OldBones

I was thinking the same thing, wondering who he is. I marched Crossmen 75+76. I still have an original decal and patch. Still like seeing everyone at shows. I attended Blast in NY and after the show I talked to 2 drummers from the show who marched Crossmen. This year while on vacation in Orlando, we went to see Crossmen at the Orlando show and the next day we ran into a bunch of members in EPCOT and spent some time while it was raining real hard outside. That was a great experience. A couple of years ago, at a hotel in Va, a parent of a member of Carolina Crown and I talked for a couple of hours because he noticed my BONES shirt.

Thank you Kevin. Exactly my points. I posted the same thoughts earlier and I was told I don't get it. Thats why I ranted on. I would love to see more corps become competitive. Its boring seeing the same 2-3 corps win every year (not that they don't deserve to win because they do) I may not be a fan of BD's show this year, but they executed the hell out of it. I enjoy that as much as watching Surf entertain like they did this year. To me a Drum Corps show is about being entertained and seeing the results of all the work the kids put into their shows. This year I marveled at watching Crown play and move like they did as much as watching Surf. I also liked Raiders show (who did a completely different kind of show on a painted tarp). That's why I go and spend my money. Do I wander the parking lots, yes. I do get into the shows before they start because I can watch parking lot videos anytime.

I thought of Surf when I first started reading this thread as well. NOT in the bouncing ball way but, in a fun way. (If they could afford it) Now, is this a new rule going into effect in 2013 or is it just random thoughts of where DCI may be heading somewhere in the future? Even if it becomes a rule, does that mean EVERYONE must go out and buy? Why? Just to keep up with the Jones? Pardon my language, but, THAT IS JUST PLAIN STUPID. Not to defend the "G7" but if you look at Finals for the last 10 years, the same 7 corps ARE the top 7. I think once, Madison made top 7 and SCV came in 8th. Also check the spreads between 7&8. Most of the time the is a 1.5-2.5 point spread. Is it because they have toys that the 8-12 corps (never mind the rest of us) don't have or is it because of show design, how and what they practice, corps management. Flame away, I don't care. I think this conversation about spending caps and make the "G7" spend less so some lesser corps can compete financially is mute. If you really look at it, outside the top 3-4 all the other corps are just entertainment. Just a fact. In the last 10 years, other than BD, Cadets & Cavies, only Phantom has won the coveted DCI World Championship. And they only did it once. Crown came somewhat close this year. Who else is really competing with the Jones? I work with a smaller Open Class corps. Can we compete even if we had 20% of G7's funds? No. Simple truth. Doesn't mean we aren't working hard to raise the needed funds, recruit the kids, entertain and compete. It means, we have to figure out how to do all that better. That's why they call it competition.

From your post: (which is what DCI is supposed to be: a collective). Within this collective, The Scouts, Troopers, Academy, Genesis, 7th Regiment and all other non-G7 corps which are actually ran well in a business sense are getting hurt by the ever expanding requirements placed upon the collective by the G7). I got what you were saying. You think the G7 should care about the little guys. The big rich guy should do what they can to help the smaller guys be more competitive. Don't try to expand what they do so you won't have to copy them. As a couple of G7 directors once told me at a DCI meeting "You'll never be where we are financially. So why even try to do what we do? It makes no sense". You mention a couple of the Open Class corps. I'll pick one of them - 7th Regiment. With your scenario, what should 7th Regiment do for say Spirit of Newark, Racine Scouts or VK? After all 7th is doing well financially and competitively in OC. The three I mentioned didn't even tour. One never came out. Should 7th Regiment not buy equipment that will make them better or water down their show so Spirit, Racine or VK can be more competitive? I think if you ask 7th, they really wouldn't care that much about Spirit, Racine or VK. Same goes for the G7. You think DCI should care about you. Maybe they should. But do they really? They expect you to be fiscally responsible, stay within your means and come to the shows you are scheduled to be in. That's it. If you want to be competitive like the G7, do what they do, go out and raise the couple million dollars a year that they raise. If they can do it, so can you. If you can't, why even try to stay up with them. As for G7's desire to eliminate all other corps because they can, and will, procure all the new shiny toys every year? They only care about their drum corps just like every other corps director.

I for one would not mind seeing lighting added to a show. Just so long as it is effectively done. Over use of lighting can destroy a show just as easily as overuse of narration or a soundboard that is too loud. DCI doesn't need to do a collective business deal so everyone can add lighting. No rule FORCES a corps to add new bells and whistles. If you can't afford them, don't use them. If G7 decides to use them, good for them. If any of the mentioned corps can afford them and decides to use them good for them as well. But, I would hate to be the corps that invests all the money, time and energy and be the one that goes on first. One may be able to figure out how to use lighting under stadium lights, but you can't block out the sun.

I thought the whole discussion was about the Cadets name change and PB+J? VK did not stop during mid tour, they never left Cali. Racine did not stop because of money issues. Sounded like the issue was the actual members. Yes, Raiders was saved at the last minute but their financial structure is solid. They were not going because kids did not pay (they were actually doing the right thing). Again, having a business structure and a viable long range business plan is the only way to run a drum corps. With budgets ranging from anywhere between $250,000 to $2.5 million (depending on corps and class) I can see why there are no start up corps.

Drum corps must be run like a business. If not, their fate will be that of Teal, Forte, Revo and countless corps in the past. Every corps needs a financial infrastructure. Tour fees and dues should not be the major financial source for any corps. Year round fundraising must be implemented, whether its grants or gifts, bingo, running a business (several corps run multiple businesses), alumni, golf outings, shows, etc. Unless a corps has a Bill Cook in their organization. That's, the only way a corps will survive in todays world.

Add to this that we know how many hours of hard work each member and staff puts into each performance. I stand and cheer for that even more (whether I like a show or not). From Blue Devils C to Oregon Crusaders/Pioneer to Blue Devils A, they all deserve to have us stand up and cheer. I just cheer louder for shows and performances I like better.

That's exactly what I was thinking when I posted this.

In todays economic times, that is probably the best plan one could have. I wish you the best of luck. Have you checked with some of the districts in the Delaware area that have suspended their music program to see if they have any instruments to rent? How about approaching a couple of the school districts that may have suspended their elementary and Middle School programs and asking if they would like your "INDEPENDENT" services. The only cost is the usage of whatever instruments they have? Just thinking a little outside the box.

Not looking to have more corps do Surfs type of show. Just looking to see if it would be more entertaining for a corps to do more recognizable music , likes Surfs show, or more DADA type of music like BD? I read a lot of posts stating that they wished more shows were done with music they recognized. Doesnt have to be stuff played in the past. There is plenty of recognizable music out there. Just wondering if some corps went in that direction, would the activity become a little more appealing.

Considering most DC fans take of Surfs show this year, could easily have been the most entertaining show this year, should more corps go the way Surf did? Yes, I know there are those who wished the show was a lot cleaner, but for pure entertainment, I believe Surf did a great job entertaining the fans this year. Would fans like to entertained with a modernized version of old school or a vague idea of a show that is performed to perfection?

First of all, Blackstar I salute you and your efforts. I hope everything works out the way you want it to. Lord knows there is very little as far as drum corps goes in the entire DE-MD-VA area. Only Surf and Raiders are close enough if any are willing to try out. Mr. Brasso, I didn't realize I was too old. Maybe just too old to start a drum corps in todays world. At the meeting I attended, some were young, some were older (like me) some had DC experience some did not. Some had a process and some funding in place, others had a dream but lacked the funds to start the process. The fact is only 1 out of that group has started a small corps. I certainly hope the rest have not given up. I'm not offended, just asking for a little respect for those who try (young or old). I tried starting a corps once. Yes, it was a dream (none of grandeur). The start-up budget was for 18 horns, 12 percussion, 5 pit, 12 guard and compete in the Garden State Circuit. No expectations of doing DCI. I had a good business plan and a business to support the corps, just wasn't good enough. I wasn't fortunate to have a bingo, a rich alumni base, or a sugar daddy. Like most directors today, I spent many sleepless nights finding ways to raise the necessary funds to run the corps, right up till the end. Since you deem me to be too old (my name is oldbones we need more youngbones), I challenge you (Mr Brasso) to do start one yourself. If you have, I salute you. You know, many talk the talk, rarely to they walk the walk. There is no better experience than to dream and try than to dream and not try at all. Unfortunately, not everyone succeeds.

I attended a small drum corps meeting for start-up corps last year in Philly. There were about 20 corps looking to start up in the Pa-NJ-NY-DE area. Bob Jacobs was there and gave a lot of very good insight. It was a very eventful meeting. Only thing is very little materialized. I believe only 1 corps is actually putting something together (Best of luck Roger, good things do happen to those who continue to push to realize their dream). The OP mentioned Spirit of Newark. Unfortunately their Executive Director, Glenn Eng, just recently passed away. I hear they are trying to keep things together and I wish them the best of luck and hope they return to the field soon. It really is a shame that there are so few corps all around, especially in Open Class.

I may be somewhat partial and I didnt get to see all the shows, but I think for thinking outside the box The Raiders use of the tarp really explained the Warped show. A journey on a Red Brick Road, whether that road was in the Twilight Zone or started along side the Yellow Brick Road in Oz. I realize some felt the design of the show wasn't up to their standards, but I think for what they were trying to convey on the field, the tarp added quite a bit. I also loved Oregons show as well. Overall, I was more entertained by the Open Class shows this year than the World Class shows.

I went to the Regal in Burlington NJ Tickets were $18. But some really classy parents from Surf (thank you to Steve and your wife) had free passes and gave them to a couple of us (ex Raiders and staff) going into the theater. The manager gave a free pass for a future movie but I had to go to the customer service counter and show my stub. Disappointed in the small crowd at the theater (50 or so). It was a good show, but I think I liked the Open Class shows more. They really brought it. Congratulations to the Open Class corps that made Semis. You deserved it.

They were only scheduled to be at Niles, Michigan City and Indy. Just last week their Executive Director, Glenn Eng, passed away suddenly. So sad. I hope they can come back from such a sad loss.

They went home yesterday. There equipment truck broke down and decided to leave than to create more expenditures for themselves. Form another thread on Open Class Forum: Revolution has made the decision to leave a few days early when an unfortunate situation arose involving the equipment trailer. Upon returning to the housing site following their prelims performance it was discovered that the equipment trailer had somehow suffered severe damage, including two broken axles. While Revolution was fortunate enough to be prepared for the inevitable emergencies that happen on the road, the price tag to repair the truck to a working and safe condition proved to be an extremely costly endeavor. Following the completion of Revolution’s 2012 competitive goals, including Open Class Finals, the organization resolved that its best interest would be to get the members and equipment home safely to South Texas. Before the rumor mill gets started, Revolution has had a very successful 2012 season! A $12,000 repair so close to the end of tour is an unfortunate event, however instead of toeing that compromising thin line for a few days, we will go home safely with our heads held high.

So far thats the only change. I think SCV will top BDB

I don't think Spartans will beat Pioneer but SCV, BDB, and OC will beat a couple of the WC corps. OC may even beat Surf but do not see them any higher.

I thought the new sheets were suppose to eliminate the 20pt drop? I do agree that from Raiders up should be over Pioneer and probably Gold on up to be even higher. I truly do not think up to Legends will be within 7 pts of Pioneer. I think Pioneer will be either just above or just below Spartans. I would be shocked if the judges let a World Class corps fall below that. I want to congratulate all the corps that performed today on a job well done. All of you deserve major kudos for representing Open Class as well as you have today. A major step up from last year.

Yes, finally perfect weather. Will anybody be covering the show live?

I agree. Open Class is going to be another great show from top to bottom. As far as OC making semis, it could happen (probably only top 2 maybe) but history shows a significant drop in scores once the OC corps get to Indy. I personally do not think it will happen this year either Last year everyone talked about BDB and OC in semis. . Here are the scores from last years prelims top 5 OC corps and bottom 6 WC corps: 18 Pacific Crest 77.75 19 BDB 76.45 20 Teal Sound 75.75 21 Mandarins 75.70 22 Oregon Crusaders 75.15 23 SCV 72.85 24 Cascades 72.20 25 Surf 71.40 26 Spartans 69.35 27 Pioneer 68.40 28 Revolution 66.50 Remember that the Top OC corps were in the 90's at Michigan City. So take 15 points off the OC scores and see where they fall.

I agree. Open Class is going to be another great show from top to bottom. As far as OC making semis, it could happen (probably only top 2 maybe) but history shows a significant drop in scores once the OC corps get to Indy. I personally do not think it will happen this year either Last year everyone talked about BDB and OC in semis. . Here are the scores from last years prelims top 5 OC corps and bottom 6 WC corps: 18 Pacific Crest 77.75 19 BDB 76.45 20 Teal Sound 75.75 21 Mandarins 75.70 22 Oregon Crusaders 75.15 23 SCV 72.85 24 Cascades 72.20 25 Surf 71.40 26 Spartans 69.35 27 Pioneer 68.40 28 Revolution 66.50 Remember that the Top OC corps were in the 90's at Michigan City. So take 15 points off the OC scores and see where they fall.

Oskaloosa, IA Friday, August 3, 2012 - 7:00 PM Music on the March 2 New Community Stadium @ Lacey Sports Complex 2060 238th St. Oskaloosa, IA 52577 Line-up is in reverse order of appearance. Colt Cadets - Dubuque, IA Blue Devils B - Concord, CA Spartans - Nashua, NH Genesis - Edinburg, TX Revolution - San Antonio, TX Legends - Kalamazoo, MI Velvet Knights - Pasadena, CA Les Stentors - Sherbrooke, QU Racine Scouts - Racine, WI Weather Sunny 96°F Chance of rain: 0% Wind: E at 8 mph Abundant sunshine. Hot. High 96F. Winds E at 5 to 10 mph. Avon Lake, OH Friday, August 3, 2012 - 7:00 PM Shoremen Brass Classic Avon Lake Memorial Stadium 175 Avon Belden Rd. Avon Lake, OH 44012 Line-up is in reverse order of appearance. Oregon Crusaders - Portland, OR Vanguard Cadets - Santa Clara, CA 7th Regiment - New London, CT Music City - Nashville, TN Raiders - Wayne, NJ Blue Saints - Sudbury, ON Weather Partly Cloudy 92°F Chance of rain: 20% Wind: SE at 8 mph Sunshine and clouds mixed. A stray afternoon thunderstorm is possible. High 92F. Winds SE at 5 to 10 mph.