LER Director

I don't often post but felt the need to clarify a few things. As Gene said, then we learn. Lake Erie Regiment (the corps we founded and ran for 12 successful seasons) went inactive in 2006 due to a lack of membership and the growing lack of fundraising ability. (casino coming in really hurt the bingo games and caused it to fold) In the years since we tried to hold all together but could not. Our Board (of which many are memebrs of the T'birds and the new Thunder board) met in October and decided to close our office on 38th street, move enough stuff to still run the DCI show and our other fundraisers to my house and basement and then allow the new Thunder to take FREE OF CHARGE our entire collection of instruments and uniforms, our truck and much much more. The thought was that they could use it to try and establish the Thunder. As time went on, we of Lake Erie Fanfare ran our traditional Sportsman's Raffle with the Thunder but actually gave the Thunder the entire proceeds keeping nothing. This was our hope to help financially establish them. They also offered to assume the costs for the Regiment winter guard, in essence becoming the performance entity and we of the Fanfare would now become the "show" entity. In order to further help them, we have to date paid all the guard bills and will work with our friends at the Thunder to close up the season soon. The Presque Isle Percussion was a separate entity run by one of our former members who approached us in 2007 about using the percussion equipment and so forth for this new program. We happily agreed and over their 3 years of existence, they used all of our equipment and several of the vehicles too. But again, they were not a part of Regiment, merely a group we decided to help out as best we could. Being at the point in my life where I needed a break from the every day grind that it really is to put out a drum corps, I respectfully did not join the board of the new Thunder (also an independent organization). As such, I never went to any rehearsals but had been hearing great things and reading almost every day that it was coming together. But then again, you don't have to tell me twice about disappointments on quits and so forth. So that's the facts on the organizaitons for everyone. And I'm sure Gary Matczak will bear me out on all of these as being true. The Thunderbirds exist as their own group, THe Thunder is on it's way to do that, the Presqe Isle Percussion exists as it's own group and lastly, the Lake Erie Fanfare exists as a non profit to present the DCI show, the Regiment guard and whatever else in the future we can make work. It is our mission to help EVERYBODY trying to keep the marching music alive in this area and so we try to fulfill. Again, just so you know who did what or tried to do what. As for the Regiment guard becoming the Thunder guard, it was always thought that some of the memebrs might be interested in going over to the program, but certainly nothing that could have been promised. I think the person who talked about kids and parents and working over the summer, and college, etc has the right road to travel on with that one. With the economy so bad, parents are now having the kids work to make ends meet. Perhaps that's even a lot of the reason we ran into the membership problem at the Regiment. But in closing, we are disappointed as hell that it didn't work but surely there's no need to get in the blame laying rut. Putting a corps together from the ground up IS very difficult to do. I know. I did it. And with the help of a LARGE BOATLOAD of crazy people who believed in me and my crazy idea! Especially the girl I married. Keep at it. You will succeed!

Eric, Well, in the early years, the "weekday" DCI shows had really heavy lineups but as time has gone on, you'll notice that most of the M-F shows such as ours have a mid range line-up. The Sat DCI Events are the places for going to see several of the biggest corps as the shows are run by or in partnership with DCI. It is one way that DCI supports itself. We weekday shows still exist and are really helping the corps "connect the dots" so to speak and still bring the activity to our immediate area. Sure, we'd love stronger line-ups but we still want to balance things out between cost, the travel laid upon the corps to get in and out of here and what the fans here want. (For instance, 5 of our 7 corps drove 7 hours from Belding, Michigan after a Sunday night show, did ours on Monday and then drove 5 hours on Monday night to Hornell, NY. Lots of travel.) Having the Regiment out for 12 years certainly made me appreciate these points a whole lot more than I did before. I hope that we can keep on going here - after all, next year should be our 25th Anniversary Show! And in the past, DCI has been quite generous in granting large anniversary shows so we have our fingers crossed! But still, I'd really like to ensure that there will also be a 26th Anniversary and so on too. Both the Arts Council and the Erie Community Foundation DO help support us in various ways but the City has never done anything as you so accurately sense. Even the Chamber of Commerce which is supposed to support us chooses to charge an astronomical price just to be listed in their "Events Guide" One would think this should be FREE? It sure would be nice to be appreciated and HELPED rather than TAXED. And as you know, we've run bingo here for years to support the corps, winter guard and now even the show. Imagine what the casinos have done to our former money maker. Anyway, we are trying hard to find out if it's the lineups, the stadium, or just plain "don't like what the corps are doing anymore" that has caused our crowd to drop as much as it has. I know Erie is really not a large market in the whole scheme of things BUT, we were alive and rolling before either of the 2 Pittsburgh, the Buffalo and the former Cleveland shows were started. I'd hate to think that we might not be able to continue just because they are larger cities and can draw more people in. Thanks again for your thoughts and hope that you still enjoy the corps - it IS still all about the kids!

Thank you Gary and others for posting several answers. I rarely post anything but thought I should help define what it takes to put on such a show and the reasons why we tried the experiment of moving the show site this year. The show at McDowell had a lot to do with the costs of renting Vet's Stadium ($1,500 for base rent PLUS $1,300 to turn on the lights; The specified use of "off duty City of Erie Police Officers" for security at an addl' $800; NOT A DIME from the concession stands; the City of Erie Entertainment Tax of approx $800; no parking available (A HUGE complaint from the crowds over the years) and the figure is approx $4,400!! At McDowell, they were great to work with and the charges totalled $1,550 PLUS we received the money from the concession stands (which we ran). A savings of $2,850 +. When you consider that in 2005 we had over 2,700 people attending the show then in 2006 there were 1,880 people and this year only 1,321 attending, the committee felt we had to do something to try and stay viable! Neither ticket nor ad prices have risen in years yet attendance has fallen dramatically. (And with the figures from last year which WAS at Vet's, you can't just say it was the venue.) We wanted to keep the show affordable for families. And we offered discount band tickets yet only 65 band members from 3 groups purchased tickets compared to over 1,200 kids back in the late '90's! Why aren't these kids coming any more? We actually offer them even MORE discount now than we did back then. Bottom line is that it is VERY expensive to host a show such as the Fanfare. Just the DCI contract alone was $18,500. All included, we likely spent over $35,000 to pull it off. And no, we did NOT break even. Hopefully this will help explain why we are looking at every way we can to save costs so that we can CONTINUE to bring this show to our area. I too missed the sound that rang in the stadium forever but faced with the fact of possibly no longer being able to host a show due to costs, a diminished sound sure seems to be better than NO SOUND! As for the announcers, there WERE two - Jerry Anderson of the Millcreek School District and Brad Bell - a former LER staff member who was in the area and offered to help at the show with his announcing. Sincere THANKS to both of these gentlemen!

Don't know for sure, but try contacting Steve Vickers at the 21st Century Foundation. (Steve is also the owner publisher of Drum Corps World) I know several corps (including us) have donated items and uniforms, etc over the years, perhaps he can help with some drums. Just a thought.

As far as a corps "owning" or "operating" a for profit business, is this legal? From what I've run across before, a local hospital owned land that was used as a marina in town with space being sold to any willing boater. The state got involved, found that the hospital violated it's own mission of health care by even owning the land for the marina and fined them as well as made them sell it off. Afterwards, our city also jumped in by claiming that 40% of the land is owned by non-profits and how terrible they all are for not paying city taxes. End result? Nearly every non-profit is now being coerced in one way or another to either donate to the city or have their entire tax exempt status challenged in court. Many have won but still some of the charities have lost. The post Office is even worse - they can open a charity's bulk mail and fine you for stuff they say is "non-mission related" True example - our corps had a picture at Bufflao finals years ago taken in front of the stadium. When we used it in our news letter, the post office refused the mailing becasue they said "You are showing the R--- W----- Stadium which is a for profit sports arena and you can't do that in a non-profit mailing." I am NOT making this up!

Hey guys, As someone who has just had to endure the"going inactive" problem, I can't speak for everyone but I know I can speak for our corps. We NEVER had any intention of not coming out this past season but when we got to camps and only 10 kids were coming, it made the point to us. In Division II,III we have to sign contracts just like the Div I corps and the penalty for not showing at any of these shows is $1,000. Therefore, our board looked at the 18 show schedule and decided that we couldn't chance $18,000 that kids would eventually show up. So we stopped. As far as doing the parades and local stuff, I'm all in favor and in fact, Lake Erie Rgeiment DID do plenty of that year in and out. Didn't mind it either. We did a nice balanced schedule that included both touring and local. But still, we got less and less local kids each year. Now, when that is the case and you don't own your own building or get to use a school free, what do you do with these kids from out of town? If you do a parade on Sat, and Sun then have a show on Thursday, your locals can go home. But the out of towners don't want to have parents driving hours each way to pick up one day and drop off again 3 later. Therefore food and travel, etc ARE real concerns. So are these out of town kids. We want them to be included too but we can't provide everything. So there are lots of problems to solve, but in our case it has TRULY been the fact that we don't seem to attract kids like we once did. Is this a sign of the times? Soccer, track, school bands that rehearse now all summer, increased costs of college? Lots of reasons. If you find an answer, please let me know - we WANT TO COME BACK IN 2008!!!

This has been one of the best threads I've seen on here in a long time! We still run bingo as we have a winter guard and hope to reactivate the corps next season. Although they are older we DO have some younger patrons coming and we hope to hold our own when the casino opens here next year. As far as sponsorships, etc. we seem to only get limited success with these as they tell us that drum corps doesn't involve enough people. ie why give to a corps with 30 kids when they can give to Boys baseball and hit 600? As far as the grants, if ANYONE can point us in the direction of where these foundations are, we will gladly commit the time to write. We have success with our one and only local foundation here in town but can't seem to get any further as all the ones we've tried say we are out of their geographical area. Also, anyone have info on the new "keep the kids healthy" programs? Seems like drum corps and keeping kids off their butts just go together well. Thanks and keep the info coming!

Chris As far as Insurance, we paid something like $1,800 for liability for the corps and shows, another $900 or so to the Scouts for coverage on the members, staff and support while on the road and (the biggie) over $5,000 for the vehicle insurance for the bus, truck, cookie and staff van. All told, we laid out about $8,000 for our insurance and I'm told that here in PA that is a good price! For the money, the Scouts policy is really good and it DOES actually cover any incidents as we have had to use it 3 or 4 times over the years. Another oddity I've noticed is that I always hear about corps who get home from tour and cancel their insurance the next day on their busses, etc. Here in PA if you cancel your insurance, you must take off and mail in your plates at the same time or you can be fined. Therefore, we have to keep ours in force year round. Seems insurance and bingo laws are vastly different from state to state.

I was just forwarded this thread and read thru most of the posts. I guess in speaking for our corps here(Lake Erie Regiment) the all age thought is one we are thinking about. Honestly though, it hasn't ogtten too much of a positive response so far. As far as recruiting, I know that going and changing the beast isn't likely going to give us the answer. Right now, while we were trying to field a division III DCI corps, we only had 3 or 4 local kids show up and the other 8 or 9 were from out of town. And our dues were still only $350 for the whole year not $1,000 as was mentioned for some Div III groups. But even so, when we did mostly local events and SOME competitions (1994, 1995, and 1996) the kids didn't come because they all wanted to be in a competitive corps that went all over and competed... etc. Well ,we gradually grew into a touring group and by joining DCM and DCI we were able to sustain a tour with shows and housing that pretty much got s through about 2 weeks in late June and early July and then come home for a few weeks and then go back out for aonther 2 weeks to Finals. Then we started getting jabbed in the scores because we weren't out there the 2 weeks we were off, so you had to do more. Anyway, my point is that if we try and come back as a "something" group that does mostly local stuff, I don't know that we will get the people whether they are under or over 22 years of age. We will still be small and the most often heard comment is "I want to play in a BIG corps." If they only realized that by staying, they would BE that big corps they so desire. And of course, I would never go up against or try to pull people from the Thunderbirds. We get along too well for that! In whatever age or size. Then, there IS an issue since we are chartered as a Boy Scout Post in part due to the provided insurance. They make an execption now to include the few members that are 22 but as a rule, that insurance will go away if we went all age. There's also the thoughts associated with sponsors and businesses giving money - would they rather give it to the youth corps or the all age corps? What about the parents of younger members? Will they be apt to let their kids go on the road to anywhere with such a mixed age group? I can remember vividly a set of parents who met with me for over 2 hours once becasue they didn't trust us with their daughter for the traveling aspect and that at face value of being Boy Scouts and a junior corps with strict rules and chaperones. On the flip side, will the older members of the all age corps come to us if they know, for example, that they can't take off at night and go out for a beer because we've got a schedule to keep. (Again, on the road to anywhere, you still have travel and feeding issues to deal with). Will they want to give up some of their "freedoms" in order to be in an all age corps here or will they want to make their own rules because that's what they do in their own normal lives? Would they pay dues to help get the group along? Well I guess I've posted enough already. I just wanted to point out that there's a LOT of issues for a group like us to wrestle with if we wanted to consider doing all age. My major question is still this, why don't we get any support? Isn't the program we offered one that would strengthen all band members? Keeping a horn on a kid's face all summer should count for something yet it seems we are not endorsed by the local bands. Why when we have a great show in just 2 weeks are there only 2 local bands that have taken us up on the discounted tickets we provide? It seems that we might not be giving them what they either want or need. This is where my concerns are right now. Maybe we've outlived our usefulness. To everybody that's still out there - I wish you all the best! I promise not to post any more novels!

While it sure would be nice to know FAR in advance when and where your show will be, it in reality just doesn't happen as often as anybody would like it. Being both a corps and a show sponsor for many years, there are always glitches that happen in the most detailed and meticulous plans that simply are out of anyone's control. The other posts mention school boards and fields being redone - it is all very true and although a problem, it is one that both the corps and DCI seem to deal with pretty well each year. Having traveled near Cap Sound the last 2 years it seems that the problems can be dealt with through friendships established with sponsors and corps. It sure helps your day when you get stuck with no where to go due to a late show drop and can call a show sponsor in a nearby area and have them say "Point your bus our way. We have a place for you!" Or "You can stay with us". Drum corps and friendships - can overcome a lot. Also, I do believe DCI and the 2/3 BOD do their very best all the time - again, when you come right down to it - none of us OWN the schools or stadiums - we have to ask to use it. And sometimes, the people in charge just won't allow us to. What can you do?

Still following this one along. I guess a "council" of members might not be a bad idea and one I would consider for my corps in the future. But my "recruiting" and/or "retention" I think had some other issues. First off, as far as communication on "when and where" with prospective and returning members, I know we e-mailed the info, posted on our web, called the kids and also sent info in the regular mail. I know I personally followed thru on each and every interest survey and based on the responses I was getting thru the e-mail, I fully expected about 50 people at camps. Yet when camps actually came, only 10-12 people were showing. After seeing what has been said in this discussion, if it was issues from the past, why would people string the corps along? But anyway, I don't think it was a lack of communication. Look at my posts - I can't even get them down to a couple short sentences. Think of what I must put out to the prospective members!

Interesting thoughts from Iplaytimpani and soonerfan004! I'm curious though to sooner - exactly what kinds of topics came up and were worked out through this "council" if you will? I know we never formally had such a "feedback" group in place and am curious as to what types of things the members were willing to bring up? It could be a great idea as long as it didn't turn into the weekly gripe session! I know we had some meetings over the years when the members would request it, but often times, they asked to have NO staff or managment present which I took to mean it was an issue they wanted to address by themselves, for themselves. Perhaps a council would be a more positive step in this direction. And as timpani puts it, managment does need to know what is going on within the membership. Where I guess I would draw the line though for our corps is when members would want to meet to try and change rules that were.. simply put... rules. For example, males and females have ALWAYS slept on opposite sides of the gym. That is a rule we had since our inception, something we promise the parents in our literature, and I think most will agree, it is a good rule and there for the member's protection. Another one is, we insist our members wear hats and most of the time, shirts. The reason? Not because we don't enjoy the suntans but rather because 1) the school we used for our home camps had a rule for the females (no sports bras or halters allowed on premise) so we equally brought that on to the males as well; and 2) with all the info available now about skin cancer from direct sun, it seems wise to look out for the members health. Anyway, I will keep checking here (and apologizing to Allegiance Elite for getting off the main track of mourning yet another friend not on tour this summer). Or if you guys would rather, e-mail me direct. Would love to carry on the conversation.

Friends, I am greatly saddened by AE's announcement to go inactive. As one who traveled side by side with them over the last several years, they were a good corps with great people! But I wanted to add my 2 cents to the discussion on the Canadian corps going inactive with this thought - it's not just you! Look at the state of the Divisino II,III corps here in the States as well. This season alone we've had to go inactive, the Marion Cadets have also, now the Americanos plus the Bandettes and Pride of the Lions from your country and even tonight I see that Kiwanis Kavaliers are also pulling out of the tour for this year! I can state with accuracy that our (Lake Erie Regiment's) major problem was a lack of members. While money would be difficult, I think we could've made it there, but without the membes, there is no corps. I've heard a lot about "poor recruiting" and the like but as one who actually DID it, we recruited as much as we possibly could and expected 60+ kids at first camp. Imagine my surprise when ony 10 actually showed. Is it apathy? Is it lack of knowledge of corps? Can we find out before there will be NO MORE CORPS LEFT? I'm wondering if Allegiance had a similar experience in this regard? Again, you will be sadly missed and I will wear my AE shirt that your tour director gifted me with 3 years ago with pride!

Hey everyone - I'm surprised people are still talking about us! I have a question for Center X who seems to know our organization somewhat. Do you have any suggestions as to what the new recruitment strategies should be? I am serious on this because I do wish to restart this corps and ANY ideas may be of help to us so I thought I'd ask this person and anyone else out there who is interested for any thoughts he or she may have. I thank EVERYONE who has been so supportive of us over the last month and also those who have shared some memories of the LER from our past. Let me ask you ALL to help us make sure that these aren't the only LER memories that there will be! Help us get the kids to make a strong come back in 2007!

Only providing facts to the earlier posting about my corps. We did not go to finals twice to the best of my recollection: Florida and Denver as we couldn't afford the trip in terms of cash (true) but also in terms of enough staff and support people due to running out of vacation time. Last season we performed in 22 shows which I believe was very respectable for a Div III corps. As mentioned, we did attain finalist status at DCI's Our dues were $350 not $1,000 Last year we accepted an educational endorsement from Yamaha and replaced the entire pit ensemble with all brand new instruments. More replacements were to come in the future. The year before last, we replaced our entire fleet with newer busses, trucks and staff vans to enable us to travel better. Our staff was comprised of some of the finest people I have ever had the chance to work with. They were the best and did a great job. And lastly, we did most of all this with volunteers so we could keep the experience affordable for the kids in our area. The money actually went into the fuel tanks, food and housing. These are the facts, not emotions, just facts. Thank you!