audiodb
-
Posts
6,216 -
Joined
-
Last visited
-
Days Won
7
Posts posted by audiodb
-
-
Phantom Regiment had a brutal 1970 season. That was their first season back from years of inactivity, and the corps members were very young.
On July 5 that year, they finished dead last at a contest in Dixon, IL, with a score of 42.50.
That is certainly "basement" level. They didn't compete at nationals that year, so they didn't finish at the true bottom of the heap, but it's safe to say Phantom made huge strides after that low point.
I have a score on file for Phantom Regiment in 1969, competing in a show in Rockford. They pulled a 25.35, which put them 25 to 45 points behind the rest of the field that day.
Carolina Crown finished last at the 1990 DCI open class prelims (22nd place out of 22). That was the very first round of prelims, so Crown truly was dead last in the division, 32nd place out of 32 open class corps in total.Another last place finisher that went on to better things was the Glassmen. They were the only corps cut in the 1985 open-class prelims. Both they and the Blue Knights had humble beginnings, but ascended to peaks of 5th/6th.
Cascades finished last in the 1977 DCI open-class prelims, but went on to make the finals 25 years later.
-
No, its not " correct ". In 1975, the World Open was held in Lynn Ma at the Manning Bowl. The World Open has never been held in Everett Ma. ( although Everett Stadium has been the venue for both local Eastern Ma circuit shows, CYO, DCI and DCA shows many times in the 60's, 70's. )
You may not want to rely solely on memory. I went and checked my '75 World Open LPs, and sure enough, the same reprint of H. Worth Ake's DCN article was there, citing Everett's Memorial Stadium as the venue for the 1975 World Open finals. I take it from the references to flooding that there was some rain in the vicinity, which also jives with Boo's recollection.
Apparently, the 1974 World Open wasn't held in Lynn either. Per Drum Corps World's August 30, 1974, issue (p. 11), Bill Naiden describes the pros and cons of Lowell's Cawley Stadium vs. the previous Manning Bowl site. One page later, a contest report on the show (no reporter named) gives more detail on how repairs at the Manning Bowl necessitated the move to Cawley Memorial Stadium in Lowell with only a month's advance notice. Cawley was not entirely problem-free either, as this is where the infamous sprinklers went on a few times during the Kilties' performance in finals.
-
3
-
-
No, it is not that at all....
From this link
First, your definition of brainstorming and mine are not mutually exclusive.
Second, I still don't see why we should expect (or condone) "no real support" for open-class as the result of brainstorming. Can you explain that?
-
1
-
-
Yes, it does. Do you know what a brainstorming session is all about?
I do....it's about discussing ideas individuals think are good. And if anyone thinks withdrawing all real service from open-class is a good idea....do I really need to finish this sentence? Is that really up for sincere debate?
We know it was not a final product, so it is not valid to consider it the last word on what they were presenting. Just because you think they had "plenty of opportunities" in no way reflects what they may or may not have had the opportunity to do. Do you know how many meetings they held to discuss and refine their presentation prior to the leak of the ppt?It was only leaked after it was presented. They had as many meetings as they thought were needed to develop the proposal to the point of presenting it to the DCI board.
I have no idea, but unless you have some firm information, your contention is speculation at best.Well, then, if the G7 proposal is what results from four months of in-person meetings and numerous teleconferences among these seven directors, I can safely "speculate" that I wouldn't want to hand majority control of the DCI board to them.
-
8
-
-
A work in process is just that...not the final version the group would want to present. Happens all the time when groups of people get together to create something...there are bits and pieces from everybody that eventually get massaged and whittled down to something the group as a whole wants to support.
Brainstorming sessions, for example, are supposed to be open to any and all to make whatever suggestions the want on the topic being discussed, and then the group discusses, reviews, changes, deletes...etc...until the consensus POV is determined. The ppt file looks like a conglomeration of suggestions that had not yet gone through the vetting process by the overall group, so IMO it is unfair...and actually IMO just plain wrong... to use that as a final opinion of the group.
First of all, does that make it OK if they only "brainstormed" to remove all service from open-class?
Secondly, the G7 PowerPoint presented in May of 2010 was the result of four months of collaboration by the G7, where they had plenty of opportunities to take those brainstorms and refine, vet, and reach consensus. How do we know this? Because those seven corps told us so in their septuple press release:
Meetings have been conducted in-person, and through numerous teleconferences over the last four months. In an effort to ensure that the broader DCI community was aware of these discussions, the membership of Drum Corps International was informed of the meetings via phone calls made in March of 2010. DCI’s CEO and the Chairman of DCI’s Board of Directors were also informed of these meetings in writing.The group of seven has worked as an independent caucus, coming together in an effort to create a proposal that it hopes will be approved by the DCI Board and the membership of DCI.
Much as you'd like to believe otherwise, the G7 proposal was vetted for four months before being presented to DCI.
-
5
-
-
Why do people feel their opinions are more important than everyone else's they need to spot light their opinion on a new thread???
Why do you object to that?
This is a discussion group. People create threads....that's how discussions start. If you don't like that, you can create your own thread to complain about it.
I mean c'mon this belong in the other G7 threads!!! Just because you've been silent doesn't mean your thoughts are worth more than 2 cents!We have multiple threads about the Cadets in this forum....always have. Should all news, talk, media and predictions about the Cadets also be merged into the G7 thread?
-
I respect Surf, and Pacific Crest, and Mandarins. I think they each have demonstrated qualities of improvement - financially, show production-wise, fan-friendly, quietly growing their asset strength if even in the shadows. I respect Cascades for their determination to save an old, respected brand. I respect Oregon Crusaders for their willingness, in the face of a marginal balance sheet, to leap into WC.
But let's stand in the G7's shoes. Pio has done a good job of surviving, but what have they done to advance the activity? What about Blue Knights? Colts? All the others? Are they advancing the activity or are they better characterized as "marking time"?
For starters, you know that South African Field Band Foundation that BD staff visited this past fall? Pioneer has been supporting it for 15 years, sending staff there to teach or judge, and bringing kids halfway around the world to experience marching with a world-class corps.
BK and Colts do great things too....but rather than preach to the choir here, let me get back to your request for positive ideas. How about a mechanism to incentivize corps to do these things that promote the activity? Identify agenda items that promote growth in DCI's business plan, whatever they may be (hosting events, staging clinics to support DCI events, international outreach, traveling out of the way to fill a strategic need like the Western tour, etc.), and use the revenue sharing formula to reward those behaviors. Instead of paying corps for where they placed 37 years ago, pay them for what they do for DCI now.
-
1
-
-
The 990's clearly show that some corps seem perfectly comfortable doing the same things, with the same money, no growth, no advancement in placement for years on end.
Regarding "advancement in placement"....the G7 haven't advanced in competitive placement lately either.
Placement is largely a zero-sum game....you only advance at another corps' expense. So I sure hope some corps can tolerate being on either side of that equation.
-
2
-
-
First, let me once again thank you for the enormous contribution you've made to the information base here at DCP. Thanks also to the people directly associated with some of these corps, who have helped explain the details behind the numbers. I think we all have a better understanding of the many people and many efforts that support this activity, thanks to this thread.
Since this is such a valuable look "under the hood", I hope you have the opportunity to include Pioneer along with the other world-class corps (edit: I see you read my mind!).
I would also suggest that a look at the open-class units would be most informative. I understand, though, that there is insufficient time to do so prior to the Janual, and thus, no need to prioritize such an effort. However, if world-class still hasn't disassembled itself by February, it would be worth having some factual reference upon which to evaluate the relative viability of the open-class model, both for those corps who tour to Indy and for those who stay in their home region.
Again, thanks! :babies:/>
-
2
-
-
I wonder if it was the bottom 7 corps that wanted to create their own circuit if people would be so against it.
But the G7 say they don't want to create their own circuit, remember? They want to work over work with DCI to get what they want (or else).
-
Could someone give us a history lesson of the years past as to when the '7' were ousted from the BOD? A little bird informed me this all started back when the Star of Indiana fell apart and the then big Director Jim Mason bucked the system. Then the other Corps were ousted from the BOD, while the new board took over control of DCI.
I've only been a FAN of DCI since around 2007, but am slowly learning the drama that has unfolded within this organization. And the reason I have become such a fan is at the power that these '7' corps have kept producing over the years and kept me coming back and back for more.
But if someone could fill us all in to what happened around the fall of Star of Indiana and why those corps were ousted in the first place, might shine more light on this new drama that has risen! LOL
Um, since no one else is answering, let me start....
First, there is no connection between the two.
Second, neither were "ousted". Star of Indiana just decided to do something else after the 1993 season, and left DCI. They went on to partner with Canadian Brass, and then develop a stage show best known as "Blast".
As for the G7....helps to understand that DCI is governed by the directors of the member corps, but they generally only meet and vote once a year. They all vote on rule changes, but for most other business, they elect six of their own to join three non-corps-directors on the Executive BOD. All of the G7 are still actively voting members of DCI; however, none of them currently serve on the Executive Board. As I understand it, none of the G7 directors have even run for election to the Executive Board since the events of May 2010 (someone want to elaborate on that for me, please?).
-
3
-
-
My point is that ranking "1st" in a pool where the top score is a 75 is not the same as ranking 1st in a pool where the top score is a 95. Ranking is a relative value not a measure of excellence.
So a G7 show in June would not draw like a G7 show in August, then?
-
1
-
-
So fans only care about arbitrary DCI rankings, not excellence and quality of performance?
Theater of the absurd
Are you saying that DCI rankings are arbitrary, and do not correlate to excellence and quality of performance?
-
Not to be too much of a downer, but can anyone honestly tell me that they believe that there would be just as many butts in seats for in a show with the following lineup, as there would be in a MIM show?:
Colts
Troopers
Oregon Crusaders
Pioneer
Spirit of Atlanta
Pacific Crest
Crossmen
Absolutely. If the prevailing DCI ranking order was....
1. Colts
2. Troopers
3. Oregon Crusaders
4. Pioneer
5. Spirit of Atlanta
6. Pacific Crest
7. ---
8. Crossmen
9. ---
10. ---
etc.
....then yes, that show would draw similarly to last year's TOC shows.
-
The Academy
Revenue, Expenses, and Net Assets
The Bottom Line
Revenue
2008: $667,844
2009: $618,754
2010: $688,301
Expenses
2008: $642,489
2009: $638,184
2010: $632,110
Talk about controlling expenses....these are nearly identical from year to year.
-
There are kids now who do not have that access...but there were more in my day who did not. Is it exactly the same population? No. There were many urban corps through the 50's and 60's...few made it as far as the DCI era, and those that did failed through the 70's. Not many left by the mid 80's. But...with only 440 around 1970...that meant there were huge areas that had no corps around the country...the geographic coverage was just not there as compared to 4000 competitive bands.
But HS marching band's "geographic coverage" is only a net that over 80% of school districts slip through. You simply do not have access to a competitive marching band program if you live in one of those 80%-plus districts.
-
You're contention is that, nationally, 80% of high schools don't offer a competitive marching band program. My first quote address that claim, saying that I think it is MORE LIKELY that those numbers are the other way around, meaning 80% DO have marching band on a NATIONAL SCALE.
No. The number of competing HS bands represents less than 20% of high schools.
A few years back, I had a lot of time to kill while our economy was melting down. To amuse myself, I set out to document the 2008 fall marching band season as thoroughly as possible. I gathered contest results from all over the country, some directly from the circuits or state associations, others from major contests not affiliated with circuits, and still more from websites like Midwest Marching and World of Pageantry, who collect such data regionally. Having done this sort of thing before, I already knew a lot about where to expect activity, so in cases where the expected results didn't turn up, I scanned individual band websites and contacted circuit officials and/or band directors to dig up data. All this information was entered into a database, where I could cross-check for similar names to make sure I accounted for all the different high schools named Washington, Kennedy, etc.
Anyway, the bottom line....I found a grand total of 5118 bands in field competition. That includes everything from scored contests to events with nothing but festival ratings (i.e. "Excellent", "Superior" or "Good"). For those of you who say festival ratings shouldn't count, removing those leaves 3803 bands that competed in scored contest formats. Personally, I think all 5118 count.
Still, last I saw, there were over 27000 high schools of the 9-12 or 10-12 variety, of which 5118 is less than 20%. There are also over 10000 more schools where 9-12 and some other grades are combined. Some of these are combined Jr./Sr. high schools, and some of them field competing marching bands that are included in the 5118 I tallied.
-
This contention that competitive marching band hasn't substituted in some important way for drum corps seems silly. It's like claiming cars didn't substitute for horses and buggies a hundred years ago. Of course they did. They don't have to be the same to affect one another.
Marching band isn't drum corps. But it has over the past 30 years provided some marchers with an experience that in some aspects substitutes for the drum corps experience. That's only logical. All that should left to dispute is degree.
Now see, when you say it like that, it seems reasonable. My only quibble is with the first sentence....because I don't see anyone claiming there's no overlap at all. (Though my Nintendo comment may get misinterpreted....)
-
Concept? That's all it is....a concept. Marching band did not "replace" drum corps any more than Nintendo has.
-
Don't know what happened at 7:30 tonight that caused this reading comprehension blackout....but to review:
1. To actucker - I never said all urban areas had drum corps.
2. To the Mikes (Boo and Davis) - yes, I know Massachusetts and Wisconsin have competing marching bands. But considering that there are 10 times as many competing bands vs. the historical peak population of junior corps, the number of such bands in MA and WI are comparatively sparse. In the context of what I was responding to, I would say the bands in those states are not even sufficiently numerous to have "replaced" the drum corps we lost on a statewide level.
-
And what communities are you talking about in particular? Marching band is all over the country.
All over the suburbs, perhaps. But competitive marching band is still absent from many of the urban communities that drum corps used to serve. It is also strangely sparse in Massachusetts and Wisconsin, former hotbeds of local drum corps....and of course, Canada.
You're simply trying to find contradictions that aren't there. Yes, there are tons of outreach programs, all geared towards the same goal that drum corps used to have. One of the major musical forms of that outreach is marching band. What exactly doesn't make sense there?The part about marching band "replacing" drum corps.
Yes, the experience is in fact unique. Name another youth experience that provides an 80 day tour of the entire country.No drum corps tours for 80 days either. The season is only eight weeks long.
-
Marching band is not a replacement in terms of what makes drum corps unique. It is a replacement in terms of what function drum corps used to serve within the community (along with a ton of other community outreach programs).
That makes even less sense. First of all, competitive marching band has not replaced drum corps in many of the communities that local drum corps programs used to serve. Second, since even you admit there are tons of community outreach programs, how do you demonstrate that any particular one of them "replaced" another?
What we seem to disagree on is what makes drum corps unique. You seem to think that its the product (which I would still argue is very different from that of marching band). What I consider unique to drum corps is the experience that the members get from it,So you are one of those who believe that (name of youth activity) is unique because of the experience it provides, regardless of how many other youth activities provide the same experiences. OK, let's just agree to disagree on that one.
which wasn't always present in local community drum corps in the first place. Those local drum corps were not the same as the touring corps. That same separation exists now, we just call those local drum corps high school marching bands.There was no separation. In fact, for quite awhile, there were no touring corps. But, in your mind, touring corps and non-touring corps were/are two separate activities?
-
Getting back to the original post....
Just listening to shows past, and crowd reactions are just so much more energetic and emotional than those of today's shows. What's with that?
I can't answer your question (no one can) without knowing which "shows past" you are referring to. 1971? 1981? 2011? Why no one cares to even ask that is beyond me.
Regardless, I hope the OP is not drawing conclusions based entirely on the recordings. If you weren't there, you can't judge crowd reaction from recordings made with such a wide variety of equipment and deployment. These days, many of our championship recordings are made with mics pointed at the crowd specifically to capture their reaction....this was generally not done back in the day (perhaps not ever prior to the mid-'80s).
-
I think the "casual fan" is just as capable of evolving as the activity is, if not more so. I've seen it myself.
But you offered this in response to a post about first-time viewers. They haven't been following along and "evolving". They are forming their first (and perhaps last) impressions based on the comtemporary activity.
I don't think drum corps is in any danger of "losing what makes it unique".Well, that is even more paradoxical, considering it was you who just said this:
For better or for worse, that community role that the drum corps of old filled has been replaced by competitive high school marching band.
If marching band can serve as a replacement for drum corps at the local level, then drum corps isn't as unique as you claim, now, is it?
-
1
-
Stanford Showdown
in DCI World Class Corps Discussions
Posted
Yes, it's working for me. That must be the Jim Ott Brass Ensemble I'm hearing. Is that Bonnie Ott soloing?