OldBones

I was kind of thinking this way. But my comment goes a little deeper. With all this protesting about DCI holding finals and moving their headquarters out on Indiana, what about corps who remain in states that have a similar law. Illinois has this law, do the fans of the Cavies and Phantom not support them, how about the Colts, do we boycott their shows, how about the Cadets in PA, Crossmen in Texas, Academy in AZ, 7th Regiment in Connecticut (BTW - the FIRST state in institute this law) all the new corps starting up in Florida and Louisana. We can go on and on. If the answer is no, then why is all this all put on the shoulders of DCI? I respect the opinions of many people here, but if the cry is just for DCI, why not each individual corps? If the answer is years established, Cadets bebunk that with their rebranding from Garfield to Bergen County to Allentown PA. Crossmen reestablished from PA to Texas. No loss of identity for either one.

This has been discussed many times before. The only way a drum corps can survive a lower cost per member is to have equipment, uniforms, gas, food and facility costs go down. Those who are involved on the business side of the activity know what I am getting at. The post about the music summer camp (sorry, I dont remember the posters name) is very accurate, just sending your child to any overnight camp for a week will cost close to $2000. Compared to that, any corps is a bargain. Seems like a lot of the talk is about the cost of marching in a world class corps. For some students, that is the only kind of corps they will march in, wether they are good enough or not. One thing that is not memtioned is how some corps will string you along having you come back for 3-4 camps then cut you when a vet comes back, or make you an alternate dragging props for the summer at $100-$150/camp, but that is beating the dead horse as they say. Depending on where the OP lives, are there any open class corps in the area. They are usually cheaper, but you do not tour the whole summer. Tradeoffs. The corps Im with has quite a few lower middle class and poor college students. We set up payment terms (including a 12 mo payment schedule) to help out, run fundraisers once a month, we give them a sponsor letter with instructions on who to go after, point them to sponsor me pages, and ask the alumni to help out. With all that, some still can not come up with the funds to march. I guess if the child wants to be in a drum corps, there are ways it can get done. If they only want to be in a world class corps, all I can say is you have to abide by their rules and policies.

As stated before, being on the school board helps with my planning. Not because I get special treatment (the district makes absolute sure board members dont as we have to pay Non Profit prices for school useage like everyone else), but I get to see all building useage in the district. Finding a permanent spot to hold Winter and Summer camps and move-ins are a priority for us. Our problem has never been with the school, its when we cant get into any of the districts schools and need to find a facility elsewhere. That is when we hear about the complaints about the other corps. Tim K, you are right by saying most corps leave the facility in better shape than when we came in, unfortunately the actions of a small few affect the many. Also, not just WC or OC but International Corps and DCA corps as well. I had one administrator at a local district complain about a corps that stayed there over 10 years ago and trashed their school and didn't pay a penny for damages or for the facility itself. They will NEVER EVER let a drum corps use their facility again (Yes that corps still exsists today). How do you fight that?

Another problem with using schools, especially in my district, is that churches and other sporting groups have moved into the gyms and cafeterias on Saturdays and Sundays from 8a-1p. I sure we are not the only ones working with this type of situation. Our schools district is very busy to begin with but this year it is in the midst of celebrating its 50th anniversary and there is always something going on 7 days a week. We work around it, but it doesnt lend itself to a smooth flowing weekend. Logistically, not the best situation to have practice on a Friday night and Saturday then move everything for Sunday. Makes us think outside the box at times. That being said, we will be ready for the summer.

College band I was in did a series of Canadian performances. Percussion section filled 2 snares w/ as many bottles of Canadian whisky as they could fit - were busted by customs dude who was curious why some drums were a lot heavier than others/ Heard a story about Blue Rock Drumline crossing the canadian border with the dumline in the back of the equipment truck. When the border crossing patrol asked to open the back of the truck, there was the drumline standing next to there drums. The officer just shook his head and let them go.

I only glanced through this. So if this was already memtioned, I aplologize. As a school board member and a facilities person for an Open Class corps, I see both sides of the issue. All the responses about facilities not allowing for rehearsals due to insurance risks, having personal stay while a corps is using the facility, districts having activities at their school or center all year round are true. Add to that if a fire inspector refuese to let you sleep over because its not safe to have kids seeping on a gym floor. Also, schools have memories like elephants, especially when there is a bad experience. Not to vilify any particular drum corps (and sadly its not just one or two and not just international corps who do not know the ways of the US) whos names range from inactive to still active, but a more disturbing situation is when you talk to the facilities administrator and they tell you that "they let XX drum corps stay and they trashed the school" or "XX corps still owes them money for staying and have refused to pay so I guess you are out of luck" . These are some of the actual quotes I recieved when trying to find rehearsal space. If a corps stayed or rehearsed on any of our schools (and one does), if they did not leave it in better condition than when they came in, NO CORPS would ever be allowed to rehearse there again. If a corps does leave a facility in worse shape than when they came in, maybe they should be banned from competing until past bills are paid and they learn how to respect other's property. The DCI AND DCA landscape would look very different if it was enforced.

Many changes financially over the last 2 years. Just like a couple World Class corps who had financial issues and were able to survive, so did Raiders. Revamped staff, better financial controls, better fundraising, a new way of doing things have all lead to their continued exsistance. As far as the amount of competitive shows, not many left on the east coast any more and DCI sets the tour.

My one and only show this year was last night at the theater. I agree with all the reviews here. Glad to see Bones with a very good chance to make finals. I found it interesting that when showing the other drum corps from earlier in the day, instead of showing the top 25 (including 4 of the 5 Open Class corps who made semis-Congratulation to all 5) they show Pioneer who came in 30th. Nothing against Pioneer, just wondering why they were more important to show than any of the Open Class corps who made it. Not a rant, just a thought. They did show a small portion of BDB from Open Class Finals. Congratulations to ALL the corps yesterday. The activity is strong and there was great improvement from all the corps over last year. Good luck tonight to the top 25. Great show, just wish I could have heard it live.

Typical for scores to go down. The judges are now comparing everyone to Cadets and BD, not just SCVC and BDB. Until this year it would not be uncommon to see a 15 pt+ drop for OC Finals to today. Lucky to see anyone below Spartans in top 25. I see, below Spirit, BDB - Pacific Crest (very close) - SCVC - Genesis - Surf - Spartans - Manadrins - Cascades. Of course Im not there. Just going by scores and history.

Too many variables to put stock into scores and rankings this early in the season. Its great that everyone is judged off the same sheets, but some shows have a full panel of judges, some don't Some corps come out with a full show, some don't. 12 corps haven't even come out yet. Some corps will get many looks, some only a couple. For me, scores and placements dont count until the weekend before Michigan City. Meanwhile, enjoy these shows. I find them to be more enjoyable than WC. Good luck to ALL the OC coprs. Have a great summer and make great memories.

Open Class is not the only corps that have kids jump. Kids in World Class jump as well. Its just the nature of the Drum Corps food chain. Now that ALL DCI corps are on the same sheets, why not make ALL corps World Class. Just because a corps doesn't do a full tour doesn't mean you will not get a great experience. I know by working with some of the members of the OC corps I work with, that they were disenfranchised with the whole World Class atmosphere and how they were treated. Not all corps operate the same and its just a matter of finding the right fit for these kids, if they choose to march anywhere besides the corps of their choice.

First Year Crossmen, 1975, in Hanover PA. Start of the show, turned for the first hit, the entire audiance was already giving a standing ovation. The most amazing thing was they never sat down. Standing O throughout the entire show. I'll never forget that experience.

IF Genesis decides to make the move, I wish them the grestest of luck. Personally, now that all the corps are on the same set of sheets, why not have all corps in the same class. Since there is somewhat of a stigma related to Open Class, why not create one class and subdivide to Full Tour, Partial Tour and Regional. From year to year, a corps can state their intentions and DCI can evaluate the corps ability to sustain their request. This way, if a corps is having financial issues, they dont have to decide to disolve their corps, just go on a lesser tour. before you state that a strong corps will stay put so they can win year after year, Open Class already has that scenerio with SCVC, BDB and occasionally Spartans.

Raiders wore raven feathers as a sash.

It seems this goes on every year anymore. This is a real disservice to a corps fan base. If a corps uses unlicensed material and a portion of the show is muted or cut from a cd or dvd, do they still receive money from the sale of that recording? They shouldn't. If its not allowed to be on a cd or dvd because of copyright laws, how can DCI live stream or make the show available On-Demand? DCI charges and makes a profit of some kind and allows the complete show to be aired. Does that not fall under the same law? Since the sale of DCI products are based on full show performances, shouldn't DCI and/or the corps find out early if there are any issues with the show? I would think they would resolve all issues BEFORE the season starts.

Bill, in one of your earlier posts you said Kilties fees are all inclusive (includes championship week). How much do Kilties charge for the year? I have heard some younger members in a DCA corps complain how they dont have enough money to buy food at shows. A couple of times I helped these kids get something to eat. I know most dont complain and have the money, but Im wondering what kind of nourishment these poorer kids are getting after a long rehearsal and a performance.

I find this forum extremely fascinating. As I stated in an earlier post here, I am not all that familiar with how a DCA corps runs, but reading this forum, I keep seeing that DCA is a cheaper alternative to drum corps than DCI. It definitely is cheaper than DCI World Class. But, if you add Championship weekend costs (hotel, food, transportation-if you drive and not take the provided transportation) and add that to the fact that DCA corps do not provide meals during practice, along with your own food and transportation costs to local shows (as stated in replys to my earlier post), all of a sudden its not that cheap anymore. Its seems more on a level of fees for certain Open Class corps though. Is there also a separate winter per camp fee? So what is the real cost to join a DCA corps? I would think its closer to $1000 - $1300 for the season when all things are added in.

I would think Bucs and C2 would feed as both are run more like a DCI corps.

I'm not that familiar with the operations of a DCA corps, but as I read through this, I wonder if the corps feeds their members while they are there. Seems like the cost of the room could be minor compared to the amount of food that needs to be bought during their time at championships. I know some went down last night (at least 1 meal) today (3 meals) tomorrow (3 meals) On the way home (?) How many corps feed their members? Also, do the corps tell the younger kids this while they are recruiting. All I ever hear is how it only costs $500 total.

Quite frankly one can not compare a show that features the OC corps while on tour, with any local shows (except for California?) In the east, there are only 3 corps left, Spartans, 7th Regiment and Raiders. In the Midwest I believe there are only 2, Legends and Racine Scouts. I attend the OC show in Manchester NH this year. Les Stentors came down from Canada and Legends came out, Spartans, 7th and Raiders. The Manchester alumni corps put on an exhibition. It was a good show but attendance was not that great. I know DCI charges several thousands to host an OC show, I think about $7000 this year, and that's before you get the stadium, housing and practice fields for each corps. Your right, it's not totally DCI's fault, but, the amount they charge does create a problem for some corps, as it did for you. With budgets being as tight as they are, I can see why there are so few OC shows.

Wish I was able to go. Sounds and looks like this was a great show. Point spreads are fairly close as well: 1.65 between 9th and 7th 1.2 between 3rd and 5th .45 between 1 and 2. Congratulations to everyone. Now onto Indy.

I remember hearing it became too expensive to rent the dome for the extra 2 days. That's why they moved Open Class to Michigan City.

Wish I could be there. Good luck to ALL the performers. Give everyone a GREAT show. It doesn't matter where anyone ends up tonight, ALL of Open Class deserves a Standing O. Will anyone be able to give a live review? On a side note, just heard Raiders will be going to Indy. Great news.

We were? :tic:/> :tic:/> :tic:/>

Though I can't make the show tonight, PR is practicing in my town with Raiders just down the street. Hoping to catch the last part of PR rehearsal when I get out of work.