people will likely passionately disagree over where this line is. And that is ok.

No, that phrase is too often used to minimize the real and substantial impact of investment of wealth In our economy. To me, it’s like saying Niagara Falls trickles down.

i say let him go. you think Lehigh County isn't watching?

i bever said you were all conservative racist homophobes where you are or even here. there's many of them, but not everyone. as for the rant, some of it was stuff copied from a certain twitter account, many of the posts were aimed at Black Lives Matters protesters all being thugs that shoud be shot, and went on to add other ethnicities as well. scary ugly actually. Worse when called on it, they doubled down on the rhetoric. many slurs i won't type here were used

This is the second time I have seen someone call for either a thread or now the entire site to be closed down. I't seems so hypocritical when certain points are made and an immediate shutdown is mentioned.

Urban and liberal racists apparently aren't a concern then. Check. Got it. Glad to know that comments coming from those groups get a pass. Probably a "coast" thing. Drum corps should stop recruiting in the heartland. Colts should merge with Cavies, Crown should move to the coast, and Academy should team up with a west coast corps. That way everyone is "safe" from the conservative (the key noun conveniently left out of the description) racist homophobes. Rich, white musicians are the LAST people who should be throwing around virtue signals against racism in drum corps. /sarcasm, kinda.

I wouldn't hold my breath. The same people that scream about limitations and leveling the playing field are the ones virtue signalling. HOW many times have we been over placement vs corps income....and its never addressed. People like their elite little clubs and say all the right things but never do the right things.