SWriverstone
-
Posts
26 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Posts posted by SWriverstone
-
-
2 minutes ago, ouooga said:
Since we're throwing around degrees and how they apply to drum corps, I have a BS in Marketing, an MA in Psychology, and myriad certifications mostly leaning toward the former. SCV 2018 was cool, and it is marketable.
There's a handful of shows and a handful of corps that are really great at creating accessible shows. Accessible to the common viewer (so, not drum corps people, and borderline not even music people). SCV 2018, Boston 2018, the second half of Bluecoats 18, all of Bluecoats 16 and 17 (I'm forgetting many many, but you get the tone I'm talking about) are perfect in their ability to showcase the activity to a wider audience. There's goosebump moments, wow moments, and in general just coolness. They don't lack cheese necessarily, but they do it in a way that doesn't make the eyes roll. They don't try to showcase nuances that only a hard core fan would get, but instead focus on drawing everyone in. They appeal to the masses the same way a Cirque show might - I assume most people in a Cirque du Soleil show don't have an intimate knowledge of acrobatics, but they definitely enjoy what they see.
I'm not sure what the goal of this original post was, but my own personal goal, or vision, or whatever you want to call it, is to make drum corps easily appreciated by more people outside of the activity. Not mainstream - that'll never happen - but requiring significantly less explanation for the laymen to appreciate it. There are many many parts of this year's show that could be chopped into snackable social media content, and it has the potential to be shared outside of drum corps circles. That's marketable, and I love it. SCV 2018 achieved something that can be appreciated outside of our die-hard audience, and for that I applaud them.
Sorry ouooga—let's see how the activity is doing in 10 or 20 years. Then tell me if SCV 2018 is marketable. And anytime you'd like to convene a focus group of people on the street and ask them to compare SCV's music to the examples i posted above, I'd be happy to do it with you if we can find funding to do it. Because I'm 100% certain the average person on the street would NOT find this music satisfying to listen to. Sure, they might be impressed with the visuals...but not the music.
Scott
-
12 minutes ago, StarOrg said:
We all know that programs are written for the judging community and whatever they are rewarding. They are not created for the general audience. This has been the case for a long time now.
I also agree with a number of statements the BoyWonder made earlier. SCV's execution of this product was stellar! However this era of experimentation is here to stay.
I guess you're right StarOrg. And it's really sad, because drum corps as an activity will NEVER grow if it stays on its current path. If everyone's okay with it remaining a "music education insider's activity" forever, then okay. I'd like to see more.
Scott
-
Lots of interesting posts and points—thanks!
On the definition of quality—lots of people put forth the notion that "there is no such thing as definable quality." Maybe. But if you follow this concept to its logical conclusion, then DCI wouldn't exist—because there would be no competition. Why? Because you can no more or less define "quality" in music than you can in execution. Just because a row of musicians marches in a flawlessly straight line or a mathematically precise curve isn't "proof" that it's "high-quality marching."
Yes, DCI *attempts* to set forth standards by which certain aspects of a show are judged objectively—but it's just as subjective as me saying SCV's music was an epic fail. Even when given clearly-defined criteria, everything judges do is subjective. They are expressing their opinions about who is 1st, who is 2nd, and so on. (If someone has some omnipotent, mechanically precise method for determining who executes the best, please enlighten us!)
If you think I'm undermining my own argument, bear with me—in the absence of any real ability to judge objectively, subjectivity is all we have. If we don't at least try to establish some definition of quality, then we're totally unmoored—just a bunch of babbling fools making progress toward...nothing.
---
Getting back to the issue of SCV's music—some here seem to think I lack the ear to understand it. Again, I love a lot of music considered "difficult" by most people. I love Charles Ives' Concord Sonata. I'm no stranger to dissonance, odd-meter rhythms, abrupt transitions, non-chord tones, bitonalism, etc. And yet I still thought SCV's show was an awful mashup filled with jarring transitions and musical filler.---
I'd really like to continue the thread and try to add to the conversation, but (contrary to those who suggested I don't have enough going in my life) I have a busy life with a family, kids, and a great job with en environmental nonprofit, and I just don't have the time. Haters and single-syllable grunters rejoice! YOU WON!!!
Thanks to those who made intelligent, reasonable posts—I really appreciate your replies!
Otherwise, this whole thread has left me believing that DCI has a serious case of "The Emperor's New Clothes" going on: drum corps fans have become so blinded by flashy baubles in the form of scatter drill, props on the field, hornline choreography, amplified digital samples and the like that they've forgotten how wonderful it is when a corps plays music that the crowd can actually relate to and groove with. And imagine how amazing corps shows would be if you added the scatter drill, choreography, props, etc. to an accessible musical show!
It's also clear that as a youth activity, drum corps will never grow beyond its current state without making shows more accessible and entertaining. You can deride that as lowest-common-denominator BS all you like, but it's just reality. (What's that? You think the activity is healthy and growing? Look around a bit.) If you want drum corps to be what it currently is: an insider's activity where the target audience is corps alums, parents, staff, corps members, and every high school and university band director in the nation, then Hallelujah!
But if you'd like to see every major city in the country have a great corps—and see the activity catch on in a meaningful way in smaller cities and communities (and internationally), shows like SCV's will not get you there.
Scott
PS - A couple folks asked me what drum corps shows met my criteria for great music? I could pull a list together, but it's pointless—because most of the list would be of shows from 10, 20 and 30 years ago—which many here would laugh at as being old-school and irrelevant. This is because "old-school" drum corps relied mainly on the music to sell a crowd (because they didn't have much else to offer).
• For SCV, my "Exhibit A" is their 1999 opener "The Canyon." Absolutely brilliant musically (and supported by a drill that perfectly fit the music).
• Another brilliant SCV opener: 1985's "Festive Overture" (Shostakovitch)
• The Cadets entire 1983 show: Rocky Point Holiday was one of the greatest openers in DCI history, bar none.
• Phantom Regiment's "Malambo" in 1979I could go on—the point is NOT that the visuals of the above examples compare with today's. The point is, minimize your browser window and just LISTEN. If you''d really rather hear SCV's music from this year's show than the above examples, I just shake my head.
-
Sorry—forgot to add: I really don't think my Juilliard degree means much, and shouldn't have mentioned it—because it clearly derailed parts of the conversation. I only mentioned it to show that I'm not a musical amateur, but someone with somewhat high-level musical training and professional performing experience. That's it. If I thought my Juilliard degree meant so much, I wouldn't have abandoned music as a career 25 years ago and launched a now-very-successful career in marketing and communications.
Scott
-
1
-
-
Hi again all—dipping in and out of the thread throughout the day while I get real work done. :-)
The highly critical nature of my OP was calculated to get some attention—but unlike a lot of clickbait, I'm trying to elevate/extend the convo beyond "Gotcha!" In hindsight I could have been softer in my opinion of SCV's show. Putting some people on the defensive is never a good thing (because some people lash out and aren't receptive to anything else). But the truth is, a lot of people have been saying what I'm saying for years—and it hasn't made a bit of difference (again—in my opinion).
IMO, from a musical perspective, drum corps has gone down what I think is the wrong path—that is, taking a longer original composition and trying to edit it to fit 11 minutes. That's like trying to show only 25% of DaVinci's Mona Lisa—it doesn't work, and results in fragmented music with rushed transitions. On the other hand, there are plenty of original compositions that are 11 minutes long (or shorter) that could make great shows. No—I don't have an example off the top of my head...wait, I do! another great SCV example: Shostakovitch's Festive Overture (1985).
A good friend of mine suggested that I should never use examples like that from drum corps' past because it'll just brand me as an "old fart" who is irrelevant now. But (with respect to my friend), there is a LOT we can learn from the past. (And it's interesting that nobody has commented on my earlier example of another fantastic SCV musical opener, The Canyon.) There is no law that says drum corps must "innovate or lose." Judges aren't required to reward innovation—they can also reward meaning and emotion, which are entirely independent of innovation. (I'd suggest meaning and emotion are more important than innovation.)
It's also a mistake to assume the most technically demanding shows are the most difficult. That's complete BS. Ask any professional musician what's harder to SELL to an audience: a blistering-fast piece filled with 16th-note runs and technical fireworks? Or a slow, sustained piece that builds to a climax after several minutes. Most will say the latter is FAR more difficult to do well. I'm not suggesting music shouldn't be one or the other—both are good. But DCI has been sucked down the same vortex of the Olympics: if some is good, more is better (More speed! More acrobatics! More props! More everything!)
And what happens when human limits are reached? Several good pieces have appeared in the media lately pointing out that this is exactly what's happening in the Olympics—the limits of human performance are here—and times (for timed sports) aren't getting faster. So now what? What's a drum corps gonna do when you can't play more notes or have more props on the field?
BariGirl78—you ask some good questions. I still need to listen to the other shows from the top 12 this year. (Stay tuned.) As far as my musical tastes go, they're incredibly broad—which is one reason why I think my opinion is well-informed. I love classical (from every century), jazz (whoever mentioned jazz failed to recognize that "jazz" is about as broad a category as "classical"), pop and rock from every decade (but particularly the 60's, 70's, and 80's), gospel, blues (both the Stevie Ray Vaughan kind and the Mississippi John Hurt kind), African gyilli music from Ghana, Indonesian gamelan, Latin music of all kinds, 20th-century minimalism—the list goes on and on. I listen to all this stuff on a regular basis.
On page 6 of this thread, MarimbaManiac suggested that composers like Persichetti, Sessions, Cage, Stravinsky, etc can't be considered avante-garde anymore. I disagree! Maybe they aren't considered avante-garde in music schools, but (in case you didn't notice) the general public never got as far as any of those composers. So in that sense they absolutely are (still) avant garde. (Maybe in another century the public will catch up—who knows?) You think John Cage is "old school?" Try performing his Third Construction flawlessly. And what about a piece like Frederic Rzewski's Les Moutons de Panurge? You think that's old school??? It's every bit as "innovative" as anything with that label today.
I've gotta go for now, but maybe a good related question is: who is the audience for drum corps? And more importantly, who should it be? Clearly a lot of people think the audience for drum corps shows is made up almost entirely of music school students or graduates who are drum corps fans. Because if anyone thinks the general lay public is going to love a piece like Metropolis 1927, you should spend some time listening to FM radio. (I think DCI would be shocked to find out how quickly their fan base would grow if shows were more accessible to average audiences-which could easily be done without dumbing them down.)
More later!
Scott-
2
-
1
-
-
Thanks for all the good replies everyone. Of course—everything I say is my opinion. It's my hope to sway some people to my way of thinking, and I know everyone won't agree.
To those who asked, I've NOT watched other shows from this year yet, but will—and am happy to offer my thoughts on them. And you'll never hear me attack anyone (or their opinions) personally—though sure—I have no problem with calling SCV's show a musical fail.
And there are probably some who'll say "well if you haven't watched any other shows then shut the eff up because your opinion is meaningless." I think much in these conversations is timeframe-dependent. Most younger drum corps fans by default will think only the last few years of shows is important and everything earlier than (to pick a year at random) 2014 is ancient history and lame. LOL
There are other folks (I'm one of them) who've followed the activity for decades and have a higher-level view of how it's evolved over the years. I don't expect someone who's 18 to be able to effectively compare the music in today's shows to the music in a 1999 show. I haven't yet watched all the top 12 shows from this year, but I've watched a lot of shows over the past many years.
Speaking of 1999 (and maybe this will better frame my original post), Santa Clara's opener that year, "The Canyon," was one of the greatest openers in drum corps history. Musically, it was brilliant—one seamless musical thought from beginning to end, supported by a spectacular drill that perfectly fit the seamless flow of the music. Was the execution sloppy? Sure—but it still packed an incredible emotional punch. (I could say the same about many other SCV openers and shows from the past.)
I'll address a few specific posters' thoughts and comments later-gotta get some work done now. :-)
Scott
EDITED TO ADD: Just wanted to say "The Canyon" has all of what I believe are the critical elements of great music: it has a sustained melodic line that repeats (and you can remember); it has a steady rhythmic pulse that runs throughout the entire opener; it sustains a single musical thought beautifully from a quiet beginning...to an climax...and then a long, gradual decrescendo to a beautiful ending.
ALSO: I should have clarified a few things in my original post: first, as others have said, I think the individual performances of the corps members in SCV's show is amazing. And I'm making no comment whatsoever on the quality of the choreography, the execution of difficult moves, etc. The core of my argument is that everything else in drum corps depends on the music—if a corps went out on the field and did nothing at all but stand there and play great music, I'd be willing to bet that people would enjoy that show a lot more than one where the instruments got left on the sideline for the entire show while the corps ran and danced their butts off doing amazing physical feats in perfect synchrony.
-
1
-
-
I fully expect many people to make the "all music is subjective" argument. (Or the "personal taste" argument.) What I'd love to hear (which admittedly takes a bit more time) is more detail—focusing particularly on the underlying elements of (in this case) SCV's music that you liked.
It's certainly okay to say "I liked it." I'm just politely asking people to explain why they liked it. (I'm happy to explain further why I didn't—but it'll take some time and specific musical references to the show.)
Heck, I'm even willing to watch (and listen) to SCV's show a dozen more times in a genuine attempt to appreciate it. But one of my points is that I shouldn't have to.
Scott
-
1
-
-
- Popular Post
There's a well-known and studied psychological phenomenon called the mere-exposure effect (also called the familiarity principle). It means people develop a preference for things merely because they are familiar with them. Put more simply, if you listen to lousy music long enough, you'll start thinking it's good. (This isn't opinion—it's fact.)
It's clear that DCI audiences are suffering from this effect in a big way. Witness what DCI judges considered the pinnacle of shows in 2018 by awarding it a championship (SCV). Now I get that drum corps is more than just music—it's "art" (though I could make a case for why it really isn't, even at the highest levels). Drill, choreography, difficulty, etc. are all part of the activity. But the emotional underpinnings of any show are the music. You aren't going to be swept to emotional highs by a single high rifle toss or a big two-handed rimshot. The music matters—a lot.
I've spent countless hours of my life studying, listening to, and performing music of all kinds. I have a BM degree from Juilliard—which doesn't make me more knowledgeable than anyone else—it simply certifies that I'm very knowledgeable about music—and what distinguishes good music from bad music. Contrary to popular belief, music isn't "in the ear of the beholder." It's entirely possible to judge it objectively and even place it (roughly) on a universal scale from bad to good. (If you're someone who believes the quality of music is entirely subjective, you're a hypocrite—because you logically must say the same about everything in life—which I'm sure you don't.)
So on to SCV's show: I've watched it several times. Not dozens or hundreds of times—because remember the mere-exposure effect? I'm not going to destroy my judgement by watching it every day for the entire summer (like the corps members and staff do). The first criterion for great music is that—on the first listen—it moves you. If it doesn't, then it could easily be argued the music has failed. Some might argue that it's not just the music in drum corps that should move you, but the collective experience of music, drill, and choreography. Fair enough. But nobody would argue that the music has a far greater impact on a show's general effect than either drill or choreography. And drill and choreography don't even come close to having the emotional impact of music.
I watched SCV's show with an open heart and mind. I love SCV! I always have. And I give every show the benefit of the doubt because I want to be moved emotionally. When I watch a drum corps show, I want to have tears in my eyes. I don't give a flip about how cleanly a difficult move is executed. It's interesting, but that will never move me to tears. (That's a bit like trying to be moved to tears by a brilliantly-designed coffeepot—it ain't gonna happen.) While watching (and listening) to SCV's show, I paid attention. I focused on the melody (or absence of it), the harmonies, the transitions, the tempo changes—I sat back and let it wash over me without judgement.
It left me cold and feeling completely flat.
After hearing it the first time, I thought "Okay, I'm just not familiar with it." (There's that principle again!) So I watched/listened again. And again. And in what is a testament to the absolute sterility of the show's music, familiarity didn't help at all. Every time I listened to SCV's show, it was just as pointless and unemotional as the previous listening. Here's what I noticed, repeatedly:
• There were no discernable, memorable melodies in the show—and by melodies, I mean a sustained melodic line lasting at least 8 bars (at the same tempo) that very clearly moves from point A to point B in an emotional arc. (Think of just about any Beatles song, any Rodgers & Hammerstein musical, or any Beethoven symphony.) Even after repeated views, I couldn't sing along with 2 bars of this show (and I have a good ear for remembering melodies).
• There was no sense of a grounded tempo anywhere in the show—by this, I mean a chance to get into a groove—to feel the pulse of the music and actually have a chance to tap your foot or rock gently along with it. Tempo changes were so frequent they suggested a kind of musical schizophrenia—arrangements driven entirely by the drill and perceived difficulty.
NOTE: Even some of the most brilliant, avante-garde compositions in music history hold to a steady tempo for at least 16-32 bars—I'm thinking of pieces like Stravinsky's Le Sacre du Printemps or Bartok's Concerto for Orchestra orJohn Cage's Third Construction.
• There was no overall sense of continuity—no feeling of going on a journey from the beginning of the show to the logical conclusion. Despite the flowery descriptions creative staff come up with to justify their shows, SCV's show was quite literally like a long series of 1- or 2-second cuts in a video, each one jarring, seemingly designed to be as abrupt as possible.
This was, plain and simple, an epic musical fail. (And therefore, a fail of a show—in spite of winning.)
Some of you reading this will think I just don't get it. Okay—I'll humor you: I get cubist paintings. I get architecture by Frank Lloyd Wright. And I get music by Steve Reich, Igor Stravinsky, Vincent Persichetti, John Cage, and countless other "challenging" composers. I have a very sophisticated musical ear. My favorite composer is Charles Ives—I've listened to his Concord Sonata hundreds of times—and every time I hear something I didn't hear before. (And trust me—Ives' Concord Sonata is light years ahead of any DCI show in sophistication.)
Some of you will think I'm just an old fart who doesn't understand current music. At this I just shake my head and laugh: have you noticed that people still love The Beatles, Beethoven, Mississippi John Hurt, and Joni Mitchell? This music isn't any less relevant and popular today than it was 25 or 100 years ago.
When it comes to music, you can't get rid of the fundamental elements that make music great without destroying it:
1. It moves you emotionally on the FIRST listen.
2. It is memorable—you can actually hum or sing some of it after one hearing—and ALL of it after several hearings.
3. It has a steady, consistent pulse that you can slip into and feel—in a sustained way—while you listen.SCV's show had NONE of these qualities on the first hearing (or second, third, or fourth). which is why I call it an epic fail.
What disturbs me even more than SCV performing this show (who has a long history of connecting emotionally with audiences through great music) is the fact that DCI judges apparently reward this "music" that is devoid of any characteristics of good music. Yes, I know—they're judging more than the music (I already acknowledged this), but the judging community has lost its way. Clearly judges are more focused on difficulty (in the form of chaotic, disjointed shows packed with tempo changes and 32nd-note runs) than they are on emotionally connecting with audiences.
---
In many ways, I guess we've gotten what we deserve. It's widely acknowledged that young people today have an average attention span of seconds. Maybe show designers are catering to this? Maybe we—as an American species—have lost the ability to focus on something more than 10 seconds without needing an abrupt change? Listen to pop music today and it's clear that it exists on a level far lower in intelligence than it ever has in the past (just look at all the hit songs about nothing more than partying). Even the Academy Awards have officially decided movie audiences are dumb–they've created a new Oscar for "Best Popular Film." (Because a popular film can't be intelligent or have depth.)If anyone out there disagrees with my premise that SCV's show was a musical fail (and I'm sure hundreds or thousands do), feel free to explain (hopefully in more than single-syllable words) why you think it was great. Tell me how this show moved you emotionally. And as proof, record yourself singing some part of SCV's show and post the MP3 here. :-) (Corps members and staff who performed/arranged the show aren't allowed–your impartial judgement is long gone).
Scott
-
12
-
5
-
7
-
7
-
2
-
Hi again to anyone reading this thread. :)
Once again, I've been completely out of the drum corps loop this season---I missed it, but life took me in some other directions (a job change as well as other hobbies like motorcycling, hang gliding, distance cycling, etc.).
It sounds like some people have gotten something worthwhile from my comments---I'm glad! And I'd still enjoy working with anyone who is interested. Just send me a private message and I'll be sure to stay on top of responses.
But this isn't a veiled attempt at getting teaching gigs---I'm happy to offer any advice here too. So feel free to ask any questions you might have here, and I'll do what I can to respond!
Regards,
Scott Wilkinson
Harpers Ferry, WV
-
To anyone reading this thread...I just checked in a few months after making all my earlier posts (life's kept me busy!). I'll try to monitor the thread a bit more often, but in case I don't, if anyone has any questions about timpani technique, scoring, etc. feel free to send me a private message---I'll get those regardless and am happy to help anyway possible.
If any drum corps staffs are interested in having me come do a timpani clinic for pit members, I'd be happy to do that as well, for only the cost of my travel expenses. Just send a private message and we can talk more.
Thanks,
Scott Wilkinson
(SWriverstone)
-
another thing on tuning, don't you hate it when you run a rep, play the whole thing solid and hit that last note flat.....yarg.....
Oh yeah...I had a COLOSSAL moment of stupidity like that once---playing timpani for a huge concert (1,000+ people in the audience) at the Spoleto Festival. We were doing Mahler's 5th Symphony---a huge symphony with a gigantic timpani part. At the end of the whole symphony, the GRAND CLIMAX!---the timpani play the 4-note melody in unison with the brass, fff. I completely spaced on a critical tuning change (after nailing it many times in rehearsal), and came crashing in on that melody with one note a full tritone away from the correct pitch---DOH! The lick was so hard there was no time to correct it without looking really bad...so I just crashed through it---fff---with a GLARING wrong note. The conductor made a really surprised and angry face at me and didn't want me playing for him ever again. I wanted to put a gun to my head! :( So we've all been there...
swriverstone, you've made a clear point that power was lacking in drumcorps timps...but have you thought about maybe drum corps timpani have a different approach for a reason? i'm certainly not trying to cause any unrest between you and i. because i got many comments on having a solid presence by the judges through the summer. just thinking maybe we're doing what's right for our activity.You make a good point, and sure---I'm willing to admit that drum corps timpani might just be a different sound, different approach, different reasoning. Lots of people have said they got compliments from judges on their solid sound and presence. Though I certainly don't know this (just a theory), I've suggested that those same judges might not have ever really spent a lot of time listening to professional symphony orchestras. I know it's common for many drum corps judges to be 100% band people---and have never really been involved in orchestral music in their entire careers. (Nothing against being a 100% band person!)
So...sure, if one's goal as a drum corps timpanist is to really integrate well with the keyboards in the pit---in other words, almost serve the role of an "ultra-bass keyboard instrument," then I think many people are doing an excellent job of that. And that could be a good thing! :)
My belief (and it's just another opinion) is that timpani are capable of not only blending with the mallets...but being a huge, powerful instrument that can actually support the entire horn line...and not just the pit. In other words, my philosophy of timpani is more that timpani are a solo instrument...and not just a section instrument. This is the role of timpani in an orchestra.
But I'll readily admit that outdoor vs. indoor acoustics are two WAY different situations! And it's a lot easier to play over a string section than 65 horns! :) I would LOVE to find a pit instructor (and music caption head) who is willing---for one season even---to pump up the timpani bigtime---through more player projection and (yes) amplification...and not back down when judges say "timpani are a bit overpowering"...and try to educate judges that this is the way timpani are supposed to sound! :)
Scott
-
I would say there are plenty of high quality timpanists out there. From 2005 alone, some notable timpanists include Glassmen, Crown, Bluecoats*, Phantom, and Cavaliers.
*Bluecoats guy has been there since 2000 and just aged out this year I believe. Ridiculous talent right there.
Hi Carl306...
Actually, the Bluecoats' timpanist---Greg Tsalikis---was once my student in an indoor drumline. :) Not that I take credit for his talent---it's all his!
Though my thread title ("Lame timpanists?") was intended to get peoples' attention, I do believe there are some good timpanists in DCI. I also believe much of that talent is still undeveloped because world-class timpani instructors are few and far between. (And I point to the lack of projection as one aspect of this undeveloped quality.)
As I've said before, it's difficult to become a truly great timpanist without playing in an orchestra full-time for at least a few years. Playing in a concert band or wind ensemble at a university is fine, but it's not the same level of experience a timpanist gets in a good symphony orchestra. I'm not bashing bands---just saying that the quantity of great (and demanding) repertoire for timpani is far greater in orchestral music than anywhere else.
I've been lucky enough to have that orchestral experience, and I'd like to do what I can to pass some knowledge on to people who haven't yet had that kind of experience.
Scott
-
Of course, my (lousy, busted old) timps were so bad that on second tour one of our drum instructors told me he thought the pitches were different from me to him (ie behind the drum to out front), because I have perfect pitch and judges kept commenting on pitch problems on the drums!
Yeah, the issue of what the pitch sounds like to you versus what it sounds to an audience member is a b*tch. About the only way anyone can address it is to get someone with a good ear up in the stands, and spend an hour tuning a pitch, then finding out if it's sharp/flat from the stands...and trying to detect a pattern.
I never did this in orchestral situations, just tuned as accurately as I could. Most conductors seemed happy with my tuning, but one could argue that they were too close!
It can definitely be tough deciding which pitch reference to go with---the pit? Or the horns? My choice would be the horns---as long as they're sounding pretty in-tune with themselves! I say the horns because the timp sound is more closely akin to low brass than to marimbas or vibes, which are radically different timbres. But of course the music might dictate this as well (e.g. tune the timps to the mallets if it's a pit feature).
Way back in '79-80, Art Fabrizio, timp/keyboard instructor for the 27th Lancers, had a great system for timp tuning: he'd signal from the stands---first, he'd hold up fingers indicating which number drum (1=bottom, 4=top), then for "sharp" he'd tug his ear lobe...and for "flat" he'd pat his hands against his chest. :) No reason not to use that system today!
Scott
-
That's what i did in the ballad this year! Thanks for all your help!
Sure MGC---by the way, who did you play for?
Scott
-
First of all, GREAT topic.
Second of all, I just have a quick question about the ranges of the drums. I have played timapni for two summers now, and I have had two different pit instuctors. My pit instructor this summer just recently recieved her masters from UNLV in percussion performance. I had a lot of E's, D's, and even Db's on the 32. Is there a way that you can get those notes to be more clear? I really enjoyed reading your highly qualified views on the instrument.
Hi MGCpimpOtimp...
Good question! Unfortunately, the short answer is...no. Even on a 32" drum, anything below an F is gonna start getting flabby, and there's no way around it. In the entire symphonic repertoire, it's rare to find Es and Ds ever scored louder than mezzo-forte. Any louder, and the "trash can" starts kicking in.
In marching band and drum corps pits, I'd never score below an F unless it was only during quiet sections of the show. If your parts call for fortissimo playing on a low E or D, they need to be re-scored!
Intonation-wise, you can get a clear pitch from those ultra-low notes...but again, only at volumes of mf or lower. It's critical to clear the head carefully (check that pitch is equal at every lug when mounting a new head) for these low notes to sound pure.
Ultra-low notes can sound great if scored well. For example, one of my favorites is a sustained mp or mf roll on an E or D...it's so much fun to be rolling incredibly slowly (since you never need to roll fast on those notes) and find the sweet spot where you only hear a single, pure, sustained tone.
Finally, those low Ds and Es can sound better when doubled an octave higher. You can often get away with this even when not scored that way just by playing less on the higher-octave note. The idea is the note at the octave just reinforces the pitch of the low note (but be sure your octave is in tune!). e.g., left hand plays mf on the low D while right plays p on the higher D.
Scott
-
SCVTeerav---you hit on probably the single toughest issue with timpani---tuning! As you guys know, there isn't any specific thing I can say in terms of getting the pitch "right." There are just too many variables. Even in a hypothetically "perfect" set of drums with "perfectly" mounted heads...the timbre of a timpano is enormously complex. With a good ear, you can hear all sorts of stuff going on besides the fundamental pitch. And different frequencies in the overtone range are going to cut through in different environments (again, piles of variables). Switch to harder mallets, and the higher frequencies get emphasized...switch to softer mallets, and the lower frequencies come through more.
You're absolutely right about pitches resonating more within a chord if they're a bit sharp or flat. Same goes for certain notes---some just sound better on a given drum.
I've actually never understood the whole A442 thing with mallet instruments. I'd like to get an explanation for this from the manufacturers. I don't know if it's done this way or not, but the entire horn line should tune to the vibes. Period. Horn players shouldn't be using digital tuners. Example: in a professional orchestra, the oboeist uses a digital tuner to get a perfect 440...then the rest of the orchestra tunes strictly by ear to the oboe. Nobody else has a tuning gauge on their stand.
Okay, maybe this isn't practical for drum corps. :) But do horn lines tune to A442? (I'm guessing probably not---they probably all use a Bb for tuning, right?) In any case, the whole point of tuning is to have a consistent pitch reference...and since you can't alter the pitch of the keyboards, they should be the master reference. (Unless they're hosed!)
I mentioned in an earlier thread the issue of tuning changes. I also mentioned that I think drum corps timpanists today do way too many of them...and arrangers don't write effectively for the timpani. I'm not "anti-tuning-change," I'm just "anti-400-tuning-changes!" Lots of players think it's cool to pedal melodic lines, and from a certain perspective it is...but it's incredibly hard to nail each pitch in a pedaled passage---I don't care how good your tuning gauges are or how familiar you are with the drums. Fewer tuning changes give you more time to check the pitch ahead of time (comparing it to known pitches the horns are playing), as well as adjust the pitch while playing to lock it in. Many of you often don't have time to do this effectively...and the intonation suffers.
Please don't think that a timpani book with fewer tuning changes would be boring. Not even close! Have you ever played Beethoven's 5th Symphony with a great orchestra? 2 pitches---that's it. And I guarantee you would have a near-religious experience playing that part! Same goes for countless other great works. There simply is no correlation between tuning changes, fun, and difficulty. None whatsoever. Sure, tuning changes are challenging...but I can give you a single 16th-note passage to play at 160bpm between 2 drums---no double strokes allowed---and you'd probably not be able to do it. (At least not without shedding it a lot!) Can you do cross-sticking effortlessly at 180bpm? Case closed. (Note: "real" timpanists never use double strokes---that's way bad juju! :))
My point in all this is to convince you that tuning---and tuning changes---are only a part of the art of playing timpani, but not the purpose of it. Just like 4-mallet keyboards. Some marimba players scoff at 2-mallet playing 'cause they think it's too easy, and "inferior" to using 4 mallets. That's sad, because they're two different techniques, each with advantages/disadvantages.
Anyway...I'm getting sidetracked. :) Back to tuning! Your goal is to get as clear and centered a pitch out of the drum as possible. Some of you may already be aware of this (either consciously or subconsciously), but here's a BIG tip: play as many notes as possible on as tight a head as possible. Ever noticed how a C (second space from the bottom on bass clef) sounds so much better on the 29" drum than the 26" drum? That's because the head is far tighter on the 29" drum when it's tuned to that C. The pitch is clearer, more focused, and your articulation is better.
Your goal is to translate this everywhere. For example: here are the "true" ranges of the drums in my experience---by "true" ranges, I mean the notes that actually sound good (meaning they're tuned with a pretty tight head)...note also I'm talking about louder playing levels (forte and above)...
32" drum - G to B
29" drum - A to D
26" drum - D to F
23" drum - G to B
Now you're probably thinking, no way! Way! The pitches I list above are the only pitches that are going to really sound excellent and centered, with a tight head. Anything below a G on the 32" drum will sound flabby. Ditto for a G on the 29" drum. You'll also notice that with the pitches above, each drum (except the 29") only has a good range of a third. That's it. When you voluntarily limit yourself to these notes, it makes pedaling melodic lines a bit more challenging doesn't it? That's why you shouldn't have so many tuning changes! (Is it all beginning to make sense? :))
Want to know an even better tip? This will instantly make you sound better---guaranteed! It's a technique that almost no American-trained timpanist uses, but is used today by many British timpanists: alter the sizes of your standard set up. So for a 5-drum setup, you would use (from the bottom up)...
32"
32"
29"
26"
23"
That's right! You use two 32" drums. Now the next thing you'll think is "Holy cow, that means I'll be crankin' the daylights out of that second 32" drum to get Cs and Ds on it!" You got it! You crank the daylights out of it---and the drum can handle it! What does this accomplish? It ensures that all your notes are played on tight heads. This should be mandatory for drum corps timpanists. Yeah, I know---those 32-inchers are monsters to lug around! But that's the price you pay for good sound!
This is a standard setup for timpanists in British symphonies...and they sound awesome. Playing on tight heads feels SO much better too---more rebound, better tone...and you never have that "beating a flabby box" feeling. (Ever notice how sometimes when you're rolling on a low note, the head almost gets on its "own roll" which doesn't synchronize with yours? That never happens on tight heads!)
So for you folks with more seasons ahead of you, go back to your pit instructors and say "We've got to get another 32" drum." They'll look at you like you're nuts, and you just smile and say "Trust me---you'll like it."
The bottom line for all of this is...play on tighter heads...hear a more centered, focused pitch...be better able to hear subtle differences in the pitch and adjust accordingly.
I think the best example of a tympanist really nailing this down is Phantom Regiment 1996. The presence is very strong and very intune to the necessities of the ensemble. It is interesting to note the presence on the recording difference in that tympani performance to that of 2003 tympani performances in the same venue, with more technologically advanced recording equipment, as the trends of the industry to to go.What are your thoughts on this?
Hmm...I'm not familiar with that year's Phantom show (wish I had more CDs and DVDs!) Was that the year the pit was staged out on the field? In either case, remember that regardless of technology, the recorded sound will always sound dramatically different than what the fans hear in the stands. (Particularly depending on mic placement.) Though recording technology has certainly improved in general, microphone design hasn't changed much in the past 10 years (in fact, some 20-year-old mics are in high demand today for their amazing qualities)...and mics are the most critical element in the signal chain. I'd like to know what other factors made '96 Phantom's timpani show so good?
Scott
-
I am interested in what you thought about my playing in Allentown. I play timpani for the Blue Devils. I had individual mics on each of my drums. I am shocked that you did not hear me.
Both Percussion Judges were ranting and raving about my sound presence being wonderful and some times to much. I play with French grip.Hi Amanda...I remember you! I actually watched you guys practice Friday (on the field right next to the stadium). As I recall, your technique looked solid...but...I think you could have played (at times) with more power.
When I said earlier that I "couldn't hear" timpanists, that wasn't literally the case---I could hear everyone...but I just don't think the volume was enough relative to the output of the rest of the pit, horns and battery.
Please understand that my perspective regarding volume and balance comes from years playing in a large, professional symphony orchestra indoors. In that situation, the volume of the timpani---again, relative to the rest of the orchestra---is much higher than in drum corps. You can hear this by listening to any good recording of a work with big timpani parts (e.g. Mahler, Tchaikovsky, etc.). In the big "hits" (to use a corps term), the sound level of the timpani alone is equal to the entire rest of the orchestra! When the timpani have a big "ff" entrance, you HEAR it (and feel it in the floor of the auditorium)!
That incredibly powerful presence of timpani is what makes it such an intense blast to play in an orchestra. We always joked that the timpanist literally "kicks the orchestra in the butt!"
Now in drum corps, it's obviously a different situation. You're outdoors (sound disappears immediately), you don't have a nice wooden stage to help resonate the sound, and you have one of the loudest musical ensembles on the planet behind you! So...some might suggest that timpani in drum corps can never have the same impact they have in an orchestra. I'd like to think otherwise, which is why I keep saying...more volume! :)
I should also add that my comments come from "live listening," as opposed to recordings. I'm sure when everyone listens to this year's CDs, the timpani will sound great. But that's because there's a big condenser mic right over you! (It would sound very different if they put the mics halfway up the stands!)
I don't know what the music background is of most DCI percussion judges...and I'm sure some have had orchestral experience. But I'd be willing to bet most don't (or at least haven't spent hundreds of hours listening live to professional symphonies). So I don't think their "audio frame of reference" is properly calibrated in terms of volume.
I also think (as I may have mentioned earlier in this thread) that there seems to be an idea amongst judges that timpani are a "finesse" instrument---and that if you aren't "coaxing" the sound out of the head (enhanced by lots of upward follow-through after each stroke) you're not being musical. Again, this is just not an accurate mental image of what timpani really are! All the "coaxing" and "finesse" stuff is valid---but only for beginners who don't know anything but to pound away with no technique. And all that "pull the sound out of the head" stuff goes out the window when you're playing fortissimo and higher.
Saul Goodman---the "father" of all professional timpanists in the US (he taught Vic Firth everything he knows, for example), once said to me (and I quote)..."You've got to BEAT THE #### OUT OF IT!!!" :) His point was there are times when NO finesse is involved in playing timpani---times when you have to give it 110%---absolutely everything you've got, and quite literally try to break the head! If---after a big, loud passage---your heart rate hasn't jumped up to 160 or more, you simply aren't putting enough into it. It's physical. And doing this does not make you "unmusical." It makes you a timpanist.
So in conclusion, I think that timpani could definitely be louder in drum corps---both from players giving it more effort...as well as through more amplification (if necessary).
I would love to see you at a few of our camps to put into action what you are talking about. There are not enough GOOD timpani players out there that are willing to share their knowledge and help us youngsters out.I'd love to come to a camp---all it takes is money. :) I'm just talking about the cost of the trip, since I live on the East coast. I might be able to figure out a way, and/or perhaps some organizations might be willing to help fund a weekend clinic.
I had the hardest book I have ever played this past season and felt that I gave everything I could give. If you remember any of my problems, please give me some solutions.Gosh, I'm sorry I can't remember anything that specific. But I will say this---I bet you could have played harder! :) I say that only because in my experience, most timpanists don't ever work enough on pure strength-and-chop-building. I don't say this critically, 'cause you're working hard enough just to get your technique down, to learn the book, work on intonation, etc. I'm sure you did give it everything you had...but imagine how much more you could have given if you had spent (literally) at least 1 hour a day for six months playing French grip, with the butt ends of big snare sticks, on a RealFeel pad until your hands and fingers HURT. :)
I love drum corps and I love timpani...so I'm happy to share the knowledge and experience I was lucky enough to acquire from some of the best timpanists in the world!
Scott
-
so it seems that one year was based on more staccato tech and one was more legato tech...hmmm...
Yep, sounds like that's what was going on. The reality is that they're both important---and I'd always teach someone both techniques at the same time.
one thing i know i'm good at though is tough pedaling passages. this past year i had an absolute ton and a half of changes. i pretty muched played the bari parts hehe...i think i counted 275 (which is probably a little bit low because i did it in my head and i suck at math and counting and stuff like that)Tuning changes are fun (and challenging)...but in my opinion, pit arrangers (and/or whoever else has a role in the timp parts) are way too carried away with tuning changes. I think a big reason I didn't see timpani players as physically into the parts as they should be is because you guys were all so busy pedaling your butts off!
Here's a radical thought---stand up! Yes, that's what I said---stand and play. I'd never play any other way, unless I absolutely had to sit for a series of rapid tuning changes, but then I'd stand up again. Timpani are a big, physical instrument. You've got to be able to move freely and fast around the drums, and you've got to use your whole body to really play well. Sitting on a stool is just too confining in my opinion.
Now I admit that if you've got 300 tuning changes then standing is tough---but remember, I said you shouldn't have so many tuning changes! Timpani---even in drum corps---aren't a melodic instrument. They provide harmonic support, and are used just to emphasize certain harmonic elements in a piece. To be playing the entire baritone part is overkill, and weakens the impact of timpani. Listen to any symphony by Mahler, and you'll hear exactly what I mean---you don't hear timpani all the time...but when you do hear them, it's electrifying because of the power and impact!
I often hear players say "I'm too tall to stand, and hunching over is painful." I agree! There is a better way to play standing...but it takes conditioning and effort---and pays off bigtime! I'm 6' tall, and I played standing for years and never had back problems. The secret? I stood "ninja-style." Yeah, sounds silly, but I'm very serious. When I played, I kept my back upright, and simply spread my feet/legs and lowered myself---almost a squatting stance. But I was constantly moving from side to side, just like a martial arts expert. This puts a burn into your thighs, and might not feel great in your knees. So you work up to it---over time, you'll develop far stronger quads and muscles supporting your knees. (I've never had a knee problem in my life---I think largely due to thousands of hours of "ninja-style" timpani playing!)
Trust me---if you think you can put your whole body into playing from a stool, you're wrong. You can put so much more movement and energy into your playing while standing---and it looks a lot better from the audience's perspective too! Finally, you'd be amazed at how many tuning changes you can do standing on one foot---not as many as using two feet on a stool...but again---you shouldn't have that many changes!
Scott
PS - There's no better way to get a real understanding of how to write for timpani than by listening to the masters---composers of great symphonic music. Here's a quick list of pieces that have awesome timpani parts...
Any Mahler Symphony (especially 2, 5, and 7).
Copland's 3rd Symphony (movements 1 and 2, especially)
Bartok's Music for Strings, Percussion, and Celeste
John Williams' score for the original Star Wars movie (from 1977)
Tchaikovsky's 5th and 6th symphonies
Respighi's "Roman Festivals"
There are lots more, of course...but you can't go wrong with these!
-
1. about french grip-i've been told both ends of the fulcrum strength are acceptable...in 2004 i squeezed the poop out of the mallets...this past year, less emphasis was placed on the fulcrum strength and moreso on the snap of the wrist...is it just two different schools of thought or what? both techniques required a ton of practice and both hurt quite a bit at points...
Hi CapRegTimp04...
I'm not quite sure what you mean by "both ends of the fulcrum strength," but I'm guessing you're wondering which is better---squeezing like crazy? Or being loose and relaxed? The answer is...both!
Playing timpani (like a lot of drumming) is a combination of arm, wrists, and fingers. If you're playing French grip, it requires more finger strength (particularly between thumb and first finger) than any other kind of drumming. Many timpanists don't play French grip because it's harder. Holding the mallets, say, like a tenor player (which is more like German grip) is easier...but I don't think it gives you as effective an "up" stroke and as free a rebound as French grip.
So the following comments are focused on French grip (though there is some overlap with other grip styles).
Every time you play, every part you play, your fingers are constantly tightening and loosening. When you want a more staccato sound, you tighten up. When you want more legato, you loosen up. Same goes for volume---when you're playing quietly (and legato) you loosen up...but when you need to play fortissimo, you tighten up. So there's a continuum of tensions---from loose to tight---that's constantly shifting depending on the music and the sound you're after.
Now here's where "finger chops" come into play: when you want a staccato sound for an extended passage, you've got to squeeze that thumb/first-finger hard! And if you don't have enough strength there, it hurts. More importantly, it's hard to focus on sounding good when your fingers are hurting. so you've got to strengthen that thumb/first-finger pinch.
Finger chops (referring to the thumb/first-finger pinch) are also critical when you're playing long, loud rolls. The louder the roll, the more the mallets travel up and down...and the more force is exerted on that thumb/first-finger pinch.
Alas, no pain---no gain. The only way to strengthen that thumb/first-finger pinch is to work on your chops---exactly the same way a snare drummer would---only you do it with French grip. Back when I was learning, I played a LOT on my knee. :) Almost every second I wasn't actually playing in a rehearsal, I was just doing single strokes and rolls on my leg. And here's a way to make doing that even more effective:
When you're practicing those French-grip single strokes, try to maximize the up/down range of motion of the mallets (using only wrists and fingers---not arms)...while simultaneously playing soft. In other words, look like you're playing loud...but play soft. This puts a huge amount of force and strain on your thumb/first-finger pinch, because with each stroke, it acts like a "brake" on the mallet when it comes down...and then provides the sudden acceleration going back up. It'll be hard at first (and hurt)...but the more you do this on a non-rebounding surface (like your knee), it'll seem WAY easier when you actually play on a timp head (with rebound).
Another way I build strength is to take biggest pair of marching snare sticks I can find---flip them over---and play on a RealFeel pad using French grip. The weight of the butt end of the stick is a good "resistance" training for your fingers.
2. what are the big differences between "classical" timpani and drum corps timpani?There really isn't any difference...except in dynamic range. On stage, indoors, behind an orchestra, you'll truly play everywhere from "ppp" to "fff." Outdoors in front of a drum corps, you should never actually play below about "mp" because anything actually softer than that would be a silent move, and you'd only be doing it in a silly attempt to convince judges that you're musical.
You'll never play any louder in front of a drum corps than you would on stage with a band/orchestra. (If you don't think you play as loud with an orchestra, then you probably have never played with a good orchestra---because many times I've played (in an orchestra) as loud as I could physically hit the drums!) You will, however, play in the "f-fff" range more often in a drum corps...which is even more reason why you need chops of steel.
3. what did you think of my playing, just for kicks? i thought i had a pretty challenging book both years...and quite honestly, if you didn't hear me, you weren't listening :) :P :) because there were some parts where i was hitting the poop out of the drumsGosh, I hate to say it...but I don't remember your playing! I saw everyone in Allentown...but of course it's hard to remember details when you see 24 corps in two days.
Here's a quick word about volume on timpani---generally, the louder you play, the more you'll bring your arms into the stroke. If I'm gonna play a note "fff" for example, I'll literally start with my mallet (or the head of the mallet) above my head! And I'll try to keep a somewhat looser grip on the mallet (but not so loose I drop it), and let the force come about 70% from my arm, and 30% from my fingers.
You've gotta remember: timpani is a VISUAL instrument---it's not just about sound, it's about the SHOW! A great timpanist GETS INTO IT!
I'll post more later!
Scott
-
Hi Los...
I think most players understand the mechanics behind French grip...but what they don't get is that to project effectively, you've got to have enormous strength in that fulcrum between your thumb and first finger. You support the fulcrum with other fingers, but you still have to have the strength in the fulcrum itself.
The only way you build this strength is by pinching. Yep, plain ol' pinching---hard! If you're doing it right, it should hurt. If it doesn't hurt, you're not building any strength there. You won't make the fulcrum any stronger just by playing without pinching.
As it happens, pinching is also how to improve articulation (e.g. staccato strokes). Note I'm not suggesting you actually pinch or squeeze tightly all the time when you're playing---I'm making a distinction between a method of increasing strength (pinching) and the overall improvement in volume/projection it results in.
Those tips on the Vic Firth site are pretty good overall...but timpani is a bit of an arcane, "voodoo" artistry. The best way to learn (if you're serious about learning) is to go to the "Jedi Timpani Masters" themselves---the folks who play timpani for full-time, professional symphony orchestras. Nobody knows more than they do, and playing timpani for orchestral music is the most demanding form of timpani there is on the planet, period.
Having said that, I think there is a lot that can be taught via the web or in a book, etc. I'll work on it!
Scott
-
A quick report on Saturday's Allentown show...
I was hoping to hear more timpani the second night, but again was disappointed. As with Friday night, I saw plenty of good technique, except everyone was lacking in power. I was impressed with the female timpanist for the Colts (don't know her name?), who came closer than many others to actually projecting.
When Crossmen came on the field, I noticed they were actually miking the timps. "Great!" I thought, "Now I'll hear them!" But no...even with individual mics on each drum, Crossmen's timps were no louder than anyone.
When Carolina Crown (I think) came on the field with two sets of timpani, I thought "Cool! Now I'll hear them!" But alas, it wasn't to be. Other than a couple solo licks, they were a silent movie.
-----
Sizzle made some good points above about drum corps timpanists simply not having access to high-quality, professional instruction. I don't mean to sound like I'm bashing the folks who play timpani for drum corps, because I'm not. As I've said, I saw lots of people playing French grip (the best grip, in my opinion) with good technique. I just didn't see evidence of chops.
It's not surprising, I guess, that people don't consider timpani as a "chops" instrument like snare...but it is! A huge amount of time as a timpanist must be dedicated to nothing other than building tremendous strength and endurance in your arms, wrists, and fingers---no different than any other battery instrument.
I think I'll work on getting a website online with tips, pointers, etc. and see if I can spend some time at camps this winter working with timpanists.
Scott
-
I don't consider myself an expert.....but did you notice the Cavalier's tympanist plays 'backwards'? The tympani are arranged (left to right) from high to low......isn't that backwards? It is to me
Arranging the drums "backwards" is (as someone pointed out) a traditional German/Austrian arrangement. I don't know where the tradition came from. Here in the U.S., former Cleveland Orchestra timpanist Cloyd Duff arranged his drums in the German style, and many of his students do as well. There is no advantage nor disadvantage to doing this---it's really more of a personal "label" to say "I play German style" or "I studied with a Cloyd Duff student."
I'll make the assumption that you like the big 2-timp solo in the Nielsen 4th symphony.Yes! I love that one...but alas, I've never performed it. :(
Anyway, I'd like to see some of them tackle, say, the Beethoven, Mahler, or Tchaikovsky symphonies (even Tchaik's Manfred).Yes, driving a full, professional orchestra requires some serious power output. I've performed several of the Mahler Symphonies, and I can definitely say that they were exhilarating...but draining!
I wonder how much the issue on the field has to do with mallet selection? I don't ever hear mallets that are all that clear from an articulation standpoint...not lighter (ie, less heavy) mallets at least.I don't think it has as much to do with mallet selection as dynamic range and power. That said, something I noticed a lot at Allentown was most timpanists switched to hard felt mallets when they wanted to play louder and/or with more articulation. This isn't necessary---in fact, it's better to go to softer mallets with larger heads when you need some serious volume...and with good technique you can articulate just fine with a medium mallet.
I just want to say as a former timpanist Div 1 finalist that there are alot of issues that lead to what you have observed. I believe the biggest one is that alot of pit instructors rely on their timpanists to self-teach whenever possible due to the multitude of tasks pit instructors face (marimbas and vibes playing together, impacts, ensemble issues, etc). Another thing is many drum corp timpanists do not receive lessons from professional timpanists. I was never able to find one close enough to where I lived.Good points Sizzle. I'm sure that's true. When I was in high school in Virginia, I had to drive 4 hours (round trip) every week to study with Fred Begun of the National Symphony---it was a sacrifice, but it got me into Juilliard! And your point would explain why I've often seen pit timpanists "self teaching."
What the activity needs are more people like you who specialize in timpani and are willing to help out. In all seriousness, e-mail some percussion caption heads and ask them if they would be interested in having you come in for a winter camp or for a day during spring training. It wouldn't hurt. I sure could've used some help back in the days.Good idea---I'll do that! I don't play professionally any more, but still enjoy teaching (and I love drum corps)...so that would be worthwhile. I'll work on it---because I'd love to see timpani in DCI be equal to what it is in professional symphonies---which with today's players, it has the potential to be!
Scott
-
Qualifications:I'm a professional timpanist and occasional drum corps fan (meaning I dip in and out of drum corps every few years, but don't have time to follow it constantly). I graduated from Juilliard, and have studied timpani with Fred Begun (National Symphony), Saul Goodman (NY Philharmonic) and Roland Kohloff (NY Philharmonic). I've performed (on timpani) with the Colorado Philharmonic, National Repertory Orchestra, Spoleto Festival Orchestra, Venezuela Symphony, and many other ensembles. (Just so nobody accuses me of not knowing what I'm talking about!)
Rant: I'm in Allentown for the DCI East shows. I saw half of the current top 12 last night, and I've got to say that I was generally disappointed in the timpanists for ALL corps. For the record, the best was Greg Tsalikis (I think that's his last name) with the Bluecoats---excellent intonation and good sound...but even he suffered from my general complaint with everyone...
NOT ENOUGH VOLUME!
Somehow---and I have no idea how---pit instructors and arrangers seem to have gotten the notion that timpani are only to be played forte (f) and no louder. This is absurd! A timpanist must have better, stronger chops than any snare, bass or quad player...but I sure didn't see any sign of that last night.
Corps after corps, I watched in dismay as timpanists were completely drowned out by the horns...or (worse) sometimes drowned out by the other pit instruments. I'm a timpanist---I can easily see how much energy a player is putting into the drums by watching the motion of their wrists, arms, and mallet height---and nobody was putting much into it.
When I played timpani in professional orchestras, performing works like Mahler's 2nd Symphony or Stravinsky's "Le Sacre," it was a workout! I'd be putting so much energy into the drums my heart rate would soar and I'd be sweating! (And yes, I was in great shape.) That's because the timpanist has to drive the entire orchestra---the timpanist has to KICK the entire orchestra, including the brass players. It's no different in drum corps.
In DCI, timpanists seem to have been castrated. I see people relaxing on stools, casually hitting the drums, and not communicating anything. Judges and instructors seem to have been brainwashed into thinking the more "dainty" and "delicate" a timpanist looks, the more "musical" they are. (Laughing my butt off at this idea...)
I think a part of this is because pit arrangers are obsessed with making timpani a melodic instrument, writing melodic scales all over the place, and (I assume) petrified not to do it because they won't get as much credit by uninformed judges who believe the timpani are a melodic instrument.
I suspect some pit instructors also believe timpani sound "bad" if they're played louder than mezzo-forte. Again, this is absurd. Timpani are not only a harmonic instrument, they are a DRUM, and they should be played like drums when the musical context demands it! Of course, if the timpanist is constantly staring at tuning gauges with both feet on the pedals, I can understand why he/she is barely able to put any energy into the performance.
Pit arrangers need to back off on the tuning changes, and instead, focus on writing timpani parts that reinforce the bottom end of the musical sound more, with an emphasis on (yes) tonic, dominant, subdominant, etc. I'm not saying some wicked tuning changes now and then are bad...just that sometimes, a timpanist needs to be able to get off the stool, stand, and LET 'EM HAVE IT!!!
Just this morning, I watched the pit of a top 6 corps warming up. Every person in the pit was on keyboards playing away, while the timpanist just sat there. I was amazed---are this guy's chops so incredibly awesome that he doesn't need to work on them??? The pit arranger/instructor should have written timpani parts to go along with every mallet exercise---even the boring 2-mallet major scales/arpeggios exercises.
I should add that my rant isn't directed personally at the timpanists in today's corps---it looked liked many of them had talent, but were simply misled by their instructors and arrangers.
I hope to see something different tonight, but don't expect to. At the very least, if drum corps timpanists aren't going to project more, then PLEASE...AMPLIFY THEM! (Not just the keyboards!)
Scott Wilkinson
-
Hi---I'm interested in all 3 if I'm not too late, and will gladly pay $50/each for them! (I sent a private message as well.)
Thanks,
Scott
swpublic@shadepine.com
SCV's show was an epic musical fail.
in DCI World Class Corps Discussions
Posted · Edited by SWriverstone
Original poster here. Look, I am truly sorry for sounding so condescending in my OP. As someone else pointed out, I was NOT attacking any person or any creative staff member individually. And yes—my OP was not tactful. I'm actually NOT a mean person.
My post admittedly came from a place of deep frustration at what—in my opinion (yes, it's an opinion)—is hearing the same kind of disjointed, jarring music coming from top corps for several years now. I was also frustrated because I keep hearing all sorts of talk about "innovation" (which is pretty wide-open term in itself), and yet from what I can see, not one corps seems to have the cojones to go out on the field and play one *fully intact* work of music (with zero cuts or edits and no park-and-blast power chords added). As others have said, my opinion is that the music has taken a backseat to the visuals—and as a musician, I hate this—and think it results in weaker shows. I know plenty don't agree–fine, don't agree.
For anyone who said I was trying to make my post about me and my degree, you clearly didn't read my OP. I don't give a flip about my degree—it's just what I got, and I only mentioned it to point out I spent a long time deeply immersed in musical study and performance. (If I'd said "I know something about music" and not mentioned my degree, it's likely someone would have asked "How is it that you think you know so much?")
I've been on web forums since the primitive beginnings in the late 80s and early 90s—and learned a long time ago the Number 1 Rule of the Web: You ALWAYS give people the benefit of the doubt. If you assume that everything you say might be misconstrued or interpreted in the worst possible way, everything you say would be useless (because it would be so butt-kissingly polite from fear of upsetting someone).
Anyway, I've listened to (and watched) SCV's show a total of 13 times now since yesterday (over 2 hours of focused listening and watching). And I guess in spite of my music degree I'm clearly deficient because it hasn't grown on me one bit. If I were listening to it in a vacuum—never having heard any other music in my life—it might be different. But in spite of everyone swooning over the ballad in the show, I can think of many, many other ballads I've heard (both from drum corps and elsewhere) that I think tower over this particular ballad from a musical perspective. I cannot evaluate any corps music in a vacuum without comparing it to every other work of music I've ever heard. If you think SCV's ballad was the most beautiful thing you've ever heard, I'm baffled. (Which is okay—it's okay to be baffled!)
I appreciate the good comments above about the drum corps audience, whether or not the activity will grow (and whether it should), and how teenagers in 10 or 20 years will like something completely different that ALL of us think is lousy, LOL. Good food for thought.
In closing, I'll say this: there's often an underlying assumption (both on the part of individuals and in society as a whole) that "evolution" always equates with "progress." In some areas it does—but this isn't always the case. Just because something is "current" or "new" or "the latest" doesn't always mean it's the "best" (however you define the words in quotes). It's entirely possible that things (particularly where subjective art is concerned) just go in circles or even regress and actually get worse over time.
With drum corps, I think the overall level of ensemble performance has absolutely progressed—but I don't think the music has gotten any "better" over the past few decades. It's been twisted and chopped and spliced to fit the insatiable needs of a hyperactive drill and choreography.
In my opinion.
Scott
PS - I'm still interested and somewhat amused that not one person in this huge thread has made a single comment about the musical merit (or lack thereof) of the examples i linked to in an earlier post (even from older SCV shows) of what I think are brilliant musical examples. It would be GREAT if someone would take any of those pieces and explain why (in your opinion, of course) what SCV performed this year was so much better?