coachsig

Does anyone know of someone whom possesses or does possess the 1 800 Video Express tapes. I am looking for specific tapes though. This company 1 800 Video Express made a certain set of tapes based on specific corps. Each tape were historical recordings of either a single corps or 2 corps. The tapes I am looking for are: Tape Set #6- Troopers and Blue Stars Tape Set 8- 27th Lancers I can be contacted directly at if you have any information about these tapes. sig0152@rochester.rr.com I would like to purchase them or make arrangements to receive a copy. Thanks Matt

Empire should go back to what got them to the top, prior to all broadway plays and concepts.... I believe the best suggestion should be: MICHAEL BUBLE- STATESMEN STYLE Coachsig

For those organizations that do not have corps jackets, just identify yourself to the Manager on duty and they will make sure you receive your 10% discount. Good Luck to all this weekend.

I would like to welcome all DCA competing corps and fans to Finals weekend in Rochester, NY in 2011. I wish all competing corps and members great success on the field, earning awards, and fun. For all those who will staying at the Hotels on West Ridge Rd during DCA weekend, Perkins Restaurant and Bakery on West Ridge Rd.; is offering all marching members an excellent opportunity. All competing corps members will receive 10% off thier final bill when selecting Perkins for thier dining pleasure. This offer is valid through DCA weekend starting Thursday, Sept 1- Monday Sept 5. This discount is only valid by wearing your corps jacket during your dining experience at Perkins. This Perkins is located in the Stoneridge Plaza at 1500 West Ridge Rd. in Greece. Just look for the BIG AMERICAN FLAG. If you are thinking of taking advantage of this offer and will be a party larger than 8, please call ahead (585) 581-8510. We will make sure you have a wonderful dining experience either for breakfast, lunch or dinner anytime. Hours of operation are from 6AM-10PM. Enjoy your stay in Rochester. Good luck to all Competing Corps and Individuals this weekend. coachsig Matt Siggelow Empire Statesmen 1991-92 DCA World Champion 1991 Restaurant Manager Perkins Restautant 1500 West Ridge Rd.

Dear Mr. Don Acheson, DCI CEO and Executive Director, I possess some very interesting Questions about this Tour of Champions idea in which DCI believes to be the new next thing in the activity of Drum Corps. My Questions are directly related to determination of who wins, not based upon the rubric scoring system, but as in placement and how that effects the following year or years. Q1? If this Tour of Champions is a grouping of 8 corps who are participating, was this group of 8 based on final placement from 2010 or based upon financail means to participate at this level? Q2? Are the remaining 14+ World Class Corps ELIGIBLE to win the DCI Title in Indianapolis or are only the 8 within this select group determining who wins the DCI 2011? Q3? Once the final placement is announced at DCI Finals 2011, will there be relegation and promotion in and out of the Tour of Champions? (if you need clarification on what I am asking, please let me know). I am not sure that questions like these have been asked. I possess a Master's Degree in Athletic Administration and I am reviewing this from and athletic/sport/competition determining if drum corps is a sport or activity. I was born into drum corps starting in 1966, teaching and marching from 85-93 with various organizations. I possess a crystal clear understanding of the history of DCI and have studied examined the placements and scoring of the history of DCI 1972. I respect that this is something new DCI wants to attempt hoping it catches on. Matt Siggelow

If the BUCCS win, it now becomes redundant and the stand still at the end of FINALS will have only BUCC members watching. I can understand being domininat, but this is not the UCLA Bruins of the John Wooden ERA, even they lost after some time. I have a better idea...If this FINALS is this close, then WHAT IF THE BUCCS, EMPIRE and MB could randomly draw thier appearance position 6 times? You would probably see 6 different scores and all 3 of them winning at least 2 times. I guess slotting and pre-determined appearenace position has a direct relationship with the final subjectivity of the score determined by the judges. My theory, have MB win, change the whole direction of DCA and more excitement. I personally would love to see EMPIRE win, being an alumni, that has some influence. However, if MB were to win, that would create talk, interesting dicsussion for future DCA events and a new champion. Again, I keep saying, there is no parity, its all about slotting and that will never change. Year in and Year out there are 3 or 4 contenders that deserve to win the championship. Maybe one day both DCA and DCI will look at competition and thier subjective scoring system differently. CoachSig Empire Statesmen 91-92 Northmen/Staff 87-89 Spectrum Staff 92-93

I guess you dont look at this as analytical as I do. DCI wants to draw a larger fan base, some consider this a sport and its always predictable. I know there are dynasties but come on. The BAD DEVILS are not perfect after watching last night show on the fan network. It was boring and not top 5 material. Is always park blow, play the same thing over and over, little flash, judges get a woody and give them perfect scores or close to it. You will see Crown and Bluecoats drop from TOP 5 in the next 2 years, SCV has to get back in and so does Phantom.OH and dont foregt Madison might sneek in one more time and maybe they might let the Blue Stars in. If you havent noticed every organization of the current and past DCI corps have taken their tumble in placements, even as far as out of the Top 12. For some reason, Devils havent left since 1975 of the top 5. The shows are not always that great, they arent that perfect and yes they make mistakes. Its all about that good ole boys network and the direct relationship to the judges. Cant score the Devils down to far or feelings might get hurt, or they threaten to not be a member. Like i keep saying, if they want to increase thier audience and attendance, people who like contest, sports and athletics enjoy the not knowing and the possibility of upset. With this activity its always predictable from the first set of scores in June.

Thanks DCI..... however, by showing us that snippet of scores live doesnt pull anyone back in. Attendance is down, no marketablity and no placement changes. here is my prediction for next years TOP 5 in Order: BLue Devils, Cavies, Cadets, Crown or Bluecoats, Phantom. SVC in 6th, either Crown or Coats take a tumble. You cant draw fans or increase your viewer base and attendance if we already know how is going to win, when the 1st set if scores are released after the first shows in JUNE. No placement changes, no parity, no upsets. To draw fans you must have something exciting and different. I hope DCI is around in the future and the G7 topic is tabled off.......

Why clap for someone when everyone knows who wins the majority of the time. Same BLUE stuff year in year out. Judges like it, they win. Oh, maybe thats why fan attendance is down in this activity. Why go when you know JUNE 15th or the first scores are placed to the general public who is leading. Thus no parity.

I guess this whole G7 topic is a HOT TOPIC. From my viewpoint this G7 way of thinking is not educationally thought out properly. They are only looking at it from thier perspective and not the whole organizational perspective. G7 will ruin the activity of drum corps and who is not to say oif the G7 cam to fruition with the ideas of Mr. Hopkins that it would not fail. We as a drum corps community, are a very strong network of family members. With the majority of us BORN into the activity, enjoying it for what is possesses different from marching band. Not saying marching band is terrible, but drum corps has a mystic and special place in our lives. I guess if I were to add my 2-cents worth to this topic this is what I would have to say. The drum corps activity is struggling due to not enough in attendance, financial revenue and parity. How about these changes implemented into DCI: 1. Since a large percentage of the drum corps population knows who is going to win, why not add parity to the activity. Thus, meaning EVERY ORGANIZATION has a legitamate chance of winning or making finals. Why do you think sports and athletics are enjoyable to watch. We all know who might win, but there is always that chance for UPSET. There is no upset factor or change factor in this activity, somehting drum corps does need. By adding parity and a chance for other than the 6 organizatiuons that now win the DCI Championship, you might just see an increase in audience attendance and financial revennue to each organization and DCI. 2. Change the scoring system, the rubric and the judges perception of what happened the previous night before. If 100 is the highest score to receive, that means your PERFECT in ALL aspects of the activity. No one is that perfect in ALL aspects of the activity. Even with the Blue Devils scoring a 97.9 last night they are not that perfect. Has anyone ever done a study on the history of placement/organizations and scroes? Has anyone ever looked at the still photos of all corps, pictures dont lie. I think we need to go back to adding a tick system that will deduct .1 off the score. Drop flag, drop stick, caught out of step, horn angle or spacing of the drill, these are all things the common audience attendee notices but some how scores increase. I believe that an individual could sit in the stands at the 50 yrd line and evaluate the corps based upon what they see, what they caught with thier eyes and not speak into a cassette. Thus, not having to draw your attention away to say something, just a slash markl. Add them up, and deduct. I understand the build up theory, but come on. 3. If the thought of breaking away from a group concept wants to fly, then why not think of the whole organization as different leagues or sub divisions within the league. If these 7 want to form the so called super group within the DCI rules and organization, then why not make break the World Class corps into 3 groups. Top 8, Middle 8, Bottom 7 (Not call them that). With this style confernece or divisions you can have more than 1 WINNER, everybody wants to be a Winner or viewed as better... right. Then why not adopt the English Premier League Soccer school of thought, the corps that finishes 8th in the top and middle divisions moves down, then the top corps in the middle 8 and bottom 7 move up. All while you maintain the existence of the TOP 12 theory. If the top OPEN class corps wanst to move up then they would be inserted into the bottom 7 division. This would create competition within the competition and increase your viewership and attendance. That has a direct relationship to money and happiness for all. The deontological way of thinking. Yes changes need to be made, but the G7 route and inplementation of woodwinds, tombones and more electical instrumentation will destroy the activity.

I am glad I started something with this topic. I think some of the comments are right and some of them are just way off the topic. I think my point is that even in any team or individual event/sport there are always those who dominate and win in consecutive season ie. UCLA Bruins in the late 60's and 70's and the Edmonton Oilers (NHL) in the mid 80's with 4 Stanley Cups, Thus creating dynasties. Since then, there has not been a true dynasty in winning championships at all levels of sports as I clearly stated in an earlier post. Those dyanasty days are probably long gone, just becuase of parity and those working hard to knock of the champions previous. I think with college athletics especially with basketball, there are those strong programs that always make it to the tournament, but dont we all find ourselves rooting for the Gonzaga's, Northern Iowa's, Princeton's and so on. Its not always a given that Duke, North Carolina and other Basketball dynasties make the tournament, sometimes they don't make the tournament. Even they miss the Big Dance once in a while and/or not always win it or not make it to the Final Four or the Elite 8. As for College Football and the BCS, even that is a mess and somehow a good comparison with drum corps. Dont get me going on the BCS. If we were to correlate all of that and what has been said on this topic with lets say the Blue Devils. Its seems they have been on such a LONG run since 1975. Yes there are certain factors that are different in sports and drum corps that just cannot be compared or asscociated the same way, but there are some organization comparisons. Fact. Since the inception of DCI in 1972, every other organization has moved up and down the ladder of placement. Even have been displaced out of the Top 12 and had to somehow prove thier worth to DCI or the Judges that they are a viable product. The Blue Devils since 1974 placed 24th, 1975:9th, 1976:3rd and since 1976 have never finished less than 5th, but then miraculously somehow finds a way to always finish in the Top 3 that next year or wait Wins again. Coincidence, experience, hard work, execution, what is it exactly? It just seems very slighted to me and I am not surprised anyone else has thought of this aspect. I guess the only way to find out if the judges are true with thier scoring ability, evaluative assessments and knowledge, we would have to do a BLIND STUDY on the first show of the year. That means, no uniforms, no annoucnement of who the corps are, no announcement of drum major names, no corps logos anywhere(even on equipment trucks and busses), no receognizable corps warm ups on the field, no corps souviners, invite all 23 World class corps to a show site, random selection of whom performs, and random selction of order of appearance. The only way for this BLIND STUDY to be successful is for ALL factors and variables to be controlled. This way judging will support a better assessment and closer to at least fair. I truly believe that judges do have the ability to score in a significant way based upon order of appearance, recognition of uniform and recognition of name of corps, thus leading to a pre-conceived assessment of thier abilities based upon history, tradition and somehow direct relationship to that corps association. Judges have the ability to use the wonderful world of the web to review re-cap sheets from prior contest to see how another judge scored those corps in those captions. Thus, leading the judge to a pre-conceived score or starting point and not really scoring based upon what they see at that exact instant on that exact night and time. Every show is not played the same or viewed the same, changes are made, mistakes are made, but the scores seem to go up from 1 to 2 points a night, even each captions seems to increase but never decrease. Maybe there should be a study on scoring over the course of the year for drum corps, who the judges are and track the scoring from judge to judge. What a great idea? I guess with sports on any given day, any given time, any given place, anyone can beat anyone. But is seems to me drum corps is different and cannot be compared to that statement, thus drum corps is not a sport but an activity.

The juges topic and number of champions, but many of you think or believe that the drum corp activity is considered a sport. In theory all of who have been part of, marched, taught or are just now a fan; know that this is all skewed in so many ways. As for the judges and showing favortism, we all know that asnwer. Every judge fromm my point of view possesses one type of the Consequentialist Moral Theroy. JUdges, frrom the Hedonistic point of view, they do whatever brings them the greatest amount of happiness. From the Utilitarianistic point of view, which states doing what would bring the greatest amount of happiness to the greatest amount of people, this the judges do not possess. For example, Blue Devils(DCI) and Buccaneers (DCA); we all know that the Blue Devils are more than likely going to win DCI the majority of the time. If Vegas could put odds on the Blue Devils they would probably be rated as even money. The judges always reward them for anything and everything, no matter what. As for the Buccaneers in DCA, if and when they win this year it will be 6 years in a row. Thus, by doing that; you are now starting to loose your audience in attending your shows. This then would have a direct realtionship to the financial aspects of this activity which is highly skewed in favor of certain organizations. By watching the same organization win year in and year out, you start to lose the viability of the product to your audience. They all know who is more than lilkely going to win before the season starts. If we were to relate the drum corps activity to sports and winning championships, then drum corps will never be classified as a sport becuase there is NO parity, change or the desire to allow another organization to win the championship is not allowed. If we were to correlate championships won in the world of sports within the professional levels and compare that to drum corps this is what the results would indicate: Number of organizational Champions since 1972 DCI (Kingsman, SCV, Madison, Blue Devils, Cadets, Star of Indiana, Phantom, Cavaliers) 8 compared to 1000's of organizations who try thats about 1%. Statistically very low percentage versus the obvious of who we know who is going to win. DCA (Cabs, Buccs, Sunrisers, Skyliners, Hurrcs, Brigs, Empire, Bushwackers, Westshoreman) 9 compared to not as many DCI organizations who compete. The percentage of Champions to number organizations is probably higher than the 1% at DCI. NFL (Dallas, Miami, Pittsburgh, Oakland, San Fran, Washington, Chicago, NY Giants, Denver, St Louis Rams, Baltimore Ravens, New England, Tampa Bay, Indianapolis, New Orleans and Green Bay) 16 out of 32 organizations, thats 50% of the orgainations who have won a championship and some have folded or moved to other parts of the country. NBA (LA Lakers, NY Knicks, Boston, Golden State, Portland, Seattle, Washington, Philadelphia, Detroit, Chicago, Houston, San Antonio and Miami) 13 out of 34 organizations with some defunct. NHL (Boston, Montreal, Philadelphia, New York Islanders, Edmonton, Calgary, Pittburgh, New York Rangers, New Jersey Devils, Colorado, Detroit, Dallas, Tampa Bay, Carolina, Anaheim and Chicago) 16 out of 32, At least 50%. MLB (Oakland, Cincinnati, New York Yankees, New York Mets, Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, Los Angelas Dodgers, St. Louis, Baltimore, Detroit, Kansas City, Minnesota, Toronto, Atlanta, Arizona, Los Angelas Angels, Florida, Boston and Chicago White Sox) 19 out of 34 more than 50%. Even sports at the professional level possesses more parity than drum corps. Even organizations with the lowest payroll has one championships. It Seems with drum corps those with money and numbers win the championships. Thus no partity or chance for any other organization to win a DCI/DCA title. Thus subjectivity is controlled by the judges and skewed. Even in sports teams have a bad day, dont play well or evenget out played by thier competition. In drum corps, it seems that nothing changes they only want certain organizations to win. Thus planning to lose the audience membership, becuase there is no change in the standings and we always know who is going to win. In sports or athletics, at any given day, any given time any one can beat anyone by capitolizing on thier mistakes and miscues. That's why I only go to watch the shows now, scores dont matter when we know who is going to win the title. I think, I am probably speaking for a certain percenatge of the drum corps community, its time to see a change in who wins, not preditcability. Disclamer: I am not trying to take anything away from the performers and their hard work and dedication on the field and what it takes, I have been there. I am always appreciative of thier efforts and abilities on and off the field.

Does anyone know where the rehearsal sites are for the DCA corps????? My father, Ron Miller, is up from TEXAS for DCA weekend, marched senior corps in the 70's and wanted to find some of the people he used to march with? Anyone with rehearsal information would be greatly appreciated. I will ckeck back to this posting 3x a day. Thanks coachsig Empire Statesman 91' Northmen 86'-89' Spectrum Staff 91'-93

For all of us drum corps enthusiests, I thought I would pose this question for all to use critical thinking skills to answer. Please explain your answer and thought process. The question is: WHICH IS MOST LIKELY TO HAPPEN FIRST? 1. Blue Devils Finish in 7th place or lower? 2. Someone NEW winning the DCI Title and whom? (those omitted Cavies, Kingsmen, Scouts, Cadets, Blue Devils, SCV, Phantom Regiment and Star of Indiana) My best thoughts are Blue Devils will never, ever finish below 7th place. They could have a TRAIN WRECK on the field and all of the judges would think its part of the show. Rewarding them for a new innovative drill/music move or better yet it was a mistake still reward them and no one would notice. So my theory would be number 2, someone new winning the DCI title. Either Carolina Crown or Bluecoats have the best chance from an organziational standpoint and possess the best relationship with DCI and the judges, but that can change. I look forward to reading what others say, including judges, DCI Staff and Corps Directors.......I guess we will have to see how this question plays out in the future. CoachSig

I do not think there is a difference between a direct competitive activity and an indirect judged activity. In competition, may it be drum corps or an athletic events, judges or referees are held to some repsonsibility to judge or referee the competition the way they view it within the peramiters of the rubric or rules. I believe in both drum corps and athletics, there is always that interpretation of the rule or judging rubric. The best way I can explain is, the judge in the caption gives corp A a 9.9 out of 10.0 in his caption, but does notice there were some minor issues in what we saw. The same judge then observes corp B and obserevs and assesses the same minor issues in corp B that he did corp A. However, he scores corp B a 9.8 out of 10.0. Should the judge have given the same score to both, but in the judges mind he likes corp A over corp B. Thus, his evaluation and assesment make the argument. I think the judges or referees discretion is their own. They are entitled to that opinion and observation of assesment. However in athletics, we as coaches observe the referees and coach the game in the way we know the referee calls the game. In some instances, we as coaches are allowed to blackball certain referees from calling our games if we can fully assess and evaluate his performance as one sided. Making calls one way but not the other way when both athletes are doing the same exact thing, that creates the foul or violation. As in athletics, a turnover or interception changes the game and outcome of the activity. A drop banner or equipment, caught out of step, dropped drum stick, spacing in drill or late attacks and releases do not warrant a high score. Those to are just like turnovers and interceptions and should change the assesment of the score. I hope I made my example easy to understand.