audiodb

And why were there more corps? Evidently, the activity held a certain appeal to both participants and spectators back in the day.

You have the last sentence correct. The preceding 1.5 sentences, though, are about 15 years too late.

Part of this confusion might have to do with varying winter program offerings. For example, it appears that BK ran one winter guard in 2009 and two in 2010. Right now, I see no winter guards listed on the BK website....perhaps Opus X became a separate organization?

Alright, then. For decades, drum corps used G bugles. Top instructors in the DCI activity touted the prevailing bugle designs as best suited for field music. Their influence grew to the point where other groups all over the planet began converting from band brass to G bugles. In the '70s-'80s-'90s, the Quebec circuit ran parallel divisions for corps using G bugles and corps using band brass. Over those years, dozens of corps switched from band brass to G bugles. None switched in the other direction. Certain influential European instructors saw what DCI was doing in the '70s, and were so inspired that they went back to their groups and spawned whole movements to create competitive circuits in England and Holland, where dozens of groups converted from miscellaneous instrumentation to G bugles. Then one day in 1999, DCI passed the so-called "any-key" brass rule change, and with it, the unwritten message that the G bugle, formerly touted for decades as the preferred choice for field work, was now no longer preferred. Top instructors, some of the same people who previously touted the G bugle, now chose to endorse Bb/F instrumentation. An avalanche of North American corps switched from G to Bb/F. Within a few years, other circuits around the world began making similar switches. The same corps that had converted from band brass to G bugles in previous decades were now converting back to band brass. So who was "behind"?

I don't know why this concept eludes the grasp of so many on here. Pretty obvious to me that if you systematically raise the pay of seven DCI corps, that will take away from the rest to some degree.

Only one reply makes sense....this.

The sky is falling!

Mike, it's not like you to purposely misrepresent the facts, so I'm going to assume you haven't looked at that interview in awhile, and are allowing time to blur your memory of it. Please take another look. You will find: 1. Corps could travel wherever they wished. Their gripe was that appearance fees were not equal from region to region. 2. Said director speculated that one event was probably running at a loss in the one year anecdotally mentioned. 3. There was a difference of opinion among DCM directors about the degree and rate to which new technology should be embraced. Laptops were still luxuries, and smartphones a thing of the future, so relying on e-mail for correspondence even during tour was nice for some and unworkable for others. There were other criticisms about the timing of show contracts and housing arrangements, and vague derision directed at the bookkeeping practices, but to say that the whole circuit was "run on sheets of notebook paper out of the trunk of a car" is just not accurate. And frankly, it was philosophy that prevented any sort of compromise. The director interviewed, speaking on DCI's behalf, contended that granting the all-age corps any kind of membership or voting rights in the DCI-operated region was not even on the table for negotiation because of some sort of philosophical belief that DCI-the-youth-organization could not legally allow that.

Double does not equal triple. Hopefully, whoever makes the decisions on venue selection and ticket pricing realizes that. My point was not even about who the headliners are, or will be. The point is that for now, these "special shows" will receive a whole lot of support from established DCI marketing efforts. They are already on the DCI.org schedule and in the DCI.org press release. And too many corps. Cut it back to an efficient number, like seven. Seriously, though, there is not much effort involved in "driving to" a show once you are already on that tour. Stopping at shows between Atlanta and Allentown adds paydays without adding miles. If this were not true, the G7 would have stopped doing weekday shows already. Who will man the ticket booth, then? Who will man the gates? Who will provide all the other volunteers necessary to run a contest? And who will do the local legwork, establishing connections with local businesses to add to the sponsor list and expand marketing at the level the DCI machine cannot reach? TEPs provide a number of vital suppport functions that neither the lean DCI office staff nor their too-few corps can. Throwing that baby out with the bath water would erode the activity's fan base and financial support. Perhaps the G7 don't mind such erosion, though, if they're downsizing the activity to begin with....

Agreed. Of course, a response is still warranted....

No, it doesn't. Here's why: 1. MIMPA won't clear $65000-$70000 in the typical HS stadium. More seating capacity is required. It can't be done simply by charging three times the ticket price for the same # of seats. 2. MIMPA won't clear $65000-$70000 to begin with. Perhaps the "DCI special show series" will, thanks to DCI's brand equity, marketing efforts, etc....but if MIMPA were separate from DCI, they'd have to do their own (or pay for the outsourcing). 3. Once we account for the above, the payday for participating corps will be no greater than it was in the TOC shows (probably less, if the show budget is balanced). Getting back to your original statement, there are reasons for holding local shows. Generally speaking, corps want more shows than they are willing/able to host, so we have always had tour event partners (TEPs) to fill those gaps. There's the thought that if DCI and/or the corps ran all the shows, they'd get all the profits. But shows are not zero-risk investments, so growing DCI to where they could host all the TEP shows would put too many risky eggs in one basket. Plus, a larger DCI would drive Daniel Ray crazy.

I thought even you knew this....drum corps has never been self-sustaining. Even in 1919, drum corps required sponsorship or external fundraising to assist with their costs, smaller though they might have been.

And what would you tell the employees on day two, when they ask you where all the audio/video master recordings went?

That is a crock. We already see the G7 bringing in additional people to coordinate what little they actually did with the TOC shows that was in any way different from the rest of DCI's events. If you want something done "within the framework of existing organizations"....well, DCI is an existing organization. Done.

At what level? They're kids....amateurs....they are only together for the summer....and they only perform for 10 minutes. But the amount being argued about is not so small when multiplied by the number of shows it is applied to. It is not so small in the context of the budget of a drum corps (which you admit is not a big money business to begin with). And it certainly is not small to suggest that corps X get over twice the pay of corps Y. Oh, I don't care how much money groups want. How much they get is of greater interest. Wrong. You want to experiment....do it with your own money, and keep it outside of the DCI framework.

False (i.e. the last two words). OK, that is hilarious. It's not designed to split off, it's just separate? And since DCI is perfectly capable of "receiving revenues from shows", creating another entity to receive show revenue is quite obviously "replacing DCI" in that function. :doh:/> Wrong again. Already have reports on another thread about show pay of $5000 for a TOC show vs. the usual $2600 appearance fee. That's not what the 990s say. And if there is no money in drum corps shows, why do the G7 want to run drum corps shows themselves? :doh:/> :doh:/> That extra DCI money is being directed to these "special shows". That benefits the G7 at the expense of the other member corps. :doh:/> :doh:/> :doh:/>

Daniel Ray advocating a return to the past? Seriously? Perhaps this is a return to the past....when top corps fled to wherever the biggest prize money was, and boycotted the rest....and when corps couldn't stitch a practical tour together in all that chaos. DCI was formed to address those challenges, and create a stable environment for a couple of dozen touring corps. Anyone opposed to that is free to advocate leaving DCI and doing something else....but please, just admit your opposition to the concept. This one-foot-in, one-foot-out act is not helping.

No. You are speaking past tense. Extending that to future tense is quite different. Sure. And 27th Lancers had a long run, 11 years with 10 top-7 finishes. Madison Scouts went 27 years with 25 top-7 finishes, and since have only made it once in 13 subsequent years. Like they say on the financial commercials....past performance is no guarantee of future results.

Aaaaaaahhhhh! The sky is falling! No, it isn't. On the other hand, we haven't had a corps from DCI's top pay bracket die since 1974. Do you realize how amazing that track record is? Look at how top corps fared pre-DCI....look at top winter guards, or other comparable activities....it is astonishing. Clearly, DCI has been doing something that is working for corps at that level. This sounds familiar. NASCAR....only seven or eight corps....where have I heard those ideas before? Oh, that's right....from the G7 proposal! Honestly, by now, every DCI member corps has diverse revenue streams. So do some open-class units. There may be a few left in open-class with too many eggs in one basket....let's work on that. But we won't be limited to just a handful of surviving corps on that account. Don't let the G7 rhetoric scare you.

Why not? There's a ferris wheel to the audience's right....that should ring a bell with someone. Show must have been staged in conjunction with a local fair. Plus, it appears that two different people had recording equipment set up on field level. The only 1971 show I know of that fits this description would be the Combine show in Wheeling. Is it definitely 1971?

Actually, I think I recall it being mentioned that most of the performers in BD Entertainment are not current corps members. Many are alumni of BD or other corps....but the key thing is most are adults who have the mobility and availability to respond to fast-developing corporate gigs. The first I heard of this sort of thing being done regularly was regarding the Renegades mini-corps, who used corporate gigs as part of the fundraising required to move the full corps cross-country every year. I would hope that other all-age corps or mini-corps have picked up on the idea. To do this well, you need a local base of experienced, talented performers who can learn a wide repertoire and adapt to any venue on the fly. Not that good a match to the modern junior corps, whose members are mostly unavailable (students) and faraway during the off-season.

OK, but do you have any issue with where they seek that leverage? There are innumerable sources of income they can explore, such as souvie sales; education/clinic/master-class marketing; performance for pay outside of the DCI arena; event hosting/coordination/ticketing for drum corps, marching band or similar activities; equipment endorsements; grants. Seeking to increase their income by taking income away from other DCI corps, however, crosses a line morally, rationally and logically. Regardless of whether you believe in the fallacious "draw" of these seven corps....if you also believe that the other corps are worthwhile, how can you support a business philosophy that only works for some corps at the expense of others?

As the person who covered that story for Drum Corps World, perhaps I can clarify a bit. Yes, it is true that at one point in time (2004, IIRC), DCI changed appearance fees so that every world-class corps would receive the exact same amount per show. However, at the same time, they instituted a revenue-sharing system based on a secret formula that at the time was intended to incentivize best practices....but in implementation, has really just become another way to pay the winners more. So while each corps leaves the Georgia Dome with an equivalent check in hand on that last weekend in July, overall WC pay has never been leveled. Not even close.

I was thinking we should have a forum for people who just want to complain about what's on the other forums.